Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion (just fyi the escape portion of bolt escape is the whole reason it is being nerfed). Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

The only person in our discussion that is clueless is you.
I listed 15 or so ways POST UPDATE to counter this "imbalanced" ability you are whining about. As I stated above, I play a Sorc and I don't have a problem with Cloak. I am also a competent player who makes use of abilities that are hard counters to what whiners refer to as "overpowered" "broken" and "imbalanced" or whatever term or phrases they toss around while complaining.

What's really strange is Streak/BoL has few ways to stop it and yet for some reason your feelings are hurt and feel the need to elevate another classes ability to Bolt status. This is not only petty but dishonest. There are no hard counters to Streak. Don't get me wrong, I hate the nerf. The worst thing about it is people with attitudes like your own (ignorant, lazy, and myopic), whined endlessly about an ability and got it nerfed. So what, you feel like joining the mob of sluggards? You remind me of a petulant child who becomes bitter and jealous because another child is happy playing with a toy you don't have. So you kick and scream and get that child's toy taken away or given to you. This is essentially what you stated above.

Again, you have a toolchest of abilities to hard counter this ability and you are too lazy or self absorbed to put one on your bar? That's really sad.

Since you side stepped answering whether Cloak without Detect Pots is OP or not, I can only assume you think it will be alright and as i feared, you are clueless. Further proof of your inability to see reason is you keep harping on all these awesome cloak counters you've listed which are all just about useless in stopping the escape portion of cloak. Hard counters left and right for cloak, but of course in your opinion, charges aren't a hard counter to bolt escape... That's a good one. I look forward to your long winded response where you think up of new insults (petty, dishonest, ignorant, lazy, myopic, sluggard, petulant child, self absorbed - you really are a true master of being an uppity internet nerd) . I know you really want cloak to go into this next update as is planned, but trust me, you will pay for it later.

@DDuke I enjoyed the video man. I also like that you continue to change things up each video. It's nice to watch people use different styles of play and achieve similar results.

damn erock, you sound like you want everything nerfed and sorcs buffed. compensating for a lack of something here? o.O

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

The only person in our discussion that is clueless is you.
I listed 15 or so ways POST UPDATE to counter this "imbalanced" ability you are whining about. As I stated above, I play a Sorc and I don't have a problem with Cloak. I am also a competent player who makes use of abilities that are hard counters to what whiners refer to as "overpowered" "broken" and "imbalanced" or whatever term or phrases they toss around while complaining.

What's really strange is Streak/BoL has few ways to stop it and yet for some reason your feelings are hurt and feel the need to elevate another classes ability to Bolt status. This is not only petty but dishonest. There are no hard counters to Streak. Don't get me wrong, I hate the nerf. The worst thing about it is people with attitudes like your own (ignorant, lazy, and myopic), whined endlessly about an ability and got it nerfed. So what, you feel like joining the mob of sluggards? You remind me of a petulant child who becomes bitter and jealous because another child is happy playing with a toy you don't have. So you kick and scream and get that child's toy taken away or given to you. This is essentially what you stated above.

Again, you have a toolchest of abilities to hard counter this ability and you are too lazy or self absorbed to put one on your bar? That's really sad.

Since you side stepped answering whether Cloak without Detect Pots is OP or not, I can only assume you think it will be alright and as i feared, you are clueless. Further proof of your inability to see reason is you keep harping on all these awesome cloak counters you've listed which are all just about useless in stopping the escape portion of cloak. Hard counters left and right for cloak, but of course in your opinion, charges aren't a hard counter to bolt escape... That's a good one. I look forward to your long winded response where you think up of new insults (petty, dishonest, ignorant, lazy, myopic, sluggard, petulant child, self absorbed - you really are a true master of being an uppity internet nerd) . I know you really want cloak to go into this next update as is planned, but trust me, you will pay for it later.

How did I side step your question? Time and time again I said cloak is not OP. I have 0 problem with cloak. In fact I gave you 15+ ways to counter cloak POST patch. You keep mentioning counters being useless in stopping the escape... wtf are you talking about? Do you even know how the skill works? The counters I mentioned ARE FOR the escape. They cloak, you use these abilities. Cloak only lasts a few seconds, you are not only ignorant, but selective on what you read regarding our dialogue. Longwinded response thinking up insults? Show some accountability, everything I said above is true by your own demonstration. Let the record show, I have given you 15 ways to counter cloak POST patch and you have ignored it. You have demonstrated yourself unfit for intelligent discussion. You just want to whine about something even though there are tons of things you can do. As I said before, you have a toolchest of abilities and you are too lazy or self-absorbed to put one on your bar. That's really pathetic.

Let the record show that your proposed 15 counters to using Cloak as an Escape are garbage and even more laughable when you yourself say Bolt Escape has no counters!

I'll rank your counters to the escape portion of Dark Cloak.....

• Totally Useless
  Lightning Splash, Mines, Overload, Volley, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Proximity Det, Necrotic Orb, and Flare. Hold on escaping NB while I let my mines arm!!
• Not gonna use Stamina skills to counter Cloak escape even if they may be useful
  Steel Tornado, Arrow Spray, Caltrops, Turn Undead. Steel Tornado has that awesome radius but useless to a magicka spec. Also no idea on TUrn Undead radius and eventhough caltrops are huge, what prevents that NB from moving out of the radius and Cloaking again immediately?
• Has some use in fighting a NB using Cloak offensively but useless for finding an escaping NB
  Radiant Mage Light, Boundless Storm. Both have such a small radius that you take one step in the wrong direction and that NB is gone.
• I have to use my ultimate to counter your spammable class ability and you can just Cloak again right after?
  Dawnbreaker, Bats
• Can work pretty well if you guess the right direction they're moving while hidden immediately
  Streak.

In my opinion, against a decent NB who actually knows how to use Cloak in the current live version of the game, you absolutely have to use Detect Pots or there is no way to prevent their escape. Maybe you don't use Cloak very well or have predictable escape directions when you are playing your NB? Maybe you play stamina NB so you can only use Cloak 2-3 times regularly so you don't see the issue with infinite cloaks? All I know is that there are many NB players out there right now reading these notes about the changes to Cloak and Detect Pots and they're laughing their butts off at what is coming. GTFO of here talking about intelligent discussion and accountability when you respond with gifs and mud slinging. Get off your high horse and back to your mom's basement you troll.

I gave you 15+ abilities off the top of my head that do aoe damage and break cloak. All of them situational. Yet you continue to whine and now propose a ranking system despite the situational application? How stupid are you? Some of these abilities are instant with a large enough radius to hit someone cloaked, if not use a gap closer. Calling these useless is ridiculous. More importantly you still have radiant magelight... I get you are too lazy and self important to put it on your bar. Funny how it works for me and several other players who have 0 issues with cloak. I am not going to waste any more time reasoning with someone deliberately being obtuse.

Erock25 wrote: »

In my opinion, against a decent NB who actually...

I don't care about your opinion, you have shown yourself an idiot. Keep whining, maybe like bolt escape, you will get something else nerfed into near uselessness.

@Master_Kas was correct about you. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt so I ignored his warning. You have certainly shown yourself unfit for any type of intelligent discussion. Trying to have a simple discussion with is like trying to nail a piece of jell-o to the wall.

Again you fail to see my point of view and resort to insults. I too wish you dropped the conversation long ago like I asked you to, but noooo you think your opinion is more important than someone else's opinion so you had to puff out your chest and drop a never ending list of insults like that would help you win the argument. All I can say is remember this exchange we had when the forums are flooded with non-NB tears for months after Imperial City is released.

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

The only person in our discussion that is clueless is you.
I listed 15 or so ways POST UPDATE to counter this "imbalanced" ability you are whining about. As I stated above, I play a Sorc and I don't have a problem with Cloak. I am also a competent player who makes use of abilities that are hard counters to what whiners refer to as "overpowered" "broken" and "imbalanced" or whatever term or phrases they toss around while complaining.

What's really strange is Streak/BoL has few ways to stop it and yet for some reason your feelings are hurt and feel the need to elevate another classes ability to Bolt status. This is not only petty but dishonest. There are no hard counters to Streak. Don't get me wrong, I hate the nerf. The worst thing about it is people with attitudes like your own (ignorant, lazy, and myopic), whined endlessly about an ability and got it nerfed. So what, you feel like joining the mob of sluggards? You remind me of a petulant child who becomes bitter and jealous because another child is happy playing with a toy you don't have. So you kick and scream and get that child's toy taken away or given to you. This is essentially what you stated above.

Again, you have a toolchest of abilities to hard counter this ability and you are too lazy or self absorbed to put one on your bar? That's really sad.

Since you side stepped answering whether Cloak without Detect Pots is OP or not, I can only assume you think it will be alright and as i feared, you are clueless. Further proof of your inability to see reason is you keep harping on all these awesome cloak counters you've listed which are all just about useless in stopping the escape portion of cloak. Hard counters left and right for cloak, but of course in your opinion, charges aren't a hard counter to bolt escape... That's a good one. I look forward to your long winded response where you think up of new insults (petty, dishonest, ignorant, lazy, myopic, sluggard, petulant child, self absorbed - you really are a true master of being an uppity internet nerd) . I know you really want cloak to go into this next update as is planned, but trust me, you will pay for it later.

How did I side step your question? Time and time again I said cloak is not OP. I have 0 problem with cloak. In fact I gave you 15+ ways to counter cloak POST patch. You keep mentioning counters being useless in stopping the escape... wtf are you talking about? Do you even know how the skill works? The counters I mentioned ARE FOR the escape. They cloak, you use these abilities. Cloak only lasts a few seconds, you are not only ignorant, but selective on what you read regarding our dialogue. Longwinded response thinking up insults? Show some accountability, everything I said above is true by your own demonstration. Let the record show, I have given you 15 ways to counter cloak POST patch and you have ignored it. You have demonstrated yourself unfit for intelligent discussion. You just want to whine about something even though there are tons of things you can do. As I said before, you have a toolchest of abilities and you are too lazy or self-absorbed to put one on your bar. That's really pathetic.

Let the record show that your proposed 15 counters to using Cloak as an Escape are garbage and even more laughable when you yourself say Bolt Escape has no counters!

I'll rank your counters to the escape portion of Dark Cloak.....

• Totally Useless
  Lightning Splash, Mines, Overload, Volley, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Proximity Det, Necrotic Orb, and Flare. Hold on escaping NB while I let my mines arm!!
• Not gonna use Stamina skills to counter Cloak escape even if they may be useful
  Steel Tornado, Arrow Spray, Caltrops, Turn Undead. Steel Tornado has that awesome radius but useless to a magicka spec. Also no idea on TUrn Undead radius and eventhough caltrops are huge, what prevents that NB from moving out of the radius and Cloaking again immediately?
• Has some use in fighting a NB using Cloak offensively but useless for finding an escaping NB
  Radiant Mage Light, Boundless Storm. Both have such a small radius that you take one step in the wrong direction and that NB is gone.
• I have to use my ultimate to counter your spammable class ability and you can just Cloak again right after?
  Dawnbreaker, Bats
• Can work pretty well if you guess the right direction they're moving while hidden immediately
  Streak.

In my opinion, against a decent NB who actually knows how to use Cloak in the current live version of the game, you absolutely have to use Detect Pots or there is no way to prevent their escape. Maybe you don't use Cloak very well or have predictable escape directions when you are playing your NB? Maybe you play stamina NB so you can only use Cloak 2-3 times regularly so you don't see the issue with infinite cloaks? All I know is that there are many NB players out there right now reading these notes about the changes to Cloak and Detect Pots and they're laughing their butts off at what is coming. GTFO of here talking about intelligent discussion and accountability when you respond with gifs and mud slinging. Get off your high horse and back to your mom's basement you troll.

I gave you 15+ abilities off the top of my head that do aoe damage and break cloak. All of them situational. Yet you continue to whine and now propose a ranking system despite the situational application? How stupid are you? Some of these abilities are instant with a large enough radius to hit someone cloaked, if not use a gap closer. Calling these useless is ridiculous. More importantly you still have radiant magelight... I get you are too lazy and self important to put it on your bar. Funny how it works for me and several other players who have 0 issues with cloak. I am not going to waste any more time reasoning with someone deliberately being obtuse.

And now the NB uses Shadow Image. Only Caltrops on the shadow could give you a chance to find the NB again in some situations. Of course, you can't use it then anywhere else, allowing the NB to escape either way...

lol every good nb uses image in open world -.-

Xael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

The only person in our discussion that is clueless is you.
I listed 15 or so ways POST UPDATE to counter this "imbalanced" ability you are whining about. As I stated above, I play a Sorc and I don't have a problem with Cloak. I am also a competent player who makes use of abilities that are hard counters to what whiners refer to as "overpowered" "broken" and "imbalanced" or whatever term or phrases they toss around while complaining.

What's really strange is Streak/BoL has few ways to stop it and yet for some reason your feelings are hurt and feel the need to elevate another classes ability to Bolt status. This is not only petty but dishonest. There are no hard counters to Streak. Don't get me wrong, I hate the nerf. The worst thing about it is people with attitudes like your own (ignorant, lazy, and myopic), whined endlessly about an ability and got it nerfed. So what, you feel like joining the mob of sluggards? You remind me of a petulant child who becomes bitter and jealous because another child is happy playing with a toy you don't have. So you kick and scream and get that child's toy taken away or given to you. This is essentially what you stated above.

Again, you have a toolchest of abilities to hard counter this ability and you are too lazy or self absorbed to put one on your bar? That's really sad.

Since you side stepped answering whether Cloak without Detect Pots is OP or not, I can only assume you think it will be alright and as i feared, you are clueless. Further proof of your inability to see reason is you keep harping on all these awesome cloak counters you've listed which are all just about useless in stopping the escape portion of cloak. Hard counters left and right for cloak, but of course in your opinion, charges aren't a hard counter to bolt escape... That's a good one. I look forward to your long winded response where you think up of new insults (petty, dishonest, ignorant, lazy, myopic, sluggard, petulant child, self absorbed - you really are a true master of being an uppity internet nerd) . I know you really want cloak to go into this next update as is planned, but trust me, you will pay for it later.

How did I side step your question? Time and time again I said cloak is not OP. I have 0 problem with cloak. In fact I gave you 15+ ways to counter cloak POST patch. You keep mentioning counters being useless in stopping the escape... wtf are you talking about? Do you even know how the skill works? The counters I mentioned ARE FOR the escape. They cloak, you use these abilities. Cloak only lasts a few seconds, you are not only ignorant, but selective on what you read regarding our dialogue. Longwinded response thinking up insults? Show some accountability, everything I said above is true by your own demonstration. Let the record show, I have given you 15 ways to counter cloak POST patch and you have ignored it. You have demonstrated yourself unfit for intelligent discussion. You just want to whine about something even though there are tons of things you can do. As I said before, you have a toolchest of abilities and you are too lazy or self-absorbed to put one on your bar. That's really pathetic.

Let the record show that your proposed 15 counters to using Cloak as an Escape are garbage and even more laughable when you yourself say Bolt Escape has no counters!

I'll rank your counters to the escape portion of Dark Cloak.....

• Totally Useless
  Lightning Splash, Mines, Overload, Volley, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Proximity Det, Necrotic Orb, and Flare. Hold on escaping NB while I let my mines arm!!
• Not gonna use Stamina skills to counter Cloak escape even if they may be useful
  Steel Tornado, Arrow Spray, Caltrops, Turn Undead. Steel Tornado has that awesome radius but useless to a magicka spec. Also no idea on TUrn Undead radius and eventhough caltrops are huge, what prevents that NB from moving out of the radius and Cloaking again immediately?
• Has some use in fighting a NB using Cloak offensively but useless for finding an escaping NB
  Radiant Mage Light, Boundless Storm. Both have such a small radius that you take one step in the wrong direction and that NB is gone.
• I have to use my ultimate to counter your spammable class ability and you can just Cloak again right after?
  Dawnbreaker, Bats
• Can work pretty well if you guess the right direction they're moving while hidden immediately
  Streak.

In my opinion, against a decent NB who actually knows how to use Cloak in the current live version of the game, you absolutely have to use Detect Pots or there is no way to prevent their escape. Maybe you don't use Cloak very well or have predictable escape directions when you are playing your NB? Maybe you play stamina NB so you can only use Cloak 2-3 times regularly so you don't see the issue with infinite cloaks? All I know is that there are many NB players out there right now reading these notes about the changes to Cloak and Detect Pots and they're laughing their butts off at what is coming. GTFO of here talking about intelligent discussion and accountability when you respond with gifs and mud slinging. Get off your high horse and back to your mom's basement you troll.

I gave you 15+ abilities off the top of my head that do aoe damage and break cloak. All of them situational. Yet you continue to whine and now propose a ranking system despite the situational application? How stupid are you? Some of these abilities are instant with a large enough radius to hit someone cloaked, if not use a gap closer. Calling these useless is ridiculous. More importantly you still have radiant magelight... I get you are too lazy and self important to put it on your bar. Funny how it works for me and several other players who have 0 issues with cloak. I am not going to waste any more time reasoning with someone deliberately being obtuse.

And now the NB uses Shadow Image. Only Caltrops on the shadow could give you a chance to find the NB again in some situations. Of course, you can't use it then anywhere else, allowing the NB to escape either way...

I don't have an issue catching NBs using cloak. This is without potions simply relying on RML. I could perhaps see the problem if you keep the NB at a ranged safe distance and allow him to cloak and move freely, however this is where people err. I close distance and keep the forward pressure. As a sorc I have 2 ways of closing distance and make use of them. When fighting a NB I know they can cloak out, so I keep them close. Keeping them at range is folly.

Regarding Shadow Image I rarely ever see any good NBs using it. While it's a fun ability and can be slippery at times, most NBs don't have the luxury of slotting it due to more important skills.
You are going to find rock paper scissors in a lot of pvp, what people are asking for is a complete shutdown of a skill and that's just unacceptable. Whether it be Bolt Escape, Cloak, or any class defining ability, asking for a blanket nerf is just wrong and paves the way for future hamfisted changes

More important skills than shadow image?
In my opinion it´s easy on of the best abilitys ingame.
Thanks to Shadow Image i can easily outmaneuver ANY group or player, hold groups at specific places and survive longer than any other class out there.
Rezzing People? Get attention, place shadow on corpse, run away and port back to rez. 1vX? Place the shadow on rocks etc. and split the group, then kill one by one.
If i could choose between Shadow Image or Cloak, I´d go with Shadow Image all the time.

Soulac wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But ZOS sitting here like, "I'm not so sure Cloak and NB are powerful enough."

Quoted for brilliance because Radiant Magelight and detect pots have never worked... oh wait.

This is the best escape in the game as well as the best offensive ability after the update removes Detect Pots ability to counter it.

What is Cloak?

Currently cloak is easily countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and detect pots. Considering Cloak is "invisibility", even post update it should be on the level with invis potions. Both are the same effect unless they change cloak to something other than invisibility. That said, any class in the game has access to an on the spot vanish. Both of which are countered by Radiant Magelight, Piercing Mark, and maybe Flare (wait for notes on whether Flare will work).

I honestly don't see what the fuss is over. Radiant Magelight is available to anyone, pops people out of stealth, makes sneak attacks do half damage, removes the stun completely (which screws over NBs concealed weapon stun from cloak) and even works on behalf of those near you.

A couple of things. Detect pots are not going to work on cloak in the next update. All the NB scream RADIANT MAGELIGHT but that thing has a terrible radius and only works against the offensive portion of cloak instead of the escape portion. Bringing up piercing mark is like me saying don't nerf bolt escape because of bolt escape ... do you see the problem with that? Flare is god awful slow and 100% useless. You are honestly comparing Cloak with Invis Pots? You know pots have a cooldown, right?

Regarding detect potions, so what? A potion that damn near rendered a core ability useless should be redesigned. I can't tell you the last time a NB gave me the slip.

Ok first off, I main a Sorc. I use RML and I have 0 issue with it. The radius is fine and I pull people out of stealth CONSTANTLY. Do you just stand still in PvP and let people initiate on you?
Secondly, even in the upcoming patch, AOE will still break Dark Cloak. Last I knew, you are a Sorc. Please tell me you are smart enough to use Boundless Storm. Are you not aware that you will uncloak a NB with this?
You also have:
Lightning Splash, Streak, Mines, (maybe Encase/Overload/Caltrops depending on patch), Steel Tornado, Volley, Arrow Spray, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Dawnbreaker, Proximity Detonation, Bat Swarm, Turn Undead (if they are Vamp/WW), Necrotic Orb... etc. Of course things are subject to change with time. Seems like an awful lot of tools at your disposal to use against Cloak.

Yes I am comparing Shadow Cloak to Invis Pots. You are aware they are the same thing? When you chug an invis pot (assuming you make use of these amazing potions) do you stand still on the tile you chugged it? Or do you use the Invis pots that give major expedition and haul ass? Seriously man, you are whining about nothing and not thinking clearly. Granted the potions have a cd and cloak doesn't, potions last a hell of a lot longer than Cloak does. You are comparing a few seconds (2-4 cloak) to over 15 (potion).
Regarding Flare... it's hardly useless and it's spammed like crazy for a reason.

Erock25 wrote: »

You all can leave it at this and not ruin DDuke's topic. Everyone sees what is coming with the update and IC gameplay and unless ZOS sees it too, NB will see the nerf chopping block soon.

You mean let you whine about something you either don't fully understand or are deliberately trying to deceive others into believing and have the last word? No thanks. As I stated above, there are plenty of ways to counter a NB and cloak, it's nobodies fault but yours if you decide to play poorly.

If your position is that Dark Cloak will be balanced in the next update with Detect Pots not working against it, you are clueless and a debate about the ability with you is pointless. Bolt Escape is being nerfed directly because high magicka regen Sorcs are spamming it and never letting themselves be out numbered and very nearly guaranteeing their escape. In the same patch, Dark Cloak will be become the best escape ability in the game regardless of the Bolt Escape nerf or not with the change to Detect Pots. If Bolt Escape is getting the 50% stacking cost increase, then Dark Cloak should get the same treatment.

The only person in our discussion that is clueless is you.
I listed 15 or so ways POST UPDATE to counter this "imbalanced" ability you are whining about. As I stated above, I play a Sorc and I don't have a problem with Cloak. I am also a competent player who makes use of abilities that are hard counters to what whiners refer to as "overpowered" "broken" and "imbalanced" or whatever term or phrases they toss around while complaining.

What's really strange is Streak/BoL has few ways to stop it and yet for some reason your feelings are hurt and feel the need to elevate another classes ability to Bolt status. This is not only petty but dishonest. There are no hard counters to Streak. Don't get me wrong, I hate the nerf. The worst thing about it is people with attitudes like your own (ignorant, lazy, and myopic), whined endlessly about an ability and got it nerfed. So what, you feel like joining the mob of sluggards? You remind me of a petulant child who becomes bitter and jealous because another child is happy playing with a toy you don't have. So you kick and scream and get that child's toy taken away or given to you. This is essentially what you stated above.

Again, you have a toolchest of abilities to hard counter this ability and you are too lazy or self absorbed to put one on your bar? That's really sad.

Since you side stepped answering whether Cloak without Detect Pots is OP or not, I can only assume you think it will be alright and as i feared, you are clueless. Further proof of your inability to see reason is you keep harping on all these awesome cloak counters you've listed which are all just about useless in stopping the escape portion of cloak. Hard counters left and right for cloak, but of course in your opinion, charges aren't a hard counter to bolt escape... That's a good one. I look forward to your long winded response where you think up of new insults (petty, dishonest, ignorant, lazy, myopic, sluggard, petulant child, self absorbed - you really are a true master of being an uppity internet nerd) . I know you really want cloak to go into this next update as is planned, but trust me, you will pay for it later.

How did I side step your question? Time and time again I said cloak is not OP. I have 0 problem with cloak. In fact I gave you 15+ ways to counter cloak POST patch. You keep mentioning counters being useless in stopping the escape... wtf are you talking about? Do you even know how the skill works? The counters I mentioned ARE FOR the escape. They cloak, you use these abilities. Cloak only lasts a few seconds, you are not only ignorant, but selective on what you read regarding our dialogue. Longwinded response thinking up insults? Show some accountability, everything I said above is true by your own demonstration. Let the record show, I have given you 15 ways to counter cloak POST patch and you have ignored it. You have demonstrated yourself unfit for intelligent discussion. You just want to whine about something even though there are tons of things you can do. As I said before, you have a toolchest of abilities and you are too lazy or self-absorbed to put one on your bar. That's really pathetic.

Let the record show that your proposed 15 counters to using Cloak as an Escape are garbage and even more laughable when you yourself say Bolt Escape has no counters!

I'll rank your counters to the escape portion of Dark Cloak.....

• Totally Useless
  Lightning Splash, Mines, Overload, Volley, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Proximity Det, Necrotic Orb, and Flare. Hold on escaping NB while I let my mines arm!!
• Not gonna use Stamina skills to counter Cloak escape even if they may be useful
  Steel Tornado, Arrow Spray, Caltrops, Turn Undead. Steel Tornado has that awesome radius but useless to a magicka spec. Also no idea on TUrn Undead radius and eventhough caltrops are huge, what prevents that NB from moving out of the radius and Cloaking again immediately?
• Has some use in fighting a NB using Cloak offensively but useless for finding an escaping NB
  Radiant Mage Light, Boundless Storm. Both have such a small radius that you take one step in the wrong direction and that NB is gone.
• I have to use my ultimate to counter your spammable class ability and you can just Cloak again right after?
  Dawnbreaker, Bats
• Can work pretty well if you guess the right direction they're moving while hidden immediately
  Streak.

In my opinion, against a decent NB who actually knows how to use Cloak in the current live version of the game, you absolutely have to use Detect Pots or there is no way to prevent their escape. Maybe you don't use Cloak very well or have predictable escape directions when you are playing your NB? Maybe you play stamina NB so you can only use Cloak 2-3 times regularly so you don't see the issue with infinite cloaks? All I know is that there are many NB players out there right now reading these notes about the changes to Cloak and Detect Pots and they're laughing their butts off at what is coming. GTFO of here talking about intelligent discussion and accountability when you respond with gifs and mud slinging. Get off your high horse and back to your mom's basement you troll.

I gave you 15+ abilities off the top of my head that do aoe damage and break cloak. All of them situational. Yet you continue to whine and now propose a ranking system despite the situational application? How stupid are you? Some of these abilities are instant with a large enough radius to hit someone cloaked, if not use a gap closer. Calling these useless is ridiculous. More importantly you still have radiant magelight... I get you are too lazy and self important to put it on your bar. Funny how it works for me and several other players who have 0 issues with cloak. I am not going to waste any more time reasoning with someone deliberately being obtuse.

And now the NB uses Shadow Image. Only Caltrops on the shadow could give you a chance to find the NB again in some situations. Of course, you can't use it then anywhere else, allowing the NB to escape either way...

I don't have an issue catching NBs using cloak. This is without potions simply relying on RML. I could perhaps see the problem if you keep the NB at a ranged safe distance and allow him to cloak and move freely, however this is where people err. I close distance and keep the forward pressure. As a sorc I have 2 ways of closing distance and make use of them. When fighting a NB I know they can cloak out, so I keep them close. Keeping them at range is folly.

Regarding Shadow Image I rarely ever see any good NBs using it. While it's a fun ability and can be slippery at times, most NBs don't have the luxury of slotting it due to more important skills.
You are going to find rock paper scissors in a lot of pvp, what people are asking for is a complete shutdown of a skill and that's just unacceptable. Whether it be Bolt Escape, Cloak, or any class defining ability, asking for a blanket nerf is just wrong and paves the way for future hamfisted changes

More important skills than shadow image?
In my opinion it´s easy on of the best abilitys ingame.
Thanks to Shadow Image i can easily outmaneuver ANY group or player, hold groups at specific places and survive longer than any other class out there.
Rezzing People? Get attention, place shadow on corpse, run away and port back to rez. 1vX? Place the shadow on rocks etc. and split the group, then kill one by one.
If i could choose between Shadow Image or Cloak, I´d go with Shadow Image all the time.

I didn't say the ability isn't good or useful. A lot of people have set builds where they can't fit the skill into it. Certain playstyles demand other abilities. I certainly don't have room for it unless I sack Vigor or RML and that's not gonna happen. Even @DDuke above shares my sentiments. Choosing between Cloak and SI, I would never choose SI. This is where we disagree.

earth_angel wrote: »

Not everyone can afford to have radiant magelight (you might want inner light if you are magicka build doing Vet DSA regularly). Also demanding to slot one skill to counter just one skill of one class is a lot to ask. My NB will be happy, my templar healer won't. We will see what comes out of PTS.

I don't need Inner Light on a Magicka build. I can already hit 35k+ Magicka without Inner Light. I don't care about PvE. I can use another class/character for that.

Demanding a skill slot to counter something is not a lot to ask. I find it peculiar people are willing to slot a Restoration Staff for one skill (healing ward) which is more than just a skill slot, its a skill and a weapon slot, just to make adjustments for something. Same goes for those who take Bow for the dodge roll move speed, or slot a 2h for Rally. Yet saying "you should make use of RML" people get real strange. It boggles the mind. That's like complaining about wearing a seatbelt so you don't get killed/maimed in an auto accident. Furthermore people seem to be very narrowminded when it comes to RML...(not directing this at you) it doesn't just "counter" one class, it prevents being insta gibbed by sneak attacks, gives Major Prophecy, removes the stun from sneak attacks and finds people in stealth. It also functions as a go-to toggle for MotG procs. Moreover it works on behalf of those near you. This is an invaluable ability if you are going to PvP.

Iyas wrote: »

Nice intro, good quality and good gankplaystyle without bow

BUT

I hate everything about this playstyle. Its not a shooter with insta gibbing. Its a mmo and ppl need the chance to react to everything. Dead in <1sec should not be in any mmo. You should not rewarded with extra dmg and a stun out of stealth. And flying blade need a more visible animation!

I guess you can hate this playstyle... but let's be honest here... he put up a video of him beating down god awful players. They have the reaction time of slugs, they rarely use appropriate counters to a stealth NB, ultimates aren't dropped. I mean this guy here is moving in stealth, while detected, while using food. His concept of resource management is at best lacking. I know this comes as me being a negative nancy here but let's not celebrate beating up on bad players. Go wreck some top-shelf DK's or a strong healer/dps/tank dps combo here before we start calling for the end of NB's. He wrecked players with the skill level of pve'rs, nothing more.

@Erock25 I would like to have a source about this detect pot change.