There's no difference between Rally and Vigor other than difficulty in obtaining the latter, which is being changed with the next major patch.

All everyone does around here is complain.

The problem is unchecked CP and the removal of softcaps, everyone is just gaming the system now. They break the class/armor/weapon balances.

Zsymon wrote: »

How about instead of nerfing everything that's fun, we upgrade other skills to become more useful.

For example give DW a stamina based shield, say around 8K points, so that DW builds have survivability without dodge roll.

This. I'm sorry people feel that they have to go 2h, but don't nerf my tank's only stam based heal because it's better than bloodcraze. Fix bloodcraze to put a HoT on yourself that heals for the same/more than rally or give blade cloak a morph to heal with.

Heck I may go back to dw for my offset as a tank if Blade Cloak gave a heal, I'd take the aoe damage reduction and heal over 20% extra damage and heal from rally. Added benefit would be that stam tanks could run dw for AoE help and a survivability buff.

Rally doesn't need to go, they just need to help out dw's half brained stam heal.

Zsymon wrote: »

How about instead of nerfing everything that's fun, we upgrade other skills to become more useful.

For example give DW a stamina based shield, say around 8K points, so that DW builds have survivability without dodge roll.

You do know you have Bone Shield right?

The Vigor change will relive this but it also make's 2h user's even more tanky.

NERF 2H.

Rally ruin's the game.

There's no need. No 2h user is going to use both rally and vigor in most situations. We're limited to 5 ability slots, ability real estate is always an issue. Throwing two heals on your bar when you only need one is using up valuable space that could be put to use with a different ability type.

If 2h DIDNT have rally, it'd be squishier than dual wielders are.

Bone shield is a physical shield only so not much use against magicka attacks...

This is false, bone shield is a damage shield just like any other damage shield in the game: it absorbs up to 30% of your max health in damage, regardless of type. It -used- to be an armor buff, but it has since been changed into a proper damage shield.

Zsymon wrote: »

How about instead of nerfing everything that's fun, we upgrade other skills to become more useful.

Actually there are good design reasos behind nerfs over buffs. The first is to avoid power creep. The second is because nerfing 1 skill is easier than buffing 100. Power creep naturally happens in games with constant content releases. Buffing too many skills arbitrarily in order to match 1 skill will cause power creep to happen at a faster rate than is good for game health.

Nerfing is generally easier and safer for game health/longevity. Especially when the environment becomes competitive.

J2JMC wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

How about instead of nerfing everything that's fun, we upgrade other skills to become more useful.

Actually there are good design reasos behind nerfs over buffs. The first is to avoid power creep. The second is because nerfing 1 skill is easier than buffing 100. Power creep naturally happens in games with constant content releases. Buffing too many skills arbitrarily in order to match 1 skill will cause power creep to happen at a faster rate than is good for game health.

Nerfing is generally easier and safer for game health/longevity. Especially when the environment becomes competitive.

I normally agree with this sentiment, and maybe the vigor change will put rally in a place where it's safe to nerf, but as it stands it is very difficult to get going on a Stam tank without picking up rally for Stam based sustain. In most cases people dislike rally because they feel forced into 2h over dw, I feel a buff to bloodcraze (really just a change in how the healing functions, making it a HoT instead of a "life steal") would give dw a sustain that doesn't require the target to not be immune to bleeding or shielded. Couple this with the rumored 20% damage buff being put on to hidden blade and you've got an equivalent in dw to rally.

I mostly just don't want stam tanks to be at such a disadvantage pre vigor that it's nearly impossible to function.

In every other case I hate power creep, but dw could use the help compared to 2h.

Aerathnor wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

How about instead of nerfing everything that's fun, we upgrade other skills to become more useful.

Actually there are good design reasos behind nerfs over buffs. The first is to avoid power creep. The second is because nerfing 1 skill is easier than buffing 100. Power creep naturally happens in games with constant content releases. Buffing too many skills arbitrarily in order to match 1 skill will cause power creep to happen at a faster rate than is good for game health.

Nerfing is generally easier and safer for game health/longevity. Especially when the environment becomes competitive.

I normally agree with this sentiment, and maybe the vigor change will put rally in a place where it's safe to nerf, but as it stands it is very difficult to get going on a Stam tank without picking up rally for Stam based sustain. In most cases people dislike rally because they feel forced into 2h over dw, I feel a buff to bloodcraze (really just a change in how the healing functions, making it a HoT instead of a "life steal") would give dw a sustain that doesn't require the target to not be immune to bleeding or shielded. Couple this with the rumored 20% damage buff being put on to hidden blade and you've got an equivalent in dw to rally.

I mostly just don't want stam tanks to be at such a disadvantage pre vigor that it's nearly impossible to function.

In every other case I hate power creep, but dw could use the help compared to 2h.

Tanks shouldnt need a self heal in most cases, that's what your healer is there for. Once vigor becomes more readily available, there will be no need to nerf rally, because they'll rarely be used at the same time - I already went over that in regards to 'ability bar real estate', there's just no reason to use two heals when one will cover your needs. If you do need two healing skills to survive, you should probably look into your defensive options and attribute allocation.

I do agree that the heal from blood craze should rival rally. It should not be dependent on the bleed effect sticking, but should just provide a heal over time equivalent to rally whenever you hit an enemy with blood craze's initial attack.

Personally I think they should be adding major brutality to blade cloak instead of flying blade. Right now, blade cloak provides very minor aoe damage and a 20% reduction in aoe damage taken, that's hardly worth justifying putting it on your skill bar, whereas hidden blade is already a highly useful attack. This would also allow the major brutality buff to be gained while in stealth, which is the main reason that momentum is so useful - you can activate it before a fight, whereas abilities like flying blade or power extraction must be used in battle to get the major brutality buff.

If 2handed needs anything at this point, it's a buff to cleave to be competetive with dual wield AoE damage. It's already a more difficult ability to use, and most of its damage is a bleed over time. Dual wield can match up to wrecking blow with rapid strikes/hidden blade, but its the clear leader in area damage. Personally I think they need to change cleave to deal all of its damage up front, rather than causing a bleed.

Bloodgharm wrote: »

@Lynx7386 I honestly think that dw needs at least a good heal (whether it be burst or HoT) and/or a damage shield like brawler. There's no reason why 2h needs to have both a good heal+brutality buff and a da mage shield. Imo, blade cloak would be great for a damage shield or make the 20% damage reduction for all damage, not just aoe. I also like your idea of adding major brutality to blade cloak, but I still think it needs something else to make it on par with rally. I'd rather have the HoT work on blood craze. It needs to be a separate HoT not associated with the bleed effect. It just isn't reliable atm.

All classes can get bone shield, regardless of what weapon type they use.