Blur and survivability...does it make a difference?

Bloodgharm · July 2015

So I've heard mixed reviews for Blur and it's morphs. Since NBs don't come with any fancy self heals or damage shields, our only in-house form of survivability is this dodge chance. I'm looking for help in deciding if it would be worth it to keep such a skill on one of my bars. That's where my peers come in. I'd like some good hard facts and possibly some numbers to back up why or why not to use Blur/Mirage/Double Take.

I really like the idea of this skill, but unless it will actually help me survive while solo questing, I'll happily forget about it. Until then, I'll just sit back and keep using 2h weapons...even though they're ridiculously slow and in no way contribute to my enjoyment of the game (aside from staying alive, that is). I desparately want to use dw for rp purposes, but they just aren't cutting it for me. I'm dying too often in public dungeons and fighting world bosses.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Sometimes it's not all that noticable in 1 on 1 fights. 20% is a 1 in 5 chance to dodge an attack. It only works against projectile or single target melee attacks, so area attacks will often bypass the mitigation it provides. Technically, in the long run, it's worth roughly 20% damage reduction, but it doesnt usually play out that way.

Personally, I prefer elude / shuffle in the medium armor tree. It provides the same 20% dodge bonus, but also frees me from slows and snares, makes it more useful for pvp. When soloing, I dont usually end up needing the extra survivability that much, though it can help against bosses (I prefer to use damage shields though, bone shield is a good option for nightblades).

On the point of dying too often, this is more likely to do with how you're approaching combat than whether or not you have enough defensive perks. Most damage in the game can be avoided by keeping out of AoE effects, blocking heavy attacks, interrupting spells, and dodging whatever else is left. If you're dying too easily to basic attacks from enemies, you're either too low level or you need to invest more points/enchantments in health and armor. You could always mix some heavy armor into your medium gear (I do mostly for looks, but the extra health/defense helps some as well) - as long as you keep 5 pieces of medium armor you'll still get a hefty benefit out of the passives for it.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

I dunno man. Double take is a must have for me on my bow bar. A quick role for hastey retreat into double take is a mean get away. 70% can cover a lot of distance when you need it.

I never notice if i dodge somthing or not though. On console their is no indication for a dodge. I would much rather just 20% damage mitigation then relie on the RNG of dodge chance.

It give's me crit chance with it slotted though. So not to big of a draw back.

RavenSworn · July 2015

If you notice, your character will animate feinting to the left, like a boxer avoiding a punch.

I have 'dodge' a telegraphed charge attack even when im standing in the middle of the attack itself. Same goes for arrow barrage, and even multiple targets wrecking blows. I have for one time, Dodge a boss' charged heavy attack. So yeah it is useful.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I dunno man. Double take is a must have for me on my bow bar. A quick role for hastey retreat into double take is a mean get away. 70% can cover a lot of distance when you need it.

I never notice if i dodge somthing or not though. On console their is no indication for a dodge. I would much rather just 20% damage mitigation then relie on the RNG of dodge chance.

It give's me crit chance with it slotted though. So not to big of a draw back.

That's true, the move speed buff could be useful for escape or kiting

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

That's true, the move speed buff could be useful for escape or kiting

It's also a great gap closer for concealed weapon.

Aerathnor · July 2015

Bloodgharm wrote: »

So I've heard mixed reviews for Blur and it's morphs. Since NBs don't come with any fancy self heals or damage shields, our only in-house form of survivability is this dodge chance. I'm looking for help in deciding if it would be worth it to keep such a skill on one of my bars. That's where my peers come in. I'd like some good hard facts and possibly some numbers to back up why or why not to use Blur/Mirage/Double Take.

I really like the idea of this skill, but unless it will actually help me survive while solo questing, I'll happily forget about it. Until then, I'll just sit back and keep using 2h weapons...even though they're ridiculously slow and in no way contribute to my enjoyment of the game (aside from staying alive, that is). I desparately want to use dw for rp purposes, but they just aren't cutting it for me. I'm dying too often in public dungeons and fighting world bosses.

Vigor will help that in the next patch (rank 5 in pvp is pretty easy to get) so you may be able to dw more once that is in place.

That being said I only run rally and wrecking blow (WB for 1 shots from stealth in pve) from 2h and animation cancel all of my light attacks so I don't have to wait for that slow animation. LA->Veiled Strike (either morph) is extremely efficient and quick dps and I've always felt that NB's have it easy with 2h for that reason.

Blur I've never been a fan of, but I can see its use as an escape tool or all around mobility tool with a random dodge chance. If you're counting on it as your "survivability" skill you'll be disappointed though

Leandor · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Personally, I prefer elude / shuffle in the medium armor tree. It provides the same 20% dodge bonus, but also frees me from slows and snares, makes it more useful for pvp. When soloing, I dont usually end up needing the extra survivability that much, though it can help against bosses (I prefer to use damage shields though, bone shield is a good option for nightblades).

As a stamina blade, I prefer Double Take over Elude, because it consumes magicka. I use it in "flee or die" situations mostly, and usually am sprinting. Since both sprint and sneak stop stamina regeneration, using the class skill spends a resource that is constantly regenerated even while using defensive maneuvers like sprint/dodge.

Also, for snare situations, I usually cloak & run through them rather than trying to get away, so for my style,move snare removal is less desirable. As a side note, doesn't elude break stealth?

chevalierknight · July 2015

I use it with vampire stealth and concelded weapon t get a stealth hit then dont refresh it as i use cripling grasp for the speed as i have no gap closer

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems that Blur is really only used for its secondary characteristics (movement speed and crit chance passives). I guess I won't be slotting it then when there are certainly better skills for fill out my bar. I desparately want to use dw, but also want some survivability. I wish that Blood Craze gave the HoT separate from the bleed effect so that I could get a heal while fighting undead/dwemer constructs...

Aerathnor · July 2015

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems that Blur is really only used for its secondary characteristics (movement speed and crit chance passives). I guess I won't be slotting it then when there are certainly better skills for fill out my bar. I desparately want to use dw, but also want some survivability. I wish that Blood Craze gave the HoT separate from the bleed effect so that I could get a heal while fighting undead/dwemer constructs...

It seems like such an easy fix that it's a wonder they haven't done it yet.

aco5712 · July 2015

as a ganker, the most annoying person to insta kill is a NB running a blur. You can never finish them off. I think its a very useful skilll and should be part of most set ups.

Vizier · July 2015

Double Take is a must. It allows you maintain high speeds while in stealth while using Magicka. This is good cuz you don't have to rely on rapid maneuvers for major expedition. This helps conserve stamina better for when you need it. So not only do you become very difficult to hit your move fast as hell. Cloak and Double-Take work well together and better with concealed weapon on your bar, better still if you are a vampire with the removed stealth movement penalty passive.

Hardicon · July 2015

Yeah it does make a difference. Plus with double take you get major expedition, and if you use bow you can dodge roll for more movement increase. Stay ahead of the enemy that way. For pvp not sure, I don't really pvp, but for pve double take works great especially with bow.

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Hardicon wrote: »

Yeah it does make a difference. Plus with double take you get major expedition, and if you use bow you can dodge roll for more movement increase. Stay ahead of the enemy that way. For pvp not sure, I don't really pvp, but for pve double take works great especially with bow.

I'm not too worried about movement speed since I can use crippling grasp, but is there a noticeable amount of damage mitigation from the Dodge chance? I'm planning on using it on my dw heavy character so I can get away from 2h and rally.

Ezareth · July 2015

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Hardicon wrote: »

Yeah it does make a difference. Plus with double take you get major expedition, and if you use bow you can dodge roll for more movement increase. Stay ahead of the enemy that way. For pvp not sure, I don't really pvp, but for pve double take works great especially with bow.

I'm not too worried about movement speed since I can use crippling grasp, but is there a noticeable amount of damage mitigation from the Dodge chance? I'm planning on using it on my dw heavy character so I can get away from 2h and rally.

Double take is a must for any stamina build, especially if you're running Steel tornado as you're vulnerable in the moment you cast steel tornado until you animation cancel it with a dodge roll. Being hit 20% less is huge.

Plus as others have mentioned you get bonus Crit.

*Plus* most people don't realize Retreating Manuevers is bugged and only gives you 30% Run speed not 40%. Double take is your only Major Expedition option as a NB and it is noticeable to me.

If you're a Stamina NB chasing down a sorc you can run much faster and further when spamming double-take and sprinting as double-take consumes magicka. It allows for quick repositioning in any fight and a quick active retreating option when the zerg gets out of hand. Just make sure you animation cancel it into your sprint to get the most benefit.