ZOS-Base PVP is your answer

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

Rakshat · July 2015

Yup, that would be amazing.

Not sure about gear though, it's part of your build.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Rakshat wrote: »

Yup, that would be amazing.

Not sure about gear though, it's part of your build.

good point, will make an edit

Rhakon · July 2015

Rakshat wrote: »

Yup, that would be amazing.

Not sure about gear though, it's part of your build.

gear should be part but the quality should not matter.

Garwulf · July 2015

Essentially you are arguing for PVP being every one equal. A level 10 and a VR 14+ being on absolutely the same footing with essentially no need to PVE at all .
Whilst I would argue that the number of champion points you can get every day should be capped to 1 ( except if you have excess enlightenment) I cannot see the real point of your post. No one in real life is equal. Armies are not made up of equal people nor equal equiptment. Cyrodiil is meant to be a War Zone not a one on one arena. Ask for a One on One arena with your capping requirements. That would make some sense.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference, the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

That's great and all but isn't true. Your skill bars are just that.... your ability loadout. Your build comprises class and race choice along with the equipment and gear sets you chose to complement the skill bars you wanted to run with. Additionally, there are huge meta aspects to the gear, skills, time spent testing and brainstorming to find out what works well for you, and the customization that affords alongside your ability bars. If you want to have exactly the same of everything, a first person shooter or moba like league of legends is better suited to your desires. Though even there you'll find that flavor of the month ends up superseding customization or ability loadouts, and in most first person shooters you have to progress to get the best equipment nowadays in any case. I recommend trying the non veteran campaigns if you want to eschew most of the RPG part of Elder Scrolls Online.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

I dont want to be equal i want moaaaaaaar power.

And usually i gank vr5+ with my vr2 and i still win even if i'm a lower level, the best is when sorcerers vr14 cast theyr meteor to one shot me and i just send it back with def posture .

Have the same level, stats and resouces is not archieve balance is just push noobs to the power that i already have and my power ( or another one) is what they seek tru leveling and it is a reward for play a game.

Maybe i will consider an arena 1v1 at your conditions.

Zhoyzu · July 2015

why not post this in the pvp forum where it belongs?

That way Zo$ can ignore it like every other pvp thread on these forums.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I dont want to be equal i want moaaaaaaar power.

And usually i gank vr5+ with my vr2 and i still win even if i'm a lower level, the best is when sorcerers vr14 cast theyr meteor to one shot me and i just send it back with def posture .

Have the same level, stats and resouces is not archieve balance is just push noobs to the power that i already have and my power ( or another one) is what they seek tru leveling and it is a reward for play a game.

Maybe i will consider an arena 1v1 at your conditions.

Really, the complaint amounts to wanting to be boosted to where some skilled players have gotten to where we have the best sets available and most skill line specials (many do, at least) such as the alliance war ones or undaunted. The bolster system does a good job of allowing new players to reach a passable baseline to try it out. The rest is up to them. Or at least, it is right now.

If they have their way, raid tier and expensive pvp sets, skills that take effort and winning to unlock like vigor and alliance war 10 will be handed out to them. Oh... wait, vigor is being brought down to barely inside of the pvp skill line because of the complaints as of the next patch already

. Please don't take the RPG out of mmoRPG. Elder Scrolls is an RPG. This is an mmo version.

Zhoyzu wrote: »

why not post this in the pvp forum where it belongs?

That way Zo$ can ignore it like every other pvp thread on these forums.

The dollar sign thing never helped anyone's argument in the 90's when it was fashionable to say "M$" instead of the proper "MS" for Microsoft, you know

.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Not going to respond to all , but character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE. PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime"

phermitgb · July 2015

to the OP...

while I'm not entirely sure your "solution" really counts as a solution - I like the idea regardless. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a huge fan of PVP in any MMO for *precisely* the base reasons you mentioned.

The almost inherent sense of entitlement that comes from acquisition and progression of pvp-specific activities and rewards creates a segment of the pvp population that feels that they are ENTITLED to have this higher level of power/capacity not necessarily because they are more skilled, but more *committed* and invested, and that *equality* is comprised of forcing other people to devote the same amount of time and effort...etc...

mind you, I don't think this is necessarily an "untrue" point of view - there is definitely something to be said for being commensurately rewarded for the relative levels of time and effort you put into an activity. However, PVP is also inherently competitive (to varying degrees, of course, depending on your mindset, but it's built on a competitive foundation), and so this concept of reward-vs-timeinvested = power, and so this means that anyone that can't afford to (or doesn't want to) invest the same amount of time/effort is inherently at a disadvantage...in a competitive environment.

So, truth be told, I think your proposal actually *does* move closer to being a true *competitive* environment - in your system, everyone has the opportunity to test skill MORE-THAN time/effort-invested (although time/effort will still have an effect if only for muscle-memory and strategizing)

still, I KNOW you're going to get opposition from at least one set of pvp'ers (the ones that feel that there SHOULD be commensurate reward for time/effort invested - and they're not *inherently* wrong to want that) and, as a couple have mentioned above, the continued important of a sense of *progression* which extends into PVP as well as PVE - also not an *inherently* evil desire, although it does sort of undercut the *competitive* aspect in at least one respect

I digress often, but the point is - I *LIKE* your idea - it would definitely appeal to MY personal interests as far as PVP are concerned - but there will be arguments against, and at least *some* of those arguments will be equally valid, if not quite as *personally* satisfying to me as your idea is...

Slonekb05 · July 2015

phermitgb wrote: »

to the OP...

while I'm not entirely sure your "solution" really counts as a solution - I like the idea regardless. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a huge fan of PVP in any MMO for *precisely* the base reasons you mentioned.

The almost inherent sense of entitlement that comes from acquisition and progression of pvp-specific activities and rewards creates a segment of the pvp population that feels that they are ENTITLED to have this higher level of power/capacity not necessarily because they are more skilled, but more *committed* and invested, and that *equality* is comprised of forcing other people to devote the same amount of time and effort...etc...

mind you, I don't think this is necessarily an "untrue" point of view - there is definitely something to be said for being commensurately rewarded for the relative levels of time and effort you put into an activity. However, PVP is also inherently competitive (to varying degrees, of course, depending on your mindset, but it's built on a competitive foundation), and so this concept of reward-vs-timeinvested = power, and so this means that anyone that can't afford to (or doesn't want to) invest the same amount of time/effort is inherently at a disadvantage...in a competitive environment.

So, truth be told, I think your proposal actually *does* move closer to being a true *competitive* environment - in your system, everyone has the opportunity to test skill MORE-THAN time/effort-invested (although time/effort will still have an effect if only for muscle-memory and strategizing)

still, I KNOW you're going to get opposition from at least one set of pvp'ers (the ones that feel that there SHOULD be commensurate reward for time/effort invested - and they're not *inherently* wrong to want that) and, as a couple have mentioned above, the continued important of a sense of *progression* which extends into PVP as well as PVE - also not an *inherently* evil desire, although it does sort of undercut the *competitive* aspect in at least one respect

I digress often, but the point is - I *LIKE* your idea - it would definitely appeal to MY personal interests as far as PVP are concerned - but there will be arguments against, and at least *some* of those arguments will be equally valid, if not quite as *personally* satisfying to me as your idea is...

Enjoyed the read.

WolfgangArmadeus · July 2015

A pvp mode that is equal level based would be nice... possibly convert existing non-veteran pvp zones to a scaled zone,down scale veteran players, up-scale fresh players and nullify cp... they could keep the veteran zones for those who prefer the level/cp advantages...

I like the idea...

Slonekb05 · July 2015

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

A pvp mode that is equal level based would be nice... possibly convert existing non-veteran pvp zones to a scaled zone,down scale veteran players, up-scale fresh players and nullify cp... they could keep the veteran zones for those who prefer the level/cp advantages...

I like the idea...

exactly good sir.

phermitgb · July 2015

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

A pvp mode that is equal level based would be nice... possibly convert existing non-veteran pvp zones to a scaled zone,down scale veteran players, up-scale fresh players and nullify cp... they could keep the veteran zones for those who prefer the level/cp advantages...

I like the idea...

not specifically what wolfgang was referencing, but, he reminded me of another idea I had briefly when the Conan MMO was announced - I wondered just what kind of awful hell it would be like to play an all zone unrestricted PVP mmo (because, in my mind, if true brutish anarchy were to reign anywhere, it would be in the world of Hyboria) - I imagined that the whole point of the world would become about the worst kinds of people pushing their every effort into becoming the most dominant killers so that they could loot, kill and enslave every other player in the world except for the ones that were as *elite* as they were.

Truth be told, it would ONLY be appropriate in a world like Conan's, and it would make, I think, for an absolutely miserable gameplay experience for the vast majority of players. So I began imagining a system which could "balance" out worldwide anarchy-pvp while still providing a *relatively* safe space for non-dedicated-pvpers.

The idea I came up with was a sort of bounty system - Every pvp kill would measure both the killer and the victim - the higher power level the killer was over the victim (level, skill points, gear scores, etc) the greater degree of infamy the character would achieve. Infamy would essentially be a bounty that would be rewarded for the person that killed that infamous character.

Also, victims could be compensated, or even protected. Characters (even ones with high infamy scores) could essentially protect a would-be victim (think a damage siphon of sorts) while battling the would-be killer, or compensate a fallen victim on the field with gear or money - I never quite decided if they should earn a "good" bounty (vs the evil bounty) or just drop their current bounty.

Lastly, every pvp kill would also earn "honor" - Honor would ALSO hinge on how far apart the relative power levels of the two combatants were, but would be higher the closer the two combatants were - This would be actual pvp currency.

The idea was to make ganking low level people dangerously unprofitable (by making it more appealing to kill the ganker), encourage higher power level people to watch over lower power level people (by making it moderately profitable to do so) and encouraging people to seek out nearly equal encounters for highest profit.

Of course, every game system, you find people that look for ways to "game the system", and I have no doubt that there are flaws with this basic approach as well - but I find the best way to "balance" pvp is essentially to exploit basic humanity's "enlightened self interest" - you create balance by skewing the profit people find in PVP towards the most balanced encounters you can manage - the really greedy or materialistic pvp'ers, as well as the honestly competitive ones, will generally seek balance because they find it most rewarding (in challenge, for the honest competitive ones, in material, for the materialistic ones) - non-competitive pvp'ers are inherently seeking balanced encounters generally (because they don't have enough power to thoroughly over-power most people, and don't want to be thoroughly overpowered themselves), and the only people generally left to break the system are...well...usually jerks.

it's not a perfect solution by any means, and I'm by no means suggesting it for ESO particularly - just an idea I had about gamer pop-psychology and pvp game balance that Wolfgang reminded me of...

Farorin · July 2015

I like the idea of a level cap, and rather than CP not mattering, I like another idea I read about it being capped as well for PVP, that way we can still customise and play with it a bit.

Armour I don't agree with though, as that is an integral part of builds, and of customization.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Even if every player would be exactly the same in PVP, qq and whiners would still find something to cry about and demand nerf. Like for example the ping rate of every player in cyrio at any given moment will be forcefully increased to the ping of player that atm have it highest. LOL

You cant please PVPers, they will always demand something usually trying to break PVE with it (either on purpose or just because their minds cant comprehend there is a game outside of cyriodiil and its 75% of ESO).

They are already favouritised by ZOS and seems every whim of PVPers is an impulse for ZOS to act, and they always demand something. Nerf this, nerf that, change this, change that. They spit out general statements and when confronted with some precise information or real numbers they only defence is to call you out of casuals and noobs.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Even if every player would be exactly the same in PVP, qq and whiners would still find something to cry about and demand nerf. Like for example the ping rate of every player in cyrio at any given moment will be forcefully increased to the ping of player that atm have it highest. LOL

You cant please PVPers, they will always demand something usually trying to break PVE with it (either on purpose or just because their minds cant comprehend there is a game outside of cyriodiil and its 75% of ESO).

They are already favouritised by ZOS and seems every whim of PVPers is an impulse for ZOS to act, and they always demand something. Nerf this, nerf that, change this, change that. They spit out general statements and when confronted with some precise information or real numbers they only defence is to call you out of casuals and noobs.

Only because PVP ask BALANCE is not a reason to flag evry pvp player as a whiner, a lot of exploit and /ISSUES are shared between pve and pvp the only difference it that mobs don't ask for nerfs, so all the balance issues came from players in a pvp scenario because they notice it.

PVP is favourite? " We " get something in agoust after a year of base cyrodill while pve have a little more...

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I dont want to be equal i want moaaaaaaar power.

And usually i gank vr5+ with my vr2 and i still win even if i'm a lower level, the best is when sorcerers vr14 cast theyr meteor to one shot me and i just send it back with def posture .

Have the same level, stats and resouces is not archieve balance is just push noobs to the power that i already have and my power ( or another one) is what they seek tru leveling and it is a reward for play a game.

Maybe i will consider an arena 1v1 at your conditions.

Really, the complaint amounts to wanting to be boosted to where some skilled players have gotten to where we have the best sets available and most skill line specials (many do, at least) such as the alliance war ones or undaunted. The bolster system does a good job of allowing new players to reach a passable baseline to try it out. The rest is up to them. Or at least, it is right now.

If they have their way, raid tier and expensive pvp sets, skills that take effort and winning to unlock like vigor and alliance war 10 will be handed out to them. Oh... wait, vigor is being brought down to barely inside of the pvp skill line because of the complaints as of the next patch already . Please don't take the RPG out of mmoRPG. Elder Scrolls is an RPG. This is an mmo version.

Zhoyzu wrote: »

why not post this in the pvp forum where it belongs?

That way Zo$ can ignore it like every other pvp thread on these forums.

The dollar sign thing never helped anyone's argument in the 90's when it was fashionable to say "M$" instead of the proper "MS" for Microsoft, you know .

AMEN ^^

Slonekb05 · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Even if every player would be exactly the same in PVP, qq and whiners would still find something to cry about and demand nerf. Like for example the ping rate of every player in cyrio at any given moment will be forcefully increased to the ping of player that atm have it highest. LOL

You cant please PVPers, they will always demand something usually trying to break PVE with it (either on purpose or just because their minds cant comprehend there is a game outside of cyriodiil and its 75% of ESO).

They are already favouritised by ZOS and seems every whim of PVPers is an impulse for ZOS to act, and they always demand something. Nerf this, nerf that, change this, change that. They spit out general statements and when confronted with some precise information or real numbers they only defence is to call you out of casuals and noobs.

Agreed that if there were base PVP people would still complain, but we all understand people will always complain no matter what, but at least it would be conversations purely about class abilities, rather than CP/LV/Gear.

Avenias · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

This concept has already been tested and proved successful. Its called DOTA. 100% player skill based game.

However, its only wishful thinking if u think ZOS will actually implement pvp balance. PVP "MUST" stay imbalanced as its only target is existing players, not new players. If a random new player with a ton of skill can suddenly beat a veteran with less skill, then they will loose the Vet player, and ZOS has been milking them for a long time already. They will never do something that will make them loose their cash cows.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Not going to respond to all , but character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE. PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime"

It's not.

Also, mmorpg pvp usually has a lot of progression and goals to it. This game is relatively moderate compared to other big ones like WOW and RIFT.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

This concept has already been tested and proved successful. Its called DOTA. 100% player skill based game.

However, its only wishful thinking if u think ZOS will actually implement pvp balance. PVP "MUST" stay imbalanced as its only target is existing players, not new players. If a random new player with a ton of skill can suddenly beat a veteran with less skill, then they will loose the Vet player, and ZOS has been milking them for a long time already. They will never do something that will make them loose their cash cows.

They already can after playing a fairly short time during which they acquire basic gear and learn how to play in any case. New players , like any mmo, aren't handed out the best just for showing up. If you want pure statistical balance, play DOTA. There, though, it's 100% flavor of the month hero and build or bust, though

.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

This concept has already been tested and proved successful. Its called DOTA. 100% player skill based game.

However, its only wishful thinking if u think ZOS will actually implement pvp balance. PVP "MUST" stay imbalanced as its only target is existing players, not new players. If a random new player with a ton of skill can suddenly beat a veteran with less skill, then they will loose the Vet player, and ZOS has been milking them for a long time already. They will never do something that will make them loose their cash cows.

Just bad design, On consoles (ps4 myself) game is blowing up, consoles are what will drive this game from now on with its population. Just one man's opinion of course, but the PVP cant be geared towards keeping Vets on PC happy..that's why game was dieing, among other reasons of course.

Avenias · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

This concept has already been tested and proved successful. Its called DOTA. 100% player skill based game.

However, its only wishful thinking if u think ZOS will actually implement pvp balance. PVP "MUST" stay imbalanced as its only target is existing players, not new players. If a random new player with a ton of skill can suddenly beat a veteran with less skill, then they will loose the Vet player, and ZOS has been milking them for a long time already. They will never do something that will make them loose their cash cows.

They already can after playing a fairly short time during which they acquire basic gear and learn how to play in any case. New players , like any mmo, aren't handed out the best just for showing up. If you want pure statistical balance, play DOTA. There, though, it's 100% flavor of the month hero and build or bust, though .

Well, its debatable if you are talking about pvp with another casual player. The topic is discussing about Vets, particularly those that have invested over "500hrs" of grinding in the game as mentioned by the OP. For a new player to hop in, grab some basic gears, learn basic game-play and expect to beat them in pvp is close to nil.

Avenias · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Want to fix PVP for good? i mean actually FIX it, base PVP is your solution. IMO it should be universal to all campaigns, but would settle for separate base campaigns.

All player's are scaled to lv 50, Same stats. Your CP/LV/Gear make no difference( your passives that are based on heavy/med/light armor would still apply, "Armor" is what would be removed), the only thing that matter's is the skills you decide to have on your ability bar (build) and your actually quote unquote "Gaming skills". This would allow all players to be on equal footing, which is what the spirit of PVP in any game strives for. The counter argument to this is "What about character progression?" To that i say, that's what PVE is designed for. Only high Vet ranks with huge amounts of CP who love ganking lower LV's to get a false sense of superiority will argue this. Character progression should stay where it belongs in an MMORPG the PVE, PVP should not be my 500hr's of playtime against your 100Hr's ..makes no sense to base PVP on a system where "player skill" is a much smaller factor then "Playtime". Things don't have to be complicated to be the right answer.

Thank you for your time.

This concept has already been tested and proved successful. Its called DOTA. 100% player skill based game.

However, its only wishful thinking if u think ZOS will actually implement pvp balance. PVP "MUST" stay imbalanced as its only target is existing players, not new players. If a random new player with a ton of skill can suddenly beat a veteran with less skill, then they will loose the Vet player, and ZOS has been milking them for a long time already. They will never do something that will make them loose their cash cows.

Just bad design, On consoles (ps4 myself) game is blowing up, consoles are what will drive this game from now on with its population. Just one man's opinion of course, but the PVP cant be geared towards keeping Vets on PC happy..that's why game was dieing, among other reasons of course.

The difference between ESO and say a typical MMORPG these days is pay to win. Take for instance, neverwinter online just for arguments sake, the only way for a new player to beat a vet player in that game is to buy the way up, as almost everything in that game can be accessed faster by spending more money. In ESO, you can't do that as most the gears require a minimum x amount of time farming. On top of that, the champion system will further add to the grind that you will need to complete if you hope to be able to compete with these veteran players. All of these points to a simple fact that, ZOS neither expects nor do they want a new player to be able to beat a veteran player who has been playing the game "loyally" and spending money on it. That combined with the coming loot drops from killing other players confirms the fact that to ZOS, the only purpose of a new player in pvp is to satisfy a vet player's need to carry on playing the game.

RustedValor · July 2015

Champion points have no place in PVP. Gear, battle leveling, and skillpoints are enough progression for my taste, and allow build versitility. Most of the stuff they are changing to balance PVP comes from the imbalance of the champion system with reduced cost for dodging and infinite teleporting. These things would not be possible without CP. I agree 100% OP.

Hexos · July 2015

Play a different game OP.Maybe a MOBA, but not a PvE/PvP MMO. Honestly, the whole point of getting good gear in PvE for me is to be able to use it in PvP. Im not even a heavy PvPer but i totally disagree with equal footing in PvP. At least not in open PvP.

Hell I'm not even sure i like it in structured PvP...GW2 had that and i found it quite boring.

My character is an entity that i have developed. I like him. I put lots of time into him, why woudl i want him to be homoginized in order for you to feel like all is "fair".

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Hexos wrote: »

Play a different game OP.Maybe a MOBA, but not a PvE/PvP MMO. Honestly, the whole point of getting good gear in PvE for me is to be able to use it in PvP. Im not even a heavy PvPer but i totally disagree with equal footing in PvP. At least not in open PvP.

Hell I'm not even sure i like it in structured PvP...GW2 had that and i found it quite boring.

My character is an entity that i have developed. I like him. I put lots of time into him, why woudl i want him to be homoginized in order for you to feel like all is "fair".

Your entitled that opinion, but PVP is meant to be competitive yes? when PVP ceases to be competitive what is left? Its not pvp anymore, and that's what ESO has done. Its Playtime vs Playtime. That's not a proper system.

Hexos · July 2015

1v1 that is an issue. But this is open world group PvP. It's not that big of an issue.

Are you personally experiencing problems? or are you just watching the streamer's and thinking that all of Cyrodil is like that?

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Hexos wrote: »

1v1 that is an issue. But this is open world group PvP. It's not that big of an issue.

Are you personally experiencing problems? or are you just watching the streamer's and thinking that all of Cyrodil is like that?

Its combination of my exp/reading forum complaints/watching video examples. Good amount of data, i based OP on. They should try base pvp in a separate campaign ,and id bet my life that the campaigns population would hit max very quickly. Its a desired option

Arato · July 2015

Gear stats should be included but normalized

A person wearing a medium set with all stamina enchants with set bonuses that have 2 stamina increases it'd be 9 stamina enchants normalized to the same value regardless of armor quality, green or gold, level 10, or VR14.

CP should only apply to PVE.

PVP would be fun then.