Tankqull wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Not sorc.

As per Eric Wrobel

Bolt Escape is being changed so that it will cost 50% more if you cast it in a row. This will now stack! So the cost will increase by 50%, then 100%, then 150% and so on.

Heaven forbid you can't run away without a penalty of some sort. Is that all you've got as to why ZOS hates sorcs? Yet crystal frags will still have it's same relative power (afaik) when compared to other abilities which it's currently hitting 19k+. I've never been hit by another ability for that much which wasn't an execute, from stealth or had a cast time.

Everyone can argue why their class is being shunned and it's really a waste of time to discuss but nerfing Sorc's ability to peace out with next to no penalty was necessary. Escape mechanics in general regardless of class or game for that matter are bull crap anyways. There's no reason why someone should be able to disengage whenever they want. If you're spending more time watching people run away than getting kills or being killed then that is complete garbage pvp.

Please spare me the sorc QQ.

-NBs can easily bow dodge roll + speed boost sprint and keep up w/ bolt escape forever. One of those movement mechanics is being nerfed, one is not.

-Nothing hitting as hard as frags? Sure, snipe and wrecking blow don't exist I guess.

You can't read at all Teargrants. You really do defend sorcs blindly. Let's try again.

Lionxoft wrote:

Escape mechanics in general regardless of class or game for that matter are bull crap anyways. There's no reason why someone should be able to disengage whenever they want. If you're spending more time watching people run away than getting kills or being killed then that is complete garbage pvp.

^^ This means that all escape mechanics regardless of class or game make for garbage pvp in my opinion.

and another part of the post where you didn't read at all

Lionxoft wrote:

I've never been hit by another ability for that much[/i][/b] which wasn't an execute, from stealth or had a cast time.

Wrecking blow and snipe both have a cast time. Although to this day I've never been hit by a snipe or wrecking blow for over 19k damage. Crystal frags can hit for 19k+ without using stealth and as an instant cast when proc'd which is more often than not when you cycle through buffs.

i havent been hit for more than 14,5k by frags(without wearing any nirn) since they fixed the multiple proc bug. while i´m regularily hit by 16-18k WB and snipes thx to light armor and or armorpierce(on my NB or DK).

Both of which have a cast time.

Bromburak wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Haters gonna hate , they don't evaluate and they never appreciate anything.

Everyone who played ESO from the beginning, knows that NB was broken.
No functioning skills, passives and forced by the game to play magicka builds.

If someone wants this time back, they clearly out of their mind and understand nothing from class development in ESO since this game was released.

And extrapolaters gonna extrapolate random crap I never implied. The discussion is about the state of classes now and in the future, not 12 months ago.

Do I need to remind you?

Out of context ...

So related to my quote, you are one of the haters that are saying ZOS does not hate the NB because they have improved this class.

You totally ignored the fact that NB was broken since release and just because he is strong now you assume that ZOS hates other classes. You make no sense and thats exactly the problem with players like you.

Instead evaluating and analyzing the reasons behind imbalance and decisions in overall class development, you just request enabling or disabling symptoms because you clearly have a wrong understanding and no solution to offer because you are just full of favorite class thinking instead seeing the big picture.

This is not the way how you improve games so players like you will always complain.
Haters gonna hate and they will never appreciate any kind of improvement because they only see their narrow minded class love perspective in a totally different context that is far away from reality.

You and Lionx hit enough nails on the head to build a Noah's Ark.

For the crystal frag thing the closest thing I can think of in comparison is classic Elemental Shaman from WoW, before the classes were turned into paste tail end of Cata. There was a passive talent that would give you a chance to proc an instant cast lightning bolt. It didn't even have to actually be CAST, it just fired off when the conditions were met. It didn't sit well with people that they could get pegged in quick succession for buckoos of damage with minimal effort, despite them trying to do everything in their ability to counter. I think the proc actually ended up getting reduced to either half damage or not being capable of a crit.

Now I don't think frags should have something THAT extreme happen, but maybe reduce the damage slightly while adding a debuff that weakens target spell resist or something of the like. Really instead of hard nerfs there should be a sort of tradeoff. Case in point that one stormcalling passive that had 'established' sorcs up in arms because they looked at the change and immediately saw NERF, but weighing it in with the rest of the sorc skillset, it actually ended up being an overall buff.

There's another oldschool WoW Mage ability that comes to mind concerning the proposed changes to BE. There's an arcane spell called Arcane Blast that deals increasing damage and the cost increases at a significant amount with each cast. I'm talking 300% range of base mana cost. It was styled in the sense that it would deal significant damage, but you could only spam it so much, so it became a tossup of do I want to spam it until my mana bar runs out then beg the nice druid to innervate your mana black hole, or do I want to try and weave attacks and change things around to maintain resources.

Maybe they should cut down the 4 second penalty to BE to 2 secs, so that a sorc is able to pop pop, attack attack attack, pop pop if needed, but if they feel they have to run like the dickens, then they can, they just can't be cheeky and loop back around so quickly if being pursued by very angry enemies.

Teargrants wrote: »

-NBs can easily bow dodge roll + speed boost sprint and keep up w/ bolt escape forever. One of those movement mechanics is being nerfed, one is not.

The Sorc never has been a glass canon, but a canon with great mobility, possible with class abilities only. As a Sorc I cannot expect to hit like a truck, while having shields on me like a mother ship and disappear with warp. It was a matter of time until such luxury habits will be changed.

Most of the NB canons survive and get away because of spamming dodge , a none class ability and not because of cloak that didn't work properly since release anyway.

You cannot blame classes taking advantage of global mechanics and abilities or think that ESO is only about damn clones don't knowing their class.

You need the same underlying rules, you cannot compare a strong Magicka class like a Sorc with a strong Stamina class like NB. Thats why the most important fix that ESO needs on a long run are easy access Magicka and Stamina synergies for all classes to offer more diversity and more ressource independency.

Teargrants wrote: »

You keep parroting "NB broken on release", so what? That was 15 months ago.

NB wasn't fixed at release it was broken at release ... Thats quite a difference.

Btw., if you want to improve Sorc or any other class, why does this mean that all other classes shouldn't any longer?

Lionxoft tried to explain this to you but you have ignored anything he said.
You have just confirmed again that you don't care about improving classes or balancing in general, you just have your narrow Sorc perspective.

Bromburak you're just going on like an auto reply script bot about me wanting to nerf NB or something. For every point made you simply come back with some tangential quip in a desperate attempt to remain offended. Please come back when you are willing to actually have a conversation about he words I say, instead of building up a bunch of straw men to burn.

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Not sorc.

As per Eric Wrobel

Bolt Escape is being changed so that it will cost 50% more if you cast it in a row. This will now stack! So the cost will increase by 50%, then 100%, then 150% and so on.

Heaven forbid you can't run away without a penalty of some sort. Is that all you've got as to why ZOS hates sorcs? Yet crystal frags will still have it's same relative power (afaik) when compared to other abilities which it's currently hitting 19k+. I've never been hit by another ability for that much which wasn't an execute, from stealth or had a cast time.

Everyone can argue why their class is being shunned and it's really a waste of time to discuss but nerfing Sorc's ability to peace out with next to no penalty was necessary. Escape mechanics in general regardless of class or game for that matter are bull crap anyways. There's no reason why someone should be able to disengage whenever they want. If you're spending more time watching people run away than getting kills or being killed then that is complete garbage pvp.

Either you are a NB. or you only run with zergs.



Heaven forbid NBs can't just cloak away without a penalty... oh wait... All is well! Not only does cloak remain untouched by the cost increase penalty, but now... Cloak is immune to detect pots!


Give cloak the exact bolt escape treatment, then it's fair game.

@Lionxoft Don't even bother with the forum-sorcs defending their class. They are blind to any critique about their class

Sorry for bad spelling ^^

Master_Kas wrote: »

Then make bolt escape unable to teleport you if someone uses AoE dmg when you bolt, and even have a skill that makes you unable to bolt like Piercing mark. Oh and also make cloak port us forward. Then you can give cloak the same treatment Deal ? You cannot compare two entireley diffrent escape mechanics, where one teleports you and you cannot really stop it from happening compared to cloak which ALOT of stuff can make USELESS (aoe, radiant magelight, and for now detectpots).

lol


I sure wish bolt escape made me invisible, break tab-target, and stop 90% of damage!. Cloak even stops gap-closers!


How about all the things that can stop bolt escape?(Critical charge, Shield charge, Petrify, Ambush, Toppling Charge, Rune Prison, Roll dodge with bow equipped)


Cloak? Aoe? lol. Unless it's a zerg covering the entire area... or you are trying to cloak in a very tight space and staying in that space to try and hide... AoE will take you out for a brief second, you can very VERY quickly re-cloak, cast blur, and be on your merry way.


The only thing that keeps cloak in check right now, is piercing mark and detect pots. Radiant magelight? lmao. We are talking about escape, not stalking your prey. It is very easy to outrun someone using radiant magelight with its pitiful radius. The only thing that will keep cloak in check in 1.7, will be piercing mark. Everyone has access to detect pots... only one class has access to piercing mark... Only Nightblades will keep Nightblades in check...




But even then... just cast purge! And presto-bingo, goodbye piercing mark!

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Not sorc.

As per Eric Wrobel

Bolt Escape is being changed so that it will cost 50% more if you cast it in a row. This will now stack! So the cost will increase by 50%, then 100%, then 150% and so on.

Heaven forbid you can't run away without a penalty of some sort. Is that all you've got as to why ZOS hates sorcs? Yet crystal frags will still have it's same relative power (afaik) when compared to other abilities which it's currently hitting 19k+. I've never been hit by another ability for that much which wasn't an execute, from stealth or had a cast time.

Everyone can argue why their class is being shunned and it's really a waste of time to discuss but nerfing Sorc's ability to peace out with next to no penalty was necessary. Escape mechanics in general regardless of class or game for that matter are bull crap anyways. There's no reason why someone should be able to disengage whenever they want. If you're spending more time watching people run away than getting kills or being killed then that is complete garbage pvp.

Either you are a NB. or you only run with zergs.



Heaven forbid NBs can't just cloak away without a penalty... oh wait... All is well! Not only does cloak remain untouched by the cost increase penalty, but now... Cloak is immune to detect pots!


Give cloak the exact bolt escape treatment, then it's fair game.

Then make bolt escape unable to teleport you if someone uses AoE dmg when you bolt, and even have a skill that makes you unable to bolt like Piercing mark. Oh and also make cloak port us forward. Then you can give cloak the same treatment Deal ? You cannot compare two entireley diffrent escape mechanics, where one teleports you and you cannot really stop it from happening compared to cloak which ALOT of stuff can make USELESS(aoe, radiant magelight, and for now detectpots).

Stop right there. I know NBs love to say that line and all, but it completely ignores the secondary effect of cloak - which is that it force misses almost all targeted dmg for a brief window similar to dodge roll. This is not effected by being 'detected'. And please tell me which aoe acts as a viable DD counter to cloak in 1v1 situations?

Soulac wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Haters gonna hate , they don't evaluate and they never appreciate anything.

Everyone who played ESO from the beginning, knows that NB was broken.
No functioning skills, passives and forced by the game to play magicka builds.

If someone wants this time back, they clearly out of their mind and understand nothing from class development in ESO since this game was released.

And extrapolaters gonna extrapolate random crap I never implied. The discussion is about the state of classes now and in the future, not 12 months ago.

Do I need to remind you?

tbh these are predictions based on stuff we heard on a live stream and aren´t even on PTS.
We barely heard anything at all or do you think they change two skills for every class and that´s it?

This poll only confirm one thing.....the ESO community have a lot of crying babies

Mom, mom the Nightblades are killing me!!! let's cry to forums instead L2P!!

I am Nightblade, and i get killed by Sorcerers, Templars and Dragonknights with the same way that i kill them

It's not the class, is the skill of the player....so stop cry

The worst of this, is that devs hear their cry finally, and nerf the classes....and we have other game broken more to cause of crying babies..

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

You must have not read where I think that all escapes create a garbage pvp experience. So I'll say it again but for the third time on this thread and to the second person that hasn't read it in context. All escapes regardless of class make for boring pvp. If you're experiencing more people running away than killing or being killed then that isn't fun. For me at least. I'm sure some people disagree but I'd go ahead and guess they are runners themselves.

Again, 19k crystal frags does not require stealth, can be an instant cast and also is not an execute. Give me an example that doesn't require stealth, execute range, ultimate or has a cast time. How many times in a keep battle or objective pvp are you attacking out of stealth where you gain the stealth damage bonus regardless of class? I'm sure it's a hell of a lot less than the amount of times crystal frags can proc with buffs in that duration.

You can repeat yourself again and again.


You keep saying escape shouldn't be a thing. Ok, so what then? We should all just zerg and die? Then you keep making these fallacious arguments justifying bolt escape getting triple-nerfed because a sorc can stack spell damage with dual wield and get 19k criticals on their frags.... which has nothing to do with "escape".


All i see is a very biased person, calling people whom disagree with him... biased as being a "runner." This is golden. And then going on about how escape is bad for PvP because sorcs can achieve 19k crits.

You're not seeing them as separate points and that's probably where your nearsighted thought process lost track. I understand you're upset that a great number of folks in the community agree with the bolt escape nerf as well as the lead combat designer at ZOS. Running away and disengaging from PvP is bad for the game regardless of class. Why even have a death mechanic in PvP if one can just escape?

Keep digging. You'll arrive at a point someday as to how I'm wrong but you might need to fully comprehend the original statement first in context with the conversation.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I think all classes are hated equally.

Not NB.

Not sorc.

As per Eric Wrobel

Bolt Escape is being changed so that it will cost 50% more if you cast it in a row. This will now stack! So the cost will increase by 50%, then 100%, then 150% and so on.

Heaven forbid you can't run away without a penalty of some sort. Is that all you've got as to why ZOS hates sorcs? Yet crystal frags will still have it's same relative power (afaik) when compared to other abilities which it's currently hitting 19k+. I've never been hit by another ability for that much which wasn't an execute, from stealth or had a cast time.

Everyone can argue why their class is being shunned and it's really a waste of time to discuss but nerfing Sorc's ability to peace out with next to no penalty was necessary. Escape mechanics in general regardless of class or game for that matter are bull crap anyways. There's no reason why someone should be able to disengage whenever they want. If you're spending more time watching people run away than getting kills or being killed then that is complete garbage pvp.

Either you are a NB. or you only run with zergs.



Heaven forbid NBs can't just cloak away without a penalty... oh wait... All is well! Not only does cloak remain untouched by the cost increase penalty, but now... Cloak is immune to detect pots!


Give cloak the exact bolt escape treatment, then it's fair game.

@Lord_Hev

I agree with your suggestion 100% as expressed in my previous statements in this thread. This is just further proof that you either a) can't read or b)choose not to. NO class should have an escape mechanic that basically allows them to reset or run away. PvP shouldn't be that forgiving otherwise why even have a death mechanic?

Also, it hurt my feelings a bit when you said I only run with zergs. I haven't even played small group pvp in about 7 months because it is all zergy to me. I prefer standing 1vs1 or 1vsX fights. None of this sneak around pew pew stuff or stack on crown and spam AOE. Both bore me to death.

See what happens when you actually read? You might even find out that you agree with someone!


Edit:
I just noticed this but someone from Deciblob just accused me of zerging. That double standard though.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cute sorc's and Nb's defending there Op classes, the only classes with a escape mechanic, you don't see dk's or templars crying about wanting an escape mechanic.

Nb's insta stealth were the only way i can figure to not be rampaged is to block, but wait thats getting nerfed.

Sorc's dmg/high shields and the ability to travel faster than mounts, too bad there's not a magicka regen nerf when casting or so.

Please don't complain, just give your feels to the templars especially.

A templar has options to stay, why would he escape with his kind of survival?
He cannot be a canon the same time though, thats exactly the point, you cannot have it all for a reason.

As well its the only class that really fits into trinity concept if you want to play him in groups.
There are many good reasons for him as supporter and healer. I would never compare him with NB or Sorc because of his design. A unique class imo well done.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cute sorc's and Nb's defending there Op classes, the only classes with a escape mechanic, you don't see dk's or templars crying about wanting an escape mechanic.

Nb's insta stealth were the only way i can figure to not be rampaged is to block, but wait thats getting nerfed.

Sorc's dmg/high shields and the ability to travel faster than mounts, too bad there's not a magicka regen nerf when casting or so.

Please don't complain, just give your feels to the templars especially.

Faster than a mount with BE? You must have a slow horse. Also if you use streak as transportation method you arrive at the fight with 0 magicka (or 0 stamina if you use Dark Deal) and you're certain to get your face melted in a few seconds because you cant cast any spells (block or dodge roll).

DKs and templars have viable tanking skills so they dont have to run. You dont see sorcs or NBs tanking 10+ guys, they melt in 2 seconds if they dont run. This is where the actual discussion starts because ZOS is nerfing BE so sorcs cant escape/preposition. NBs have multiple stacking speed buffs which makes it very hard to catch them when they cloak every 2.9 seconds.

The BE nerf will be a huge disadvantage for sorcs because we dont have nearly as much tanking capabilities as DKs and templars and the mobility (while in stealth) of NBs will be far superior to that of the sorcs. The logical conclusion is that sorcs will be a lot easier to kill after update 7 without gaining any major offensive buffs. The nirnhoned nerf will help ofc, but this will help all magicka builds equally.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cute sorc's and Nb's defending there Op classes, the only classes with a escape mechanic, you don't see dk's or templars crying about wanting an escape mechanic.

Nb's insta stealth were the only way i can figure to not be rampaged is to block, but wait thats getting nerfed.

Sorc's dmg/high shields and the ability to travel faster than mounts, too bad there's not a magicka regen nerf when casting or so.

Please don't complain, just give your feels to the templars especially.

Do u mean sorc don't need to block and dodge roll? All the nerfs applied to sorcs

But you're right about sorc shouldn't BE half of the map, the treatment is need.

However, DK and Templar can tank and kill while sorcs and NB can run and kill, that's how the game designed. Sure there're sorc can tank, but they gave up dps for the build.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cute sorc's and Nb's defending there Op classes, the only classes with a escape mechanic, you don't see dk's or templars crying about wanting an escape mechanic.

Nb's insta stealth were the only way i can figure to not be rampaged is to block, but wait thats getting nerfed.

Sorc's dmg/high shields and the ability to travel faster than mounts, too bad there's not a magicka regen nerf when casting or so.

Please don't complain, just give your feels to the templars especially.

Faster than a mount with BE? You must have a slow horse. Also if you use streak as transportation method you arrive at the fight with 0 magicka (or 0 stamina if you use Dark Deal) and you're certain to get your face melted in a few seconds because you cant cast any spells (block or dodge roll).

DKs and templars have viable tanking skills so they dont have to run. You dont see sorcs or NBs tanking 10+ guys, they melt in 2 seconds if they dont run. This is where the actual discussion starts because ZOS is nerfing BE so sorcs cant escape/preposition. NBs have multiple stacking speed buffs which makes it very hard to catch them when they cloak every 2.9 seconds.

The BE nerf will be a huge disadvantage for sorcs because we dont have nearly as much tanking capabilities as DKs and templars and the mobility (while in stealth) of NBs will be far superior to that of the sorcs. The logical conclusion is that sorcs will be a lot easier to kill after update 7 without gaining any major offensive buffs. The nirnhoned nerf will help ofc, but this will help all magicka builds equally.

Have you seen a proper barrier sorc, they can easy tank more than dk's/templars , sorc will still be strong after the update only difference is that they won't be able to teleport half the map, Nb's roll dodhge but in the next patch it's going to be extremely hard to get them out of cloak.

The sorc's 'offensive buff' will be the fact all stamina builds will be nerfed, blocking nerf and a roll dodge nerf.

have you seen a block magica-dk with barrier they laugh about sorcs in this regard...

and no sorcs offensive buff is the nerf to nirn. making them as viable dmg wise as a stamina user again.