Please dont change Vigor to Rank 5

coolermh · July 2015

One of the best skills in the game should take some time to get. I dont think every joebob that jumps in pvp for a few days should have it.

Valrien · July 2015

And lock the only one of two stamina based heals out of the hands of the masses, forcing everyone to be a two-handed build?

Rosveen · July 2015

It will "take some time to get." Only now the time won't be ridiculously long.

Vis · July 2015

I am all for the "masses" having access to key skills. When I beat someone, I want it to be because I played better, not because I am a higher rank.

Tolmos · July 2015

Vis wrote: »

I am all for the "masses" having access to key skills. When I beat someone, I want it to be because I played better, not because I am a higher rank.

This game needs more people like you. Too many folks clamoring for the game to give them stat and skill advantages over their opponents because of fear that they can't lose in a fair match.

You, sir, are one of the few good sports around.

coolermh · July 2015

Valrien wrote: »

And lock the only one of two stamina based heals out of the hands of the masses, forcing everyone to be a two-handed build?

You wont stop using the two handed heal when you realize that they stack...trust me.

Strider_Roshin · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

One of the best skills in the game should take some time to get. I dont think every joebob that jumps in pvp for a few days should have it.

I agree, we should make crystal shards the last move you unlock as a sorcerer. Having one of the most powerful moves in the game at level 1 just isn't fair. It should take some time to get.

coolermh · July 2015

Tolmos wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I am all for the "masses" having access to key skills. When I beat someone, I want it to be because I played better, not because I am a higher rank.

This game needs more people like you. Too many folks clamoring for the game to give them stat and skill advantages over their opponents because of fear that they can't lose in a fair match.

You, sir, are one of the few good sports around.

So by this logic everyone should just log on and have a max level char with the best gear so that its fair for everyone.... this is an mmo not a first person shooter. Its never going to be fair nor should it be.

BigTone · July 2015

Although I see your point, especially considering I am 5k AP from unlocking it, I have to disagree with you. The move is too powerful to only be available to people who are extremely experienced in PvP. Powerful moves like this should be available to the masses. There should be moves that are unlockable at rank 10, but not game changing moves like vigor.

coolermh · July 2015

I am not saying it should be 10 but making it 5 is just way to easy. I would be fine with 8 or 9.

Tolmos · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

Tolmos wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I am all for the "masses" having access to key skills. When I beat someone, I want it to be because I played better, not because I am a higher rank.

This game needs more people like you. Too many folks clamoring for the game to give them stat and skill advantages over their opponents because of fear that they can't lose in a fair match.

You, sir, are one of the few good sports around.

So by this logic everyone should just log on and have a max level char with the best gear so that its fair for everyone.... this is an mmo not a first person shooter. Its never going to be fair nor should it be.

Cool strawman. Overused, sure, but it's always fun to see it erected whenever folks get a chance!

Tors · July 2015

I have been playing since beta and am only now just about to enable the skill.

I dont want it, being a magica build healer anyway, but it takes a bit of the gloss of the achievment for me when I do hit the rank.

Why should a build thats extreme dps have such an easily achievable self heal? looks like the script monkeys currently abusing the hell out of the macro keyboard and lack of cooldowns in ESO will have a field day in PvP when suddenly the flood gates are opened

Anyway why should there NOT be things to aim for?

I want the White Dye from the Emp dye, I feel this should therefore be availiable to me in the crown store or when I reach PvP rank 5 (sounds fair)

Robotmafia · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

One of the best skills in the game should take some time to get. I dont think every joebob that jumps in pvp for a few days should have it.

i mean it takes more than a few days for a newbie to hit rank 5 in the skill line... its to OP to just lock it behind timeplayed wall... it doesnt even take much skill to get it just takes a *** ton of time... a player could follow a zerg for 3 months and not learn how to play his class or fight outside the zerg and get the skill...

yodased · July 2015

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

coolermh · July 2015

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

Sausage · July 2015

Its the way it goes, it was no-lifers things just like Emperor buff was. They add more with IC, Im sure. Devs just love those kids playing in moms and dads basements 24/7. Permanent Emperor buff removed and Vigor changed, we can assure IC-gears are going to be awesome, Id almost bet mainstream arent never going to see IC-gears.

Tolmos · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

Oh yea, well I have friends on xbox who hit rank 10 the first day. So hah!

Bfish22090 · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

The difference between rank 7 and 10 is ALOT

yodased · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

And I have friends that have been playing for over a year and are barely rank 4.

Is there a point there or you just wanted us to know you have friends?

Anyone who is dedicated to playing 12-15 hours a day on summer break from school of course is going to skew the numbers.

If you are playing 30 days x 15 hours a day and netting 30-50k per hour then yeah sure.

That is not statistically normal.

RedTalon · July 2015

Don't worry the change will be good, and you will grow to love it, and accept it with the fullness of your heart in the end

Beesting · July 2015

I started pvp-ing in april and just made tribune, so about 10 million AP

When i unlocked vigor i did not even put a skillpoint into it, because i have GDB

I still play magica DK because i prefer open en honest fights,

but i guess that zenimax prefers people that sit around and try to sneak kill someone in 1 sec and when they fail they can just run away and spam vigor

but how is that different from sorcs bolting away spamming shield ?

the AD zerg will still run from sejanus to BRK all day long, so it wont change much in pvp haha

Beesting · July 2015

yodased wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

And I have friends that have been playing for over a year and are barely rank 4.

Is there a point there or you just wanted us to know you have friends?

Anyone who is dedicated to playing 12-15 hours a day on summer break from school of course is going to skew the numbers.

If you are playing 30 days x 15 hours a day and netting 30-50k per hour then yeah sure.

That is not statistically normal.

And you dude spent far too much time in dungeons, you could have been warlord by now np

yodased · July 2015

@Beesting But, but, but I LOVE dungeons.

Rosveen · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

Cool. Now consider that they'll have to spend 3.3x more time to reach rank 10, because that's how much AP it takes. Five months of constant PvP all day, every day. Do you really think this is reasonable? Most people do it only once, if at all. Imagine doing it on alts.

Bfish22090 · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

The difference between rank 7 and 10 is ALOT

Atlaz · July 2015

I don't really care to be frank, anyone can pick up a restore staff right away and use it as a secondary. What is annoying though is how stupid long they expect me to grind, sure I did the main quest but I'm not going to spend god knows how long doing all the side quest.

coolermh · July 2015

I am aware...im not saying it should be 10... i said dont make it 5.. im ok with 7 or 8

Rosveen · July 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

The difference between rank 7 and 10 is ALOT

Normally I wouldn't, but you double posted and capitalized it and I just can't resist.
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

leepalmer95 · July 2015

Now everyone is the zerg trains will have an aoe heal... nice.

DenMoria · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

ok so this has been beaten to death so many times, but I'll play the game again just for you mr man.

Currently takes 7,000,000 AP or there abouts to get Vigor.

The average person (from everything I have gathered over playing this game from beta) nets an average of 10-20k per session of pvp.

lets call it 15k just to be in the medium. Obviously there will be more and there will be less, but lets look at the median for a minute.

7,000,000 / 15,000 = 467 sessions.

Now that would be almost 1.3 years of playing pvp every single day and gaining at least 15k AP.

Most people playing this game are not going to do that and the developers understand that. Now Vigor is able to be gotten in a reasonable amount of time for people that can only play 4-5 hours per week.

Remember, just because you can play every single day and get 50-100k AP per session does not mean you are "normal" in the sense that the mass majority of players can't.

Having vigor at rank 5 may still take a lot of players over a year to get, but at least its a goal they can work towards instead of an insurmountable task that isn't even worth trying for since it will not happen in the time frame they will foresee-ably play the game.

I have friends playing on ps4 that are already at rank 7 that have been playing barely over a month.

And apparently doing absolutely nothing else. Rank 7 in just over a month? Do you have any idea how many hours a day and how many days you would need to play to even get close to achieving that?

Let's ask one of the long timers just how long it normally takes (in hours per day) to go from 1-50 and then to achieve each of the V ranks. Somehow 40 odd days seems a bit out of reach.

Personally, even playing 12-20 hours I can't get to normal level 15. Either I am doing something very, very wrong, or your "friends" are spending an inordinate amount of time playing ESO.

Lionxoft · July 2015

coolermh wrote: »

One of the best skills in the game should take some time to get. I dont think every joebob that jumps in pvp for a few days should have it.

I have absolutely no problem with other people being able to compete with me. If you're any good at PvP then you'll see that this is actually a buff to the community's competitive capabilities.