About nerfing grind-spots

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?
Either way, it sounds to me like you are deciding how we should play the game.
I think that is a bit unfair. It should be our choice to decide wether we want to do quests, interact with NPC's, look at the beautiful environment, or simply grind our way to max-level. If you already have a VR14 character, you don't want to go through the quests of all 3 factions again. Especially if you want to PVP, and want your alt to reach max-level as soon as possible.
Well you can still grind of course, but it's so slow it's not worth the effort.

Please buff grinding again, and if it's grinding CP's you're worried about, nerf CP XP, and buff VR XP.

Let us decide how we want to play the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Cheers

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

EDIT: some type-errors.

TheShadowScout · July 2015

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

Vis · July 2015

No one is stopping you from using pure grind to level. Just because the two roads are different, does not mean one is blocked.

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PS Grinding is still the fastest way to level. Just need to know where, when, and what rotation.

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

I must say I disagree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those grind-only-boys. I have done questin for all 3 factions, and I don't want to go through that again.
It shouldn't be a problem for you if grinders kill the mobs your quest tells you to kill.
remember, grinders want to level up fast, so they pick spots which have quick re-spawn rate.
so all you got to do, is to wait 30 sec to 1 min, and they are up again.
I truly respect your opinion, but I disagree with it

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

Vis wrote: »

No one is stopping you from using pure grind to level. Just because the two roads are different, does not mean one is blocked.

PS Grinding is still the fastest way to level. Just need to know where, when, and what rotation.

Didn't say I can't grind. I said it's too slow.
I did try to grind at a grind-spot with a friend. We cleared the whole thing before they even respawned, and it was still very slow.

Enodoc · July 2015

As far as I am aware, they are only nerfing grind spots where the mob respawn rate is too high, that being where it is higher than it is in other places with comparable content. They don't want to discourage grinding, they want to make sure people grinding in different places have the same rate of XP gain as each other. The number of mobs you have to kill doesn't change, it just takes a bit longer to find them.

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

As far as I am aware, they are only nerfing grind spots where the mob respawn rate is too high, that being where it is higher than it is in other places with comparable content. They don't want to discourage grinding, they want to make sure people grinding in different places have the same rate of XP gain as each other. The number of mobs you have to kill doesn't change, it just takes a bit longer to find them.

They have also nerfed XP gain in delves and in general.

Sacadon · July 2015

A pattern to ZOS nerfing seems consistent to me.

1) Nerf grinding in areas that have potential to negativel affect quests
2) Nerf extreme situations where XP gains allow completion of a veteran rank <= 1hr

All of the past nerfs follow this pattern except for Craglorn.

Anyone recall or remember nerfs that are inconsistent with this?

Enodoc · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

As far as I am aware, they are only nerfing grind spots where the mob respawn rate is too high, that being where it is higher than it is in other places with comparable content. They don't want to discourage grinding, they want to make sure people grinding in different places have the same rate of XP gain as each other. The number of mobs you have to kill doesn't change, it just takes a bit longer to find them.

They have also nerfed XP gain in delves and in general.

That's true, but I wasn't talking about grinding in general, I was referring to specific grind-spots. Besides, the XP nerf is being addressed by the XP buff in the next update.

Sausage · July 2015

Because the original plan was 1 cp for Enlightment, 3 per day if you play whole day. Currently there has been many exploit to make easily 3+ cp per day. Even 3 per day is too much already, but they hope players cant keep that up forever. They want to keep casuals playing too, you know.

Btw, Diablo 3 is pretty good example what happens if you just let people grind as much they want, basically no-one gives a damn about you unless you've 600 Paragon.

Sacadon · July 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

Some people resort to grinding because it helps them relax and it's enjoyable when they are unable to PvP because they are traveling. I know many very nice players that grind. So please reconsider that your experiences and even mine for that matter are not all that is.

Many grinders happily churning away are frequently annoyed by questers that show up and think they own the place. So exactly the inverse of what you described. So ZOS should embrace their player bases diversity and give grinders and quester areas that don't put us at odds. Both can happily play the same game if setup properly.

ConvictedRambo · July 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

While I agree with you on some points, I really hope they don't do anything like that lol... but I agree with your tactic here.

Sausage · July 2015

Hmm, actually grind as much you want with catch-up system could work. Maybe even better what ESO is aiming for. Yeah, but probably too late. Back in the days we didnt even knew we get boosters or there wasnt even CP, so things change so fast.

OrphanHelgen · July 2015

Experience in real life, are when you do different things and learn from them. Maybe they could change the xp ingame so that if you already have killed 50 of the same mob type, the incoming experience from that mob type decrease.

Faulgor · July 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

Some people resort to grinding because it helps them relax and it's enjoyable when they are unable to PvP because they are traveling. I know many very nice players that grind. So please reconsider that your experiences and even mine for that matter are not all that is.

Many grinders happily churning away are frequently annoyed by questers that show up and think they own the place. So exactly the inverse of what you described. So ZOS should embrace their player bases diversity and give grinders and quester areas that don't put us at odds. Both can happily play the same game if setup properly.

I love grinding when the combat itself is fun. I love continously optimizing my build to improve the time or resources I need to kill. I love to push my character to new limits by trying to pull more and more mobs. I love being rewarded by seeing more and more items drop, and by seeing exp bars grow. When you are challenging yourself to grind dangerous areas, it's a very dynamic experience, not repetitive or boring at all.

I want more areas like that in ESO. I want to feel like I'm in trouble if a 3rd or 4th enemy runs into my mob. I want to have areas with insanely strong single enemies that give a lot of exp, and areas with lots of easier enemies that give less exp. I want to have to think about specific builds for specific enemies and areas; no one-build-grinds-all. I want areas that are great for exp, and others that are not so good exp but outstanding for loot. And I want to do better with more people helping me, not feel annoyed and inhibited in my rewards when somebody else shows up. I want to see new grind strategies emerge with 2 or 3 players that are not possible alone.

Good grinding is not repetitive running-in-circles.
Good grinding is sandbox PvE.

smokes · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?

because why spend hundreds of man hours developing quest content, paying actors to do voice overs for those quests, write hundreds of pages of lore into books that can be found all over the world and then let players skip all that content and the core RPG elements of the levelling process by allowing people to level by killing the same mobs repeatedly in a cave.

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

seriously, i wonder what universe you grinders come from, you're the scourge of any decent mmorpg simply because you lack any self control and must have it all right now by grinding mobs, so you can sit atop your throne of corpses through numerical supremacy instead of skill.

your playstyle is unhealthy, your attitude is unhealthy and any game designer would be absolutely bonkers to tailor their endgame content to you and your wanton destruction of any RPG elements they would add through exploitation of any given process for the maximum combat gains possible.

and you want it to be a legitimate playstyle... sure, if you want a game to shrivel up and die within a much shorter lifespan than any game has the potential for. grinders kill franchises, especially if allowed to get too far ahead of the average levelling curve.

The Uninvited · July 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

All I can say about this, is that they shouldn't have nerfed the spiders grind in Craglorn. When it was there, they would go in and grind and other players wouldn't be seeing them as it is a group instance. So you could do your quest and not be annoyed by grinders.

Sharee · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?

They want their players to be spread out all over the game area, not all bunched up in one spot just because that spot gives more XP/hour than the others. Even if there were no quests, the devs would still make sure the leveling speed is somewhat equal, no matter where you do it.

And yes, they do have a certain idea how fast they want their players to be leveling up, so if one source of XP is head and shoulders above that goal, it is likely to get cut down.

portnumbay · July 2015

To be honest, exp from quests are too low. I am new player in this game, the reason why I play this game is because I watched the Alliance War on youtube and I love it. All I wanna do is PvP. I don't even read the quests and just do it. I have limited time playing in a day, just like 2-3 hours

Grinding is the best way so far to reach higher level so I can enjoy the PvP. You probably know very well that the gap between V1 and V14 in Alliance War is pretty high, so to max the level as soon as possible and working on my gear is my main goal.

Sorry for my English.

Syntse · July 2015

The grind spots that have been nerfed has been mainly exploits with maybe couple of exceptions. Most of the spots where you can just kill mobs quickly in numbers are still there and working. It doesn't give the same amount of exp as the exploits did but will give more exp in less time than questing would.

And what I read from the reddit that they are upping the exp in veteran public dungeons when vr16 comes so they are actually enabling grinding in vet public dungeons.

Messy1 · July 2015

I know a really great grind spot . . . Really, really great, super great, it's the best, it involves Skeevers, Cheese, and the Wabbajack!

Faulgor · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

lol, spamming 0 cost Muffle in my house in Whiterun to level Illusion from 15 to 100, such riveting gameplay.

If you enjoy running from one NPC to the next spamming the E key, have at it. I wonder why that would entitle you to speak of "skill", though.

Some people enjoy combat, which is probably the most integral part of an RPG. I don't quite understand why that is so outrageous.

G0ku · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

All I can say about this, is that they shouldn't have nerfed the spiders grind in Craglorn. When it was there, they would go in and grind and other players wouldn't be seeing them as it is a group instance. So you could do your quest and not be annoyed by grinders.

This. They nerfed spots which did not bother any questers or other people outside the group. Now if you want to take your time and quest and get into a spot with many mobs you get really annoyed because on every single one of the few still viable grindspots you can watch the mass destruction. Before it was better if you ask me, everyone had his place. Thay already started the nerfs before CP were a thing.

On the other hands they leave some grindspots untouched and even comment on them in forums (goblins). So I can´t tell their intentions with that.

One thing is for sure: they don´t nerf these things to protect the immersion of questers. So all these jelly guys who tell grinders they are brainless and not playing the game as intended are just a bitter bunch who want to force their playstyle on others.

I am both, grinder and quester. Half of my chars were grinded to maxlevel, the other half was quested to maxlevel.

Enodoc · July 2015

Syntse wrote: »

And what I read from the reddit that they are upping the exp in veteran public dungeons when vr16 comes so they are actually enabling grinding in vet public dungeons.

That is correct. Public Dungeon XP is being doubled, and Craglorn XP is being boosted by 20%. That's in addition to the 15% reduction in the XP needed to get a VR and the 50% increase to Veteran Quest XP.

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?

because why spend hundreds of man hours developing quest content, paying actors to do voice overs for those quests, write hundreds of pages of lore into books that can be found all over the world and then let players skip all that content and the core RPG elements of the levelling process by allowing people to level by killing the same mobs repeatedly in a cave.

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

seriously, i wonder what universe you grinders come from, you're the scourge of any decent mmorpg simply because you lack any self control and must have it all right now by grinding mobs, so you can sit atop your throne of corpses through numerical supremacy instead of skill.

your playstyle is unhealthy, your attitude is unhealthy and any game designer would be absolutely bonkers to tailor their endgame content to you and your wanton destruction of any RPG elements they would add through exploitation of any given process for the maximum combat gains possible.

and you want it to be a legitimate playstyle... sure, if you want a game to shrivel up and die within a much shorter lifespan than any game has the potential for. grinders kill franchises, especially if allowed to get too far ahead of the average levelling curve.

well, neither skyrim, oblibion or morrowind is a MMO game.
And why are you so offensive man? I just pointed out something in my point of view.
And for the record. I already have a VR14 character, which I have done ALL the quests for ALL the factions, so I have allready been through all that quest content, voice-overs, hundreds of pages of lore you speak about.
All that is done, and it was a lot of hours. I don't want to go through all that again on my alt, just to reach end-game so I can PvP.

mtwiggz · July 2015

Personally questing has never been a particular favorite in my book. On my first two characters I completed all of silver and gold - while still needing to grind levels.

I would love to have a DK and Templar too, but the VR grind is for sure an obstacle. The addition of XP potions helps a bit, but sadly doesn't even equate to the amount of XP grinding used to be without them. Definitely want to play everything ESO has to offer, but the grind/quest wall to make alts may as well be miles tall and miles thick, with nothing but a toothpick to widdle it down with.

The reduced XP needed to gain a VR level in the next update is nice, but it will will take over 16 hours of grinding to become max level. If you take the questing path, it's even worse.

At least ESO has broken my alt-a-holic addiction.

Sacadon · July 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nerf grinding itself, not the spots!

Personally I find "grinders" rather annoying. There I am happily questing through some locale, when I see someone running through all the enemy mobs I am dutyfully avoiding, drawing the whole lot in to burn them down quickly with AoE attacks, and then repeating this over and over and over again... extra annoying when I hapen to be on a "kill some critters" quest and they hog them all, but even without I wish they wouldn't do it where I quest.
I usually sigh, and just shrug in quiet acceptance, things being what they are.

But I wish they would go away, earn their expees through questing, or at least kill different mobs instead of the same over and over again so they'd move on instead of staying in one good spot.

So personally, I'd wish the game would keep track of how many and what monster types you slay, and reduce experience for every additional kill. Let's say, you kill your first scorpion, you get full value, your tenth, only 90%, and from your hundreth kill on, no further XP since at that point it has ceased to be a new experience, but become routine. And then they'd have to go off and find a new type of mob to hunt down.

Not too likely to happen, to my continued vexation. Grinding will still remain viable, I expect, as there still are enough people who want it. Of course, they usually want it to get them their XP -faster- then questing... which I would be rather opposed to. If they insist annoying me by gfrinding, then at least they shouldn't have that much of an advantage from it.

So, whenever the grinders ask for a buff to their grind spots, I'll ask for a nerf to all grinding!

Some people resort to grinding because it helps them relax and it's enjoyable when they are unable to PvP because they are traveling. I know many very nice players that grind. So please reconsider that your experiences and even mine for that matter are not all that is.

Many grinders happily churning away are frequently annoyed by questers that show up and think they own the place. So exactly the inverse of what you described. So ZOS should embrace their player bases diversity and give grinders and quester areas that don't put us at odds. Both can happily play the same game if setup properly.

I love grinding when the combat itself is fun. I love continously optimizing my build to improve the time or resources I need to kill. I love to push my character to new limits by trying to pull more and more mobs. I love being rewarded by seeing more and more items drop, and by seeing exp bars grow. When you are challenging yourself to grind dangerous areas, it's a very dynamic experience, not repetitive or boring at all.

I want more areas like that in ESO. I want to feel like I'm in trouble if a 3rd or 4th enemy runs into my mob. I want to have areas with insanely strong single enemies that give a lot of exp, and areas with lots of easier enemies that give less exp. I want to have to think about specific builds for specific enemies and areas; no one-build-grinds-all. I want areas that are great for exp, and others that are not so good exp but outstanding for loot. And I want to do better with more people helping me, not feel annoyed and inhibited in my rewards when somebody else shows up. I want to see new grind strategies emerge with 2 or 3 players that are not possible alone.

Good grinding is not repetitive running-in-circles.
Good grinding is sandbox PvE.

Agreed... While it's not technically grinding, the closest I've been able to find to this is instanced delves where I can repeatedly kill the humanoid NPCs because it adds an undesigned challenge to the mix. It lets me optimize my build, skills and all on my own schedule, without compromising anyone else's time and avoids having to experiment during PvP nights which impacts the whole group. Working my way through DSA right now for this because the NPCs hit hard and there's a good mixture. Even going in all tanky isn't enough to make it though the encounters solo. Fun fun...

smokes · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

well, neither skyrim, oblibion or morrowind is a MMO game.
And why are you so offensive man? I just pointed out something in my point of view.
And for the record. I already have a VR14 character, which I have done ALL the quests for ALL the factions, so I have allready been through all that quest content, voice-overs, hundreds of pages of lore you speak about.
All that is done, and it was a lot of hours. I don't want to go through all that again on my alt, just to reach end-game so I can PvP.

and neither is ESO a single player game...

if you're offended by my stance, i do apologise, but grinding really is not the way an RPG should be played, be that single player RPG or MMORPG.

fair play to you going through cadwells gold and silver, i've done it too. the point is, as pointed out by everybody in the "the day ESO dies" thread from deltia, is that grind to win is not a good design philosophy.

there's also a lot of people coming in and trying to legitimise grinding as a playstyle when it's an abhorrent abuse of ingame systems for personal advantage over other players purely through time spent playing.

it's bad and anyone that supports that structure of endgame progression should feel bad.

edit: autocorrect

Sacadon · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?

because why spend hundreds of man hours developing quest content, paying actors to do voice overs for those quests, write hundreds of pages of lore into books that can be found all over the world and then let players skip all that content and the core RPG elements of the levelling process by allowing people to level by killing the same mobs repeatedly in a cave.

Most of what you just mentioned I have no interest in. I have interest in fighting humans at the other end of the keyboard because you never know what you're going to get. And since ESO has some of the best combat there is right now both visually and feel, it attracts a lot of these types of players. Oh, and our money is green just like yours too.

smokes wrote: »

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

seriously, i wonder what universe you grinders come from, you're the scourge of any decent mmorpg simply because you lack any self control and must have it all right now by grinding mobs, so you can sit atop your throne of corpses through numerical supremacy instead of skill.

A very big and incorrect assumption that we grind because we are impatient or lack self-control. Yes, many do and even more these days than used to be, but not all. Some of us do it because we enjoy it. Some do it because they are trying to stay up with the numerical competitiveness of the guild they run with.

smokes wrote: »

your playstyle is unhealthy, your attitude is unhealthy and any game designer would be absolutely bonkers to tailor their endgame content to you and your wanton destruction of any RPG elements they would add through exploitation of any given process for the maximum combat gains possible.

and you want it to be a legitimate playstyle... sure, if you want a game to shrivel up and die within a much shorter lifespan than any game has the potential for. grinders kill franchises, especially if allowed to get too far ahead of the average levelling curve.

Any playstyle is a legitimate one, but with consequences sure. Bad game designs and lack of frequent updates combined with large amounts of players with toxic attitudes that cannot be offset by those without are what kills games.

RobDaCool · July 2015

I used the grind to level up my 2nd character, and will grind my 3rd also, because I learned the main story isn't there to level you up, its there to bore you lol