Are "Scammers" Actually Being Punished, At All?

GNRNCSBLSS · July 2015

Hey everyone, my GT is "FulgurK, and I'm curious.

You say that if two people agree to a trade and one party does not deliver the agreed upon item/thing/gold, then they are breaking the game's terms of use. So what happens to those players? I myself have been "scammed" many, many times, by at least 10 different people, and have reported them, yet nothing seems to happen to them. I'm on the North American Xbox One server, in Daggerfall Covenant, I literally see the same person who scammed me hours before running around scamming another person, and may even see them a week later in the same spot. I also know that thousands of other people have been scammed and have reported the other players as well. It is actually because of these "scammers" that even at this very moment I'm offering 30 thousand gold to whichever vampire bites me first in the game, where I try to sort out the actual sellers with the scammers.

Have you ever punished them? Because it is concerning me at this point. Is it that you have punished them but that the punishment is just relatively miniscule?

Any real feedback would be extremely appreciated.

DenMoria · July 2015

Probably nothing. Can you imagine the logistics of keeping up with them? Especially when you can create multiple user profiles, you'd never catch them all.

It's like the real world. Trust no-one.

After all: It's not paranoid to think that everybody is out to get you - they probably are.

You can trust me though. I promise!

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

COD tells no lies, and if it's a direct exchange, anytime something changes, both parties have to agree (via keypress) for it to go through.

The only other scenario is for bites or services. (I can't imagine someone paying for an escort/blade for hire).

Don't. Pay. For. Bites.

DenMoria wrote: »

You can trust me though. I promise!

I can personally vouch for @DenMoria . Sold me a lovely bridge near the Nibenay Basin.

Mr_Durva · July 2015

GNRNCSBLSS wrote: »

I'm curious.

You say that if two people agree to a trade and one party does not deliver the agreed upon item/thing/gold, then they are breaking the game's terms of use. So what happens to those players? I myself have been "scammed" many, many times, by at least 10 different people, and have reported them, yet nothing seems to happen to them. I'm on the North American Xbox One server, in Daggerfall Covenant, I literally see the same person who scammed me hours before running around scamming another person, and may even see them a week later in the same spot. I also know that thousands of other people have been scammed and have reported the other players as well. It is actually because of these "scammers" that even at this very moment I'm offering 30 thousand gold to whoever bites me first in the game, where I try to sort out the actual sellers with the scammers.

Have you ever punished them? Because it is concerning me at this point. Is it that you have punished them but that the punishment is just relatively miniscule?

Any real feedback would be extremely appreciated.

Are you looking for WW bite or vamp bite? If you need my WW bite it won't be ready til Friday but I can pass it on for free

Sacadon · July 2015

inb4 the "we're not allowed to discuss moderation/disciplinary actions" reminder.

Bacon · July 2015

I would recommend reporting to Microsoft and not just on ESO. They won't do much but it should affect their "reputation" on their GT. also good to check out someone GT before you try trading with them. if they have low rep there is usually a good reason for it.

Also, don't pay for bites, there are plenty of people offering to give them out for free or you can just wait till you can earn it yourself in game. Give someone an opportunity to cheat you and most people will (sad fact of life). I'm not sure how you got scammed 10 times before you figured out paying for a bite in advance was a bad idea.

daemonios · July 2015

GNRNCSBLSS wrote: »

You say that if two people agree to a trade and one party does not deliver the agreed upon item/thing/gold, then they are breaking the game's terms of use.

How exactly are they breaking the game's ToU/Code of Conduct/whatever?

There are two and only two "secure" trading systems in-game: interaction menu, where both players must approve the transaction before it's carried out; and via mail (cash on delivery or COD). Anything else, you'll just be trusting a stranger and can get scammed. Get over it. If you ask me, scamming is actually a legitimate role-playing strategy. [EDIT]I meant this only for direct player-to-player trade. Guild stores are also inherently safe.[/EDIT]

Unless people are bypassing game systems to scam you, or try to get protected info such as account details in order to actually take control of your account (but in that case, you'd still be to blame for giving them the info), I don't see any reason for disciplinary action.

daemonios · July 2015

Bacon wrote: »

I would recommend reporting to Microsoft and not just on ESO. They won't do much but it should affect their "reputation" on their GT.

If this is the case, I find it disturbing. Nobody is twisting anyone else's arm, or holding a gun to their face. You can't even get cheated out of real money, since money purchases are bound in-game. If you don't want to get scammed, DON'T GET SCAMMED. Use the game's trading systems and don't trust strangers to deliver anything that can't be traded through these.

Acrolas · July 2015

Apparently there's a growing trend where spoiled rich kids make lots of gaming accounts and spend lots of money on in-game currency and basically troll the game by cheating and exploiting to their heart's content.

Then they dgaf when an account get banned, because their game is the game they're playing with us, not the game they paid for.

Compared to that level of ridiculousness, the bite thing just seems like a fool and his gold being parted over and over again. Just play the game and by the time you get to your Gold zone you'll have three different zones to check for spawns and you won't pay a pence for it.

DenMoria · July 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Apparently there's a growing trend where spoiled rich kids make lots of gaming accounts and spend lots of money on in-game currency and basically troll the game by cheating and exploiting to their heart's content.

Then they dgaf when an account get banned, because their game is the game they're playing with us, not the game they paid for.

Compared to that level of ridiculousness, the bite thing just seems like a fool and his gold being parted over and over again. Just play the game and by the time you get to your Gold zone you'll have three different zones to check for spawns and you won't pay a pence for it.

How do you know they're "Spoiled Rich Kids"? I would think that they would have better things to do with their time, a la The Rich Kids of Beverly Hills.

Me, I think they're like Gordon Gekko's boiler rooms and they're just trolling to abuse us.

GreySix · July 2015

Folks losing gold after trying to purchase bites from strangers in-game amuses me.

Fools and their money are soon parted.

ZOS_AlanG · July 2015

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

Egg_Death · July 2015

IMO trading for bites is outside of the trade mechanics of the game. It would be nice if they could enter into an agreement and kill you instead of bite you, just like I imagine a real vampire would do. I also think there should be some mechanic in place to disincentivize biting too many people. We don't want a world where everyone is a vampire.

Acrolas · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

How do you know they're "Spoiled Rich Kids"?

Well they're not vampires, that's for sure.

GNRNCSBLSS · July 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

I actually didn't ask you about anything private, no one's individual privacy is at stake here.

I was pretty clearly asking you what happened/happens to scammers in general, as in what sort of disciplinary action do they receive. I did not ask you what happened to person X or person Y.

Nonetheless, thanks for the response, always helpful.

Mr_Durva · July 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

Nope because microsoft tells us to use the in-game report feature.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

Egg_Death wrote: »

IMO trading for bites is outside of the trade mechanics of the game. It would be nice if they could enter into an agreement and kill you instead of bite you, just like I imagine a real vampire would do. I also think there should be some mechanic in place to disincentivize biting too many people. We don't want a world where everyone is a vampire.

Indeed. Seems like that's bypassing a mechanic in its own right, and would technically fall under a very dark grey area in the ToS.

daemonios · July 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously.

Well, that puts me in my place... While I've never scammed or been scammed in ESO, I honestly wish resources were employed in more useful areas rather than policing the game.

That said, and just out of curiosity, what is considered a scam? As you said, the game is "buyer beware" and there are secure trading options - guild stores, player interaction menu and COD mail. I'm honestly very confused, as this reply seems to conflict with the official reply on players emptying guild banks - in that case, you said guild leaders should beware who they give permission to access the bank. How is this different?

Elsonso · July 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

@ZOS_AlanG : Has ZOS considered just publishing aggregate information on a weekly or monthly basis that indicate numbers of people banned permanently, temporarily, talked to sternly, etc?

Robbmrp · July 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

@ZOS_GaryA does this also apply to Addons that push hundreds of keystrokes a second to the server? There are people that have been reported for over a year yet they are still in the game using these devices....

daemonios · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

@ZOS_GaryA does this also apply to Addons that push hundreds of keystrokes a second to the server? There are people that have been reported for over a year yet they are still in the game using these devices....

I'd never heard of this one before. Is this supposed to be what those raids use to lag out a server in Cyrodiil?

OrangeTheCat · July 2015

Egg_Death wrote: »

IMO trading for bites is outside of the trade mechanics of the game. It would be nice if they could enter into an agreement and kill you instead of bite you, just like I imagine a real vampire would do. I also think there should be some mechanic in place to disincentivize biting too many people. We don't want a world where everyone is a vampire.

Clear case of "buyer beware". You are taking on the responsibility if it doesn't work out for you. If you take a risk, you might get cheated. Own it.

Xendyn · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

@ZOS_GaryA does this also apply to Addons that push hundreds of keystrokes a second to the server? There are people that have been reported for over a year yet they are still in the game using these devices....

That's not an Addon, it's a Hack program. Yes, the terminology makes a difference as we don't want people to start running around screaming at our poor Addon Authors.

Other than that, I'd love to know the answer as well.

daemonios · July 2015

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

IMO trading for bites is outside of the trade mechanics of the game. It would be nice if they could enter into an agreement and kill you instead of bite you, just like I imagine a real vampire would do. I also think there should be some mechanic in place to disincentivize biting too many people. We don't want a world where everyone is a vampire.

Clear case of "buyer beware". You are taking on the responsibility if it doesn't work out for you. If you take a risk, you might get cheated. Own it.

Apparently not, as per @ZOS_AlanG 's response in this thread. I think a clarification is in order. I'm more confused after the official reply.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

@ZOS_GaryA does this also apply to Addons that push hundreds of keystrokes a second to the server? There are people that have been reported for over a year yet they are still in the game using these devices....

That's not an Addon, it's a Hack program. Yes, the terminology makes a difference as we don't want people to start running around screaming at our poor Addon Authors.

Other than that, I'd love to know the answer as well.

What ever it is, it needs to be addressed sooner than later. It's been a year already since these were reported.

@ZOS_GaryA, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_BrianWheeler can someone comment on what if anything is being done to address cheat hacking programs being used in ESO, especially Cyrodil. When you can have a 50 v 50 battle with 0 to no lag including siege weapons for over an hour and then turn around and have a 5 v 5 battle where the lags so bad you can't cast a single spell, that's not client/server sided lag, that's a hack program specifically being introduced to lag out other players.

Ashtaris · July 2015

My recommendation for anyone who wants a free Vamp or WW bite, or even if there is money exchanged, is to joing a guild that caters to Vampires and Werewolves, or one where you get to know some people in the guild. I have received and given bites in my guild free of charge and we are usually happy to help others with their bites if we have them available. Most good guilds go out of there way to help fellow guildies

GNRNCSBLSS · July 2015

Ashtaris wrote: »

My recommendation for anyone who wants a free Vamp or WW bite, or even if there is money exchanged, is to joing a guild that caters to Vampires and Werewolves, or one where you get to know some people in the guild. I have received and given bites in my guild free of charge and we are usually happy to help others with their bites if we have them available. Most good guilds go out of there way to help fellow guildies

Have an open spot?

Faugaun · July 2015

I've got another question ....if people report lots of scammers and ZoS takes this seriously...assuming that people are found to have scammed other people then why do you never hear about people getting whatever was deceptively taken from them back? If you get nothing back (say I was scammed out of 100k gold for a cyrodilic ring or something) is that indication that no evidence of scam was located?

I've never reported a scammer so I don't have first hand experience but I hear about people being scammed and never hear about them getting their stuff back.

RobDaCool · July 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

How do you know they're "Spoiled Rich Kids"?

Well they're not vampires, that's for sure.

Not all of us rich people are spoiled :P If I was would I be playing this game on the Xbox One lol

Egg_Death · July 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

I've got another question ....if people report lots of scammers and ZoS takes this seriously...assuming that people are found to have scammed other people then why do you never hear about people getting whatever was deceptively taken from them back? If you get nothing back (say I was scammed out of 100k gold for a cyrodilic ring or something) is that indication that no evidence of scam was located?

I've never reported a scammer so I don't have first hand experience but I hear about people being scammed and never hear about them getting their stuff back.

Honestly 100% of these cases should be ignored by customer service, and you should receive an in-game gold fine if you open too many whiney tickets. You got duped in the most obvious way possible, and want them to give you everything back that you so blindly gave away?

Personofsecrets · July 2015

i've had trades that were made by mistake go both ways. One time I got my gold back and another time I was told tough luck.