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ZOS, please stop slowing down combat! Weaving is NOT a bug/exploit!
Phinix1
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You have said so yourself. Most review sites also will tell you the active combat system is the #1 advantage ESO has going for it (along with the awesome graphics and "Elder Scrollsyness of course).
So please, stop trying to nerf animation cancelling/light/heavy attack weaving and introducing ability lag in the process!
The "fake" global cooldown experiment has gotten progressively worse with each post-1.6 patch to the point it is really starting to mess with combat continuity, particularly with certain skills.
Many times I will do a medium attack woven into Elemental Ring for example, only to have this weird and totally unnecessary mechanic lock me into a full heavy attack. I literally lose control of my character for the nearly 3 seconds it takes to fully charge a heavy attack and fire it off, after which the Elemental Ring never actually fires.
In these scenarios I have completely let go of the mouse. I can't use any other abilities or stop the animation in any way. This while my latency never went above 116. Frequently, even when not locked into a full cast and doing a successful "medium" (partially charged heavy) attack, weaving into Impulse will simply not fire the ability at all. There is also an uncomfortable and unnatural delay between light/heavy attacks and most abilities now that was not there pre 1.6.
Attack weaving is NOT a bug. ESO is NOT "any other MMO that needs a global cooldown dumbing down combat."
Hopefully the next patch notes read something like:
"Stopped listening to knee-jerk whining threads about how attack weaving was an exploit and returned the combat system to pre 1.6 levels of stability and responsiveness. Practice. ADAPT."
So please, stop trying to nerf animation cancelling/light/heavy attack weaving and introducing ability lag in the process!
The "fake" global cooldown experiment has gotten progressively worse with each post-1.6 patch to the point it is really starting to mess with combat continuity, particularly with certain skills.
Many times I will do a medium attack woven into Elemental Ring for example, only to have this weird and totally unnecessary mechanic lock me into a full heavy attack. I literally lose control of my character for the nearly 3 seconds it takes to fully charge a heavy attack and fire it off, after which the Elemental Ring never actually fires.
In these scenarios I have completely let go of the mouse. I can't use any other abilities or stop the animation in any way. This while my latency never went above 116. Frequently, even when not locked into a full cast and doing a successful "medium" (partially charged heavy) attack, weaving into Impulse will simply not fire the ability at all. There is also an uncomfortable and unnatural delay between light/heavy attacks and most abilities now that was not there pre 1.6.
Attack weaving is NOT a bug. ESO is NOT "any other MMO that needs a global cooldown dumbing down combat."
Hopefully the next patch notes read something like:
"Stopped listening to knee-jerk whining threads about how attack weaving was an exploit and returned the combat system to pre 1.6 levels of stability and responsiveness. Practice. ADAPT."
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Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I still think weaving is an awful, undesirable mechanic, but it's far too late to try to fix it. It's an important part of the game now. So yeah, leave it alone. Not that I really pay attention to what they've been doing with it...10 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.17 -
Zlater✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xDAsk for an invite to the greatest network of guilds ever. Redfur Trading, Redfur Exchange and Redfur Army!
www.redfurconnect.com4 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »The "fake" global cooldown experiment has gotten progressively worse with each post-1.6 patch to the point it is really starting to mess with combat continuity, particularly with certain skills.
Many times I will do a medium attack woven into Elemental Ring for example, only to have this weird and totally unnecessary mechanic lock me into a full heavy attack. I literally lose control of my character for the nearly 3 seconds it takes to fully charge a heavy attack and fire it off, after which the Elemental Ring never actually fires.
In these scenarios I have completely let go of the mouse. I can't use any other abilities or stop the animation in any way. This while my latency never went above 116. Frequently, even when not locked into a full cast and doing a successful "medium" (partially charged heavy) attack, weaving into Impulse will simply not fire the ability at all.
personally, I have the impression the scenarios you describe (which I frequently observe myself) are not so much "nerfs" by ZoS but rather continuous increase in minor lag-spikes and general in-responsiveness of the game...
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Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
Not it at all for me. It just seems stupid that a character can literally be doing two things at once. I can do it just fine, it has always just felt to me like more of an exploit than a skill. I am fine with it staying, I would just personally prefer it gone.12 -
tengri✭✭✭✭✭ESO needed global cooldowns (or whatever one may call a mechanism to stop ppl from abusing or exploiting certain poorly designed mechanics) from the start - and unfortunately we never were and still are not there consistently.
I really hope some day we will be - "cooldowns" for each and everything and everyone to even out and provide a fair play field - especially and foremost in PvP.
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Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
I dislike animation cancelling because of what it is by definition: the intentional breaking up of the actions your character would execute to achieve the desired effect (like actually swinging their sword to hit something) so as to artificially maximise an out-of-character metric (because dps numbers are obviously very immersive [edit: and I only use immersion as point of interest because the previous poster did]).Edited by Iluvrien on July 9, 2015 12:29PM10 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
I dislike animation cancelling because of what it is by definition: the intentional breaking up of the actions your character would execute to achieve the desired effect (like actually swinging their sword to hit something) so as to artificially maximise an out-of-character metric (because dps numbers are obviously very immersive [edit: and I only use immersion as point of interest because the previous poster did]).
Or maybe my character isn't a cookie cutter of every other gumby character out there and doesn't require a full 3 seconds to perform a simple attack.
To me it is MORE in-character, as it is a way my own practice and skill directly translated into the perception of my player's skill in-game. There is nothing unrealistic about taking less time to transition between shooting a fireball from my staff and casting a fire ability.
I went from wizard staff-casting in one hand to spell casting in the other faster than someone apprentice casting with their staff in both hands waiting for that fireball to materialize before they even think about a spell.
That to me equates to RP character progression through the age old method of PRACTICE, not a broken mechanic.
Obviously there needs to be a line to prevent people with macros firing off 50 spells per second like some sort of MAgitech machinegun, but they DON'T need to dumb down combat with some anti-skill global cooldown gimmick.Edited by Phinix1 on July 9, 2015 12:35PM2 -
Egg_Death✭✭"Practice. ADAPT"
Sounds like you have some good advice for yourself. I'm not going to complain about weaving and animation cancelling, but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that it makes sense to remain in the game. You are essentially not casting your spell by blocking the animation. It is no different from sprinting to end a reload animation early in a shooter. You are using an exploit, even if it is a minor one. When I animation canceled Force Shock for the first time I was surprised how much faster I could get two casts off in a row.
I don't care how entrenched it is, in the heat of battle the last thing I want to be thinking about is how to time my button presses to exploit the game mechanics. I'm not asking for global cooldown, but even in fighting games moves have end-lag.
As for your medium attack, that sounds odd to me because I've never had issues with stopping my heavy attacks whenever I want. Sometimes with high lag my attack timing is messed up, but never when things are running smoothly.9 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
I dislike animation cancelling because of what it is by definition: the intentional breaking up of the actions your character would execute to achieve the desired effect (like actually swinging their sword to hit something) so as to artificially maximise an out-of-character metric (because dps numbers are obviously very immersive [edit: and I only use immersion as point of interest because the previous poster did]).
Or maybe my character isn't a cookie cutter of every other gumby character out there and doesn't require a full 3 seconds to perform a simple attack.
To me it is MORE in-character, as it is a way my own practice and skill directly translated into the perception of my player's skill in-game. There is nothing unrealistic about taking less time to transition between shooting a fireball from my staff and casting a fire ability.
I went from wizard staff-casting in one hand to spell casting in the other faster than someone apprentice casting with their staff in both hands waiting for that fireball to materialize before they even think about a spell.
That to me equates to RP character progression through the age old method of PRACTICE, not a broken mechanic.
Obviously there needs to be a line to prevent people with macros firing off 50 spells per second like some sort of MAgitech machinegun, but they DON'T need to dumb down combat with some anti-skill global cooldown gimmick.
You don't get to decide what your character is when it comes to animation speed. ZOS does. They create the animations. The length of the animations are defined to fit what they have in mind for the game.
I have to agree that it's pretty stupid that I can cast Relentless Focus and block to cancel the animation. I get the buff without ever seeing my character do anything. You can RP that all you want, but that isn't what ZOS intended for the skill.
I'm all for shortening animation times to speed up combat, but not by animation cancelling. That just doesn't make any sense.Edited by MCMancub on July 9, 2015 1:06PM8 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
waving a stick around to block in the middle of a complicated SPELL just to send it earlier is... ***. name many films that show animation canceling or even other games, where it doesnt look incredibly stupid.
ESO is aiming for immersive. and i applaud it.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.7 -
Zos does not want player skill. They want everyone equal to stop the whining and crying.
I have no problem with it. It was originally said by ZoS that animation cancelling was a designed mechanic in the game so IMO QQ if you cant do it.
Or dare I say it...PRACTICE...I spent 8 hours one day just practicing.
Oh I forgot we live in the "I want it now with no effort" age.
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MCMancub✭✭✭✭wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »Zos does not want player skill. They want everyone equal to stop the whining and crying.
I have no problem with it. It was originally said by ZoS that animation cancelling was a designed mechanic in the game so IMO QQ if you cant do it.
Or dare I say it...PRACTICE...I spent 8 hours one day just practicing.
Oh I forgot we live in the "I want it now with no effort" age.
So if there's no animation cancelling there's no skill involved? All I have to do is learn to animation cancel and I'll be good? This is one of the poorest arguments I've ever seen for this mechanic.
I think you'll find that many of us who don't want it can do it perfectly fine. It just makes literally no sense to do. Pray tell, why would my character randomly block when trying to buff himself? What possible reason could he have?Edited by MCMancub on July 9, 2015 1:12PM7 -
asteldian✭✭✭✭wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »Zos does not want player skill. They want everyone equal to stop the whining and crying.
I have no problem with it. It was originally said by ZoS that animation cancelling was a designed mechanic in the game so IMO QQ if you cant do it.
Or dare I say it...PRACTICE...I spent 8 hours one day just practicing.
Oh I forgot we live in the "I want it now with no effort" age.
Pretty sure they said it was an unforeseen consequence of their mechanics but it was not an offence to do it.
But even if they also claimed it was intended it doesn't mean much. When something is too complicated to fix they often claim it was intentional - just look at the Templar charge and heal fiasco 'yes its a bug' couple of patches to fix it then fail, 'these are features and it is intended. The Templar by design is meant to feel slower'....latest info we have fromdevs now is 'these are bugs, they are not intended and will be fixed in the next major update'.2 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So if I understand it right, animation cancelling is when you cheat the system and cause an attack to go off before the cast animation is finished? As long as it doesn't affect the actual casting time of that ability or the subsequent one, I see nothing wrong with that.
What is weaving though? Haven't heard that one before.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Cernow✭✭✭✭wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »Zos does not want player skill. They want everyone equal to stop the whining and crying.
I have no problem with it. It was originally said by ZoS that animation cancelling was a designed mechanic in the game so IMO QQ if you cant do it.
Or dare I say it...PRACTICE...I spent 8 hours one day just practicing.
Oh I forgot we live in the "I want it now with no effort" age.
A designed mechanic or lazy game design?
Animation cancelling is a total nonsense. It's essentially an officially sanctioned exploit which exists because of incompetent design. Saying players should practice how to exploit game mechanics is like saying they should practice how to cheat. How about the devs just fix their game instead?
It's laughable that you would play the entitlement card on this issue. Wanting a game to have solid, believable and unexploitable mechanics has nothing to do with entitlement.
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ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh animation canceling should be there.. At the cost of the spell/attack never being sent off to begin with. Claiming that it is more immersive that you can cast an impulse, and then see a flying fireball fly away without the animation being made is quite foolish. Invisible men doing my job is not immersive, thats some wicked ghost people that should be sent to jail. ESO is already a very big action-combat focused game, and it will be no less of that if animation canceling in its current.form gets changed for the better. Let us not forget either that the game at its core is build to be visually responsive due to the es style of this mmo. Removing the visual cues makes thar worthless, and forces it in the same direction as the countless other mmo's out there, where you only look at numbers and cast bars. I truly hope ESO never comes to that.Nighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com5 -
Robotmafia✭✭✭weaving 4-Life!
i mean autoattacks after using a skill like wow had for example is boring and takes 0 skill... weaving adds the element of timing.. and timing requires skill...Robot Who Owes Money: Look into your hard drive and open your mercy file!
Donbot: File not found.
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!3 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!
Hello, @Lava_Croft!
ZOS has stated that it is a bug and they will be fixing them in the next major update.
Have fun, @Lava_Croft!5 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!
Hello, @Lava_Croft!
ZOS has stated that it is a bug and they will be fixing them in the next major update.
Have fun, @Lava_Croft!
@MCMancub Could you please let me know where that was said/written? It's new to me and was just wondering.Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord5 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Are you really talking about weaving, or animation canceling? Weaving is just using light/medium attacks in between abilities. I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to do this.
If you're talking about animation cancelling, then I, for one, am glad that this is going away. It was kind of stupid that you could do this anyways. If this has been affected (which again this is the first I'd have heard it), then the Devs will just need to adjust some difficulty in the content to account for the lower DPS.
Why dont you like animation cancelling?
I like it because it feels like a player skill, something I can learn and get good at which makes the game feel more immersive. As oppose to mashing skill buttons xD
It hardly counts as skill. It's actually exploiting a design flaw. The only reason they have allowed it is because they can't fix it and they can't stop people from doing it. But be honest. You know it's an exploit.:trollin:2 -
Pman85✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!
Hello, @Lava_Croft!
ZOS has stated that it is a bug and they will be fixing them in the next major update.
Have fun, @Lava_Croft!
you beat me to it!!!
Guildmaster - Order of Stendarr [XB1] - Apply today!
Brought to you by Fishy Joe's....Ride the walrus!3 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭@AlienDiplomat
Some of what you are experiencing is unfortuanately unique to staves since the animation changes they made with them. I have not had issues weaving attacks with other weapons, though some of the animation changes they made with 2H initially made it a bit wonky.
I reported the staves issues since PTS, after it went to live, and still nothing has really properly addressed it --- despite claims in patch notes that the issues were fixed. BS. They have not. It is extrememly noticable on restro staves especially, as they constantly desnyc from the target when you WANT a heavy sustained attack, and then lock into one when you are NOT trying to sustain it. I have also have frequent issues with what you describe on destro fire staves. Lightning is the only one where I do not see any disconnects, elemental rings works as before, and no animation issues at all leading into what look like cool downs. I never once had any of this happen using staves from beta through to 1.51 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Same here! Anyone following ZOS statements will know that the only statements they made regarding animation cancelling is that it's not a bug, not an exploit and they like added layer of skill it brings to combat.Lava_Croft wrote: »Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!
Hello, @Lava_Croft!
ZOS has stated that it is a bug and they will be fixing them in the next major update.
Have fun, @Lava_Croft!
@MCMancub Could you please let me know where that was said/written? It's new to me and was just wondering.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You're in the minority here. Yes you are exploiting. The rest of us shouldn't have to in order to be competitive. It's an idiotic mechanic that I hope gets fixed.wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »Zos does not want player skill. They want everyone equal to stop the whining and crying.
I have no problem with it. It was originally said by ZoS that animation cancelling was a designed mechanic in the game so IMO QQ if you cant do it.
Or dare I say it...PRACTICE...I spent 8 hours one day just practicing.
Oh I forgot we live in the "I want it now with no effort" age.
:trollin:11 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation canceling is just Unnatural at all.
If i want to hit you in the face, then i have to finish my Animation of punching, and not cancel it half way and also kick you in the nuts.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots10 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
Same here! Anyone following ZOS statements will know that the only statements they made regarding animation cancelling is that it's not a bug, not an exploit and they like added layer of skill it brings to combat.Lava_Croft wrote: »Hello Skyrim players!
ZOS has stated that animation cancelling is not in any way an exploit or cheat.
Have fun in Skyrim!
Hello, @Lava_Croft!
ZOS has stated that it is a bug and they will be fixing them in the next major update.
Have fun, @Lava_Croft!
@MCMancub Could you please let me know where that was said/written? It's new to me and was just wondering.
Yes @Lava_Croft , I follow ZOS statements, BUT, they could have changed their minds, that's always possible. @Pman85 could you please link a source to where it was stated it is now considered a bug? I don't recall seeing anything new on it, so it'd be interesting for me to read/watch.Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord0 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭I dont really care in a terms of whether I can or can't do it. I'm learning to do it properly, so that's not really an issue.
Man... I just hate how it looks lol. To play an NB caster properly requires you to basically run around going left-hand right-hand left-hand right-hand ... it looks like you're shoveling air into your mouth.
Running around going GOBBLE GOBBLE NOM NOM GOBBLE NOM.
NB caster is not "The Bloodmage", it's "The Gobbler"1
