DDuke wrote: »

Let's be honest, one thing none (ok, maybe very, very few) of us wanted is "more of the same": zerg, zerg, die (whatever), respawn, zerg, zerg.

But quite a few PvPers seem to think that's what you're going to get, because in a form of PvP where losing actually matters, they know there will always be a "safety in numbers" approach.

Tandor wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You are not going to change the mind of those who feel it is perfectly OK to force PvE on people with stuff like Trials, Craglorn, Orsinium, Murkmire, but feel it is a historically bad decision to have a single update cater to PvP players.

Seemingly you're never going to be able to change the mind of those who cannot accept that most PvErs are delighted that additional content has been provided at last for PvPers while feeling that it is inappropriate to gate additional PvE content behind that PvP content.

Plenty of PvErs have said they're pleased that new PvP content is forthcoming, they just don't see why it has to be imposed on them in order to access the PvE content that comes with it and which is critical to their advancing through the new levels.

As for those PvPers who complain about having to level up through PvE content in order to be competitive at PvP, they have three simple options. They can lobby ZOS to allow the creation of instant max level characters who are only able to log into PvP zones (think original Guild Wars), they can lobby ZOS for open world FFA PvP servers (say one for each platform combining both NA and EU players - it might cause performance issues but separate NA and EU servers would probably not attract enough players to make them viable), or if they really don't like PvE at all they can play those MMOs that don't require it in order to PvP (think Darkfall, Eve etc). There are some pure PvP games out there, they're just usually very unpopular because most PvPers also like to do some PvE. Most MMOs that have introduced PvP servers have had to close them down again because they're not viable. Such players should certainly be backing Camelot Unchained.

What all the threads on Imperial City demonstrate is that PvP and PvE are both popular in their own right but don't generally mix together well, and that is the challenge for ZOS with Imperial City. As it's paid-for content they're really going to have to find ways of attracting as many PvPers and PvEers to it as possible in order to maximise their revenue and that is no easy task.

It is not gated thought. As has been stated you can port in and out of the new dungeons without ever stepping foot into a pvp area.

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You are not going to change the mind of those who feel it is perfectly OK to force PvE on people with stuff like Trials, Craglorn, Orsinium, Murkmire, but feel it is a historically bad decision to have a single update cater to PvP players.

Seemingly you're never going to be able to change the mind of those who cannot accept that most PvErs are delighted that additional content has been provided at last for PvPers while feeling that it is inappropriate to gate additional PvE content behind that PvP content.

Plenty of PvErs have said they're pleased that new PvP content is forthcoming, they just don't see why it has to be imposed on them in order to access the PvE content that comes with it and which is critical to their advancing through the new levels.

As for those PvPers who complain about having to level up through PvE content in order to be competitive at PvP, they have three simple options. They can lobby ZOS to allow the creation of instant max level characters who are only able to log into PvP zones (think original Guild Wars), they can lobby ZOS for open world FFA PvP servers (say one for each platform combining both NA and EU players - it might cause performance issues but separate NA and EU servers would probably not attract enough players to make them viable), or if they really don't like PvE at all they can play those MMOs that don't require it in order to PvP (think Darkfall, Eve etc). There are some pure PvP games out there, they're just usually very unpopular because most PvPers also like to do some PvE. Most MMOs that have introduced PvP servers have had to close them down again because they're not viable. Such players should certainly be backing Camelot Unchained.

What all the threads on Imperial City demonstrate is that PvP and PvE are both popular in their own right but don't generally mix together well, and that is the challenge for ZOS with Imperial City. As it's paid-for content they're really going to have to find ways of attracting as many PvPers and PvEers to it as possible in order to maximise their revenue and that is no easy task.

It is not gated thought. As has been stated you can port in and out of the new dungeons without ever stepping foot into a pvp area.

The dungeons are a small part of the PvE content and are only directly accessible once you have found them or have a group that can summon you to them - as I understand it. They won't provide an effective means of leveling from VR14 to VR16. For this there are a number of zones with quests and a main Imperial City storyline, and these are only accessible through Cyrodiil and are mainly PvP zones themselves. I'm delighted there is additional PvP content, I couldn't be clearer on that. I'm simply unhappy that the PvE content is gated behind it.

Nyghthowler wrote: »

@OP; thanks for the link. I enjoy Elloas' videos. But, players aren't freaking over lack of content for PvE'ers. They are freaking over the new currency being lootable by gankers. The new currency is the only way to purchase the new (non craftable ) armors, as I understand it. Some people don't like loosing precious hours of game play to a system they don't want to participate in.

You don't lose "hours", you get tons of stones by just playing a few minutes.

Is this really the first "loot able" MMO that you guys play? Such games are based on looting a lot fast. If you think that you must play 10 hours for a stone, then you are very wrong.

You will acquire stones quickly and you can lose them quickly, no harm done to anyone. Even with 200 stones, all you probably lost is 5 minutes of your time.

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

QueenAyrenn wrote: »

Annra wrote: »

Even for me as a PvP-player this expansion is uninteresting, simply because I don't want to lose anything if I die in PvP, regardless if it's only one stone or 100 percent.

^^ This. This isn't making things interesting for the majority of PvPers. All you're going to see is a lot more people trying to steer clear of other players, basically just seeing PvP become even duller. People like to get into engagements, and see how well they do, but in the end, there will only be one victor, and for those that aren't 100% sure it'll be them, they won't even want to bother.

It will really only be fun for a handful of players, mostly high-level PvPers who won't have to worry all that much. There may be a few people that aren't high level PvPers that think the currency system will be great because they'll lose something when they die, and good for you, but that logic isn't widespread, I assure you. Most people that play PvP know that you win and lose, and losing is how you learn, but punishing someone because they lose doesn't encourage learning, which doesn't lead to winning. They will, in turn, most likely stop playing PvP.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

If you aren't a high level PvPer, then your best strategy will probably be turning those stones in at close intervals, rather than staying out & using the multiplier to your advantage. Also, if you manage to kill one of those high-level PvPers, you're likely to see a crap ton of stones drop from them (how awesome is that? )!

Let's be honest, one thing none (ok, maybe very, very few) of us wanted is "more of the same": zerg, zerg, die (whatever), respawn, zerg, zerg.

It's still there for the PvPers who enjoy it, outside Imperial City, but I for instance welcome the added variety with open arms and poll suggests quite a few feel the same way.

You can also try to join a group to make the trip back home.
We might finally have a reason to play with other players (It's weird in a modern MMORPG, I know, but why not).

I think the core demographic of the IC isn't the PvE players or the PvP players, but the MMORPG players, those who generally do both alternatively. It will be fun to group up to do some PvE events in the IC and then go in stealth mode and try to hunt some other players.

Nah, its the PVE players...Thinking otherwise is wishful thinking I believe.

Nice video... but while it makes some good points it fails to address my concerns.

I am a crafter, I get no small amount of satisfaction in sending off other players in shiny new armour with weapons and enchantments tailored to their specific desires so that they can be awesome in combat.

Up to this point I have never been in a position where I couldn't fulfill an order. No crafting area was too difficult to get to, no material was out of the reach of normal play. Crafting was inclusive.

Now? With IC we are going to have crafting stations that, while safe themselves, will not be safe to get to or from (from the sounds of things). We will have materials that will be dependent on either TV stones, running dungeons to break down gear or buying the materials at, what I suspect will inevitably be, even more inflated prices.

I will have to buy the materials from guild stores. I, personally, grew bored of PvP when it was text based in 1997 (with full loot mechanics). I have no desire to do that ever again.

My 5 guild slots are filled with 4 trade and 1 fallen RP that myself and a couple of others are desperately trying to revive...

... dropping a guild and joining an entirely new one just so they can provide an escort so I can do the equivalent of going shopping? No.

This is my point. The crafting extensions in this DLC are exclusive, not inclusive. I do not see this as a good thing, and @Elloa's video, while interesting and useful to many, does nothing to deal with these concerns. I have said it elsewhere, I am more than happy that PvP is getting this update. I will not be buying it. It is not for me. If VR16 crafting materials and set stations are available in Wrothgar then I will have no concerns about this update whatsoever.

...if they aren't available in Wrothgar and the set stations and materials are exclusive to IC? Then this is yet another kick in the teeth to crafters and a very sad reflection on ZOS's claim about crafting importance in this game.