Obligitory KEEP THE 100% LOSS thread.

Cously

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Soulharvester

I will be your banker for the stones!

I do like the risk however! Adds some excitement to things. Reminds of red server pvp where you can lose alot more than some stones!

DDuke

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

Kind of like a PvP only player going to do Undaunted pledges or Trials to "enjoy" the game, makes no sense.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

Merlight

Contraptions wrote: »

How does this differ from the original system? If I was not the type of person to take a risk I would be banking my stones as often as possible anyway. I choose not to risk it in the field, so my stone intake is slower, since I have to constantly run back and forth from the bank.

And if I was a risk taker, I would farm more and more, knowing that as my amount increases my chance of losing it all does too. More time continuously spent in the field = more risk = faster rate of stones earned since there are less interruptions.

The increasing percentage there is because I personally think that having your progress wiped, no matter how much you earned, is extremely disheartening. The system I proposed puts diminishing returns on death, meaning that when you die, you lose your progress, but you should never be left empty handed even if you do constantly die.

I had to think about this for a while, as it looks very similar at first sight. But it does differ, actually. The multiplier system invites you to grow a higher multiplier before you take on a boss. Your system does not, quite the contrary - go out flat broke -> kill a boss -> bank. Rinse & repeat.

Why should someone be rewarded for constantly dying?

Contraptions wrote: »

IMO the penalty for death should be proportional to how much you have currently. NOT a flat 100%. A bit like income taxes lol.

IMO shis should be out of the discussion, already.

Let's have another example. A group of 4 with 0 stones goes hunting. They encounter another group of 4 currently fighting a boss. In the multiplier system, the other group probably has a lot of stones. In your system, they probably only have a few from killing adds. Anyway, the hunting group engages, kills 1 or 2 guys, but they ultimately fail and die. Their risk was zero, yet they scraped some stones. Do you really wish to reward failure?

Cously

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

DDuke

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

Cously

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

You clearly misunderstood my point, the suggestion was not to remove the PVE/PVP zone, just make ONE instance non-PVP. It wouldn't affect you at all. Players who don't enjoy PVP don't go Cyrodiil anyways because of the PVP content despite being PVE content there. The goal is give options. And as I mentioned there would be no stones, no AP and many rewards could easily be nerfed for the PVE version. Much like the PVP system of justice system that should have come. People could opt out of it by not commiting crimes or not wearing tabards. And much like dungeon scaling. People who just want to enjoy the story and *** scale it to low level and get crap rewards of it. Hardcores scales to highest level to get the best reward. Clearly the audience we are were not enough to keep the game sub model. By opening the game to more people with DIMINISHED rewards, you would get a large population.

WolffenBloodseeker

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

Cyrodiil is like a open world pvp/pve game, you can do whatever you like but you can always be attacked by enemies and that creates an environment where you need to always be on your guard, unless you want to die, to take PVP out of Cyrodiil is to take all the lore of the alliance war and throw it in the trash, they create this lore, this gamezone to be a PVP/PVE mix and it should stay like this, it's working the way it was designed, if you don't like just don't play it simple enough no?

I'm a PVE/PVP player, i play solo, i play in groups, with guilds, sometimes i do the PVP objectives, sometimes i go to Cyrodiil only to enjoy my time, explore, do some quests, and i NEVER, repeat, NEVER have been killed while in the middle of dialogue and i ALWAYS listen to all dialogue, i don't like to skip it, sure many times i have been attacked but i always had enough time to close the dialogue box and fight back, the enemy caught me OF GUARD, it is only fair that he got the upper hand in the fight, sometimes i died to a better player or when he lured me into a trap with some friends and some times i won and in both cases even made friends from other alliances with this, there are bad players everywhere just like bad people on RL but most of the PVP community in ESO is friendly and respect each other, they are there to win a fight just like myself, i never enter one with the intention of losing it

Just one example from my latest experience, a few days ago i was trying to complete a quest and level up my last vet rank in this delve in Cyrodiil, in the middle of it i found an enemy player, we did battle and he won, i came back 2 times and all of then he won (once i got close but not enough), on the last time i was defeated he sent me a PM worrying if i was mad at him for all the deaths, i said hell no, complimented him for his skills and we talked and became friends, i told what i was doing there and he told what he was doing there (leveling some skills to morph), i returned later and we sat there and talked for a while, cleared the cave together, we talked about our builds and he gave me some advices, it was lots of fun, later a player from another alliance showed up and we all 3 battled, i died again but guess what, the world didn't ended, i had lots of fun and that's what mater

tip: don't go to a warzone if you don't want to get your hands dirty in the war, it is just one zone in the middle of all other zones that are pure PVE, you don't have to force yourself into it if you don't like it

DDuke

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

You clearly misunderstood my point, the suggestion was not to remove the PVE/PVP zone, just make ONE instance non-PVP. It wouldn't affect you at all. Players who don't enjoy PVP don't go Cyrodiil anyways because of the PVP content despite being PVE content there. The goal is give options. And as I mentioned there would be no stones, no AP and many rewards could easily be nerfed for the PVE version. Much like the PVP system of justice system that should have come. People could opt out of it by not commiting crimes or not wearing tabards. And much like dungeon scaling. People who just want to enjoy the story and *** scale it to low level and get crap rewards of it. Hardcores scales to highest level to get the best reward. Clearly the audience we are were not enough to keep the game sub model. By opening the game to more people with DIMINISHED rewards, you would get a large population.

You already have around 90% of the game tailored for your kind of audience.

If this game had open world PvP everywhere and separate PvE & PvP servers, I would agree with you, though that's a dated model for a MMO.

I do get your point of view however, you want to complete the quests etc without getting ganked in the process. You'll still be able to do so, though it likely takes more tries than you'd like to complete those quests.

Just think of enemy players as roaming, highly intelligent mobs.


Luckily, once you're done with those quests you never have to come back.

Inconvenient? Maybe, but not as inconvenient as revamping all reward structures, scaling, balance etc would be to make your solution work, and it'd likely draw criticism from people who hate scaling.

Cously

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

Cyrodiil is like a open world pvp/pve game, you can do whatever you like but you can always be attacked by enemies and that creates an environment where you need to always be on your guard, unless you want to die, to take PVP out of Cyrodiil is to take all the lore of the alliance war and throw it in the trash, they create this lore, this gamezone to be a PVP/PVE mix and it should stay like this, it's working the way it was designed, if you don't like just don't play it simple enough no?

I'm a PVE/PVP player, i play solo, i play in groups, with guilds, sometimes i do the PVP objectives, sometimes i go to Cyrodiil only to enjoy my time, explore, do some quests, and i NEVER, repeat, NEVER have been killed while in the middle of dialogue and i ALWAYS listen to all dialogue, i don't like to skip it, sure many times i have been attacked but i always had enough time to close the dialogue box and fight back, the enemy caught me OF GUARD, it is only fair that he got the upper hand in the fight, sometimes i died to a better player or when he lured me into a trap with some friends and some times i won and in both cases even made friends from other alliances with this, there are bad players everywhere just like bad people on RL but most of the PVP community in ESO is friendly and respect each other, they are there to win a fight just like myself, i never enter one with the intention of losing it

Just one example from my latest experience, a few days ago i was trying to complete a quest and level up my last vet rank in this delve in Cyrodiil, in the middle of it i found an enemy player, we did battle and he won, i came back 2 times and all of then he won (once i got close but not enough), on the last time i was defeated he sent me a PM worrying if i was mad at him for all the deaths, i said hell no, complimented him for his skills and we talked and became friends, i told what i was doing there and he told what he was doing there (leveling some skills to morph), i returned later and we sat there and talked for a while, cleared the cave together, we talked about our builds and he gave me some advices, it was lots of fun, later a player from another alliance showed up and we all 3 battled, i died again but guess what, the world didn't ended, i had lots of fun and that's what mater

tip: don't go to a warzone if you don't want to get your hands dirty in the war, it is just one zone in the middle of all other zones that are pure PVE, you don't have to force yourself into it if you don't like it

Ohh yes, the same realism that makes us fight for other factions in Cadwell's Silver/Gold. Again, I can't see how a PVE only instance/campaign of Cyrodiil would affect you. The goal here is make ESO a more desirable game, more people, more money, more content. The long term goal is beyond your own or mine preferences. And yes, I'll never understand how give options to all sides will hurt each other if done right.

Cously

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

You clearly misunderstood my point, the suggestion was not to remove the PVE/PVP zone, just make ONE instance non-PVP. It wouldn't affect you at all. Players who don't enjoy PVP don't go Cyrodiil anyways because of the PVP content despite being PVE content there. The goal is give options. And as I mentioned there would be no stones, no AP and many rewards could easily be nerfed for the PVE version. Much like the PVP system of justice system that should have come. People could opt out of it by not commiting crimes or not wearing tabards. And much like dungeon scaling. People who just want to enjoy the story and *** scale it to low level and get crap rewards of it. Hardcores scales to highest level to get the best reward. Clearly the audience we are were not enough to keep the game sub model. By opening the game to more people with DIMINISHED rewards, you would get a large population.

You already have around 90% of the game tailored for your kind of audience.

If this game had open world PvP everywhere and separate PvE & PvP servers, I would agree with you, though that's a dated model for a MMO.

I do get your point of view however, you want to complete the quests etc without getting ganked in the process. You'll still be able to do so, though it likely takes more tries than you'd like to complete those quests.

Just think of enemy players as roaming, highly intelligent mobs.


Luckily, once you're done with those quests you never have to come back.

Inconvenient? Maybe, but not as inconvenient as revamping all reward structures, scaling, balance etc would be to make your solution work, and it'd likely draw criticism from people who hate scaling.

If you are against giving options to people to make the game a more sucessful endeavor, I can't argue with you on that. They are revamping and scaling the whole game already, so much for inconvenience. I completed every possible goal in Cyrodiil, it's my end game since I do enjoy PVP and have the resources to invest on it. The way I see it we could have optional PVE, PVP and PVE/RP in the entire game whilst giving options to people. Everyone would profit from it. Duesl, optional. Justice System, optional. Cyrodiil, optional. Nobody would be able to complain because everything would be optional.

DDuke

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

You clearly misunderstood my point, the suggestion was not to remove the PVE/PVP zone, just make ONE instance non-PVP. It wouldn't affect you at all. Players who don't enjoy PVP don't go Cyrodiil anyways because of the PVP content despite being PVE content there. The goal is give options. And as I mentioned there would be no stones, no AP and many rewards could easily be nerfed for the PVE version. Much like the PVP system of justice system that should have come. People could opt out of it by not commiting crimes or not wearing tabards. And much like dungeon scaling. People who just want to enjoy the story and *** scale it to low level and get crap rewards of it. Hardcores scales to highest level to get the best reward. Clearly the audience we are were not enough to keep the game sub model. By opening the game to more people with DIMINISHED rewards, you would get a large population.

You already have around 90% of the game tailored for your kind of audience.

If this game had open world PvP everywhere and separate PvE & PvP servers, I would agree with you, though that's a dated model for a MMO.

I do get your point of view however, you want to complete the quests etc without getting ganked in the process. You'll still be able to do so, though it likely takes more tries than you'd like to complete those quests.

Just think of enemy players as roaming, highly intelligent mobs.


Luckily, once you're done with those quests you never have to come back.

Inconvenient? Maybe, but not as inconvenient as revamping all reward structures, scaling, balance etc would be to make your solution work, and it'd likely draw criticism from people who hate scaling.

If you are against giving options to people to make the game a more sucessful endeavor, I can't argue with you on that. They are revamping and scaling the whole game already, so much for inconvenience. I completed every possible goal in Cyrodiil, it's my end game since I do enjoy PVP and have the resources to invest on it. The way I see it we could have optional PVE, PVP and PVE/RP in the entire game whilst giving options to people. Everyone would profit from it. Duesl, optional. Justice System, optional. Cyrodiil, optional. Nobody would be able to complain because everything would be optional.

But you see, that's how it is already. Everything is optional, and there's something for everyone.

Whether there's a specific version of each content released for different demographics is another matter and I'd say too much asked (it'd also separate the playerbase, which isn't something you look for when making MMOs).

Most convenient solution would be separate PvE, RP & PvP servers, but that's not something we have (or, in my opinion, should have).

Lionxoft

Rosveen wrote: »

To keep the game going, both sides need to have fun. If you lower the number to 50% (or something else, discuss), winners keep their rewards and thrill of the kill, but losers don't feel like their effort was completely wasted. Do you think it would be better than 100%?

Rich Lambert, Creative Director, stated that if PvE players aren't satisfied with the Imperial City then that is fine. It's a pvp update and one that the pvp community has waited on for a while. Orsinium will be more intended for them.

Cously

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

What if you just skip Cyrodiil altogether, and focus on other content if you can't stand PvP? Or get people to guard you (safety in numbers).

There are people who enjoy both PvE & PvP, so it is ignorant to paint a black & white picture of where content is either for player group Z or X, when it could just as well be for Y, or Y/Z, or X/Y. You get the idea.

Also, "PvE players" aren't making campaigns full, I rarely see anyone doing PvE in Cyrodiil (except in CWC). Not that it'd matter, these people can be attacked and thus it makes no difference whether they're "PvE", or "PvP" players (or both, as many are).

If you made a PvE version of Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you'd run into the problem where one group is able to get all rewards with none of the risk involved. Also, I can only imagine how places like CWC would be in there...


Lastly, by your logic: why can't PvP players port into Spindleclutch or Sanctum Ophidia and gank players inside?

You clearly misunderstood my point, the suggestion was not to remove the PVE/PVP zone, just make ONE instance non-PVP. It wouldn't affect you at all. Players who don't enjoy PVP don't go Cyrodiil anyways because of the PVP content despite being PVE content there. The goal is give options. And as I mentioned there would be no stones, no AP and many rewards could easily be nerfed for the PVE version. Much like the PVP system of justice system that should have come. People could opt out of it by not commiting crimes or not wearing tabards. And much like dungeon scaling. People who just want to enjoy the story and *** scale it to low level and get crap rewards of it. Hardcores scales to highest level to get the best reward. Clearly the audience we are were not enough to keep the game sub model. By opening the game to more people with DIMINISHED rewards, you would get a large population.

You already have around 90% of the game tailored for your kind of audience.

If this game had open world PvP everywhere and separate PvE & PvP servers, I would agree with you, though that's a dated model for a MMO.

I do get your point of view however, you want to complete the quests etc without getting ganked in the process. You'll still be able to do so, though it likely takes more tries than you'd like to complete those quests.

Just think of enemy players as roaming, highly intelligent mobs.


Luckily, once you're done with those quests you never have to come back.

Inconvenient? Maybe, but not as inconvenient as revamping all reward structures, scaling, balance etc would be to make your solution work, and it'd likely draw criticism from people who hate scaling.

If you are against giving options to people to make the game a more sucessful endeavor, I can't argue with you on that. They are revamping and scaling the whole game already, so much for inconvenience. I completed every possible goal in Cyrodiil, it's my end game since I do enjoy PVP and have the resources to invest on it. The way I see it we could have optional PVE, PVP and PVE/RP in the entire game whilst giving options to people. Everyone would profit from it. Duesl, optional. Justice System, optional. Cyrodiil, optional. Nobody would be able to complain because everything would be optional.

But you see, that's how it is already. Everything is optional, and there's something for everyone.

Whether there's a specific version of each content released for different demographics is another matter and I'd say too much asked (it'd also separate the playerbase, which isn't something you look for when making MMOs).

Most convenient solution would be separate PvE, RP & PvP servers, but that's not something we have (or, in my opinion, should have).

I just think we could have so much more. The PVP people would be happy with an area they can access like Cyrodiil. The PVE people would be happy playing their PVE in a safe enviroment including Cyrodiil since half of it is PVE anyways and is an iconic location. The roleplayers are happy already with dyes and being able to use emotes and cosmetics.

As a PVPer you could have justice system in its full glory. Want to be able to catch people? Put tabard on. Kill them or die. Want to opt out of justice system? Be a law abiding citizen. Do either people lose content? No.

As a PVPer you could have duels. Press F to intereact with target -> Duel. Target press F for accept or X to decline. Very healthy enviroment to test your builds in faction with nobody to disturb it, no excuses, no interference. Do either people lose content? No.

As PVEr you could go Cyrodiil and do your stuff there in a campaign with PVP disabled much like the justice system is disabled in Cyrodiil and Coldharbour. Make the Carebear's Plane of Oblivion campaign. No AP. No stones. Very low XP from delves.

As PVPer you can join a campaign with not only justice system enabled with your own faction being able to hunt you but the full glory of PVP in the Nightmare's Plane of Oblivion campaign. All AP. All stones. Very high xp from delves. Very high competition from players with a single goal, PVP.

As a starter PVPer you can join a campaign with NO CP at all. Just battle level. Basically Blackwater Blade with no CP. Learn use your tactics, skills, develop in a safe competitive balanced enviroment. Got VR? Son, it's time to go out and go to the real front lines! Or by all means make a vet campaign NO CP.

All those with rewards scaled on risk. Less risk, less or crap rewards. More risk, best rewards. How in hell would that affect anyone? Does it really matters to you what goes on in Blackwater Blade now, or other campaigns for that matter? I know it doesn't matter to me. Whatever my need is I'd have a place to go. Want to just relax with my guildies and fishing free in Cyrodiil? Awesome, join Carebear camp.

There no need for separate servers, just campaigns. When you have a game where to raise the PVP population you have to strip everyone from options...it's not a good game. People should PVP because they want not because what they love to do, enjoy the game, look at the scenary or whatever, is locked behind an enviroment where more than skill plays. Numbers, CPs, peak time, alliance controling gates that are locked for that sweet skyshard, etc.

"Luckily, once you're done with those quests you never have to come back."

It's a very sad statement. Is that what we want for this game?

Diamond_10

Looting of items from someone belongs in failed *** games such as Darkfall, not in ESO.

michaelb14a_ESO2

Anhedonie wrote: »

You don't drop AP, yet people are attracted to PVPing in Cyro

/sigh

If only...

/goes back to waiting for Camelot Unchained

Arato

Sharee wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Dekken_Blake wrote: »

So I may have missed this, but how are stones obtained on player kills? Do you automatically get the stones, or do you have to loot? Also, do you split them with a group or do the stones only go to the player that delivers the killing blow?

See for yourself here starting at min 58:23:

There's only a passing comment about PvP Looting of Tel Var Stones, so nothing's entirely certain at this stage.

That is the point; getting all worked up about what may or may not make it to live is pretty ridiculous. They are saying pretty clearly more than once they will need to see how this plays out on PTS.

Getting worked up about it and voicing concerns early is how you might get something changed for the better before its too late. Waiting till it hits live and "just wait and see" .. well they'll have moved on to other things so getting changes then it could take a year before any changes are made.

Better than 100%?

110%!

I was thinking more along the lines of 50%. Since they'll res back up in a safe zone and then probably bank, at least if they've been grinding for a considerable amount of time they don't leave completely empty handed because some macro spammer ganked them in 10s and completely undid an hour or more of grinding.

This would cause everyone to just run around with a 4x stone multiplier at all times. Because why willingly lose 75% of your stones(by using a 1x multiplier) when on death you only lose 50%? The risk vs reward mechanic of the stone multiplier would not work.

Let's say the % loss on death is 50%
You kill for a certain amount of time with a 1x multiplier(banking after every 100 stones collected). You earn 10000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% stones you had on you at the time(50 stones lost). Profit is 9950 stones.

You kill for the same amount of time with a 4x multiplier. You earn 40000 stones total. You die. You lose 50% of the stones you have on you(20.000 stones lost). Profit is 20000 stones.

Why would you ever not use the 4x multiplier?

Well for one, to reach the 4x multiplier requires 10,000 stones, during that time you may get killed multiple times and lose 50% of what you've accumulated each time, lowering the multiplier when you dip below thresholds It's going to take awhile to even reach 4x, longer if you get killed and keep trying for it. But when you lose 50%, you still have some left over so you can continue to try to get more, or bank what you have and still come out ahead of where you started.

With 100% loss, you go out, grind and quest for an hour, accumulate a few thousand stones, and then get ganked once.

You've just lost that entire hour, you should have just not even logged in, so you cut your losses and just log out. There's no real motivation to keep going since you're starting from square 1.

You missed the point i was trying to make(which is my fault for not explaining it clearly enough, so please don't take offense).

Yes, it will take a while to reach the 4x multiplier, and yes, you will get killed multiple times during that time, but with only 50% stone loss on death, at no point will it be more profitable to stay safe with a lower multiplier. It will always be more profitable to just keep all the stones on you, because you will never lose more to death than you gain from having a higher multiplier.

What was supposed to be a tricky decision (do i play it safe, or do i risk more so i can gain more) instead becomes a no-brainer (going for high multiplier will always result in more stones, regardless of deaths)

Then the real problem is the multiplier. Perhaps the best solution would be to have an option to disable multipliers with the benefit being you lose less on PVP death.

If you're going to say "well just bank more often" that's not a good solution because you generally have to go back on foot to your base, and that's ample opportunity to lose everything, and the teleport stones are relatively expensive and have a long cast time and reveal yourself, also presenting too much opportunity to lose everything.

This kind of gameplay only appeals to the same people who play Diablo hardcore mode, for most people, they don't even want to play if they're going to lose everything to a chance death. I don't even bother. I have no motivation to play for hundreds of hours when a single lag spike can mean I might as well never have created the character and done something else for those hundreds of hours.

GreySix

IMO, if you want true risk in PvP, then there's only one way to accomplish it:

If your character dies, it is utterly and finally finished ... permanently dead - no gold - no CP - no anything - all gone.

Start over in the soul dungeon, at the character creation screen.

Anything else is weak sauce for lily-livered milk-drinkers. Any "true" PvP'er who opposes this is weak.

All in, or nothing at all!

Samadhi

Cously wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Make a PVE only Cyrodiil without the stones. PVE players would be happy to do their PVE things and enjoy the game, the scenario, without being harmed. PVP players would have a Cyrodiil of PVP players only. Give choice to people. Honestly, the only ones I see complaining about this idea are those too afraid to face 100% PVP interested players...because they need to rely on killing the vulnerable PVE players who go to Cyrodiil enjoy the game...

Perhaps the mistake of these PvE only players was going into a PvP zone to "enjoy" the game.

What you're proposing is like asking WoW devs to make an Alterac Valley or a Warsong Gulch without any PvP.

It's not a mistake. Really, how can you enjoy a quest line for instance if in the middle of dialogue you might be killed. What if you have a disability but still want to enjoy the PVE portion of Cyrodiil in a slow pace. What if...etc. I saw several people over these months complain how PVE players were "making their campaigns full"...Wouldn't that suit both sides? Why do you need PVE players in your PVP area anyways. Easy prey? How a choice being given to others would affect your gameplay?

Am out of work on disability, and have found no issues with enjoying the PvE portion of Cyrodiil at a relaxed pace.

Cyrodiil quest hubs and dungeons are my current favourite content in the game.

Looking forward to Imperial City in its current format.

RustedValor

GreySix wrote: »

IMO, if you want true risk in PvP, then there's only one way to accomplish it:

If your character dies, it is utterly and finally finished ... permanently dead - no gold - no CP - no anything - all gone.

Start over in the soul dungeon, at the character creation screen.

Anything else is weak sauce for lily-livered milk-drinkers. Any "true" PvP'er who opposes this is weak.

All in, or nothing at all!

Good idea, lets also extend this to PvE. Diablo 2 Hardcore was the only way to go lol.

Sharee

Nevermind, been said already.

Celestrael

+1 for KEEP IT.

Don't fold to the cryers, ZOS!

Korozenn

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, with so many ways to SECURE the Tel-Var stones as is, there needs to be some element of risk reward and some incentive for people to seek out PvP and make it interesting.

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones).
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing.

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in.

This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind.

Give this guy a cookie!

I agree wholeheartedly. The 100% Tel-Var Stone drop was surprising to me at first and had me appalled for a good couple of days, but I came to realize why it's good as it is. We'll know more of how things go with this system when the PTS update goes live before July 31st. I'm getting my new character ready for it right now, as a matter of fact.

Great job with your post!

KerinKor

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

Quit demanding OTHERS play what YOU like .. many PVEers HATE PVP WITH A PASSION and nothing will coerce us to do it.

It's people with attitude like yours towards the casuals that make the PVP crowd so loathesome.

Sharee

KerinKor wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

Quit demanding OTHERS play what YOU like .. many PVEers HATE PVP WITH A PASSION and nothing will coerce us to do it.

I didn't see him demand anything.

Samadhi

KerinKor wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

Quit demanding OTHERS play what YOU like .. many PVEers HATE PVP WITH A PASSION and nothing will coerce us to do it.

It's people with attitude like yours towards the casuals that make the PVP crowd so loathesome.

"Casuals" refers to non-hardcore PvPers.

He is saying that people who are interested in PvP but are not "hardcore" can join a large group because there is safety in numbers.

He did not tell anyone to play content they did not like.

If you vehemently object to PvP, please do not enter Imperial City.

DDuke

KerinKor wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

Quit demanding OTHERS play what YOU like .. many PVEers HATE PVP WITH A PASSION and nothing will coerce us to do it.

It's people with attitude like yours towards the casuals that make the PVP crowd so loathesome.

Only people demanding here are the haters, who want this whole DLC be about them and their playstyle.

This DLC brings two new group dungeons in case you can't stand PvP at all and scales every group dungeon to V16, the main focus just happens to be a risk/reward style PvP game mode where you collect stones & turn them in before you're killed and they're taken from you.

This particular game mode is very popular & well received in MOBAs & one of the most requested things in every MMO. Instead of having it apply to everywhere in this game's PvP (Cyrodiil), they add a specific zone for it, making it an option for the people who enjoy it, without forcing it on people who don't (which would be the case if existing content started applying this mechanic).


TLDR: all complaints condensed: - "they add content, but it's for other people not me, so QQ"

Rylana

Soulshine wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

You know what this thread really tells me

There are an awful lot of super elitist smug pve players that know the moment a PvP player is involved, their unwarranted sense of self importance gets kicked down the crapper and they finally get to see just how much they actually suck at the game and knowledge of mechanics.

Get used to it, your days of getting best in slot gear from easy/predictable mechanics are over.

Perhaps your attitudes will kick down a peg now.

I hate to break this to you, but you do realize that there are no "super elitist smug pve players" actually left to play ESO, right?

They all left after I told them all the super elite smug PvPers QQ'fested in beta that Doshia was just too hard waaa-waaa.... : P

I kid.

But do lighten up amigo, looking like you have a chip on your shoulder is most unbecoming and just puts you on par with those same people.

Yeah I do have a chip, most of the broken crap in Cyro never gets fixed because the moment a thread is made the PvE centrists swoop in and demand nothing changes because it would affect their precious speedruns or DPS meters.

technohic

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

You don't drop AP, yet people are attracted to PVPing in Cyro

/sigh

If only...

/goes back to waiting for Camelot Unchained

Beta has been pushed back from August to maybe next year.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

-1 Do NOT keep the 100% loss - it should be zero.