Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Obligitory KEEP THE 100% LOSS thread.
-
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Unlike PvE players who like to just do their PvE only; us PvPers are pretty versatile usually in that we can do both. In fact; we kind of have to all the time. Do you think those tower mages and keep guards just kill themselves?
Edited by technohic on July 20, 2015 1:46AM7 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Personally play a mix of PvE and PvP -- Cyrodiil is my favourite zone in game because it allows me to defend myself from gankers at quest hubs or while fighting mobs. I enjoy the dynamics of it.
So, other PvP players can try and gank me for my stones, or they can try to grind their own. Won't be giving up mine without a fight though.
It's exciting to me, and I look forward to the fight over the stones more than the gears they will buy.
It's not the having, it's the getting."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
5 -
Dekken_Blake✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
https://youtu.be/WSTNbpiulho?t=3512
Yeah, that's what I thought. I just watched it again and I didn't hear any specifics about stone distribution when being killed by a group. I get that if you 1v1, winner takes all, and that makes sense. I'm more curious if you have one dude that gets rolled by a group of 12, do they split the stones? Or does the lucky one that gets the last hit take it all? Seems like it would be annoying for a whole group to lose out on stones to a guy spamming executes.
I'm also kind of curious if they would reduce the amount looted by a percent. The guy that dies loses everything, but the looter can only obtain something like 80% of what the dead guy was carrying. Y'know, stuff breaks when you fight.
Edited by Dekken_Blake on July 20, 2015 2:23AM0 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭Lemme just clear one thing up. I see so many people using words like "stealing".
It's an area that allows PVP with the rule of winner(s) takes all. If you go into this area, you are consenting to the rules of said area, so if two or more players fight, and the other side wins and gets the stones, they won a prize for being better at fighting, they didn't come along and rob somebody.
It would be like playing a gambling game, then getting upset because someone "stole" the prize pot due to them being a better player and winning.7 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
it was specifically stated that it bears further testing on PTS. People want to choose to ignore that fact and just assume the worst without even listgening to what ZOS already stated and you end up with threads like this one all over the place. Its one thing to voice a concern. It's another to spin out of control over things that have not even been said as final.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Unlike PvE players who like to just do their PvE only; us PvPers are pretty versatile usually in that we can do both. In fact; we kind of have to all the time. Do you think those tower mages and keep guards just kill themselves?
Reason why I asked was I was wondering if any pvp players were dancing in their seats in excitement about going to the IC to kill mobs, and would think those players would rather have a source of stones based around the activity they enjoy doing more. The primary source of stones seems to be from mobs and I was wondering if on a whole pvp players were fine with content based around grinding pve, seems with these stones zos just added the alternative of killing people who have done the grinding instead. Wouldn't pvp players like a source of stones based around their preferred play-style?0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
Better than 100%?
110%!
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Unlike PvE players who like to just do their PvE only; us PvPers are pretty versatile usually in that we can do both. In fact; we kind of have to all the time. Do you think those tower mages and keep guards just kill themselves?
Reason why I asked was I was wondering if any pvp players were dancing in their seats in excitement about going to the IC to kill mobs, and would think those players would rather have a source of stones based around the activity they enjoy doing more. The primary source of stones seems to be from mobs and I was wondering if on a whole pvp players were fine with content based around grinding pve, seems with these stones zos just added the alternative of killing people who have done the grinding instead. Wouldn't pvp players like a source of stones based around their preferred play-style?
Its not really going to be grinding for a lot of PvPers. Some will grind with the thrill of PvP being possible. Others will go for the PvP and just kill mobs along their way to find other players. It doesn't really matter as that is what we do now. We attack a keep, a lot of times looking for surprise and the first things to go down are the guards. PvP happens when the enemy sees it and responds. Or we push back and forth and the NPCs just get run over along the way.2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Unlike PvE players who like to just do their PvE only; us PvPers are pretty versatile usually in that we can do both. In fact; we kind of have to all the time. Do you think those tower mages and keep guards just kill themselves?
Reason why I asked was I was wondering if any pvp players were dancing in their seats in excitement about going to the IC to kill mobs, and would think those players would rather have a source of stones based around the activity they enjoy doing more. The primary source of stones seems to be from mobs and I was wondering if on a whole pvp players were fine with content based around grinding pve, seems with these stones zos just added the alternative of killing people who have done the grinding instead. Wouldn't pvp players like a source of stones based around their preferred play-style?
On the whole, no.
Cyrodiil in its present format also does not appeal to PvP players on the whole though.
Many PvP players have left over time for that reason.
PvP players have a lot of styles; with Imperial City there will be a new one available adding to diversity.
Perhaps a PvE parallel would be like when ZOS first added Trials, which were a different style of PvE gameplay than the rest of the game, and appeals to a certain group.
Personally looking really forward to seeing a future for the idea @ZOS_Brianwheeler posted a while back regarding implementing different instances of small-scale PvP around the Cyrodiil quest hubs.
Imperial City stands to be an improvement though.
Have no idea how they will instance it, but if it ends up on a different server cluster from Cyrodiil proper in order to reduce lag, then look really forward to being able to jump back and forth between playstyles based on how population is doing throughout the day."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
Unlike PvE players who like to just do their PvE only; us PvPers are pretty versatile usually in that we can do both. In fact; we kind of have to all the time. Do you think those tower mages and keep guards just kill themselves?
Reason why I asked was I was wondering if any pvp players were dancing in their seats in excitement about going to the IC to kill mobs, and would think those players would rather have a source of stones based around the activity they enjoy doing more. The primary source of stones seems to be from mobs and I was wondering if on a whole pvp players were fine with content based around grinding pve, seems with these stones zos just added the alternative of killing people who have done the grinding instead. Wouldn't pvp players like a source of stones based around their preferred play-style?
Its not really going to be grinding for a lot of PvPers. Some will grind with the thrill of PvP being possible. Others will go for the PvP and just kill mobs along their way to find other players. It doesn't really matter as that is what we do now. We attack a keep, a lot of times looking for surprise and the first things to go down are the guards. PvP happens when the enemy sees it and responds. Or we push back and forth and the NPCs just get run over along the way.
My main point here is there doesn't seem to be a pvp focused way to get stones that doesn't somehow stem from either running daily quest and opening the rewards in the IC, or killing large numbers of mobs. Its odd that such a pvp focused piece of content would require that without some other point in the background.
And @Samadhi, I hope we see a good outcome for this new game style, and not see the community rip itself to shreds on the dribble of information ZOS feels like baiting us with. Hope the next round of 'information' will help remove some of the fuel from these fires and not add to it.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm all for it and I'm not at all the best at PVP.
Something with some level of tactics and difficulty is needed. And this is definitely a good move. They also said things may change depending upon feedback from the PTS. So, if you don't like this, download the PTS and make yourself heard rather than having endless complaint threads here.
Honestly, I gave up trying to make myself heard with the whole CP issue. People still grinding, people still botting, still no caps, still way to catch up. It is pay to win by any other name, but who cares.
Forcing PVE players to PVP to access paid content shouldn't need an internet campaign. The universally bad-idea-ness of it should be self evident.
Its self evident alright. The problem is those that disagree with you are
A.) Trolling the forums taking up the devils advocate position because they get a kick out of riling up those that are genuinely bothered by the mechanic.
B.) Genuinely enjoy causing others to suffer and see this as an opportunity to make themselves feel more powerful by targeting those that are unsuspecting or level/gear wise weaker then they are. Basically the mentally ill.
C.) Have never played an MMO let alone one with griefer mechanics and think its awesome because they dont know better.
D.) Have played MMOs with these sort of mechanics and have become accustomed to them but dont realize that the mechanic is a niche playstyle that wont be supported by the majority of players that have become accustomed to the playstyle this game has offered up to this point.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »...
D.) Have played MMOs with these sort of mechanics and have become accustomed to them but dont realize that the mechanic is a niche playstyle that wont be supported by the majority of players that have become accustomed to the playstyle this game has offered up to this point.
Heh.
The world of P2W full-loot PvP; where dropping someone in open world meant potentially receiving an item they had spent several hundred dollars on.
Really puts into perspective how even 100% stone drop rate is basically just a slap on the wrist."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok this game has some great rewards for thinking outside the box. And we should encourage it. That being said I STRONGLY DISAGREE with the 100 Percent loss. Why? Might you ask. Well for one its not outside the box. So to be outside of it by a wide margin I suggest a 200 Percent loss. That's right a negative credit of stones. Now they will have to farm double. One to pay off the negative balance and the other to break even. Oh and just like modern finances. A late fee will be incurred for not making a timely payment on the negative balance. 24.5% Interest accrued daily.
We should encourage participation in the IC.
My concern is LAG that's right our Friend LAG today the most awesomests battles were killed to death by lag and lags friend Lagmaster Flash.
3000 Ping WAT @ZOS how why and when will this be fixed. Its not going to go away just because you hide under the blankets and bite the pillows to muffle your screams. This will have to be addressed. Technical Debt Accrues much like the above Interest I proposed.
If its a combination of Print Screens and Lag Switces then you need to work on it some more. OR IC is going to go BOOM before the First Carebear Invasion can even make it to the First stage of GANKTACULAR!!!2 -
Etharian✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?
qft1 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »
If pvp'ers are so into the new stone system and lets say that no pve focused players enter the IC, how would you have any stones to fight over? As is I think the system is dependent on pve players getting stones so they can be ganked and then the pvp players can finally fight over the stones. Wouldn't pvp players like to, idk, pvp for their stones, rather than gank pve'ers?
I don't know what you are talking about? Do you think 500 PvPers usually sit around in Cyrodiil and camp the quest locations ganking PvErs? We will all be fighting each other (and mobs) all the time, that's the point. You think PvErs are the only people who can kill regular piece of *** mobs?
qft
Some ( a very few) may camp at quest locations but its very few. To much to do take keeps, fight off zergs, plot to take scrolls,defend bridges. destroy siege engines, defend keeps, take bridges. a lot to do and no time to make a measley 500 ap off of a single person picking up or turning in a quest.
It's not that bad PVE people your biggest enemy is Lag and Complacency. Honestly Upper craglorn is more vicious with the Crux wars.
0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »...
D.) Have played MMOs with these sort of mechanics and have become accustomed to them but dont realize that the mechanic is a niche playstyle that wont be supported by the majority of players that have become accustomed to the playstyle this game has offered up to this point.
Heh.
The world of P2W full-loot PvP; where dropping someone in open world meant potentially receiving an item they had spent several hundred dollars on.
Really puts into perspective how even 100% stone drop rate is basically just a slap on the wrist.
To you maybe. But there isnt a person in my circle of friends playing ESO on PS4 that finds this mechanic interesting. I can account for at least 10 people beyond me that wont be getting this update. And most of them are PvPers.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »...
D.) Have played MMOs with these sort of mechanics and have become accustomed to them but dont realize that the mechanic is a niche playstyle that wont be supported by the majority of players that have become accustomed to the playstyle this game has offered up to this point.
Heh.
The world of P2W full-loot PvP; where dropping someone in open world meant potentially receiving an item they had spent several hundred dollars on.
Really puts into perspective how even 100% stone drop rate is basically just a slap on the wrist.
To you maybe. But there isnt a person in my circle of friends playing ESO on PS4 that finds this mechanic interesting. I can account for at least 10 people beyond me that wont be getting this update. And most of them are PvPers.
Well, play on PC so will not be seeing you there anyway, but regret that you feel dissatisfied with the update.
Not everything works for everyone -- for instance, I have never completed Craglorn's questline, never ran a trial, never done an Undaunted Pledge.
Am personally hoping to see friends and guildmates come back who have left since launch -- the fact that Cyrodiil offered so little diversity has driven many away.
Imperial City improves on that.
Sure, it's not Arena PvP; however, it's something new and different, and in a flavour that has been requested since launch."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
2 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
Better than 100%?
110%!
I was thinking more along the lines of 50%. Since they'll res back up in a safe zone and then probably bank, at least if they've been grinding for a considerable amount of time they don't leave completely empty handed because some macro spammer ganked them in 10s and completely undid an hour or more of grinding.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
Better than 100%?
110%!
I was thinking more along the lines of 50%. Since they'll res back up in a safe zone and then probably bank, at least if they've been grinding for a considerable amount of time they don't leave completely empty handed because some macro spammer ganked them in 10s and completely undid an hour or more of grinding.
This would cause everyone to just run around with a 4x stone multiplier at all times. Because why willingly lose 75% of your stones(by using a 1x multiplier) when on death you only lose 50%? The risk vs reward mechanic of the stone multiplier would not work.
Let's say the % loss on death is 50%
You kill for a certain amount of time with a 1x multiplier(banking after every 100 stones collected). You earn 10000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% stones you had on you at the time(50 stones lost). Profit is 9950 stones.
You kill for the same amount of time with a 4x multiplier. You earn 40000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% of the stones you have on you(20.000 stones lost). Profit is 20000 stones.
Why would you ever not use the 4x multiplier?3 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
Better than 100%?
110%!
I was thinking more along the lines of 50%. Since they'll res back up in a safe zone and then probably bank, at least if they've been grinding for a considerable amount of time they don't leave completely empty handed because some macro spammer ganked them in 10s and completely undid an hour or more of grinding.
This would cause everyone to just run around with a 4x stone multiplier at all times. Because why willingly lose 75% of your stones(by using a 1x multiplier) when on death you only lose 50%? The risk vs reward mechanic of the stone multiplier would not work.
Let's say the % loss on death is 50%
You kill for a certain amount of time with a 1x multiplier(banking after every 100 stones collected). You earn 10000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% stones you had on you at the time(50 stones lost). Profit is 9950 stones.
You kill for the same amount of time with a 4x multiplier. You earn 40000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% of the stones you have on you(20.000 stones lost). Profit is 20000 stones.
Why would you ever not use the 4x multiplier?
Well for one, to reach the 4x multiplier requires 10,000 stones, during that time you may get killed multiple times and lose 50% of what you've accumulated each time, lowering the multiplier when you dip below thresholds It's going to take awhile to even reach 4x, longer if you get killed and keep trying for it. But when you lose 50%, you still have some left over so you can continue to try to get more, or bank what you have and still come out ahead of where you started.
With 100% loss, you go out, grind and quest for an hour, accumulate a few thousand stones, and then get ganked once.
You've just lost that entire hour, you should have just not even logged in, so you cut your losses and just log out. There's no real motivation to keep going since you're starting from square 1.
0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »
There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.Dekken_Blake wrote: »So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?
See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:
That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.
Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.
Better than 100%?
110%!
I was thinking more along the lines of 50%. Since they'll res back up in a safe zone and then probably bank, at least if they've been grinding for a considerable amount of time they don't leave completely empty handed because some macro spammer ganked them in 10s and completely undid an hour or more of grinding.
This would cause everyone to just run around with a 4x stone multiplier at all times. Because why willingly lose 75% of your stones(by using a 1x multiplier) when on death you only lose 50%? The risk vs reward mechanic of the stone multiplier would not work.
Let's say the % loss on death is 50%
You kill for a certain amount of time with a 1x multiplier(banking after every 100 stones collected). You earn 10000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% stones you had on you at the time(50 stones lost). Profit is 9950 stones.
You kill for the same amount of time with a 4x multiplier. You earn 40000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% of the stones you have on you(20.000 stones lost). Profit is 20000 stones.
Why would you ever not use the 4x multiplier?
Well for one, to reach the 4x multiplier requires 10,000 stones, during that time you may get killed multiple times and lose 50% of what you've accumulated each time, lowering the multiplier when you dip below thresholds It's going to take awhile to even reach 4x, longer if you get killed and keep trying for it. But when you lose 50%, you still have some left over so you can continue to try to get more, or bank what you have and still come out ahead of where you started.
With 100% loss, you go out, grind and quest for an hour, accumulate a few thousand stones, and then get ganked once.
You've just lost that entire hour, you should have just not even logged in, so you cut your losses and just log out. There's no real motivation to keep going since you're starting from square 1.
You missed the point i was trying to make(which is my fault for not explaining it clearly enough, so please don't take offense).
Yes, it will take a while to reach the 4x multiplier, and yes, you will get killed multiple times during that time, but with only 50% stone loss on death, at no point will it be more profitable to stay safe with a lower multiplier. It will always be more profitable to just keep all the stones on you, because you will never lose more to death than you gain from having a higher multiplier.
What was supposed to be a tricky decision (do i play it safe, or do i risk more so i can gain more) instead becomes a no-brainer (going for high multiplier will always result in more stones, regardless of deaths)Edited by Sharee on July 20, 2015 11:20AM2 -
Contraptions✭✭✭✭✭I would rather they take out the multiplier bonus for having more stones, since any system that has allows the number of stone to grow exponentially always runs the risk of farming getting out of hand.
I suggest a reverse of this: make it if you have fewer stones the percentage you lose is lower, so the more you carry, the more you stand to lose when you die.Patroller and Editor at UESP0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Contraptions wrote: »I would rather they take out the multiplier bonus for having more stones, since any system that has allows the number of stone to grow exponentially always runs the risk of farming getting out of hand.
I suggest a reverse of this: make it if you have fewer stones the percentage you lose is lower, so the more you carry, the more you stand to lose when you die.
The original concept rewards taking a risk. The more stones you risk losing, the more stones you gain.
Your proposed system does not reward you for taking the risk, it just punishes you for not turning around and running to banker everytime you collect 50 stones, over and over. Fun times.2 -
Contraptions✭✭✭✭✭Contraptions wrote: »I would rather they take out the multiplier bonus for having more stones, since any system that has allows the number of stone to grow exponentially always runs the risk of farming getting out of hand.
I suggest a reverse of this: make it if you have fewer stones the percentage you lose is lower, so the more you carry, the more you stand to lose when you die.
The original concept rewards taking a risk. The more stones you risk losing, the more stones you gain.
Your proposed system does not reward you for taking the risk, it just punishes you for not turning around and running to banker everytime you collect 50 stones, over and over. Fun times.
How does this differ from the original system? If I was not the type of person to take a risk I would be banking my stones as often as possible anyway. I choose not to risk it in the field, so my stone intake is slower, since I have to constantly run back and forth from the bank.
And if I was a risk taker, I would farm more and more, knowing that as my amount increases my chance of losing it all does too. More time continuously spent in the field = more risk = faster rate of stones earned since there are less interruptions.
The increasing percentage there is because I personally think that having your progress wiped, no matter how much you earned, is extremely disheartening. The system I proposed puts diminishing returns on death, meaning that when you die, you lose your progress, but you should never be left empty handed even if you do constantly die.
IMO the penalty for death should be proportional to how much you have currently. NOT a flat 100%. A bit like income taxes lol.Patroller and Editor at UESP0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You've just lost that entire hour, you should have just not even logged in, so you cut your losses and just log out. There's no real motivation to keep going since you're starting from square 1.
It seems people overlook all the other loot besides TV stones you get for playing PvE in the IC which you will not get for sticking to PvP. New armor sets, motifs, trait stones, common items to decraft for new materials. Those are all acquired through PvE and will not be dropped on death.
Leaving your playsession with 0 TV stones is hardly a waste of time.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Contraptions wrote: »Contraptions wrote: »I would rather they take out the multiplier bonus for having more stones, since any system that has allows the number of stone to grow exponentially always runs the risk of farming getting out of hand.
I suggest a reverse of this: make it if you have fewer stones the percentage you lose is lower, so the more you carry, the more you stand to lose when you die.
The original concept rewards taking a risk. The more stones you risk losing, the more stones you gain.
Your proposed system does not reward you for taking the risk, it just punishes you for not turning around and running to banker everytime you collect 50 stones, over and over. Fun times.
How does this differ from the original system? If I was not the type of person to take a risk I would be banking my stones as often as possible anyway. I choose not to risk it in the field, so my stone intake is slower, since I have to constantly run back and forth from the bank.
And if I was a risk taker, I would farm more and more, knowing that as my amount increases my chance of losing it all does too. More time continuously spent in the field = more risk = faster rate of stones earned since there are less interruptions.
The increasing percentage there is because I personally think that having your progress wiped, no matter how much you earned, is extremely disheartening. The system I proposed puts diminishing returns on death, meaning that when you die, you lose your progress, but you should never be left empty handed even if you do constantly die.
IMO the penalty for death should be proportional to how much you have currently. NOT a flat 100%. A bit like income taxes lol.
Imagine you go into the zone, and farm mobs for 10 minutes.
Farming for the next 10 minutes after that, you gain exactly the same amount of stones, but you risk losing more
Farming yet another 10 minutes, you again gain exactly the same amount as in the previous 10 minutes, yet you risk losing even more.
Your risk keeps continually increasing, yet you are not rewarded for the increased risk in any way, your stone income stays constant.
There is an ever-increasing risk, but the corresponding reward is missing. The original system on the other hand increases the reward along with the increased risk. That is how your proposed system differs from the original system.0
