20k plus damage shield spam...

byrom101b16_ESO · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I have a good solution to shield spam, actually the same that is applied to cloak, the other permanently complained about ability:

Make the shield disappear upon initiating an offensive ability. Do this only for ward. Thus, the sorcerer has his defense ability, can stack as much as he wants in order to survive and/or flee but loses this as soon as he attacks. Same as nightblades have to deal with

Haha, I take it you dont play a sorc?
How do you plan on surviving more than 5 seconds in light armor (=no mitigation) and no shields?

Cloak makes you invisible so your mitigation is effectively 100% until you're found. Also you can attack with a surprise burst or escape from the fight/use line of sight.

Shields dont make you invisible so you take full hits without any mitigation from unlimited number of players.

Please think before making such ridiculous suggestions.

Sorcerer CLASS heal?

Hahahahahaha...

Joy_Division · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

THANK YOU! Finally someone understands this. Healing Ward is our only heal. No Breath of Life, no Sap, no Coagulating Blood. We have that, and we have shields. If you nerf shields, then the Sorcerer class dies, quite literally. It's not as if you can't get past the shields. 3 good players, or even 2 really really good players can get past them. Even 1 can do it, they'll just have to burst more.

You guys are ignorant, no one said to take away your shields.

To have an ability, of not being able to take damage form a group of 5 plus members while you are casting offensive spells is just over powered. Why is something so simple , hard for you to understand?

SHIELDS in ES were WARDS... you have to cast and hold shield up, while you run out of magica which does not last forever.

If you are defending Sorc that there shields are not OP and are fine the way they are... then your common sense in life is "0"

You want your shields?

Give other classes and championship ability to be able to spec in penetrating shields, then keep your OP shields as long as we have "Chance" to penetrate some damage.

Says the NB sniper.

Wards in Skyrim sucked. Magic sucked too. No wonder why you tout the mechanics in that game.

Give sorcs a chance so their frags, crushing shocks, heavy attacks, etc have a chance to penetrate your cloak and dodge roll and you can have your penetrating shield spec.

Sav72 · July 2015

You are basing NB cloak to a sorc shields?

I am cloaked and get hit with magic, heavy light attacks all the time. and my favorite is the sorc bolt stun.

Sir or Madam you crack me up

Please try again,,,

Lucky28 · July 2015

I see no reason why Sorcs' hardened wards need to be nurfed. I use Hardened ward and get killed same as anyone else and just as frequently and kill other ward users same as anyone else.

Hell, when my character was Vet 5 he could get though a V14's hardened ward pretty reliably. and i am a Nord Sorc, if i can do that while playing as a race that has no benefits to my class i really see no reason as to why anyone would be complaining about it, it just doesn't register as a legitimate complaint.

EDIT: that's my only vet character by the way. So, i'm not sitting on a wealth of CP.

Zlater · July 2015

Sorcerers are the defiance class, when there was DK god mode we had negate :P and now that we have Nb's that can kill you before you finish your dismount animation, we have skills like defensive rune and Hardened ward to counter it. There is no reason for a Nb to complain, Nb's have the best escape tools (invis and ranged shade), the best burst Dps in PvP and a nice chunk of armor with medium armor. If you want to kill a sorc, just cc them. Magnum shot / gap close spam is generic and doable against a sorc. This is a L2P thing, you just need to learn how to counter. > there is always a way < you can't just burst everything in a flash, some things you have to do slowly and out sustain. This is one of those.

Dracane · July 2015

It's enough now. If you're one of these one handed and shield tanks, please don't expect to burst people down.
If you decide for sword and shield, then you decide for being tanky and not for damage. If you use sword and shield and still do high damage, then something is broken about this game. And it is, look at these perma blockng high burst damage sword and shield Nightblades.

It is so damn easy to get through shields. A shield spamming Sorcerer deals no damage. He has to stack shields and cannot attack during that. Of course, if you're a tank and your attacks hit like a wet noodle, don't QQ, of course he has enough time to deal some damage after the shield stack. Go to PvE if you want to tank or at least stay in a group for pvp, as you can barely solo anyone.

I know for a reason, that (only 1 example) dual wield Dragonknights can destroy 30k+ shields in around 2 seconds. So I can't do anything but spamming shields. Which drains a lot Magicka and I might have the time to use one daedric curse here and there, but not more.

If you cry about shields, then increase your damage or use physical damage, as Sorcerers can't use Harness Magicka to avoid physical damage.

Radburn · July 2015

Wing wrote: »

im sure your specifically talking about sorc, but Templar and DK can achieve some pretty crazy shield numbers if they invest in health. for instance, DK shield, healing ward, and bone shield give 100% of your hp in shield when combined (before CP bonuses etc.)

with the gutting of legit heavy armor sword and board tanking coming up a lot of us are trying to come up with better means of tanking, and bubble tanking looks promising as well as flat damage reduction tanking through things like mist form and cyrodil set (this will be more viable in PvE come vamp fire reduction) and the effectiveness of mist form tanking can actually be seen in PvP right now to much rage lol.

sad because I like sword and board

I have tested a 44K health Templar in PvP and managed to get my Blazing shield to 13.5k at the cost of every other stat ( no regen, no magicka, no stamina)

Want to know how that went? Terrible. In a rare case where I found a 1 vs 1 fight my best outcome was to annoy the other person until they gave up. Against a shield stacking sorc who is nearly invulnerable, I would always lose. Why? Because their shield is based off magicka making it absorb more AND they have killing power.

Do not try and sell Templars as having crazy shield potential. It is not possible until they change Sun shield so the absorb amount is based off highest stat, rather than health which we all know is useless in PVP right now.

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

Thanks for the laugh. I guess there was a patch last night that ninja removed healing ward.

Flaminir · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

THANK YOU! Finally someone understands this. Healing Ward is our only heal. No Breath of Life, no Sap, no Coagulating Blood. We have that, and we have shields. If you nerf shields, then the Sorcerer class dies, quite literally. It's not as if you can't get past the shields. 3 good players, or even 2 really really good players can get past them. Even 1 can do it, they'll just have to burst more.

To have an ability, of not being able to take damage form a group of 5 plus members while you are casting offensive spells is just over powered. Why is something so simple , hard for you to understand?

If you are defending Sorc that there shields are not OP and are fine the way they are... then your common sense in life is "0"

.

You proved my point there about people QQ'ing about sorc shields without understanding / having played them.

1. The only extra ward we have is hardened ward.... Now I have 35k Magicka, & quite a few points in Bastion... my ward is around 15k in PvE areas. "Taking damage from 5 plus members while dealing damage"!?!?!? Only if they are attacking me with sweetrolls.... that 15k shield is down in 2 or 3 hits from one person....

Thanks for evaluating my common sense in my whole life, very insightful of you.

But I really would suggest that a single skill which allows me to take 2 or 3 hits extra than any other class is a reasonable balance to not having a class heal & having to wear light armor with virtually no damage mitigation.

If people want the ward nerfed then they need to up the damage mitigation of light armor & give us a heal.

P.S. Just incase you are referring to a couple of sorcs out there who are abusing a certain vamp bug to get crazy mitigation so they CAN have 5 people beat on them.... that's not the Sorc class... just a couple of exploiters & has no bearing on the general debate.

theforgottenking1779 · July 2015

I'm sorry but how the hell am i suppose to know how much damage a shield reflects cause on console it doesn't show dmg amounts or nothing that is all

Flaminir · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

You are basing NB cloak to a sorc shields?

I am cloaked and get hit with magic, heavy light attacks all the time. and my favorite is the sorc bolt stun.

Sir or Madam you crack me up

Please try again,,,

@Sav72 That is a known feature...

ZoS announced a week or two ago that they have changed this in the upcoming patch so that no single targets will penetrate your cloak.

So a cloak will now be akin to an infinite shield against all single target spells.

Please try again....

Flaminir · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

Thanks for the laugh. I guess there was a patch last night that ninja removed healing ward.

All classes have access to that... feel free to use it.

I will then use the counters for any shield stacker and take you on that way

Also healing ward is great... but you've got to have taken a lot of damage first.... and it only lasts a few seconds. It's hardly what I would call an 'I win' button.

What I find funny is how people don't compare this to other classes survivability mechanics....

Why is nobody calling for a nerf to Breath of Life? This lets the Templar heal 15k+ damage in 1 button....
DK scales...... all incoming projectiles.... 4 incoming frags,,, that's negating 40-60k damage.
Cloak (In new patch).... .instant immunity to an infinite number of all single target spells.

When will people realise a Sorc shield is not OP... its just different to the other classes. We all have a way to survive, and all of them could be considered very OP in their own way.... it's just different mechanics... learn to counter them!

Lucky28 · July 2015

@Flaminir

That is very true actually. All of my hard hitting spells are Projectiles even some of my most used ultimate's (overload/shooting star) all Projectiles and all reflected by scales. Gave me many headaches and i actually had to get some skills on my bar so that i could still do damage to DK's while their Scales where on the also employ timing and strategy.

So it's not just simple button mashing..... what's wrong with that?.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

Thanks for the laugh. I guess there was a patch last night that ninja removed healing ward.

While healing ward is in fact good all classes can use it (as mentioned) and it's not 100% reliable you can't direct it so when you use it, you can't be sure it's gonna pop on you or someone else (unless 1v1) Typically, i don't often use healing ward as a main ward in PvP. It's the only heal on my resto bar and i always pop it when i res someone to give them time to recover.

Zsymon · July 2015

Sorcerer is not the problem, there is nothing overpowered about Hardened Ward, the problem is that they stack it with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. If you remove shield stacking, so only one damage shield can be active at a time, you solve the problem without having to resort to nerfing vital class skills.

Flaminir · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Sorcerer is not the problem, there is nothing overpowered about Hardened Ward, the problem is that they stack it with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. If you remove shield stacking, so only one damage shield can be active at a time, you solve the problem without having to resort to nerfing vital class skills.

But because all classes have access to a big shield in LA tree.... :

DK: Shield, scales, GDB heal.
Templar: Shield, BoL, lots of other heals
NB: Shield, Siphoning, cloak
Sorc:....... 1 shield.

Remove shield stacking and it really doesn't have that a big an effect on most classes... they have multiple ways to survive. Sorcs are getting a significant nerf with the bolt escape changes already... they will struggle to use this to escape.

They need to be able to stack a couple of shields as its basically their bread & butter now to stay alive.

Dharkarai49 · July 2015

I hope you realise that shields are pretty much our only defense -_-... im V14 and i get clapped so easily by nightblades spamming snipe or the expert hunter lol. DKs have reflect which reflect prety much 90% of my spells, NIghtblades can invis, using detect pots help alot. Every class has it's own OPness.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I have a good solution to shield spam, actually the same that is applied to cloak, the other permanently complained about ability:

Make the shield disappear upon initiating an offensive ability. Do this only for ward. Thus, the sorcerer has his defense ability, can stack as much as he wants in order to survive and/or flee but loses this as soon as he attacks. Same as nightblades have to deal with

Haha, I take it you dont play a sorc?
How do you plan on surviving more than 5 seconds in light armor (=no mitigation) and no shields?

Cloak makes you invisible so your mitigation is effectively 100% until you're found. Also you can attack with a surprise burst or escape from the fight/use line of sight.

Shields dont make you invisible so you take full hits without any mitigation from unlimited number of players.

Please think before making such ridiculous suggestions.

My current main is a sorc, I recently switched from a nightblade. But I can see you don't play a nightblade in PvP, mate.

Wow, then I really dont understand your suggestion.
Ive played my magicka NB in BWB, its a lot of fun actually. The non-vet campaign might have few people using detect pots because Cloak works pretty well for me, not in mid-battle but after LoS, shade etc.

If you play your sorc you must use hardened ward, there simply isnt any alternative imo.
So my question again, how do you survive with a sorc without shields? More specificly, which class skills would you use to survive high burst damage?

Lettigall · July 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

1. Sorc's& NB's don't have heal but they have escape tools, Temps& DK's don't have escape but they have self heals.
2. Sorc's aren't forced to wear light armor, players choose to play that way. Every other class who goes full dps sacrifice their defense, not sorc's, they get stronger shields.

Sav72 · July 2015

My god, you guys just do not get it... Let me make this very simple..

1) Sorc on average have a 20k damage shield up. (this is not the problem)

2) Shield never goes away!!!!! While you dot and cast spells. It takes a group of 5 plus to kill 1 sorc if they are lucky.

3) It never goes away!

4) It never goes away!

Is that clear enough?

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

My god, you guys just do not get it... Let me make this very simple..

1) Sorc on average have a 20k damage shield up. (this is not the problem)

2) Shield never goes away!!!!! While you dot and cast spells. It takes a group of 5 plus to kill 1 sorc if they are lucky.

3) It never goes away!

4) It never goes away!

Is that clear enough?

1) almost correct, most have 25k shield against spells but only 12k against phyical
2) shields have a timer of 20-25 seconds so they do go away if you dont recast them in time. If 5 people cannot dps down a 20-25k shields (only 4-5k damage per player) than dont blame the sorc, blame worthless dps. It takes at least 2 seconds to recast both shields and you cant cast them while CCed.
3) learn to play
4) try again

Clear enough?

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

1. Sorc's& NB's don't have heal but they have escape tools, Temps& DK's don't have escape but they have self heals.
2. Sorc's aren't forced to wear light armor, players choose to play that way. Every other class who goes full dps sacrifice their defense, not sorc's, they get stronger shields.

If templars increase magicka or spell dmg they get stronger heals and more damage.

Its exactly the same, only sorcs dont get stronger shields with more spell damage and most sorc spec for spell damage.

eliisra · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

My god, you guys just do not get it... Let me make this very simple..

1) Sorc on average have a 20k damage shield up. (this is not the problem)

2) Shield never goes away!!!!! While you dot and cast spells. It takes a group of 5 plus to kill 1 sorc if they are lucky.

3) It never goes away!

4) It never goes away!

Is that clear enough?

It never goes away because of Bolt Escape + dirtcheap magicka based movement speed. As soon as you're taking dmg on a sorc you blink out, reposition and recast all the shields. This is why sorcerers are the hardest class in the game to kill. Also why magicka builds just can kill a good sorc in the open field. It's not possible solo to break down all shields, while keeping up with insane mobility.

But again, shields are not the main problem. They're gone in 1-3 seconds, against a semi-competent player.
It's those shields combined with other strong mechanics like high mobility(or permablock), that makes broken builds.

I to hate the massive influx of fotm bunnyjumping, shield stacking sorcs blinking half the map as soon as they take even a sliver of dmg, only to come back 20 second later and nuking you in the back with a 15k Crystal Fragment or Overload. But still, maybe wait for PTS and see what the cost increase to Bolt Escape will actually do, before we turn sorcs in free AP?

Lettigall · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

1. Sorc's& NB's don't have heal but they have escape tools, Temps& DK's don't have escape but they have self heals.
2. Sorc's aren't forced to wear light armor, players choose to play that way. Every other class who goes full dps sacrifice their defense, not sorc's, they get stronger shields.

If templars increase magicka or spell dmg they get stronger heals and more damage.

Its exactly the same, only sorcs dont get stronger shields with more spell damage and most sorc spec for spell damage.

Yes templar gonna boost his survivability tool- heal. No matter how much magicka points you put in your stats class shield wont get stronger. But sorcs putting all in magicka gets more damage, stronger shields and more bolting away(yes I know that it will change in 1.7 but now we talk about 1.6).

Sithisvoid · July 2015

They should make a nerf foam sword arena for all the guys who want to run around fighting but no one ever gets hurt. Don't wanna get istagibbed or deal with shield stacking? Here ya go king Arthur's kiddie land adventure

notimetocare · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I don't get, why people are complaining about shield stacking. The only Problem I see is Healing Ward, this is OP. But since it gets double nerfed next update, it might become less usefull (hopefully)

Tanks have strong block, stamina people have roll dodge and Magicka people have shields. Can't spot an imbalance.
All 3 are perfectly valid ways to mitigate damage and uhm.... have you heared of CC ? Try it, it's the worst enemy of a Sorcerer.

Sorc shield does not require a ton of health to be effective, its actually the opposite. 20k shield and only needing 15-20k health while you toss 15k crits. #balance

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

1. Sorc's& NB's don't have heal but they have escape tools, Temps& DK's don't have escape but they have self heals.
2. Sorc's aren't forced to wear light armor, players choose to play that way. Every other class who goes full dps sacrifice their defense, not sorc's, they get stronger shields.

If templars increase magicka or spell dmg they get stronger heals and more damage.

Its exactly the same, only sorcs dont get stronger shields with more spell damage and most sorc spec for spell damage.

Yes templar gonna boost his survivability tool- heal. No matter how much magicka points you put in your stats class shield wont get stronger. But sorcs putting all in magicka gets more damage, stronger shields and more bolting away(yes I know that it will change in 1.7 but now we talk about 1.6).

And yet most sorcs are speccing for spell damage, which does nothing for shields, their magicka pool is decent ofc but not insanely huge. Templars who spec for spell damage increase their damage and heals but you hear no-one about this.

Everyone just gets on the sorc bashing train and tries to make the class worthless again, all in the name of "balance".
There are perfectly fine counters against shieldstackers, just as counters against perma blockers, rollerblades, cloaking NBs etc.

Sav72 · July 2015

Everyone just gets on the sorc bashing train and tries to make the class worthless again, all in the name of "balance".
There are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers, just as counters against perma blockers, rollerblades, cloaking NBs etc.

I do agree with you on this, I think PERMA : blocking, shields , roll dodging is ruining the pvp aspect of the game.

You want to spam Reflect, Shields, Blocks, Dodging, that is fine with me, BUT give the rest of the players a chance to spec in something to give us a CHANCE to counter that.

There has to be some Yin and Yang.

For example: Spamming heals and Lethal Arrow

Lettigall · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

1. Sorc's& NB's don't have heal but they have escape tools, Temps& DK's don't have escape but they have self heals.
2. Sorc's aren't forced to wear light armor, players choose to play that way. Every other class who goes full dps sacrifice their defense, not sorc's, they get stronger shields.

If templars increase magicka or spell dmg they get stronger heals and more damage.

Its exactly the same, only sorcs dont get stronger shields with more spell damage and most sorc spec for spell damage.

Yes templar gonna boost his survivability tool- heal. No matter how much magicka points you put in your stats class shield wont get stronger. But sorcs putting all in magicka gets more damage, stronger shields and more bolting away(yes I know that it will change in 1.7 but now we talk about 1.6).

And yet most sorcs are speccing for spell damage, which does nothing for shields, their magicka pool is decent ofc but not insanely huge. Templars who spec for spell damage increase their damage and heals but you hear no-one about this.

Everyone just gets on the sorc bashing train and tries to make the class worthless again, all in the name of "balance".
There are perfectly fine counters against shieldstackers, just as counters against perma blockers, rollerblades, cloaking NBs etc.

And with this "decent magicka pool" sorcs can attack, cast shields and bolt away across map. Of course shields can be countered but when you fight sorcs you need to counter 2 survivability tools- shields and escaping mechanism. And hardened ward is the only damage shield that does not scale off of your max HP!

Sorcs need a balancing, stamina sorcs needs serious buffs and some skills need to be changed, nerfed or buffed so there wouldn't be one cookie cutter build.

Lucky28 · July 2015

@Lettigall

What is your point?. Hardened ward doesn't 'scale of HP because it's designed for Sorcs who often don't spec on HP.

When fighting dragon knights you have to counter more than 2 survivability tools, when fighting knightblades you also have to counter more than 2 survivability tools. and yet sorcs are getting the attention here why?. Because people are upset they have to actually think about how to take out another player?, sorry don't see that as a minus.

Leandor · July 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

@Lettigall

What is your point?. Hardened ward doesn't 'scale of HP because it's designed for Sorcs who often don't spec on HP.

Your point is? DK and templars also don't usually spec for hp and their shields do scale on hp. No one specs hp except for a bad pve tank (good ones spec hp until they can survive the big hits and the rest goes into stam/mag to be able to block & use abilities)