Instant Research Option

Skwor · July 2015

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"I also think that putting stuff behind a time wall for the sole purpose of making it more difficult to obtain is plain stupid."

{...}

The crafting aspect of this game is not difficult, it requires almost no actual skill.
My idea didn't make anything easier, it just slightly lowered the amount of patience required for those that:
Played every day

Were dedicated to learning their traits

In real life, you learn things faster if you put extra effort into learning them. I don't see why this game can't be any different.

As a professional educator I strongly disagree with the bolded part. No such thing is true. The extra effort you put into something may make you more proficient, may finally bring you to an understanding of what it is you were trying to learn BUT it does not make it faster.

As someone who is currently in College, I can tell you this.

My friends and I did all the work that was asked of us when we were asked to do it.

There was a group of troublemakers also in the group that did literally none of the work that was given to them.

Who do you think learned the material faster?

That is a difference between those who goofed off and those who did the work. Not a difference between how long it took you to learn something because you worked harder as opposed to if you did not work harder.

Goofing off is not making an honest attempt and can hardly be considered as analogous to work in your example.

Having taught, Physics, Nuclear Science, various Math's and various Electrical Sciences my experience shows with an average a person it will take a specific amount of time to learn regardless of effort, effort is typically what determines how well a person learns the material. I do not recall seeing effort speed up the learning process as you are alluding to.

I have noted in personal experiences that time to learn is more about what a person brings to the table with innate cognitive abilities and not a motivation to work harder as you indicate.

elixir · July 2015

I still haven't figured out why the research times are so long (other than slowing down the leveling) but what really confuses me is why they're in real time when the the days are not. In game, the sun is up for 4 of our hours then night for another 4. But a 1 day research time is 24 of our hours instead of the 8 in game hours in a day.

Skwor · July 2015

elixir wrote: »

I still haven't figured out why the research times are so long (other than slowing down the leveling) but what really confuses me is why they're in real time when the the days are not. In game, the sun is up for 4 of our hours then night for another 4. But a 1 day research time is 24 of our hours instead of the 8 in game hours in a day.

I have to admit this is a good argument for reducing the timers in my opinion. Though I do not wish to see them reduced.

Elhanan · July 2015

Drake_Fury wrote: »

I can already imagine the PC side, every crafter must aleready have 9/9 traits on every piece of gear by now. To me, that means the company should put 5-6 more different traits to create more diversity. Currently it's not an issue yet on console, but when everyone can make everything, nobody buys anything.

Thank you for saying this! This is why is research as it currently stands should never change. ESO actually has a crafting system when armor/weapons are actually being crafted for other players. This relies on the time intense nature of research. You can access crafting for most sets of armor with only 6 traits. 8 of the 9 traits for research are easy to come by and the time required to become 6-trait crafter is absolutely reasonable.

Zenimax, thank you for making a system that functions well for all players, especially those that want to specialize in becoming a master crafter.

Lnin0 · July 2015

I would gladly pay 50-100 crowns for a temporary "god" buff making me invincible in PVP....make it happen! Or how about a deal for 500 crowns and ZOS hands my account over to some off shore laborer who plays the game for me and then emails me a report on how it is...that would really save me some time.

ADarklore · July 2015

helediron wrote: »

I think you are unnecessarily limiting your use of alts. Having a veteran main makes crafting alt creation much easier. Feed your medium armor loot from main to the alt for research and deconstruct. After you have maxed your crafting on main, you can feed all your loot to the alts. It is a good practise to divide trait research of clothing and blacksmithing to two alts. You can also think an alt as a storage mule of traits. If the alt researches medium, it can later craft trait items for the main, after it has finished light armor researches.

You can also take a break in clothing research on main and quickly research few required traits on medium like infused/divines. After a week you can return back to clothing research. Hunding's rage is a problem though.

Right now my level 24 is my crafter, and he is 45+ in Clothing, Blacksmithing, and Woodworking. I don't need to reach those high level crafting stations because I get the crafting sets that I need already, the highest being stations for Magnus and Eyevea, which I can access already with my crafter at level 24.

So what purpose does it have to spread out crafting with multiple alts when you can have one that does all that you need? The problem with having multiple alts doing crafting is that, if you need to delete characters to make new ones, you're stuck because some of those alts are your crafters. Right now I also have four inventory mules because of needing space for all my crafted sets. Which means I have three characters I am actively leveling, one that is my crafter, and four that are inventory mules- so all of my eight character slots are already used up. However, with this arrangement, if I later decide to consolidate my mules, I can freely delete them because they aren't tied to any crafts.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

The point is you are trying to force something into game that is absolutely not needed.

Everyone respect timers on researching traits. There is no need to change them.

1st rule of developement:

If it aint broken, dont fix it.

Also if just the time wall is enough to limit access to all traits for only those who are really dedicated then there is no need for more fireworks. Ockham's razor, the most simple solution is the best one.

Iluvrien · July 2015

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

That's not what I'm objecting to. I'm objecting to the fact that once you have an item with a trait that you have not yet researched, time is literally the only thing stopping you from having that trait. I just think that if they're going to make it difficult to get, they should be more creative than that.

And to a degree I actually agree with you. If you look at this thread you will actually see me arguing a similar position to you over a year ago.

Similar, but not the same. I didn't like research timers then and now not because they require a lot of time, I have always been fine with the amount of time they take, but because they require no input.

Yes, make the approach to researching items more interesting, make it involved, make it require actual play time and/or other components rather than just logging in long enough to click "research" and then log off again... but don't make it shorter.

Zsymon · July 2015

Placing powerful and useful mechanics behind a time wall is a very common practice in many MMOs, and it works because it stops the market from getting flooded, and it stops powerful content from becoming trivial.

Remag_Div · July 2015

This is why I hate the Crown store.

Whenever something takes just a little time people will just look for the shortcut and whine to the Devs to put up Crown store items to make it instantaneous.

helediron · July 2015

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

NO NO NO NO

Do not make crafting "Pay 2 Have" and do not reduce the timers.

For the eights sake people just play the game and have patience. There is nothing wrong with research, so it ACTUALLY takes some time and effort to remember to do the research. That is a good thing for those who have done it, it actually means something to and those with and without it.

Obviously people want the research skills it look at all the requests to make it easy and quick to achieve, people wanting it is no reason to shorten it, just suck it up and do it!

I "want" something is a very poor reason to just give it away. All that ends up doing is appeasing the group of lazy, unmotivated masses who typically do not appreciate what they get and will just ask for more in their unsatiated need to have what others have and what they often are unwilling to earn.

I would agree with you...except the current method for researching requires little to no "effort", only time.

I also think that putting stuff behind a time wall for the sole purpose of making it more difficult to obtain is plain stupid.

I get that people think that there should be a way to differentiate the master crafters from the mediocre ones, but a time wall isn't the way to do it.

I'm not against the timer as a whole, but the time it currently takes to research all traits (over a year) is way too long. I think that if they're going to put the timer in, there should be a way to shorten it for those who are willing to put more effort in than is already required.

That said, any option that requires crowns is a stupid idea for obvious reasons. Someone's skill in crafting shouldn't be determined by how much real money they have, but how much time they commit to their profession in the game.

The multiple alts method significantly shortens the research time for you. I think that is the have-effort way. With only one character the long research time comes from blacksmithing and clothier. Move weapon and medium armor traits to an alt and you have halved the research time. By adding more alts you can speed it even more but it is only practical with grinding. It will be a big effort and crafting full sets mean you need to relog occasionally. Later on you can collect all the traits to one main crafter.

helediron · July 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I think you are unnecessarily limiting your use of alts. Having a veteran main makes crafting alt creation much easier. Feed your medium armor loot from main to the alt for research and deconstruct. After you have maxed your crafting on main, you can feed all your loot to the alts. It is a good practise to divide trait research of clothing and blacksmithing to two alts. You can also think an alt as a storage mule of traits. If the alt researches medium, it can later craft trait items for the main, after it has finished light armor researches.

You can also take a break in clothing research on main and quickly research few required traits on medium like infused/divines. After a week you can return back to clothing research. Hunding's rage is a problem though.

Right now my level 24 is my crafter, and he is 45+ in Clothing, Blacksmithing, and Woodworking. I don't need to reach those high level crafting stations because I get the crafting sets that I need already, the highest being stations for Magnus and Eyevea, which I can access already with my crafter at level 24.

So what purpose does it have to spread out crafting with multiple alts when you can have one that does all that you need? The problem with having multiple alts doing crafting is that, if you need to delete characters to make new ones, you're stuck because some of those alts are your crafters. Right now I also have four inventory mules because of needing space for all my crafted sets. Which means I have three characters I am actively leveling, one that is my crafter, and four that are inventory mules- so all of my eight character slots are already used up. However, with this arrangement, if I later decide to consolidate my mules, I can freely delete them because they aren't tied to any crafts.

Then i think you have advanced wisely. I guess you did some planning and you have learned the traits you need and kept your main crafter practical and useful. The benefit of alts come if you need to craft for others and if you are aiming to nine traitsa nd to all professions. Dividing traits to alts cuts at least half year from researching everything. If you craft only for yourself, keep it lightweight. If you are crafting for a guild like i do, go heavy duty with multiple crafting alts.

I know inventory management is hell, just look at my signature, i have two mule accounts. But when i had only one account, i did use mules for research and i leveled them to twentysome. Then they can handle one profession after respeccing every skillpoint to crafting. They can still continue as mules. It's not a big waste if you decide to delete them. I deleted few. Now i have six characters at veteran level and they have all professions. One is to-be-deleted failure. One mule is level 8 with 170 inventory space and i just can't delete it

. And then 16 slots of mules in those two accounts with 90 slots in inventory. And yes, i do get lost where stuff is.

Check out also this older thread about same issues.

Averya_Teira · July 2015

BigBoi314 wrote: »

These research times are ridiculous; days on days just to research one trait. I'd be willing to spend 5 (maybe 10) of my extra Crowns on each trait if it meant to instantly research it. ZOS, can you guys make that happen?

First.... No... Maybe you didn't notice, but the timers increase the more traits you know. It's so you actually feel good when you get all traits on all pieces, something you achieved. Getting crafting to max should be an achievement, not something you just throw money at and it's done...

Second, FIVE crowns to bypass 5-15 days worth of research lol ? No less than 1500 crowns if ZOS make the horrible decision of actually implementing this... Otherwise, what's the point of even having research timers, 5 crowns is about 5 cents or less... I'll just spend $10 and research EVERY traits for EVERY piece of gear of EVERY type in 3 minutes...

King Bozo · July 2015

No. Should they do this then let me buy my v16 toon.

BigBoi314 · July 2015

King Bozo wrote: »

No. Should they do this then let me buy my v16 toon.

Technically you have to since you have to buy the DLC to access it. Haha