Please dont change Vigor to Rank 5

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

Obviously I need to learn to get pvp skills and how to get AP. Cause IM one of the ones that would take a year to get it.

HOWEVER I still dont feel it should be changed. Its like a status thing "ive pvp'd enough to EARN this" too many people are part of the "instant gratification" crowd the gimme gimme gimme. Whoa is me its not fair he can play more than me so he gets it yada yada yada.

I need to improve so I can get it
I need to play more pvp so I can get it
I DO NOT want it made easier I want to get a sense of accomplishment when I finally do get it

Now that being said WTB pvp lessons US PC

Lionxoft · July 2015

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

Obviously I need to learn to get pvp skills and how to get AP. Cause IM one of the ones that would take a year to get it.

HOWEVER I still dont feel it should be changed. Its like a status thing "ive pvp'd enough to EARN this" too many people are part of the "instant gratification" crowd the gimme gimme gimme. Whoa is me its not fair he can play more than me so he gets it yada yada yada.

I need to improve so I can get it
I need to play more pvp so I can get it
I DO NOT want it made easier I want to get a sense of accomplishment when I finally do get it

Now that being said WTB pvp lessons US PC

Abilities like this aren't a status thing though. Let the gear drops be a status.

yodased · July 2015

Well on my Templar he is a brand new character for ps4.

I play about 3 hours weekdays and probably about 15 hours on the weekend so figure 30 hours per week on that character.

I pvped on my AD DK for shiggles a couple of hours, but pretty exclusive on my EP Templar.

That being said, he is a hair away from VR4 and Rank 6 AvA.

I would say its a pretty even split 50/50 pvp and pve on this guy too , so say about 12-15 hours per week for ~5 weeks with a very experienced player with over 200 CP can get you rank 6.

Leandor · July 2015

Alliance Skill Line Rank 5 means you need to get 326k AP or Alliance Rank 9. In a reasonably good group, this is done in 4 days. While I agree that skill line rank 10 (or AR 24) is to harsh a gate for most players, the reduction to skill line rank 5 is over the top.

Skill line rank 7 (1.62 mln AP) or 8 (2.85 mln AP) are much better and appropriate gates. This has been expressed many times, as early as April, and is still true. I agree to bring this issue up again, but since there was no reaction from developers in regards to this topic, I assume that the new gate is set in stone.

GhostShadows · July 2015

OP will ask to make it at rank 5 wen start the 4rth alt or so, just saying!

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

Obviously I need to learn to get pvp skills and how to get AP. Cause IM one of the ones that would take a year to get it.

HOWEVER I still dont feel it should be changed. Its like a status thing "ive pvp'd enough to EARN this" too many people are part of the "instant gratification" crowd the gimme gimme gimme. Whoa is me its not fair he can play more than me so he gets it yada yada yada.

I need to improve so I can get it
I need to play more pvp so I can get it
I DO NOT want it made easier I want to get a sense of accomplishment when I finally do get it

Now that being said WTB pvp lessons US PC

Abilities like this aren't a status thing though. Let the gear drops be a status.

Gear drops arent status either. They are "what guild do i know or friends I have to help me get gear" the pvp thing is something you have to do.

But I dont expect most to agree with me because of the day we live in. I want I want I want is all most are about now a days

Lionxoft · July 2015

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

Obviously I need to learn to get pvp skills and how to get AP. Cause IM one of the ones that would take a year to get it.

HOWEVER I still dont feel it should be changed. Its like a status thing "ive pvp'd enough to EARN this" too many people are part of the "instant gratification" crowd the gimme gimme gimme. Whoa is me its not fair he can play more than me so he gets it yada yada yada.

I need to improve so I can get it
I need to play more pvp so I can get it
I DO NOT want it made easier I want to get a sense of accomplishment when I finally do get it

Now that being said WTB pvp lessons US PC

Abilities like this aren't a status thing though. Let the gear drops be a status.

Gear drops arent status either. They are "what guild do i know or friends I have to help me get gear" the pvp thing is something you have to do.

But I dont expect most to agree with me because of the day we live in. I want I want I want is all most are about now a days

I have the skill and I think more people having access to the skill will benefit the competitiveness of the game which to me is more important.

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

So thats fair to all the people who spent hours upon hours to get the AP for it. Admit it you just want it to be easier so you can get it.

Thats fine its your opinion. I simply disagree.

Nuff said

Leandor · July 2015

GhostShadows wrote: »

OP will ask to make it at rank 5 wen start the 4rth alt or so, just saying!

I have skill line rank 5 on four chars and skill line rank 8 on three. I still ask for 8. I only have one char that has skill line rank 10.

Lionxoft wrote: »

I have the skill and I think more people having access to the skill will benefit the competitiveness of the game which to me is more important.

I agree that it should be made more available. But I still think that skill line rank 5 is OTT. Also, every player that sticks for a while will at some point reach the gate. It is not a question of "is one able to get it" but only "how long does it take".

That said, I would like to repeat that skill rank line 10 is OTT as well and that it actually should be reduced.

yodased · July 2015

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

So thats fair to all the people who spent hours upon hours to get the AP for it. Admit it you just want it to be easier so you can get it.

Thats fine its your opinion. I simply disagree.

Nuff said

Well it's not about fair really. Is it fair that those people have the time needed to dedicate to PvP vs people who don't?

Is it fair that tower farming bads is the way the MASSIVE majority of players who are rank 10 or higher got there?

Is if fair that zerging against other zergs is the fastest way to get AP and if you are thinking about small scale or shutter to think solo play you will never have the opportunity to get to v10 in a reasonable time frame?

Is it fair that most people who play this game have jobs/families and can't spend 10+ hours every day in PvP?

It' s not an opinion that the majority of players would not hit that gate before stopping playing the game, obviously because the devs looked at the numbers and lowered the gate to the lowest common denominator rank 5.

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

Wow you are really complaining that its not fair people have to have jobs and families?

I was a fire fighter/paramedic for 25 years. I have a wife (who puts up with me I have no idea why) and 4 kids

So I know what its like not to have time to play. It sucks. BUT THAT IS LIFE.

So yes it is fair.

I HATE zergs. My friends and I do small scale pvp. If it takes a long time to get something we overcome and adapt and try to have fun. We dont whine about "OMG its so not fair I cant have this end line ability because I have to work and have a family"

I think the big difference here is. While I dont agree it should be dropped to rank 5 I wont come on the forums and whine about it if it happens.

I personally dont think its fair for people who have worked their tales off to get something to see it given to people who dont want to put the effort in to get it. Not just in a video game but in life not going to say anything else on that.

We can just agree to disagree.

yodased · July 2015

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

Wow you are really complaining that its not fair people have to have jobs and families?

I was a fire fighter/paramedic for 25 years. I have a wife (who puts up with me I have no idea why) and 4 kids

So I know what its like not to have time to play. It sucks. BUT THAT IS LIFE.

So yes it is fair.

I HATE zergs. My friends and I do small scale pvp. If it takes a long time to get something we overcome and adapt and try to have fun. We dont whine about "OMG its so not fair I cant have this end line ability because I have to work and have a family"

I think the big difference here is. While I dont agree it should be dropped to rank 5 I wont come on the forums and whine about it if it happens.

I personally dont think its fair for people who have worked their tales off to get something to see it given to people who dont want to put the effort in to get it. Not just in a video game but in life not going to say anything else on that.

We can just agree to disagree.

Am i complaining that people have a life and work? Uhm no, I am simply saying that its not "work" that people are putting in to get the skill.

It's simply having more time than someone else. The majority of people zerged and farmed their way to vigor, so how is that "putting in the work".

It's a game, it's supposed to be fun not work anyway.

They didn't "work their tails off" by any means, they just had less responsibilities taking up their gaming time.

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

So your saying EVERYONE who had vigor has zerged his/her/other way to it?

I bet a few people would disagree with you on that notion.

Like I said agree to disagree.

Have a nice day

Jesus (or whatever divinity you choose) loves you

yodased · July 2015

the word majority is lost on you?

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

The word "opinion" is lost on you

eliisra · July 2015

From a individual perspective I think it's nice.

I only have Vigor on 2 of my charterers and both are magicka builds. My stamina builds are miles away from getting. So for someone with multiple alts or just limited play time, it's awesome.

But from a AvAvA perspective it's madness. Handing the strongest AoE heal in the game to every single little *** in a 40+ Steel Tornado zerg is pretty much game breaking. Raids wont even need magicka based healers any more, can throw away that dead weight with pathetic AoE dps, just stack even more sharp mace + Steel Tornado + Vigor and run everyone over.

I really hope they change Vigor before that happens. Make it a strong self-heal for bow/DW and a much weaker AoE heal.

Ezareth · July 2015

The reason this absolutely has to be made Rank 5 is simple.

In 1.7 Stamina users will not longer be able to rely on spamming defensive abilities (dodge roll and block). This means they're going to need a more reliable heal than rally (don't forget all healing is being nerfed the same amount as damage) as they're going to be taking a ton more damage than they are now.

I've done nothing but PvP my way to Vet 14 on my NB over the past couple of months and I'm only Assault Rank 7. I lose to other players constantly because they have abilities that counter my only defensive abilities (whip/concealed weapon/curse/etc) and my healing ability is limited to tri-pots + rally. Stamina is fundamentally flawed without access to a heal in lieu of a damage shield (which I don't support).

Sureshawt · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

The reason this absolutely has to be made Rank 5 is simple.

In 1.7 Stamina users will not longer be able to rely on spamming defensive abilities (dodge roll and block). This means they're going to need a more reliable heal than rally (don't forget all healing is being nerfed the same amount as damage) as they're going to be taking a ton more damage than they are now.

I've done nothing but PvP my way to Vet 14 on my NB over the past couple of months and I'm only Assault Rank 7. I lose to other players constantly because they have abilities that counter my only defensive abilities (whip/concealed weapon/curse/etc) and my healing ability is limited to tri-pots + rally. Stamina is fundamentally flawed without access to a heal in lieu of a damage shield (which I don't support).

^ This

A reasonable rational explanation. How refreshing

Tors · July 2015

To be honest I would rather they remove the skill entirely

If a single skill is this wanted, then it is totally overpowered.

Remove the skill and you remove the problem

Ezareth · July 2015

Tors wrote: »

To be honest I would rather they remove the skill entirely

If a single skill is this wanted, then it is totally overpowered.

Remove the skill and you remove the problem

Or it is that wanted because it is something that allows a NB Stamina player to have a "complete" build.

Or are you one of the people that thing all NB Stamina users should be using bows from stealth and ganking only?

Ahzek · July 2015

Vigor is a strong skill and the game needs it.
Without vigor and with the comming nirn nerf there would be nothing that allows solo/smallscale stamina builds to actually survive any decent magicka player.
Raly is not enough (and too restrictive) to be the only reasonable self heal for stamina builds.
There is a huge difference between fighting a stamnia build with vigor and without.
Gating such a huge dealmaker behind such a high TIME (not skill ) wall just is not fair to the players. Claiming that you have "worked" for it and that others should do so as well is ignorant at best and purely selfish at worst.
However i agree that the AoE component of vigor seems to be somewhat overtuned when used by larger numbers.

Note: I never touched a stam specc and if I would I have vigor already unlocked.

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

Sureshawt wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The reason this absolutely has to be made Rank 5 is simple.

In 1.7 Stamina users will not longer be able to rely on spamming defensive abilities (dodge roll and block). This means they're going to need a more reliable heal than rally (don't forget all healing is being nerfed the same amount as damage) as they're going to be taking a ton more damage than they are now.

I've done nothing but PvP my way to Vet 14 on my NB over the past couple of months and I'm only Assault Rank 7. I lose to other players constantly because they have abilities that counter my only defensive abilities (whip/concealed weapon/curse/etc) and my healing ability is limited to tri-pots + rally. Stamina is fundamentally flawed without access to a heal in lieu of a damage shield (which I don't support).

^ This

A reasonable rational explanation. How refreshing

I agree a reasonable well thought out explanation I can agree with

Jar_Ek · July 2015

Or they create a self only heal for rank 5 that is replaced by vigour at rank 10. There is no reason this could not be done if they both followed the same base design and morphs... but the rank 5 was simply weaker and non aoe.

reften · July 2015

lol just got vigor a couple weeks ago. *eyeroll

Aett_Thorn · July 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Or they create a self only heal for rank 5 that is replaced by vigour at rank 10. There is no reason this could not be done if they both followed the same base design and morphs... but the rank 5 was simply weaker and non aoe.

There really are a number of different solutions that could be implemented here, and this is a good one. Putting the skill lower, but adding a passive at Rank 10 that turned it into an AoE would be a fine solution.

As would adding a slightly similar stamina-based heal to the Undaunted line somewhere for PvE players.

The problem isn't that Vigor is powerful and should need to be worked towards. It's just that it's in an area that not everyone even wants to play, and most certainly it's at a point where people who do want it don't want to have to do all of that work on every single character. But since it's the only real stamina-based heal in the game, people are going to want it.

Give us more options, and I'm betting that there would be less people wanting this skill or at least complaining that it's too far out of reach.