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How to counter 30k+ Shieldstacking Enemies?
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Healing Ward is available to everyone, and it does not always land on the caster. It should be powerful because to use it you need to have a resto staff on one bar. That's a sacrifice worthy of getting a decent heal on yourself or an ally.
It will always favor you over someone else.
If all else is equal yes...otherwise this almost never happens.
The person I duo with dies all the time because her healing ward lands on me instead of her when we're both damaged.
Perhaps Ward Ally would be the smarter choice then. Then she is always guaranteed the ward as well.:trollin:0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well considering a "realism/immursion" standpoint can a Shield burn ? i'd say about as much as it can bleed.
But making a shield immune to all fire DoTs would obviously be quite OP and shaft DKs at the same time (which i would like
).
I think we have to focus on achieving a balance here and not let the classic RP approach cloud our judgement.
At the moment twin slashes, which are the only skill (i can think of atm) are quite useless since every magicka build and quite some stamina builds (mostly temps and DKs) utilize damage shields to a certain extent, making bleed effects quite unreliable and not worth a slot. This is the same reason why axes see not a lot of play, since guranteed 5% more damage/ bugged maces/more crit are just more attractive and can be worked better into peoples builds.
I think shields should not prevent any additional skill effects CC, DoT or others, since they are an essential part of the reason people run the skill. Taking that away limits build diversity.
However status effects such as "burning" (which doesnt apply to dunmer for some reasons xP ), "chilled", "poisoned", which only provide a relatively minor benefit, should only be able when the attack actually damages the opponents health.
Why ? Because i feel like thats an interesting interaction, giving shields just a little bit more utility without affecting builds in a big way. Also afaik thats the way it works right now.
Well I think Balance could be achieved with a sort of paper/scissors/rock mentality which I enjoy.
Damage shields could take more damage from certain forms of damage and non from others. The same could be true of health.
I'm not an RPer at all but some realism is somewhat important to me. Bleed effects should probably be buffed in general to compensate for its weakness to damage shield.
Good points overall though.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Healing Ward is available to everyone, and it does not always land on the caster. It should be powerful because to use it you need to have a resto staff on one bar. That's a sacrifice worthy of getting a decent heal on yourself or an ally.
It will always favor you over someone else.
If all else is equal yes...otherwise this almost never happens.
The person I duo with dies all the time because her healing ward lands on me instead of her when we're both damaged.
Perhaps Ward Ally would be the smarter choice then. Then she is always guaranteed the ward as well.
In many situations perhaps, but more common I think the heal itself is far more important after the shield expires. I've found Ward ally to be far too situation to be useful. I think it is far better for large group/zerg play than it is for small group combat as in small group combat more often only 1 person is being targeted.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm not crying, I'm doing perfectly fine without hardened ward. But this one is all the way much better than annulment, you cant deny it. Was just an answer to the guy saying that annulment is "the best shield" with healing ward. Healing ward is probably the best shield indeed, annulment is very good but not close to hardened ward.
sorry but the best shields are anulment and healing ward and both are available to everybody.
wich health nerfs?maysonet_ESO wrote: »In 1.7 (as far as we can tell):
No more permablock.
No more spamming dodge roll.
Shields can still be spammed.
Shield strength is only getting a very minor reduction in proportion to the health/damage nerfs. However, Healing Ward is taking a big hit, so it's unknown how large of an effect that will end up being.
the changes make armor much more worthwhile (if they manage to get pierce to a proper but still worthwhile value) as health in cyrodiil is not touched maximising your healthpool via passiv mitigation wich light armor doesent provide at all survivability is massivle pushed away from light armor users...IxSTALKERxI wrote: »All shields in the game should scale off maximum health. If you want large shields put points into health. If you want more damage put points into magicka. You shouldn't get the best offence and defence in the game from one stat.
how would that work for stamina.... they use the stamina for defense also
I agree but it wouldnt really be fair then.
Of course it's not fair, but these defense mechanics are available for everyone, get a nerf with the next patch and got skills bypassing it.
Also if you get to stun him, he won't have any defense stuff up, unlike shields which stay until they're broken.
you would then need to negate any armor mitigation while beeing stunned too.
Okay, then I want to be immune to critical hits as well.
Shields: Precast defense, still active if stunned
Dodge: active defense, not active if stunned
Dodge is available for everyone, good shields are not.
Of course Stamina builds are able to use dodge quite often, but with the next patch you won't be able to spam dodge anymore, the only defense of stamina builds.
Magicka Builds can dodge as well, not as often but still enough and in addition to that you can spam shields without any penalty. Also you probably have some of your Shield left while stunned and you're basically immune to critical hits.
In 1v1 or even 1v2: Shields > roll
In larger fights it depends on the enemy zerg I'd say. Sometimes I die in mid roll since dodge is such a reliable defense ability.
I stopped counting how often I got hit by something in the middle of a roll and now tell me how often your shields doesn't work and I don't mean a visual bug..
Let's wait for the next patch first tho.
but i do agree lets wait for the PTS atleast to gather some first hand experience especially in regards of other changes (to abilities) that are applied.
Stamina: amount of possible dodge rolls is higher
Magicka: amount of possible Shield casts is higher
But the strength of roll stays the same, while shields are based on your magicka.
Both available for everybody, but the shields you named are only useful for Magicka builds and you're still able to roll and that as good as I do.
If you sacrifice some Magicka and invest some CP at the right spots you can achieve around 25 Dodge rolls per minute and that as Magicka build.
If I sacrifice my Stamina I could surely cast 25 shields, but it's not worth it at all.
Dodge is useful for everybody, shields are not.
In theory you can, but in fact, at least for magicka NB, a build with 25 dodgeroll/min isnt a viable build. I tried a medium armor setup with drinks, was cool to dodgeroll a lot but I lost ~1k dmg TT (7k less magicka because you want 20k hp with drinks and 170 spell dmg because eyes of mara instead of martial knowledge) on my concelead weapon, no spell penetration from light armor and I couldnt kill anything.
Shields have a lot of advantages over rolldodge, rolldodge has a lot of advantages too... I dont think a discussion about which one is the more OP would end.
My theorycrafted build, even as khajiit, got a Concealed Tooltip of 6.223 Dmg while still using Drinks.
That´s more than I got on my DPS Stamina Build without Whitestrake..
Unbuffed?doubt it. The setup I tried was 4 eyes of mara 4 magnus 4 healers 5m 1l 1h. With this setup drinks, atronach and 3 reduc cost I was already running oom quite fast and 5.1k tooltip unbuffed (with 4mk instead of eyes of mara and food I got 6k). You could get more sd by switching healer for cyro light+adroitness or even sd glyph but then youre oom way too fast. I dont see any other setup that could give you more sd with a decent magicka managment and enough hp (imo you need at least 20k in cyrodiil, thats why magicka is so low with drinks: 27k)
If its buffed then youre doing something wrong on your dps build :P
6.3k buffed Concealed tool tip
30k Magicka as Khajiit, around 34k as Dunmer.
20k Health
2.2k Stamreg as Khajiit
2.5k Magreg
In total you get more resources per minute than my current Stamina Build gets.
Also no bufffood usage, so tooltip is ofc much lower since I need to spend points on health as well.
My surprise attack tooltip on my Stamina whitestrake build is 5.3k buffed, with skirmisher and flawless dawnbreaker instead I get to around 6.3k as well.
In order to get defense I sacrifice dmg and in my opinion 6.3k tooltip is enough since nirn gets nerfed.
Out of curiousity, what gear setup do you use to reach that? I guess you calculated with ~500cp, I dont see how you can get 20k hp 30k magicka otherwise (without emp hp bonus). Also give unbuffed tooltip and regen pls, idk which buffs you include (relentless focus,major sorcellery, invis bonus with/without khajiit passive, pots...) and I only remember my tool tips unbuffed anyway.
Edit: I dont think 6.3k buffed is enough with a magicka dw build btw. I guess its around 5.4-5.5k unbuffed which is less than what I got on my sb setup. Even agaisnt non-nirn players I have trouble to kill with sb, because harness, cp passive agaisnt magick dmg and all the crap. Also, keep in mind your light attacks hit for 600 instead of 2-3k and your bash for 400 instead of 1.5k-2k + you have no spell penetration. Basically your rotation with a stam whitestrake setup deals much more dmg than this hybrid setup, even if you dont use bash cancel.
494 CP, correct.
I got 430 right now, probably around 500 until patch lunches.
6.3k Tool Tip after Nirn nerf should be enough in my opinion.
Stamina/Magicka Reg bit less than i got in my memory.. :P
4 pc Magnus
4 pc Healer
4 pc Martial
2450 Buffed, but unstealthed/cloaked Spelldmg
2085 Stamina Reg
2417 Magicka Reg
30538 Magicka
6247 Tooltip Concealed
Keep in mind that these stats don´t include any good racials. My Racials are probably the worst ever for Magicka Builds since i ain´t got anything except 10% dmg boost, which is good for burst but overall just a DPS loss (except invis bats)
Basically its the same setup as mine but you use drinks thanks to cp^^ but no medium armor so you cant really offer much dodgerolls, you got 9k stamina and you want to always save 4k stam in case you got cced. With such magicka regen you can go reduce rolldodge cost glyphs tho... The problem with a low stamina pool is that you cant spam dodgeroll 3-4 times in a row (what you sometimes have to do as NB) even with a high regen.
Anyway this kind of build starts to be viable when you're close to 500 cp, a number reached by very few yet, and at some point, anything works with enough cp anyway
Thats why I said it doesnt work : sure, it does for those who grinded all day for months and it will work for the average pvp player when those will have reached this cap, but atm it doesnt.
You make it sounds like any magicka player can dodgeroll 25times/min with a viable build, no they cant lol, they gotta grind 200 hours before.
1 Cost Reduction Glyph would cost me 8 possible concealed casts while i gain 2 additional dodge rolls per minute.
With my build as said above i could dodge 29 Times or break 21 Stuns, considering that i choke potions like i do on Stamina.
I´d run one medium armor part as well, which brings me up to 10.6k Stamina.
But with 5 light and 2.4k magicka regen I dont see how you can be oom anyway, and this even without pots (I'm already fine with 1.5k magicka regen). I guess its a matter of taste, but I would rather go reduce dodgeroll cost or spell dmg.@Ezareth vemon arrow acts like destructive reach in that the CC/interrupt only applies if it actually damages the enmies healthbar. So VAing a temp with blazing shield/sorc with hardened wont do anything to protecr you unless you have enough damage to break the remaining shield.
@Ahzek
Are you sure about that? I swear I interrupt Templars spamming radiant on me all the time with Blazing shield up but I suppose you could be correct. I've always considered the bow the worst weapon, the only weapon skill I ever enjoyed on it was Venom Arrow.
I swear I used to be interrupted by NBs with bows all the time while channeling one ability or another and I never let my shields down.
Regardless I enjoy Sword & Board more as it has far more utility in most situations.
I'm not crying, I'm doing perfectly fine without hardened ward. But this one is all the way much better than annulment, you cant deny it. Was just an answer to the guy saying that annulment is "the best shield" with healing ward. Healing ward is probably the best shield indeed, annulment is very good but not close to hardened ward.
sorry but the best shields are anulment and healing ward and both are available to everybody.
wich health nerfs?maysonet_ESO wrote: »In 1.7 (as far as we can tell):
No more permablock.
No more spamming dodge roll.
Shields can still be spammed.
Shield strength is only getting a very minor reduction in proportion to the health/damage nerfs. However, Healing Ward is taking a big hit, so it's unknown how large of an effect that will end up being.
the changes make armor much more worthwhile (if they manage to get pierce to a proper but still worthwhile value) as health in cyrodiil is not touched maximising your healthpool via passiv mitigation wich light armor doesent provide at all survivability is massivle pushed away from light armor users...IxSTALKERxI wrote: »All shields in the game should scale off maximum health. If you want large shields put points into health. If you want more damage put points into magicka. You shouldn't get the best offence and defence in the game from one stat.
how would that work for stamina.... they use the stamina for defense also
I agree but it wouldnt really be fair then.
Of course it's not fair, but these defense mechanics are available for everyone, get a nerf with the next patch and got skills bypassing it.
Also if you get to stun him, he won't have any defense stuff up, unlike shields which stay until they're broken.
you would then need to negate any armor mitigation while beeing stunned too.
Okay, then I want to be immune to critical hits as well.
Shields: Precast defense, still active if stunned
Dodge: active defense, not active if stunned
Dodge is available for everyone, good shields are not.
Of course Stamina builds are able to use dodge quite often, but with the next patch you won't be able to spam dodge anymore, the only defense of stamina builds.
Magicka Builds can dodge as well, not as often but still enough and in addition to that you can spam shields without any penalty. Also you probably have some of your Shield left while stunned and you're basically immune to critical hits.
In 1v1 or even 1v2: Shields > roll
In larger fights it depends on the enemy zerg I'd say. Sometimes I die in mid roll since dodge is such a reliable defense ability.
I stopped counting how often I got hit by something in the middle of a roll and now tell me how often your shields doesn't work and I don't mean a visual bug..
Let's wait for the next patch first tho.
but i do agree lets wait for the PTS atleast to gather some first hand experience especially in regards of other changes (to abilities) that are applied.
Stamina: amount of possible dodge rolls is higher
Magicka: amount of possible Shield casts is higher
But the strength of roll stays the same, while shields are based on your magicka.
Both available for everybody, but the shields you named are only useful for Magicka builds and you're still able to roll and that as good as I do.
If you sacrifice some Magicka and invest some CP at the right spots you can achieve around 25 Dodge rolls per minute and that as Magicka build.
If I sacrifice my Stamina I could surely cast 25 shields, but it's not worth it at all.
Dodge is useful for everybody, shields are not.
In theory you can, but in fact, at least for magicka NB, a build with 25 dodgeroll/min isnt a viable build. I tried a medium armor setup with drinks, was cool to dodgeroll a lot but I lost ~1k dmg TT (7k less magicka because you want 20k hp with drinks and 170 spell dmg because eyes of mara instead of martial knowledge) on my concelead weapon, no spell penetration from light armor and I couldnt kill anything.
Shields have a lot of advantages over rolldodge, rolldodge has a lot of advantages too... I dont think a discussion about which one is the more OP would end.
My theorycrafted build, even as khajiit, got a Concealed Tooltip of 6.223 Dmg while still using Drinks.
That´s more than I got on my DPS Stamina Build without Whitestrake..
Unbuffed?doubt it. The setup I tried was 4 eyes of mara 4 magnus 4 healers 5m 1l 1h. With this setup drinks, atronach and 3 reduc cost I was already running oom quite fast and 5.1k tooltip unbuffed (with 4mk instead of eyes of mara and food I got 6k). You could get more sd by switching healer for cyro light+adroitness or even sd glyph but then youre oom way too fast. I dont see any other setup that could give you more sd with a decent magicka managment and enough hp (imo you need at least 20k in cyrodiil, thats why magicka is so low with drinks: 27k)
If its buffed then youre doing something wrong on your dps build :P
6.3k buffed Concealed tool tip
30k Magicka as Khajiit, around 34k as Dunmer.
20k Health
2.2k Stamreg as Khajiit
2.5k Magreg
In total you get more resources per minute than my current Stamina Build gets.
Also no bufffood usage, so tooltip is ofc much lower since I need to spend points on health as well.
My surprise attack tooltip on my Stamina whitestrake build is 5.3k buffed, with skirmisher and flawless dawnbreaker instead I get to around 6.3k as well.
In order to get defense I sacrifice dmg and in my opinion 6.3k tooltip is enough since nirn gets nerfed.
Out of curiousity, what gear setup do you use to reach that? I guess you calculated with ~500cp, I dont see how you can get 20k hp 30k magicka otherwise (without emp hp bonus). Also give unbuffed tooltip and regen pls, idk which buffs you include (relentless focus,major sorcellery, invis bonus with/without khajiit passive, pots...) and I only remember my tool tips unbuffed anyway.
Edit: I dont think 6.3k buffed is enough with a magicka dw build btw. I guess its around 5.4-5.5k unbuffed which is less than what I got on my sb setup. Even agaisnt non-nirn players I have trouble to kill with sb, because harness, cp passive agaisnt magick dmg and all the crap. Also, keep in mind your light attacks hit for 600 instead of 2-3k and your bash for 400 instead of 1.5k-2k + you have no spell penetration. Basically your rotation with a stam whitestrake setup deals much more dmg than this hybrid setup, even if you dont use bash cancel.
494 CP, correct.
I got 430 right now, probably around 500 until patch lunches.
6.3k Tool Tip after Nirn nerf should be enough in my opinion.
Stamina/Magicka Reg bit less than i got in my memory.. :P
4 pc Magnus
4 pc Healer
4 pc Martial
2450 Buffed, but unstealthed/cloaked Spelldmg
2085 Stamina Reg
2417 Magicka Reg
30538 Magicka
6247 Tooltip Concealed
Keep in mind that these stats don´t include any good racials. My Racials are probably the worst ever for Magicka Builds since i ain´t got anything except 10% dmg boost, which is good for burst but overall just a DPS loss (except invis bats)
Basically its the same setup as mine but you use drinks thanks to cp^^ but no medium armor so you cant really offer much dodgerolls, you got 9k stamina and you want to always save 4k stam in case you got cced. With such magicka regen you can go reduce rolldodge cost glyphs tho... The problem with a low stamina pool is that you cant spam dodgeroll 3-4 times in a row (what you sometimes have to do as NB) even with a high regen.
Anyway this kind of build starts to be viable when you're close to 500 cp, a number reached by very few yet, and at some point, anything works with enough cp anyway Thats why I said it doesnt work : sure, it does for those who grinded all day for months and it will work for the average pvp player when those will have reached this cap, but atm it doesnt.
You make it sounds like any magicka player can dodgeroll 25times/min with a viable build, no they cant lol, they gotta grind 200 hours before.
I think with enough CP Medium armor becomes by far the best choice for Most classes with the way things stand. You can craft a build that is magicka based with "unlimited" stamina regen or you can craft a build that is stamina based with "unlimited" magicka regen. I say unlimited because you'll never run out of either in any situation where you manage the resource.
I think the same actually, thats why I was surprised soulac wasnt using medium armor in his build. I had already a medium armor sb (bloc+ bash cancel op) magicka build ready for the day I reach 700 cp, sadly I will never reach that before 1.7 since I wont be ingame for a while
~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel0 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
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Well I think Balance could be achieved with a sort of paper/scissors/rock mentality which I enjoy.
Damage shields could take more damage from certain forms of damage and non from others. The same could be true of health.
I'm not an RPer at all but some realism is somewhat important to me. Bleed effects should probably be buffed in general to compensate for its weakness to damage shield.
Good points overall though.
I agree that a rock paper scissors balance could work out concerning bleed and damage shields. However currently there is only this one bleed ability in the game. And this one ability is not quite powerful considering its actual impact in a PvP environment. It certainly is an interesting ability with a good damage per cast plus the special property of proccing 2 enchantments per cast. The morphs also sound interesting and both could add another layer to a build providing either more sustain or a snare, but the ability is simply taken out of the picture due to its ineffectiveness against a lot of targets.
In my opinon, IF we were to take a rock paper scissors route twin slashes would need a buff to warrant it being used while it has a chance to be almost useless. Another option would be adding other abilities with bleed effects to fulfill other roles, however they are likely to suffer from similar problems.
Buffing twin slashes to the extent where it could warrant a slot for open PvP would be rather difficult though and could cause sever balance concernc i believe.
I personally would pump up the healing of blood craze to allow non 2Handed users a decent self heal over time that could provide good sustain in combination with vigor. However that could cause issues with stam builds using all three of these healing skills. With the relatively short duration of blood craze that might not be much of an issue though.
For rending slashes I would remove the snare completly and instead change the damage type to something not affected my shields. "Heated Blades" could make a comeback with a fire dot instead of a bleed, which would also allow PvE players the use of it in all encounters and not make it useless against certain enemy types.
Thats all from me on this topic though since I feel I have derailed the thread quite a bit going into DW issues.
Edit: Maybe changing bleed mechanics in a way that they can not be applied on shields, but then are not mitigated by them if they actually got through might work and in fact turn bleeds into a powerful tool against shield users.Edited by Ahzek on July 22, 2015 7:37PMJo'Khaljor1 -
Pobeda✭
You are wrong. Now sorc can freely stack 32k hp whith 150-200 cp total. Whith full hp. Just stand and stacking. I see some individuals that stack shields to 42k+ whith full hp.It seems you came close to killing him if he actually reached 50k shields. At least 20-25k of that shield must have been Healing Ward with 1% HP left. Your topic should really be how to counter 35k shield stacking NB or 42k shield stacking Temp/DK too if we're being honest because that is all the extra shielding Sorc gets over the other classes if we are believing your 50k shields portion of the post.
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Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
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You are wrong. Now sorc can freely stack 32k hp whith 150-200 cp total. Whith full hp. Just stand and stacking. I see some individuals that stack shields to 42k+ whith full hp.It seems you came close to killing him if he actually reached 50k shields. At least 20-25k of that shield must have been Healing Ward with 1% HP left. Your topic should really be how to counter 35k shield stacking NB or 42k shield stacking Temp/DK too if we're being honest because that is all the extra shielding Sorc gets over the other classes if we are believing your 50k shields portion of the post.
For that you would surely need either barrier or an icredibly gimped pet build wich doesnt fare well in overall PvP (while being a quite strong one trick pony in duels).
If the above is not the case please enlighten me by outlining gear and abilites used. I always like to learn more.Jo'Khaljor0 -
Pobeda✭
Trust me - he run on pvp as god. Whith 42k it 42k hp pool of no dot, not critical, hp regen while active shiled. Try remove 42 shield (ok 30k if physical damage) for 1 second. If you not know his shield depend on max magicka. Max magicka rise max damage of skill. Whith this 42k shield he damage on 15-20k dps. So just kill him solo whith less 200 cp. He not need duels, couse it own all enemys whith 1-2 death for 4-5 hours. He not need rise his hands skill in duel. He just need 2 shot people whithout any hp damage to him.]
For that you would surely need either barrier or an icredibly gimped pet build wich doesnt fare well in overall PvP (while being a quite strong one trick pony in duels).
If the above is not the case please enlighten me by outlining gear and abilites used. I always like to learn more.
PS - his 42k shield build not using barrier skill or restostaff shield.
Edited by Pobeda on July 23, 2015 9:08AM0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
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Trust me - he run on pvp as god. Whith 42k it 42k hp pool of no dot, not critical, hp regen while active shiled. Try remove 42 shield (ok 30k if physical damage) for 1 second. If you not know his shield depend on max magicka. Max magicka rise max damage of skill. Whith this 42k shield he damage on 15-20k dps. So just kill him solo whith less 200 cp. He not need duels, couse it own all enemys whith 1-2 death for 4-5 hours. He not need rise his hands skill in duel. He just need 2 shot people whithout any hp damage to him.]
For that you would surely need either barrier or an icredibly gimped pet build wich doesnt fare well in overall PvP (while being a quite strong one trick pony in duels).
If the above is not the case please enlighten me by outlining gear and abilites used. I always like to learn more.
PS - his 42k shield build not using barrier skill or restostaff shield.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -3 -
Pobeda✭Just go study Champion Point system. It not me - it ZOS made game where grinding overpower good hands in times.0
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What soulac means is that it is simply not mathematically possible to have one shield absorb 30k physical dmg that is NOT healing ward and without being emp.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭@Ezareth vemon arrow acts like destructive reach in that the CC/interrupt only applies if it actually damages the enmies healthbar. So VAing a temp with blazing shield/sorc with hardened wont do anything to protecr you unless you have enough damage to break the remaining shield.
Whoa. This just blew my mind, I always thought my venom arrow would just fail to interrupt randomly. I usually just chalk it up to to bugs or lag, not some quirky mechanics.First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last1 -
Pobeda✭
Who telling about 1 shield absorb? We telling about shield stacking. Full hp give only 3-4k maximum shield on high magicka, so it can`t be. This player not use ulta, couse it stack 42k shield in every time when he want and I see it stack it less then a 4 second. Or you think Barrier can be casted every 4 second? Or restoshield whith full hp can give 10k+ shield?What soulac means is that it is simply not mathematically possible to have one shield absorb 30k physical dmg that is NOT healing ward and without being emp.
And I not blind - we try kill this guy 7 minutes dps him. We try cc him every 6 second. But he don`t have stamina run out. And he just stand and selfshield stacking and breakfree. And after he just 2 shot us quick. It looks like mouse-cat gameplay... And one of us was very skillfull magicka dk. Even reflected skills don`t bother him. Couse 2 shoots on 25k magicka damage just spend 2/3 his shield. He restack it and 2 shots after...
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just go study Champion Point system. It not me - it ZOS made game where grinding overpower good hands in times.
Study the Champion System? I made a WHOLE Stat/Build Calculator inlcuding Champion System.
You won´t get a 30k Physical Dmg shield under normal conditions.
Ofc if you fall at like 10% Health, use Healiung Ward and Hardened Ward you´d get a really high one, but it has a short duration and mostly you won´t survive at 10%, you would rather die.
Also remember that you activate the global cooldown after each skill activate.
I made a quick calculation and you know how much Magicka and CP you´d need just to get a 18k Hardened Ward?
51.6k Magicka and 100 Pts in Bastion.
Heave fun achieving that while still being able to do anything else.
Maybe with >2k CP, but I´m too lazy to calculate that as well.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -3 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Healing Ward is available to everyone, and it does not always land on the caster. It should be powerful because to use it you need to have a resto staff on one bar. That's a sacrifice worthy of getting a decent heal on yourself or an ally.
It will always favor you over someone else.
If all else is equal yes...otherwise this almost never happens.
The person I duo with dies all the time because her healing ward lands on me instead of her when we're both damaged.
Perhaps Ward Ally would be the smarter choice then. Then she is always guaranteed the ward as well.
In many situations perhaps, but more common I think the heal itself is far more important after the shield expires. I've found Ward ally to be far too situation to be useful. I think it is far better for large group/zerg play than it is for small group combat as in small group combat more often only 1 person is being targeted.
I understand that. I use it as a heal, but I don't use it as a primary ward, I have hardened ward for that. Your friend can use it as a primary ward and then use a different spell to heal. If she's that's reliant on the ward then maybe it needs to be a priority over the heal component.:trollin:0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Healing Ward is available to everyone, and it does not always land on the caster. It should be powerful because to use it you need to have a resto staff on one bar. That's a sacrifice worthy of getting a decent heal on yourself or an ally.
It will always favor you over someone else.
If all else is equal yes...otherwise this almost never happens.
The person I duo with dies all the time because her healing ward lands on me instead of her when we're both damaged.
Perhaps Ward Ally would be the smarter choice then. Then she is always guaranteed the ward as well.
In many situations perhaps, but more common I think the heal itself is far more important after the shield expires. I've found Ward ally to be far too situation to be useful. I think it is far better for large group/zerg play than it is for small group combat as in small group combat more often only 1 person is being targeted.
I understand that. I use it as a heal, but I don't use it as a primary ward, I have hardened ward for that. Your friend can use it as a primary ward and then use a different spell to heal. If she's that's reliant on the ward then maybe it needs to be a priority over the heal component.
A good point, although while you have healing ward slotted you'd be gimping the ward by healing someone *before* applying the shield. I think it is really just a situational awareness/skill thing. I've used healing ward that duo/trio situations and only once or twice was I inconvenienced by another player taking a ward I intended for myself. In zergs however, one of the main reasons I stay away from them is there are always "Ward magnets" that just keep getting sniped/stand in siege etc. Your best bet in crowded situations for yourself is using your other shields first (if you have them).Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not crying, I'm doing perfectly fine without hardened ward. But this one is all the way much better than annulment, you cant deny it. Was just an answer to the guy saying that annulment is "the best shield" with healing ward. Healing ward is probably the best shield indeed, annulment is very good but not close to hardened ward.
Yes, Hardened Ward is better than Annulment. It's sorcs' core defensive skill since we run around in bathrobes to be effective. (Think about it :-)
Not sure what you're really trying to say..?
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭
You are wrong. Now sorc can freely stack 32k hp whith 150-200 cp total. Whith full hp. Just stand and stacking. I see some individuals that stack shields to 42k+ whith full hp.It seems you came close to killing him if he actually reached 50k shields. At least 20-25k of that shield must have been Healing Ward with 1% HP left. Your topic should really be how to counter 35k shield stacking NB or 42k shield stacking Temp/DK too if we're being honest because that is all the extra shielding Sorc gets over the other classes if we are believing your 50k shields portion of the post.
Uh, so this shield-god, does he kill you, or just stand, stack, and bore you to death? If it's the latter who cares, go find someone more interesting to fight. -_-
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Pobeda✭
We found him standing. We think easy frag afk. Attack - but he not be afk. He stand in 1 place (maybe semiafk or checking something in skills, map or so on. He not run, not fight whith us. We maximum dps him long time. We cc him as quick as can. But he just stand shield stacking and all. We can`t overdps him. His hp never opened. After long time (about 7 minutes) he just need to go, or tired to play whith us and quick kill us.
Uh, so this shield-god, does he kill you, or just stand, stack, and bore you to death? If it's the latter who cares, go find someone more interesting to fight. -_-
We were 2. And we very successfull to catch sorcers and kill it. So when some sorc not run away and not try overdps us - and can`t lost shields and hp - this is become sport interest - how it possible - we can`t kill him. So we try make maximum, but as we both magicka build and have stamina weak point - we think it have same. But no. And I see 2-3 times another big shield stackers (little lesser then 42, but more then 30k+). And most time they just solo ganking groups of 4-7 people very fast.
Edited by Pobeda on July 23, 2015 8:08PM0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
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We found him standing. We think easy frag afk. Attack - but he not be afk. He stand in 1 place (maybe semiafk or checking something in skills, map or so on. He not run, not fight whith us. We maximum dps him long time. We cc him as quick as can. But he just stand shield stacking and all. We can`t overdps him. His hp never opened. After long time (about 7 minutes) he just need to go, or tired to play whith us and quick kill us.
Uh, so this shield-god, does he kill you, or just stand, stack, and bore you to death? If it's the latter who cares, go find someone more interesting to fight. -_-
We were 2. And we very successfull to catch sorcers and kill it. So when some sorc not run away and not try overdps us - and can`t lost shields and hp - this is become sport interest - how it possible - we can`t kill him. So we try make maximum, but as we both magicka build and have stamina weak point - we think it have same. But no. And I see 2-3 times another big shield stackers (little lesser then 42, but more then 30k+). And most time they just solo ganking groups of 4-7 people very fast.
There are two many sorcs using too many exploits right now to even guess who or what you were fighting.
Last night me and another nightblade and a templar took a good 5 minutes to kill a sorc who admitted to me in tells he was using every exploit in the book. If I were to wrecking blow *my* sorc a single hit would take my shields to 20% or so....this guy was taking 3 wrecking blows back to back without losing his shield and not refreshing it. He wasn't quite like the "B" sorc but it was nearly as bad. *This* is why people think shieldstacking is broken and it needs fixed soon.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭
We found him standing. We think easy frag afk. Attack - but he not be afk. He stand in 1 place (maybe semiafk or checking something in skills, map or so on. He not run, not fight whith us. We maximum dps him long time. We cc him as quick as can. But he just stand shield stacking and all. We can`t overdps him. His hp never opened. After long time (about 7 minutes) he just need to go, or tired to play whith us and quick kill us.
Uh, so this shield-god, does he kill you, or just stand, stack, and bore you to death? If it's the latter who cares, go find someone more interesting to fight. -_-
We were 2. And we very successfull to catch sorcers and kill it. So when some sorc not run away and not try overdps us - and can`t lost shields and hp - this is become sport interest - how it possible - we can`t kill him. So we try make maximum, but as we both magicka build and have stamina weak point - we think it have same. But no. And I see 2-3 times another big shield stackers (little lesser then 42, but more then 30k+). And most time they just solo ganking groups of 4-7 people very fast.
That sounds like an exploiter to me. Please don't think it's all sorcs.
Occasionally when I'm in a situation where I know I'll die regardless or I want to die, I'll "shield-tank" the enemies out of curiosity how long I can. Best case, I can last several seconds (kind of amusing) til I run out of magicka, which is pretty quick what with my low regen; but it's gg as soon as someone gets in a fear or knock down.Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Why do you consider that bleeding effects shall be purged by the damage shields ? This is negating a lot of stamina based abilities and sets making them completely useless in PVP.Joy_Division wrote: »@Ezareth vemon arrow acts like destructive reach in that the CC/interrupt only applies if it actually damages the enmies healthbar. So VAing a temp with blazing shield/sorc with hardened wont do anything to protecr you unless you have enough damage to break the remaining shield.
This is utter stupidity. Shields should not grant users immunity to CCs, dots, procs, and secondary effects.
As a vocal "sorc is not OP" person, I can say that I completely agree with the above.
Eric said issues with this are all bugs and something they'd like to fix with an overhaul of the shields themselves.
Personally I think magical dots should tick against shields, but bleed effects and such should not be able to hit a player with a shield.
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
Why do you consider that bleeding effects shall be purged by the damage shields ? This is negating a lot of stamina based abilities and sets making them completely useless in PVP.Joy_Division wrote: »@Ezareth vemon arrow acts like destructive reach in that the CC/interrupt only applies if it actually damages the enmies healthbar. So VAing a temp with blazing shield/sorc with hardened wont do anything to protecr you unless you have enough damage to break the remaining shield.
This is utter stupidity. Shields should not grant users immunity to CCs, dots, procs, and secondary effects.
As a vocal "sorc is not OP" person, I can say that I completely agree with the above.
Eric said issues with this are all bugs and something they'd like to fix with an overhaul of the shields themselves.
Personally I think magical dots should tick against shields, but bleed effects and such should not be able to hit a player with a shield.
Not speaking from a balance perspective just an "RP" perspective or realism. If you're making someone "bleed" then you're getting through their shield already.
Not sure which stamina abilities have bleed effects though.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
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Just that annulment isnt the best shield after healing ward, if you read the post I quoted first,he was saying the contrary
I'm not crying, I'm doing perfectly fine without hardened ward. But this one is all the way much better than annulment, you cant deny it. Was just an answer to the guy saying that annulment is "the best shield" with healing ward. Healing ward is probably the best shield indeed, annulment is very good but not close to hardened ward.
Yes, Hardened Ward is better than Annulment. It's sorcs' core defensive skill since we run around in bathrobes to be effective. (Think about it :-)
Not sure what you're really trying to say..?
~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Ezareth Twin Slashes, axes and twin sisters are the only sources of bleed effects in PvP. (I know of)
(shamless selfadvertisement: read the gaint post i made on the subject a bit earlier in the thread.)
Cleave.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
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Lotus Fan (It was bleed dmg at least, don´t know if they changed it)
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
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Lotus Fan (It was bleed dmg at least, don´t know if they changed it)
Idk, calculator says magic damage but I'm not logged in.
I don't even know how bleed dmg works, in 1.4 it was physical damage that gave me magicka back via Harness.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭
Lotus Fan (It was bleed dmg at least, don´t know if they changed it)
I think it is a magic dot now.First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
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Lotus Fan (It was bleed dmg at least, don´t know if they changed it)
Idk, calculator says magic damage but I'm not logged in.
I don't even know how bleed dmg works, in 1.4 it was physical damage that gave me magicka back via Harness.
Well it was bleed dmg in 1.5 since you lost stamina while blocking - only physical dots are doing that R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0
