Keeping zergs away from IC

Jules · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

If they can't figure out a way to appropriately give smaller numbers a chance against larger numbers, then I kind of agree with this. I just can't see it being healthy for the game otherwise, and I've grown to appreciate large groups more with my time in Vehemence and I'd be sad that that kind of game play wouldn't exist, but I'm not sure it's good for the game to allow zerg trains to farm IC.

That being said, if they cannot find a way to make small mans effective ala AoE cap removal, factions will have to work together. You want your faction to succeed in Cyrodil? Then you need to maintain the IC for your faction so that your fellow players can get their TV and in turn the loot and materials needed to strengthen their builds and groups. This could end up forcing us to work together more, which I know would be a huge undertaking as there is some deep hatred among guild leaders in all factions.

That being said though, please, please do not farm the other factions at their respective gates...

All of that. But especially this^

Please do not pummel opponents so that they are so demoralized they log. This is not good for the health of the game. Also, if they leave, you will have nothing to do. As far as caps in IC, we shall see. I want to see small man's have an advantage against large groups. I think it would make for more interesting gameplay for all.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Just make sure your alliance holds at least 1 home keeps of both enemies factions.
No enemies will enter Imperial City and you can PVE in peace.

Jules · July 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Just make sure your alliance holds at least 1 home keeps of both enemies factions.
No enemies will enter Imperial City and you can PVE in peace.

imo its a nightmare waiting to happen for them to mix pve & pvp.

SLy_Kyti · July 2015

This one has no need for large groups. Killing becomes impersonal.

When Lazer Light Show Zerg Show appears these days, Game stops. Land of Lag has no population when server kicks all. Better to be one of four than one of none.
The daedra in Imperial City are not so formidable that they require 12 or 24. Perhaps 4 warriors, six if they are Argonians would be fair.
Other factions that have no sage and powerful Queen to lead them may need a former emperor and 3 others to think themselves leet and have no fear there. This one know differently. This one smells the fear of Close Quarters Combat on them. They want a army, a raid group when one good AvA warrior would do.
This one looks forward to small patrols, running scared in the dark narrow confines of the city. Urban warfare. Close. Very close...and personal.

Joy_Division · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Let them come ... just give us a fair chance to kill them.

TheBull · July 2015

I was wondering what was gonna stop a group of 40 running from TV spot to TV spot like old Craglorn.

TBois · July 2015

The changes to prox det for the patch look promising. Hopefully the future meta will involve grps spreading out fearing NB's cloak bomb and DK's leap bomb

timidobserver · July 2015

Scale up the mobs based on the number of people attacking them. The mobs should be legendary hard mode god status level if 50 people are attacking them.

Sallington · July 2015

TheBull wrote: »

I was wondering what was gonna stop a group of 40 running from TV spot to TV spot like old Craglorn.

The only thing that can....

Lag

DUN Dun dun.....

Snit · July 2015

Please remember that one man's "zerg" is another man's "playing the game with my guildies."

tbmorrisonb14_ESO · July 2015

Just to get your juices flowing with some out of box thinking.

My solution eliminates the benefits of zerg, and strongly favors spreading out more. It allows an individual to do great harm to a zerg. This solution punishes zergs and the damage they deal.

Solution:
Make ALL PvP negative area effects hurt EVERYONE (good and bad guys) within range except the caster.
Make ALL PvP area heals effect EVERYONE in area (good and bad guys).

Now a red rings are death to anyone and a green rings are great for anyone.

"Targeted" heals that simultaneously hit most needed individuals, could include the enemy. Alternatively, perhaps, now that we've spread out, these types of heals can be changed to single target skills.

Sallington · July 2015

People don't need to spread out. The game needs to work when people aren't spread out.

People are going to "zerg". That's what they advertised. Big battles between a lot of people.

Ahzek · July 2015

@tbmorrisonb14_ESO sadly such a solution is not a realistic one. Gamer are humans. Some humans take joy from making others suffer. With your solution we will have quite a few individuals running around spamming AoEs and trying to troll the living crap out of people.

Chrlynsch · July 2015

tbmorrisonb14_ESO wrote: »

Just to get your juices flowing with some out of box thinking.

My solution eliminates the benefits of zerg, and strongly favors spreading out more. It allows an individual to do great harm to a zerg. This solution punishes zergs and the damage they deal.

Solution:
Make ALL PvP negative area effects hurt EVERYONE (good and bad guys) within range except the caster.
Make ALL PvP area heals effect EVERYONE in area (good and bad guys).

Now a red rings are death to anyone and a green rings are great for anyone.

"Targeted" heals that simultaneously hit most needed individuals, could include the enemy. Alternatively, perhaps, now that we've spread out, these types of heals can be changed to single target skills.

A troll's dream. Imagine pocket healers that you can't kill.... as long as this game has no way for the people to punish exploiters... we will see nothing but their blatant use.

ewhite106b16_ESO · July 2015

OP has a really good idea, this game really needs more small scale pvp in an open area (as opposed to making 5 v 5 arenas) and capping groups at four members is a good way to go about it. I've been in plenty of "pvp trains" - organized raid groups on TS and it's gotten really old, smaller scale PVP is just way more fun IMO. PVP raid groups are all about using the same few abiliities in the same way over and over again, while playing "follow the crown" as closely as possible. By contrast smaller scale PVP relies a great deal more on individual improvisation,decision making, and respondsibility. The group on a smaller scale needs to work together more spontaneously rather then every member fitting into a very fixed "slot" - IMO the smaller scale is way more engaging and interesting, especially when the group is able to do more then pick off a few stragglers at the edge of a zerg.

Running in an organized 24 man group does require skill, but it already dominates PVP in the rest of Cyrodil - having these same big groups running in imperial city will destroy the fun and really the whole point of having the area in the first place.

Also agree with what others have posted that AOE damage should be based on range from point of detonation, NOT the number of targets impacted. This change would go a really long way towards solving the "PVP train"/zerg problem in general.

Docmandu · July 2015

Flawlless wrote: »

The problem is their game obviously can't support large scale PvP anymore. I would rather them put their egos aside about what they intended the game to be and give us something we can actually play on a consistent basis. The 4-man group idea is a great one.

It handles it perfectly fine in non-Vet campaigns.. they just need to fix / workaround the few spells in vet campaigns that are the trigger for the server lagging out.

Leandor · July 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

The problem is their game obviously can't support large scale PvP anymore. I would rather them put their egos aside about what they intended the game to be and give us something we can actually play on a consistent basis. The 4-man group idea is a great one.

It handles it perfectly fine in non-Vet campaigns.. they just need to fix / workaround the few spells in vet campaigns that are the trigger for the server lagging out.

Which they will again attempt to do in the next update (LOS check changes). Here's to hoping that it will help a bit.

Xsorus · July 2015

Console has a cap of 12 people it seems on their large groups.

wouldn't mind seeing that on PC to be honest

TequilaFire · July 2015

Cap is 24 for PvP group on PS4.

tbmorrisonb14_ESO · July 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

@tbmorrisonb14_ESO sadly such a solution is not a realistic one. Gamer are humans. Some humans take joy from making others suffer. With your solution we will have quite a few individuals running around spamming AoEs and trying to troll the living crap out of people.

Solution for trolls: Like other skills, make the AOE damage occur only if at least enemy can be hit.

Takllin · July 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

The problem is their game obviously can't support large scale PvP anymore. I would rather them put their egos aside about what they intended the game to be and give us something we can actually play on a consistent basis. The 4-man group idea is a great one.

It handles it perfectly fine in non-Vet campaigns.. they just need to fix / workaround the few spells in vet campaigns that are the trigger for the server lagging out.

It's more about being able to spam abilities with much more frequency that is the issue rather than the abilities themselves. While they do cause lag, in vet you can pull off a lot more abilities in a much shorter time frame than you can with nonvet because of the absurd sustain that we have via CP system and removal of soft caps.

While the spells cause some lag, it is only exacerbated because we can spam them a lot more, and more frequently.

Docmandu · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

The problem is their game obviously can't support large scale PvP anymore. I would rather them put their egos aside about what they intended the game to be and give us something we can actually play on a consistent basis. The 4-man group idea is a great one.

It handles it perfectly fine in non-Vet campaigns.. they just need to fix / workaround the few spells in vet campaigns that are the trigger for the server lagging out.

It's more about being able to spam abilities with much more frequency that is the issue rather than the abilities themselves. While they do cause lag, in vet you can pull off a lot more abilities in a much shorter time frame than you can with nonvet because of the absurd sustain that we have via CP system and removal of soft caps.

While the spells cause some lag, it is only exacerbated because we can spam them a lot more, and more frequently.

You can spam skills in non-vet just fine.. divines + atronach + reduction on gear + CP work just fine in non-vet. And non-vet also has uber zergs, so that's not it either.

Takllin · July 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

The problem is their game obviously can't support large scale PvP anymore. I would rather them put their egos aside about what they intended the game to be and give us something we can actually play on a consistent basis. The 4-man group idea is a great one.

It handles it perfectly fine in non-Vet campaigns.. they just need to fix / workaround the few spells in vet campaigns that are the trigger for the server lagging out.

It's more about being able to spam abilities with much more frequency that is the issue rather than the abilities themselves. While they do cause lag, in vet you can pull off a lot more abilities in a much shorter time frame than you can with nonvet because of the absurd sustain that we have via CP system and removal of soft caps.

While the spells cause some lag, it is only exacerbated because we can spam them a lot more, and more frequently.

You can spam skills in non-vet just fine.. divines + atronach + reduction on gear + CP work just fine in non-vet. And non-vet also has uber zergs, so that's not it either.

Not nearly the same as a Veteran.....you are missing out on a lot of effects, passives, potions, food/drink.

Kupoking · July 2015

How to keep zergs away:

Block the choke with a few supply depots behind which you build a few bunkers with marines in it. Then, place a few siege tanks behind.

ThePonzzz · July 2015

Add friendly fire to Cyrodiil. Boom, zergs gone.

bosmern_ESO · July 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Am I alone in my thinking the only players around here trying to force their playstyle onto others are the zerglings themselves?

Your saying that in a post wanting there to be only solo/small groups in IC. There will be people who disagree and your saying that they are forcing their playstyle on others? on a thread that is trying to make only solo/small group in IC

I...I don't even...

If I'd speak freely I'd probably get this thread closed, so I don't.
Just know that ZOS clearly said IC is for small groups and eventually solo players if they dare, not zergs.

ZoS has never once said that IC is not for zergs. ZoS has said that IC will be more supportive of small groups (and when they say that they mean the dungeons).

Jessica Folsom said on Twitch chat zergs would not be effective as the rewards would be minimal in the IC.
Now from what happened in the past one would be naive to believe they'd manage to disincentivise zergballing, so players try to make suggestions to ensure success (as always).

Jules wrote: »

[...]
But this game was designed for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER, OPEN WORLD COMBAT. So everyone who QQ's about 24-man groups, the game does not support you. Sorry- but, logic outweighs your preferences. The max group amount is 24. Whether you prefer to play in 4,8,12,16,18 - or by yourself, all your decision. But none of that has as much weight as the fact that the game is literally designed to accept groups of 24. Now when people run 3,4 groups of 24 and coordinate all of these people in the same place, that's another story.
[...]

Neither does massive multiplayer have anything to do with zerging, nor is the IC open world.

Thats the same with AP, you gain less AP per kill depending on how many people are in your group, but 24 man groups if good players make the most AP per hour in the game, and it will be the same for stones. You might get less stones per kill, but you'll get the most per hour.

Takllin · July 2015

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Add friendly fire to Cyrodiil. Boom, zergs gone.

No.

Takllin · July 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Am I alone in my thinking the only players around here trying to force their playstyle onto others are the zerglings themselves?

Your saying that in a post wanting there to be only solo/small groups in IC. There will be people who disagree and your saying that they are forcing their playstyle on others? on a thread that is trying to make only solo/small group in IC

I...I don't even...

If I'd speak freely I'd probably get this thread closed, so I don't.
Just know that ZOS clearly said IC is for small groups and eventually solo players if they dare, not zergs.

ZoS has never once said that IC is not for zergs. ZoS has said that IC will be more supportive of small groups (and when they say that they mean the dungeons).

Jessica Folsom said on Twitch chat zergs would not be effective as the rewards would be minimal in the IC.
Now from what happened in the past one would be naive to believe they'd manage to disincentivise zergballing, so players try to make suggestions to ensure success (as always).

Jules wrote: »

[...]
But this game was designed for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER, OPEN WORLD COMBAT. So everyone who QQ's about 24-man groups, the game does not support you. Sorry- but, logic outweighs your preferences. The max group amount is 24. Whether you prefer to play in 4,8,12,16,18 - or by yourself, all your decision. But none of that has as much weight as the fact that the game is literally designed to accept groups of 24. Now when people run 3,4 groups of 24 and coordinate all of these people in the same place, that's another story.
[...]

Neither does massive multiplayer have anything to do with zerging, nor is the IC open world.

Thats the same with AP, you gain less AP per kill depending on how many people are in your group, but 24 man groups if good players make the most AP per hour in the game, and it will be the same for stones. You might get less stones per kill, but you'll get the most per hour.

Assuming you are killing people who have stones...you do not just magically regenerate them.

ThePonzzz · July 2015

Takllin wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Add friendly fire to Cyrodiil. Boom, zergs gone.

No.

Yes. Make people actually use some sort of strategy.

Takllin · July 2015

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Add friendly fire to Cyrodiil. Boom, zergs gone.

No.

Yes. Make people actually use some sort of strategy.

You assume people aren't using strategy now...

That's a false assumption.

Again, no.