20k plus damage shield spam...

Sav72 · July 2015

What where you guys thinking Zen?

Amazing game and graphics.

No common sense thou..............

Wing · July 2015

im sure your specifically talking about sorc, but Templar and DK can achieve some pretty crazy shield numbers if they invest in health. for instance, DK shield, healing ward, and bone shield give 100% of your hp in shield when combined (before CP bonuses etc.)

with the gutting of legit heavy armor sword and board tanking coming up a lot of us are trying to come up with better means of tanking, and bubble tanking looks promising as well as flat damage reduction tanking through things like mist form and cyrodil set (this will be more viable in PvE come vamp fire reduction) and the effectiveness of mist form tanking can actually be seen in PvP right now to much rage lol.

sad because I like sword and board

Sav72 · July 2015

Yes I am talking about sorc, they get attacked from 4 people and take no damage, while they dot and spam shield.

If this is not OP, then its like I said in my post.

ZEN has no common sense, when it comes to sorc.

Cinbri · July 2015

Well, seems ZOS solution is new IC set that stated to increase damage vs shields. Entire set vs 1 mechanic..

Rhakon · July 2015

Its to easy for sorcs, just stack magica for highest shield ingame, endless bolt escape, and high burst damage.

there are no tradeoffs, this is what makes Stackers(better name for sorc atm) boring and easy to play and equip.

Gorthax · July 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

Yes I am talking about sorc, they get attacked from 4 people and take no damage, while they dot and spam shield.

If this is not OP, then its like I said in my post.

ZEN has no common sense, when it comes to sorc.

I am sure you probably ran into 2 of the 4 who do this, whom we cant name because ZoS protects them, but rest assured, they are taking advantage of a not so well known exploit combod with another not so well known one to give them 90% mitigation. If it was a normal sorc not using those exploits, then you can kill them easily. If you cant then you need to reassess your build, gear, skill, and tactics.

This is not a learn to play statement, I am just simply saying to reassess everything. There are numerous ways to kill sorcs and also ways to catch bolt escape sorcs (ummmm speed potion anyone???). If it was one of the 4 whom we cant say that you ran into, then dont let them give such a false sense of every sorc does it. That is how we got into this "nerf sorc" mess in the first place and everyone just assumes all sorcs do it.

P.S.

If you have a problem with shield stacking, is it safe to assume you dont like people permanently holding down right click for permablock while beating the crap out of you? Or perma dodge rollers? What about perma invis? Perma invis is only going to get worse in the next patch lol

Gorthax · July 2015

Rhakon wrote: »

Its to easy for sorcs, just stack magica for highest shield ingame, endless bolt escape, and high burst damage.

there are no tradeoffs, this is what makes Stackers(better name for sorc atm) boring and easy to play and equip.

Sav72 · July 2015

No. I agree the block and dodge rolling is a joke.

I just think its ridiculous that this is capable. I could understand if this was 10 plus years ago when MMOs were coming out.

The Dodge, shields and blocks in this game are ludicrous.

Frawr · July 2015

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

Demonsional · July 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

I am sure you probably ran into 2 of the 4 who do this, whom we cant name because ZoS protects them, but rest assured, they are taking advantage of a not so well known exploit combod with another not so well known one to give them 90% mitigation.

Very true, I've PvPed for such a good while to know that 20k spell shield isn't much to burst through, BUT what gorthax just wrote is very true, there are some stackers out there that can obtain VERY HIGH mitigation through their shields. Im talkin about a 5k attack only doing 600 dmg to these so called shields. (Can a legitimate sorc verify that this is too much mitigation for shields?)

Shields should not be able to turn 5k dmg into a mere 600 dmg, if so, can someone please point the math out to me? There has to be exploiting being done, theres some sorcs with shields i can really burst down, then there are shields (just on a few people) that can withstand 50k+ dmg just because it turns 5k dmg into 600 dmg. (If you see 10+ people on 1 sorc, they are most likely an exploiter, a regular shield stacker can die pretty easily to 3 good players.) I heard hint that this crazy mitigation shield requires 3 things, that of which I know nothing about since Ive never played magicka. I have reason to believe that this can also be done with a templar, and that reasoning comes from the words of one of these so called special sorcs that roam cyrodiil damn near unkillable.

Zsymon · July 2015

Frawr wrote: »

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

No they can't, no PvP DPS build can pull 30K non crit damage in a few seconds. Only pure PVE glass cannon builds have such high tooltips.

Dracane · July 2015

I don't get, why people are complaining about shield stacking. The only Problem I see is Healing Ward, this is OP. But since it gets double nerfed next update, it might become less usefull (hopefully)

Tanks have strong block, stamina people have roll dodge and Magicka people have shields. Can't spot an imbalance.
All 3 are perfectly valid ways to mitigate damage and uhm.... have you heared of CC ? Try it, it's the worst enemy of a Sorcerer.

Zsymon · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I don't get, why people are complaining about shield stacking. The only Problem I see is Healing Ward, this is OP. But since it gets double nerfed next update, it might become less usefull (hopefully)

Tanks have strong block, stamina people have roll dodge and Magicka people have shields. Can't spot an imbalance.
All 3 are perfectly valid ways to mitigate damage and uhm.... have you heared of CC ? Try it, it's the worst enemy of a Sorcerer.

How often do people have to tell you that shields aren't getting nerfed the next update?

Shields will be exactly as effective in terms of survivability in the next patch. If you lower shield strength by 35%, and you lower damage output by 35% as well, then the shields did not get nerfed, this is very easy math.

Also block is being nerfed into oblivion, as well as dodge, neither will be very useful anymore at all, yet shield stacking remains as strong as ever, so what are you on about?

Sav72 · July 2015

Frawr wrote: »

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

Thanks for the laugh.....

domlynchb16_ESO · July 2015

Check out this video on me getting through sorc shields..

"twitch.tv/dominicdubai/v/8081380"

skip to 24 minutes

PS4 fun.

I often pvp him and his emporer DragonKnight buddy, and to be fair, its 50/50 - sometimes i die, sometimes they die

usually whoever attacks first

I'm new to this whole twitch/video thing so going to make some edits and post in the next few weeks..

Akinos · July 2015

Frawr wrote: »

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

Sounds like you are the one that should L2P if "average dps" can knock out your 30k shields in a few seconds, lol.

Dracane · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't get, why people are complaining about shield stacking. The only Problem I see is Healing Ward, this is OP. But since it gets double nerfed next update, it might become less usefull (hopefully)

Tanks have strong block, stamina people have roll dodge and Magicka people have shields. Can't spot an imbalance.
All 3 are perfectly valid ways to mitigate damage and uhm.... have you heared of CC ? Try it, it's the worst enemy of a Sorcerer.

How often do people have to tell you that shields aren't getting nerfed the next update?

Shields will be exactly as effective in terms of survivability in the next patch. If you lower shield strength by 35%, and you lower damage output by 35% as well, then the shields did not get nerfed, this is very easy math.

Also block is being nerfed into oblivion, as well as dodge, neither will be very useful anymore at all, yet shield stacking remains as strong as ever, so what are you on about?

Of course they will get nerfed.
Damage is reduced by 30%, shields by 35%. So 5% weaker shields compared to damage.
And healing ward will be extremely weak. Not only the shield is much weaker, also the restore is mitigated by 50%.

Dracane · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't get, why people are complaining about shield stacking. The only Problem I see is Healing Ward, this is OP. But since it gets double nerfed next update, it might become less usefull (hopefully)

Tanks have strong block, stamina people have roll dodge and Magicka people have shields. Can't spot an imbalance.
All 3 are perfectly valid ways to mitigate damage and uhm.... have you heared of CC ? Try it, it's the worst enemy of a Sorcerer.

How often do people have to tell you that shields aren't getting nerfed the next update?

Shields will be exactly as effective in terms of survivability in the next patch. If you lower shield strength by 35%, and you lower damage output by 35% as well, then the shields did not get nerfed, this is very easy math.

Also block is being nerfed into oblivion, as well as dodge, neither will be very useful anymore at all, yet shield stacking remains as strong as ever, so what are you on about?

Of course they will get nerfed.
Damage is reduced by 30%, shields by 35%. So 5% weaker shields compared to damage.
And healing ward will be extremely weak. Not only the shield is much weaker, also the restore is mitigated (healing reduction).

Tankqull · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

No they can't, no PvP DPS build can pull 30K non crit damage in a few seconds. Only pure PVE glass cannon builds have such high tooltips.

and? thats in no way different from the sorcs beeing able to have 30k shields, wich contain to 60% of a shield only affecting spell dmg. while only stacking max magica into the 30k++ value to get shields that high neglecting spell dmg, stamina and health reducing their dmg and their survivability more than they increase by bigger shields.

leepalmer95 · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

my sorc can get a cool 30k shields. easy. and your average dps can remove it in a couple of seconds (of stun!).

I really don't see the problem.

L2P issue?

No they can't, no PvP DPS build can pull 30K non crit damage in a few seconds. Only pure PVE glass cannon builds have such high tooltips.

and? thats in no way different from the sorcs beeing able to have 30k shields, wich contain to 60% of a shield only affecting spell dmg. while only stacking max magica into the 30k++ value to get shields that high neglecting spell dmg, stamina and health reducing their dmg and their survivability more than they increase by bigger shields.

it isn't hard to get 30k+ magicka for a sorc and keep spell dmg, hp, etc... although i don't see why sorc bother with hp too much, shield = survivability.

MaxwellC · July 2015

As a "bad" Melee only DK player getting through shields is a annoying especially when they heal up and repeat. I usually catch them off guard when they use magic abilities and I reflect it followed up with wrecking blow. I've fought a few sorcerers who used shield stacking to their advantage and I've beat them but it's mainly a 40/60 kind of thing.

I say bad because I use all heavy armour and main/sub 2h only melee dps.

Milktray · July 2015

I know it's crazy, we can heal as we constantly spam sipho .. oh wait

Plus there's our whole line for heali .. oh wait thats not us

Haven't really tried DK but i hear they have an awesome heal

I could morph a pet to heal as it dies but .. i don't like pets so that out but there is our other huge ass heal umm, ......

If your going to complain about sheilds and then try to say we have no trade off .. lets allow you to stack sheilds as ours do but at the same time lets reduce your healing abilities to the same as ours?

Flaminir · July 2015

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

Valrien · July 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

THANK YOU! Finally someone understands this. Healing Ward is our only heal. No Breath of Life, no Sap, no Coagulating Blood. We have that, and we have shields. If you nerf shields, then the Sorcerer class dies, quite literally. It's not as if you can't get past the shields. 3 good players, or even 2 really really good players can get past them. Even 1 can do it, they'll just have to burst more.

Flaminir · July 2015

Valrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

THANK YOU! Finally someone understands this. Healing Ward is our only heal. No Breath of Life, no Sap, no Coagulating Blood. We have that, and we have shields. If you nerf shields, then the Sorcerer class dies, quite literally. It's not as if you can't get past the shields. 3 good players, or even 2 really really good players can get past them. Even 1 can do it, they'll just have to burst more.

ZoS deliberately give different classes very different mechanics..... Most of the 'Nerf this' people are those who haven't played the class they want nerfing nearly enough to understand why the skill/mechanic is there in the first place.

There's always the exceptions though before anybody jumps down my throat!

In the case of shields... the counter is CC/Stuns. Sorcs have low stamina, and underneath the shield they are in a wet paperbag... so concentrate on trying to stun them.

If they bolt... use your gap closer. The gap closers have more range than two bolt escapes and will knock down the sorc... whereupon you can rip through the shields in a second or two as shields have zero mitigation & you do 100% damage against them)

Sav72 · July 2015

Valrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

People who want Sorc shields nerfed are not Sorcs...

They forget / don't realize why a Sorc has these shields in the first place..... It's two reasons:

1. Sorc's have no reliable self heal... we have a shield instead.
2. Magicka Sorcs are usually in light armor... this gives three times less mitigation than medium & 4 times less than heavy. Without a shield, Sorcs are just in free AP / instakill territory.

THANK YOU! Finally someone understands this. Healing Ward is our only heal. No Breath of Life, no Sap, no Coagulating Blood. We have that, and we have shields. If you nerf shields, then the Sorcerer class dies, quite literally. It's not as if you can't get past the shields. 3 good players, or even 2 really really good players can get past them. Even 1 can do it, they'll just have to burst more.

You guys are ignorant, no one said to take away your shields.

To have an ability, of not being able to take damage form a group of 5 plus members while you are casting offensive spells is just over powered. Why is something so simple , hard for you to understand?

SHIELDS in ES were WARDS... you have to cast and hold shield up, while you run out of magica which does not last forever.

If you are defending Sorc that there shields are not OP and are fine the way they are... then your common sense in life is "0"

You want your shields?

Give other classes and championship ability to be able to spec in penetrating shields, then keep your OP shields as long as we have "Chance" to penetrate some damage.

Leandor · July 2015

I have a good solution to shield spam, actually the same that is applied to cloak, the other permanently complained about ability:

Make the shield disappear upon initiating an offensive ability. Do this only for ward. Thus, the sorcerer has his defense ability, can stack as much as he wants in order to survive and/or flee but loses this as soon as he attacks. Same as nightblades have to deal with

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Re-roll a sorc and see how OP the shields are in group battles.
I can easily take on 10+ guys hammering at my shields without my health ever dropping below 80%!
Even when my health drops I just pop my strong defensive class skill or class heal and Im full health again.

Frankly, with all the great defensive skills in the sorc skill trees I dont even need Hardened Ward.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

I have a good solution to shield spam, actually the same that is applied to cloak, the other permanently complained about ability:

Make the shield disappear upon initiating an offensive ability. Do this only for ward. Thus, the sorcerer has his defense ability, can stack as much as he wants in order to survive and/or flee but loses this as soon as he attacks. Same as nightblades have to deal with

Haha, I take it you dont play a sorc?
How do you plan on surviving more than 5 seconds in light armor (=no mitigation) and no shields?

Cloak makes you invisible so your mitigation is effectively 100% until you're found. Also you can attack with a surprise burst or escape from the fight/use line of sight.

Shields dont make you invisible so you take full hits without any mitigation from unlimited number of players.

Please think before making such ridiculous suggestions.

Leandor · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I have a good solution to shield spam, actually the same that is applied to cloak, the other permanently complained about ability:

Make the shield disappear upon initiating an offensive ability. Do this only for ward. Thus, the sorcerer has his defense ability, can stack as much as he wants in order to survive and/or flee but loses this as soon as he attacks. Same as nightblades have to deal with

Haha, I take it you dont play a sorc?
How do you plan on surviving more than 5 seconds in light armor (=no mitigation) and no shields?

Cloak makes you invisible so your mitigation is effectively 100% until you're found. Also you can attack with a surprise burst or escape from the fight/use line of sight.

Shields dont make you invisible so you take full hits without any mitigation from unlimited number of players.

Please think before making such ridiculous suggestions.

My current main is a sorc, I recently switched from a nightblade. But I can see you don't play a nightblade in PvP, mate.

Skiserony · July 2015

Ugh, one of those sensitive topics.

This is something where both parties are right but can't accept the other one's opinions.

For those who say shields is their only way to survive (which is kinda true) don't always realize because of that they are able to do massive dps. So that's kinda both ways, increasing defensive and offensive abilities with going max magicka is pretty powerful. But yeah, without their shields they would be worth almost nothing.

For those who say bringing down 30k shield in a few seconds is possible aren't wrong either I gotta say, but that doesn't count for all builds. A NB or Sorc can do it easily, also because they have the mobility for it. But for a DK and Templar it's a bit harder since they don't have crazy burst dps. But it's possible if you time thing good. The thing is they don't have the mobility to chase down a Sorc or NB which makes them 'weaker' in some kind of way.

Templars and DKs might not do extreme burst damage, but they have great survivabilty and they own unique (powerful) skills, like reflects.

If you have ever been to duels, you'll see that there a as powerful DKs and Templars as Sorcs and NBs. Ofcourse these are duels, 1vX or XvX is something complete different in a way which makes Sorcs and NBs 'stronger' because of their mobility and shields/dodge.

I think we just gotta see till 1.7 how it goes, which I'm not certain about it yet for those builds without crazy burst dps. We'll see.