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We need ability cooldowns
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Xael✭✭✭✭✭There someone said it.
It actually needs to happen to save the remaining PvP playerbase.
It will feel awful, it will hurt, but jesus... the lag. The lag would be gone forever.
They will lose more players with a horrible idea like this.
Please don't say you want this because of lag... that's absurd and probably dishonest. Nobody in favor of a no-cd system would ask for skill cds. You would ask them to fix their 32 bit pos game that exceeds 32bit limitations.
No thanks. Terrible suggestion.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With cooldowns you need like 5 times more ability bar space and skills.
I´d like to have like 5 different damage skills or something, using them as i like instead of spamming the same *** over and over and over and over.
Also it would mean something if you cast something at the wrong time.Edited by Soulac on July 21, 2015 8:01PMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not a big enough ability bar to have cool downs.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC3 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SturgeHammer wrote: »If they need to implement cool-downs to fix this game.
I'll gladly move on to a new game.
Agreed, cool downs are dumb. Resource management makes the combat feel so much more dynamic. That being said, I do think there are a lot of "more bang for you buck" abilities that need re-costing, thus reducing the frequency they are cast. I know it isn't ZOS policy to nerf, but cost changing for the sake of balance is way more tolerable than a damage or utility nerf.
For sure dude.
There are so many "smart" fixes Zenimax can implement to fix the game, without gutting it and turning it into every other generic MMO. Efficient purge doesn't need to be as cheap as it is, you should be lucky to use that ability once to cleanse yourself and your allies. Siege effects shouldn't be cleaned with any cleanse skill, they're anti-troop siege for a reason. Cut down on the raid spamming purges, there are way too many defensive abilities both with skills and the champion system.Edited by OdinForge on July 22, 2015 1:02PMThe Age of Wrobel.0 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.0 -
Gizit✭✭✭I think thats a good idea.
and I dont remember only having 5 skills, i think i have 10... + 2
i think we would all manage.
Good Post.I do the things! for the team, score points! win the day by *** the stuff! HELL yeah!0 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
Also you can't compare a MOBA to an MMO. DotA and ESO are nowhere close to the same type of game.
Citing the current era of e-sports as the goldstandard for how a PvP mmo should be is very dishonest and misleading. You basically took the past 18 years of gaming history and swept it under the rug.
This thread is extremely pretentious.
Adding a cooldown to skills is not going to solve the lag problem. Even asking for such thing is ludicrous and speaks volumes of the hidden agenda.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.
We need actual resource management. The abilities that need cooldowns already have them (hello ultimates).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That evil laughter meme makes me laugh every single time lol !
aaaand to the OP: NO xDEU | PC1 -
Rayste✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
Also you can't compare a MOBA to an MMO. DotA and ESO are nowhere close to the same type of game.
Citing the current era of e-sports as the goldstandard for how a PvP mmo should be is very dishonest and misleading. You basically took the past 18 years of gaming history and swept it under the rug.
This thread is extremely pretentious.
Adding a cooldown to skills is not going to solve the lag problem. Even asking for such thing is ludicrous and speaks volumes of the hidden agenda.
Interesting ..... what hidden agenda?
As for the idea ... NO Thank YouThe Teach - AD Templar0 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
I am sorry to shatter your world view, but the games you mentioned were VERY poor in terms of PvP, and were played by marginal groups of those games' fanatics, which were nothing compared to real PvP games of that time.
Edited by Phoenix99 on July 23, 2015 1:11PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
I am sorry to shatter your world view, but the games you mentioned were VERY poor in terms of PvP, and were played by marginal groups of those games' fanatics, which were nothing compared to real PvP games of that time.
The only "real" pvp mmo of that time was daoc which basically had no cooldowns except for the super strong abilities (instant cc - heal - interruptimmunity - purge - rez... much like ultimates in eso but with longer cooldowns tied to different abilities).
But this game also had a beautiful buff and debuff system, actual hard interrupts and crowd control that deserved that name.
Edit: By "real" pvp game i meant that daoc was the only of those games mentioned where pvp was the major endgame content.
Edited by Derra on July 23, 2015 1:47PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
I am sorry to shatter your world view, but the games you mentioned were VERY poor in terms of PvP, and were played by marginal groups of those games' fanatics, which were nothing compared to real PvP games of that time.
Shatter my world view? How about you learn your gaming history before spouting off? UO was the first. It was the pvp game of its time and had no rivals. The next game to come out was Everquest. In terms of popular PvP UO was still at the top until 2003 with Dark Age of Camelot and Asheron's Call coming in 2nd. Shadowbane and Darkfall came later but their PvP was also a success even though the overall games were a bust for different reasons outside of PvP. So please, spare me the nonsense. I have been playing MMOs since UO and I recognize the paradigm shift from true hardcore PvP to candyland consensual no consequence PvP. Regarding the above mentioned and then trying to juxtapose them with as you say "real PvP games of that time" is completely ignorant.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...2 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭No. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
I am sorry to shatter your world view, but the games you mentioned were VERY poor in terms of PvP, and were played by marginal groups of those games' fanatics, which were nothing compared to real PvP games of that time.
Shatter my world view? How about you learn your gaming history before spouting off? UO was the first. It was the pvp game of its time and had no rivals. The next game to come out was Everquest. In terms of popular PvP UO was still at the top until 2003 with Dark Age of Camelot and Asheron's Call coming in 2nd. Shadowbane and Darkfall came later but their PvP was also a success even though the overall games were a bust for different reasons outside of PvP. So please, spare me the nonsense. I have been playing MMOs since UO and I recognize the paradigm shift from true hardcore PvP to candyland consensual no consequence PvP. Regarding the above mentioned and then trying to juxtapose them with as you say "real PvP games of that time" is completely ignorant.
you mistake MMO PvP games with popular PvP games...
why those games died out and other games stood hard in their premise?
FPS era with Quake and later Counterstrike
RTS era with C&C and later creating the e-sports with the Starcraft title
MOBA era started by first map in SC - called Aeon of Strife and then evolved into DotA once Warcraft3 introduced better hero mechanics...
yet gameplay from the games you mentioned failed, could not stand on its own... Also you need to remember that a LOT of PvP was happening in local LANs across the world and internet caffes, in 1990-2000 high speed internet was not that cheap or widespread around the world, but for some reason the more available it became, the less share of the PvP market the poor designs of PvP had... like the mentioned games in your list...
If they would be good, they would stand on their own with tens of thousands active players and any given time, like Starcraft had even after the launch of SC2:WoL or DotA after the emergence of new games in the genre like LoL.
I believe that it is you that should learn some PvP history bud.0 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭And thanks to this stupid thread there are now 3 threads spouting the same nonsense. Idiots parrot idiotsNo. Imagine playing a game where you only have 5 skills you can use at any given time, and they all have cooldowns. I'd go back to SWTOR if I wanted cooldowns, at least I'd get a better storyline and be able to use more abilities.
MOBA games - LoL, DotA2? the have cooldowns and are best team e-sports games, with for example prizepool of the next major tournament of DotA2 (the International) hitting over 17mil USD, making even 6th place team getting 1mil USD back home.
Apparently those games do something right in terms of PvP, excluding the smaller scale engagement and teams.
Cooldowns are in every competitive PvP game - EVERY SINGLE One... no real PvP game allows for endless spam.
Ultima Online, Darkfall, Dark Age, Shadowbane. All of these were REAL PvP games, they allowed spamming.
The difference is years down the road people became whiny and limpwristed and needed candyland type of games. ESO is a candyass game compared to any of those. Yet at least it got the no cd system correct.
I am sorry to shatter your world view, but the games you mentioned were VERY poor in terms of PvP, and were played by marginal groups of those games' fanatics, which were nothing compared to real PvP games of that time.
Shatter my world view? How about you learn your gaming history before spouting off? UO was the first. It was the pvp game of its time and had no rivals. The next game to come out was Everquest. In terms of popular PvP UO was still at the top until 2003 with Dark Age of Camelot and Asheron's Call coming in 2nd. Shadowbane and Darkfall came later but their PvP was also a success even though the overall games were a bust for different reasons outside of PvP. So please, spare me the nonsense. I have been playing MMOs since UO and I recognize the paradigm shift from true hardcore PvP to candyland consensual no consequence PvP. Regarding the above mentioned and then trying to juxtapose them with as you say "real PvP games of that time" is completely ignorant.
you mistake MMO PvP games with popular PvP games...
why those games died out and other games stood hard in their premise?
FPS era with Quake and later Counterstrike
RTS era with C&C and later creating the e-sports with the Starcraft title
MOBA era started by first map in SC - called Aeon of Strife and then evolved into DotA once Warcraft3 introduced better hero mechanics...
yet gameplay from the games you mentioned failed, could not stand on its own... Also you need to remember that a LOT of PvP was happening in local LANs across the world and internet caffes, in 1990-2000 high speed internet was not that cheap or widespread around the world, but for some reason the more available it became, the less share of the PvP market the poor designs of PvP had... like the mentioned games in your list...
If they would be good, they would stand on their own with tens of thousands active players and any given time, like Starcraft had even after the launch of SC2:WoL or DotA after the emergence of new games in the genre like LoL.
I believe that it is you that should learn some PvP history bud.
MMORPG and MMO are not the same thing.
Why did the games I mention die out? You are talking about the first of its kind from 1997? Several factors, people grew up and got jobs, went to college, etc. Technology changed. Better engines came out. Generations changed, people became more softminded, limpwristed and asked for games with no risk pvp. This is a fact. There are several reasons, none of which are relevant to your argument, stop reaching.
FPS is not MMORPG.
RTS is not MMORPG
MOBA are not MMORPG
I was around for Quake and CS. I was around for UO. I was around for SC/WC3 as I have been playing DotA since 04. I don't see your point.
The gameplay I mentioned did stand on its own. It stood for years. UO is still played and has one of the most successful communities that continue to create player run shards. So cut the crap.
PvP on lans is not an MMORPG. Stop with the equivocating. You are being dishonest.
Starcraft is not an MMORPG. Stop with the equivocating. You are being dishonest.
DotA is not an MMORPG. Stop with the equivocating. You are being dishonest.
Talking to me about PvP history when we are talking about cooldowns in MMORPGs (when I am talking about MMORPGs), you keep talking in circles citing first person shooters and real time strategy games like warcraft and starcraft. This is irrelevant and duplicitous. It's neither here nor there. Don't tell me I need to learn some PvP history when you can't even comprehend the discussion that is being had or stay on track.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...2 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭I am talking about actually successful PvP games, not about minor fraction of the overall PvP community, especially in the design which is hardly seen even among the most popular MMORPG.
None of the titles you mentioned converted into a newer generation game, which would be successful. Why? Because that kind of PvP mechanics is simply bad.0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be on board with a 0.1 second cool down to stop macros.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series0 -
ewhite106b16_ESO✭✭✭I'm totally against adding cooldowns, IMO it would wreck the game. I want to watch and react to the actual combat, not spend most of my time watching hotbar for cooldowns. First of all should see how server lag is after the imperial city patch, if it's still a problem there's other steps that can be taken like simplifying AOEs so there are no checks that diminish damage.
As for issues like wrecking blow spam, the answer there alot of the time is "learn to play". Some abilities do need rebalancing but for most others there are plenty of avoidance tactics that players don't use.
EDIT: I'm not against balancing certain things like dodge roll and streak by increasing the cost when the ability is used again within say 5 seconds, unlike cooldowns the cost increase doesn't flat out STOP the player from using the ability and doesn't involve having to watch hotbar a bunch.Edited by ewhite106b16_ESO on July 23, 2015 11:32PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am talking about actually successful PvP games, not about minor fraction of the overall PvP community, especially in the design which is hardly seen even among the most popular MMORPG.
None of the titles you mentioned converted into a newer generation game, which would be successful. Why? Because that kind of PvP mechanics is simply bad.
Except for UO, Everquest, DAoC and Asherons call - with daoc being the only real pvp focused game out of those have been immensely successful for their respective time period where broadband and flatrate internet were not as widespread as they are today. That and mmorpgs being timeconsuming by design hindered their success quite a bit one might suspect. Especially compared to instant action titles like quake, cs or UT.
Also if you want shooter mechanics like quake or CS - currently eso is excactly that. Instagib the bads: l0l tough luck n00b.
You can´t compare different genres. I play eso specifically to play an mmorpg with pvp. There have been quite a few mmorpgs with pvp that were mildly to very successful. I don´t want to play rts, shooter or dota clones. Leave them out of the comparison. Ppl that want to play those games have the option to download and play them.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Amen.
I think everyone is talking at cross purposes on this thread.
Define cooldown..and all versions of it that are currently used in this game.
I dont think most people want to be waiting for timers to expire before they hit another skill.
Neither do they want macro kiddies running optimisation algorithms to exploit animation cancelling to the max and destroy the game for everyone else.
You have people on here saying what they don't want and its being taken to imply ...therefore...they do want the other.
I don't think that's true for most of the posters.
I think the point is whether....
1. Damage should be proportional to cost only and ignore timers.
2. Damage should be proportional to exectution time and ignore cost.
3. Damage should be proportional to cost and execution time.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0
