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should trait research be bound to account?
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helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭noGood to have something slow, which needs planninig and preparation. Especially the ninth trait.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yesGood to have something slow, which needs planninig and preparation. Especially the ninth trait.
Don't you just buy the stuff off the Guild Stores and then click "research" like all the others?
For all the regular traits I had them all stored in my bank for several weeks before I could even research a lot of them. Just waiting for a timer to tick down for weeks is hardly a play-style I would tout as being good.
edit: If research timers are so great maybe we should ask ZoS to gate even more stuff behind them.
Found a motif? Double click and wait a month before you can actually use it. You have to "read it" after all.
Nice piece of leggings dropped from a dungeon? Sorry it needs to be tailored to fit you properly. Take it to a tailoring station and click "hem pants", and wait for 2 weeks.
Want to use a morphed skill? Go to a bed and "contemplate" your skill overnight.Edited by danno8 on July 15, 2015 9:25PM2 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭noI am curious then why people are okay with the champion point system being account based.
Who said we are OK with it?
I am fine with VR's sharing the CPs as I frequently switch between the 4 VR Alts that I have. CPs represent time invested in the game, not in a character. It is being allowed to use them on the 1 to 50 characters that I think is misguided. Crafting Research is time invested in a character.
To look at it another way, I could roll 8 alts, give them all 2 traits to learn and have every trait in the game learned in a week or two. Making Trait Research Account Wide is just a big ol Easy Button on the game.
Besides, not many of us run with our main crafters, we have a Crafting Alt, or two, and then we have our Mains.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭noNo because then only one character can ever earn the achievements associated to researching traits. If they did it'd just be a free achievement obtained up to 7 times with no effort and not truly an achievement. Nothing in life or virtual life works this easily you know and the quicker things go the less you have to do in the end...I vote yes to traits only, since traits are nothing more than a time wall. Literally.
Unlike AP gains, achievements, skill lines and other similar things, you don't have to be in-game doing anything in order to research traits. Literally, click the research button and log off for a month. It's pretty lame.
And it hardly entices people to play more.
You are forgetting you must OWN the trait in the first place.Edited by UltimaJoe777 on July 15, 2015 10:14PMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭no
No i didn't. I was in the first nirncrux wave and i built up a network of crafters and we interchanged the traits. I didn't buy a single trait.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yesUltimaJoe777 wrote: »No because then only one character can ever earn the achievements associated to researching traits. If they did it'd just be a free achievement obtained up to 7 times with no effort and not truly an achievement. Nothing in life or virtual life works this easily you know and the quicker things go the less you have to do in the end...I vote yes to traits only, since traits are nothing more than a time wall. Literally.
Unlike AP gains, achievements, skill lines and other similar things, you don't have to be in-game doing anything in order to research traits. Literally, click the research button and log off for a month. It's pretty lame.
And it hardly entices people to play more.
You are forgetting you must OWN the trait in the first place.
Which you get as a matter of course just playing the game. I think I had to by 1 or 2 trait pieces, that's it.
There is still virtually no gameplay involved in researching traits. It is all click and forget. Which is bad game play in my opinion.
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danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yes
No i didn't. I was in the first nirncrux wave and i built up a network of crafters and we interchanged the traits. I didn't buy a single trait.
That's cool.
I think ZoS made a mistake with Nirnhoned though. They made a particular trait harder to get, which makes it logically mean it should be stronger than others, which leads to making the other traits less desirable.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yesTo look at it another way, I could roll 8 alts, give them all 2 traits to learn and have every trait in the game learned in a week or two. Making Trait Research Account Wide is just a big ol Easy Button on the game.
I think the suggestion is that researching is account wide, so each additional trait you research still takes more time, even if you switch to another character.
It would need a bit of a rework with skill points and such.Edited by danno8 on July 15, 2015 10:54PM0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭noUltimaJoe777 wrote: »No because then only one character can ever earn the achievements associated to researching traits. If they did it'd just be a free achievement obtained up to 7 times with no effort and not truly an achievement. Nothing in life or virtual life works this easily you know and the quicker things go the less you have to do in the end...I vote yes to traits only, since traits are nothing more than a time wall. Literally.
Unlike AP gains, achievements, skill lines and other similar things, you don't have to be in-game doing anything in order to research traits. Literally, click the research button and log off for a month. It's pretty lame.
And it hardly entices people to play more.
You are forgetting you must OWN the trait in the first place.
Which you get as a matter of course just playing the game. I think I had to by 1 or 2 trait pieces, that's it.
There is still virtually no gameplay involved in researching traits. It is all click and forget. Which is bad game play in my opinion.
Nirnhoned, 'nuff said.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭noI like having my main a alchemy/provisioning master.
I'd rather player's be encouraged to have alternate character's.Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on July 15, 2015 11:13PMPS4 NA DC0 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭yesI voted yes because I want at least a way to transfer research. I lost interest in playing my crafter months ago, she was a mistake, but I can never delete her or replace her because I can't spend another year researching everything again. It's my least favorite character I would gladly delete - but also the only character I'm stuck with. It's annoying.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yesUltimaJoe777 wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »No because then only one character can ever earn the achievements associated to researching traits. If they did it'd just be a free achievement obtained up to 7 times with no effort and not truly an achievement. Nothing in life or virtual life works this easily you know and the quicker things go the less you have to do in the end...I vote yes to traits only, since traits are nothing more than a time wall. Literally.
Unlike AP gains, achievements, skill lines and other similar things, you don't have to be in-game doing anything in order to research traits. Literally, click the research button and log off for a month. It's pretty lame.
And it hardly entices people to play more.
You are forgetting you must OWN the trait in the first place.
Which you get as a matter of course just playing the game. I think I had to by 1 or 2 trait pieces, that's it.
There is still virtually no gameplay involved in researching traits. It is all click and forget. Which is bad game play in my opinion.
Nirnhoned, 'nuff said.
Then make the other 8 traits account wide? It seems you are agreeing that all the traits except nirnhoned require virtually no gameplay at all to acquire, unless staring at a timer passes as gameplay these days.0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭no
I had to stop and think how things WERE and how things ARE. There were rare normal traits in early game. Hunting nirncrux traits was difficult. But if i would start now, i would probably just buy the traits and research. So what you say that research is just time sink has some truth. That's how things are now. It wasn't so in early game. There was much more tinkering in crafting.
No i didn't. I was in the first nirncrux wave and i built up a network of crafters and we interchanged the traits. I didn't buy a single trait.
That's cool.
I think ZoS made a mistake with Nirnhoned though. They made a particular trait harder to get, which makes it logically mean it should be stronger than others, which leads to making the other traits less desirable.
But having said that, i don't like turning crafting even simpler. Instead I prefer ZOS adds new tinkering into crafting! Because many crafters are like that: tinkerers, collectors, greeders, hoarders, theorycrafters. So next trait should again need tinkering, be rare, need effort and time in game and not to be just a click and clock. The fix is not simplification but the opposite. We might again need different alts, where a mule researches the trait in six hours for copies and main researches it later for a month. Account-wide research would probably prevent that.
About nirn: I don't consider nirnhoned as an error, but a feature well done - while it lasted. Some normal traits are useful and regularly ordered. Nirn didn't spoil them. Some traits are bad but nirn didn't spoil them either - they were already bad. Nirn added something good for crafters. For awhile we were rewarded from our planning and effort. Now we are moving to state where everybody is a "master crafter", and i'll go to suspended animation until they find some cryptonite.
Edited by helediron on July 16, 2015 12:19AMOn hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
God-eater✭✭yesEnemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »No, each character is an individual.
And yet they all ride the same horse... and all have the same name over their head (consoles)... share a single bank (even cross-faction!)... when one of your characters joins a guild, they've all joined... yep, all individuals here. (not attacking you personally, EoC - just attacking the ZOS-logic that makes them think that we're all ok with waiting over a year to fully research Nirnhoned - and that's after getting to Vet levels in the first place)
I voted yes - trait research is an EVE-level time sink - otherwise we'd be required to do something else besides click a button then wait for a month.
"M'aiq is glad he has a compass. Makes it easy to find things. Much better than wandering around like a fool." - some cat I met on the road0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭noNot really needed since a player can swap items between characters with the bank. However I think the horse upgrades should be account wide since they can be bought from the crown store.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭noTrait research is a time sink, yes.
I see this as a good chance to change how traits are acquired rather than make them account-wide.
Make it so that trait research is an active process, perhaps retaining some of the time sink elements with a system such as this:
1) Each trait has stages that have to be completed to gain access to the trait for crafting.
(my initial thought is 4 but their might be tiered difficulty here with higher value traits needing more stages to be completed)
2) Each of these stages can be completed in any order.
(you might have something for stage 3 but haven't done 1&2 yet. This helps with that)
3) Integrate several different components that are requirements for each stage.
(So trait stones themselves could be brought back in at this stage to give them a secondary use. Also perhaps some raw materials, or one piece of equipment for each stage etc. they could get really creative here)
4) Make each stage take some time complete but not a month or so.
(Because the people who would burn the stages by having access to all of the materials are probably the same people who can do something similar under the existing system due to having Guild backing or similar... and while I don't like it mcuh, at least don't actually lose anything by it)
[Possible] 5) Make the trait available for crafting even after only the first stage has been completed but make the effect scale with stages complete (e.g. 1 Stage = 6.25%, 2 Stage = 25%, 3 Stage = 56.25%, 4 Stage = 100%).
(The increasing returns would incentivise completing it as opposed to a linear system that might have people concluding "near enough" at 80% or so)
...
Anyway, that is just an idea about how the Trait Research system could be changed so it was more hands-on while still not being account-wide.0 -
All things should be account wide, we should never log out but simply switch character names/textures
END OF LINE.1 -
Pizza_Magician wrote: »All things should be account wide, we should never log out but simply switch character names/textures
END OF LINE.
(i'm reading the above post as genuine and not a "troll" apologies if im wrong)
personally i don't think anything should be account wide - i just think it makes this game too easy -
its not like its very hard to level up as it is at the mo' - i was disappointed that it only took a month or so to get to level 50, i was kindda expecting a 6mth+ slog at least to get to ware i am now
i see no reason why there is a shared bank - or that anything should be shared between characters, what one character earns should not be available to others
but hay i can tell this comment is going to go down like a lead balloon
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭noyeah cause that way i can learn 72 things at the same time and completly devalue being a master crafter and crafted gear.
/sarcasm0