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If not playing vamp then go werewolf meta......
Gorthax
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Was just reading about this on the official eso forums, also known as Reddit (since they get more info than the official forums). :P
Link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3byjuw/discussioneso_live_21_comprehensiveish_list_of/
TLDR: I agree with everything this guy is saying in response to the current issue of majority of people being werewolf or vamp and them decreasing their weaknesses even further in update 7: "Too many Vampires in the game already; and the current Meta is "Vamp or Werewolf". Keeping it hard for them is nice; providing mortal-only buffs (similar to Shrines) would be nicer; other lore-based daedricly-tied mosnters would also be neat."
"There are already a god-awful number of Vampires walking the streets of every city. The buffs are constant and great - it's the weakness to fire that really hits home during dungeons and makes one realize "yeah, a curse from the Daedric Prince of *** is probably not fun". I'd even consider making Vampire a PVP-flag (so Fighters Guild players have a chance of seeing you as a potential mission-target, especially if you've fed within the city (local alert) AND also if you haven't fed in a long time (you're too obviously undead).
Werewolf is a different beast - the META seems to be "if you're not a Vamp, go Were" - for the passive buff. It's expensive to regen, but the stamina buff is constant; and their weakness (to Fighters Guild) is really only if they bother putting a point into a rarely used Passive (as opposed to Vampires, who can fear Fighters Guild, Dragonknights, Fire Staves, Fire Enchants and every other fire effect in the game.
And for those desiring alternatives? Easy. How about Shrines to the Divines like in Skyrim? Then if you're tainted by a Daedric prince, the buffs don't work on you. Mortals become worthwhile since it means having flexible buffs to swap, depending on which local god you pray to. Doesn't even need the "8" - just big local ones, like Y'ffre for Bosmer, Kyne for Nords, etc (this also rewards VR players, giving more reason to revisit other faction cities).
Other alternatives? Give us more Daedric options. Molag Bal (Vampires) and Hircine (Werebeasts) are known; but Nocturnal (Nightingales), Sheogorath (Madmen), Peryite (Diseased), Namira (Cannibals), Hermaeus Mora, etc all have ways to claim our souls in the lore. Give Nightingales stealth & crows & shadows; give Madmen a tendency to confuse friendly & unfriendly NPCs (player doesn't see the actual model until after they're dead) and see weird *** (in exchange, maybe some resistance to CC and random effects occur); give Cannibals the ability to regain HP by eating dead enemies and maybe to temporarily leech the last ability the dead used or a racial.....etc, etc etc." -Marus23
Everything is on point right here......... What the heck is ZoS thinking?
Link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3byjuw/discussioneso_live_21_comprehensiveish_list_of/
TLDR: I agree with everything this guy is saying in response to the current issue of majority of people being werewolf or vamp and them decreasing their weaknesses even further in update 7: "Too many Vampires in the game already; and the current Meta is "Vamp or Werewolf". Keeping it hard for them is nice; providing mortal-only buffs (similar to Shrines) would be nicer; other lore-based daedricly-tied mosnters would also be neat."
"There are already a god-awful number of Vampires walking the streets of every city. The buffs are constant and great - it's the weakness to fire that really hits home during dungeons and makes one realize "yeah, a curse from the Daedric Prince of *** is probably not fun". I'd even consider making Vampire a PVP-flag (so Fighters Guild players have a chance of seeing you as a potential mission-target, especially if you've fed within the city (local alert) AND also if you haven't fed in a long time (you're too obviously undead).
Werewolf is a different beast - the META seems to be "if you're not a Vamp, go Were" - for the passive buff. It's expensive to regen, but the stamina buff is constant; and their weakness (to Fighters Guild) is really only if they bother putting a point into a rarely used Passive (as opposed to Vampires, who can fear Fighters Guild, Dragonknights, Fire Staves, Fire Enchants and every other fire effect in the game.
And for those desiring alternatives? Easy. How about Shrines to the Divines like in Skyrim? Then if you're tainted by a Daedric prince, the buffs don't work on you. Mortals become worthwhile since it means having flexible buffs to swap, depending on which local god you pray to. Doesn't even need the "8" - just big local ones, like Y'ffre for Bosmer, Kyne for Nords, etc (this also rewards VR players, giving more reason to revisit other faction cities).
Other alternatives? Give us more Daedric options. Molag Bal (Vampires) and Hircine (Werebeasts) are known; but Nocturnal (Nightingales), Sheogorath (Madmen), Peryite (Diseased), Namira (Cannibals), Hermaeus Mora, etc all have ways to claim our souls in the lore. Give Nightingales stealth & crows & shadows; give Madmen a tendency to confuse friendly & unfriendly NPCs (player doesn't see the actual model until after they're dead) and see weird *** (in exchange, maybe some resistance to CC and random effects occur); give Cannibals the ability to regain HP by eating dead enemies and maybe to temporarily leech the last ability the dead used or a racial.....etc, etc etc." -Marus23
Everything is on point right here......... What the heck is ZoS thinking?
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JediRift✭✭✭Even though my main is a werewolf, I fully agree with some of these ideas. Right now the meta in general is that you are going to be a werewolf or vampire. Yes, there are some pure humanoids, but they are uncommon in general. Most players that I know are either one or the other.
I like the idea of having stones/shrines for humans only. Something to make you really think about staying as a pure humanoid.
I also really like the idea of adding in more alternatives to vampire/werewolf (nightingales, madmen, diseased, cannibals). Would be cool to also add some form of ethereal ghost form, where the character chooses to sacrifice their physical body to some specter lord. This would give you a permanent spirit form, a spirit based entity that I see looking exactly as your character did, but a bluish ghost of your former self. With this new and permanent form you could add in a slightly higher chance to dodge physical attacks, a few spirit based attacks unique to the transformation, and as a downside, a 25% vulnerability to magicka based attacks. Just brainstorming out loud.[Arcane] is recruiting! Daggerfall PS4 NA PvP/PvE - 400+ active members ~ Main recruitment thread ~ www.facebook.com/ArcaneGuild0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
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I can agree with ADDING options for mortal players, but the buffs would have to be balanced and have DRAWBACKS which people seem to skim over, at least with vamp. 25% fire damage after the next big patch is still a HUGE amount of extra damage from that vast majority of heavy-hitting PVE content in the game.TLDR: I agree with everything this guy is saying in response to the current issue of majority of people being werewolf or vamp ...[/b]
But honestly, are we really going to call people choosing to be vamp or WW "an issue?"
Blame the Twilight movies more than the pittance 15% or 10% regen. Or the fact that ZOS actually did something RIGHT and made vamps and WW COOL and fun to play!
All day long I endure one invocation of "play the way you want" after another, yet here we have a bunch of people playing the way they want, even enduring significant penalties (in the case of vamp) and I think we are just a little quick to call that "an issue."
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭First let's be real if u are not putting points into those fighter guild passives that just ridiculous. Two I think what they are doing for vamps Is acceptable. Pve content should be tougher but not impossible with vamp. Try some vcoh or vdsa. You should not be content locked for your decision. As for pvp there are so many skills in the fighters guild, fire staff, dk and even some templar that will get you as a vamp. You ever face a dk spamming lava whip. It hurts. Add on top of the fact that the fire resist don't work. I think these is a resonance change ofcourse I do share the fear of it being to drastic a drop. Let's seen what adjustments happen after it hits pts.
As for werewolves. Yes this needs to be changed. Specifically the fact that you have no weakness unless you transform. So it is a free buff. In this case simply making them vulnerable while not transformed and at all times like the vamp will solve this problem. Then you can use fighters guild, bow, and various gear sets to fight them1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »First let's be real if u are not putting points into those fighter guild passives that just ridiculous. Two I think what they are doing for vamps Is acceptable. Pve content should be tougher but not impossible with vamp. Try some vcoh or vdsa. You should not be content locked for your decision. As for pvp there are so many skills in the fighters guild, fire staff, dk and even some templar that will get you as a vamp. You ever face a dk spamming lava whip. It hurts. Add on top of the fact that the fire resist don't work. I think these is a resonance change ofcourse I do share the fear of it being to drastic a drop. Let's seen what adjustments happen after it hits pts.
As for werewolves. Yes this needs to be changed. Specifically the fact that you have no weakness unless you transform. So it is a free buff. In this case simply making them vulnerable while not transformed and at all times like the vamp will solve this problem. Then you can use fighters guild, bow, and various gear sets to fight them
Completely agree, especially with regard to poison vulnerability = to vamp fire ALWAYS for wolf.
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OzJohnD✭✭✭✭Can never have too many vampires ... more until there is only one man and his dog alive !
Edited by OzJohnD on July 8, 2015 12:32AMEveryone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play 100% pure race with all passives in fighters guild ^_~I want nonvamps/wolves to have a fun bonus. I don't care if people want to play ww or vamp. No one's really complaining about that at all @AlienDiplomat . The issue is that there are very nice bonuses to playing either or with some downsides they keep decreasing. The constant decreases in value of the supposed weaknesses is the problem here. You want to play as either or then you should have to worry about building around your weakness to reduce it yourself as much as possible.
Now that that is out of the way; there really should be bonuses for people who choose to not play as a cursed character. I know it is to much to ask for but....we can dream lol just like spellcrafting is a dream
I do however think ww should have their weakness at all times just like vamps. There we can agree ^_^ Edited by Gorthax on July 8, 2015 12:36AM0 -
Thalmont✭✭✭I'm always open to games adding more options. Probably would pick something other than WW or Vamp if there were more options honestly.1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait for dark brotherhood. Think of a nb bosmer/kahjit with vamp and darbrotherhood passives and abilitues. Should be fun0 -
JediRift✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »As for werewolves. Yes this needs to be changed. Specifically the fact that you have no weakness unless you transform. So it is a free buff. In this case simply making them vulnerable while not transformed and at all times like the vamp will solve this problem. Then you can use fighters guild, bow, and various gear sets to fight them
We must also remember that the current micromanagement of staying in werewolf form currently keeps you constantly out of combat, as opposed to vampires permanent benefits (and on the flip side, their permanent fire vulnerability). As a werewolf I must say, the constant need to pause mid-combat just to upkeep and extend the transformation is tedious, and particularly noticeable when you have a group rushing through a delve while you constantly play catch up due to the long animation of feeding. We lose our transformation if there is any downtime (npc dialogue, bodies disappearing too quickly at dark anchors, etc) and have to build up a very highly priced ultimate all over again. Vampires do not have to deal with this annoyance, and in all honesty their feeding system is so much more manageable. Plus, most vamps I know stay at max hunger as the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
The poison vulnerability being permanent even when not transformed would likely have me switching to vampire, particularly after the fire vulnerability reduction. Being a werewolf is fun, but often short-lived at high ultimate cost, and tedious to constantly micromanage for upkeep.
Edited by JediRift on July 8, 2015 12:45AM[Arcane] is recruiting! Daggerfall PS4 NA PvP/PvE - 400+ active members ~ Main recruitment thread ~ www.facebook.com/ArcaneGuild1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the record, I thought his idea was really freaking awesome! It wasn't meant to start any form of nerf anything or a complaint thread about to many vamps and ww running around. Just an awesome idea I thought I would share for those who don't use the official forums
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Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »As for werewolves. Yes this needs to be changed. Specifically the fact that you have no weakness unless you transform. So it is a free buff. In this case simply making them vulnerable while not transformed and at all times like the vamp will solve this problem. Then you can use fighters guild, bow, and various gear sets to fight them
We must also remember that the current micromanagement of staying in werewolf form currently keeps you constantly out of combat, as opposed to vampires permanent benefits (and on the flip side, their permanent fire vulnerability). As a werewolf I must say, the constant need to pause mid-combat just to upkeep and extend the transformation is tedious, and particularly noticeable when you have a group rushing through a delve while you constantly play catch up due to the long animation of feeding. We lose our transformation if there is any downtime (npc dialogue, bodies disappearing too quickly at dark anchors, etc) and have to build up a very highly priced ultimate all over again. Vampires do not have to deal with this annoyance, and in all honesty their feeding system is so much more manageable. Plus, most vamps I know stay at max hunger as the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
The poison vulnerability being permanent even when transformed would likely have me switching to vampire, particularly after the fire vulnerability reduction. Being a werewolf is fun, but often short-lived at high ultimate cost, and tedious to constantly micromanage for upkeep.
That's why I stopped playing ww on one of my other characters. Too tedious like you said1 -
They can add silver weapon or a rune to enchant for scary ww form, stample 10% more domage to werewolf,undead0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also, the idea to make it so if they did give nonvamps/ww bonuses but had to have a penalty; the penalty is not having sweet passives or ultimates like vamps and ww. That's penalty enough I feel.0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭Why would anyone bother with WW form when the passive out of form is all you need.
... now werekitties ... that I could handle
Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend0 -
JediRift✭✭✭Why would anyone bother with WW form when the passive out of form is all you need.
As a dps Nightblade werewolf, I must say that the werewolf fear and rather significant self-heal are clutch in some fights. They have saved my life when used during dire situations. The passive stamina is really nice, but stamina has never really been an issue for me previous to going werewolf. So, I do find the transformation to be really great under certain circumstances.
[Arcane] is recruiting! Daggerfall PS4 NA PvP/PvE - 400+ active members ~ Main recruitment thread ~ www.facebook.com/ArcaneGuild1 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have not once bothered with either of these types as I find them both equally meh. Prefer to be pure humanoid type. Most likely I will definitely throw my hat in the Dark Brotherhood ring instead, should we ever get it.... same for spellcrafting. As for bloodsucking or paw smaking fur balls, just not into it. Quite happy with the passives I have from all guilds and my weapons/class. If they were to add more options for us, it would be nice but not really needed.0 -
Lnin0✭✭✭How about a Dawngaurd tree which is the anti-vamp/anti-ware build to balance the PVP playing field. Not everyone wants to be one of these undead beast so it would be nice to offer a tree, which is off limits to vamps /wares while offering something to balance combat versus them.0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭@JediRift .. thanks for that ... have a low level WW that I am starting to play and interesting to hear your perspective. My WW is a Redguard DK, heavy armor, sword and board (2nd ability bar DW)Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But if they do make it were you take dmg while in humanoid form as a ww they need to buff it, not just the transformation, the passives.
Vamp offers a lot more than ww's, they can use any skill they want, they get magicka regen as well, get an escape skill, get the only movable aoe in the game, there passives are in effect always etc... while inhuman form ww just gets a stamina regen bonus.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a werewolf magicka sorc using ww purely for the stam regen I would happily take some more disease/poison dmg while in human form if it meant even more stam regen. Just giving ww a penalty in human form with no buff though would make me take vamp instead for the invis-bats. Then I could take my cp out of the magician and put it into mooncalf. I agree though that the ww/vamp system needs a shake up; not much incentive to stay pure human.PC | EU0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭They just need to add Fighter's Guild passives that are negated if you are a Vampire or a Werewolf. They also need to give Werewolves a less restricted ultimate so they can make poison damage and Fighter's Guild skills affect them when not transformed. This would make Werewolf an actual choice instead of free stamina regeneration.0
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Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about a Dawngaurd tree which is the anti-vamp/anti-ware build to balance the PVP playing field. Not everyone wants to be one of these undead beast so it would be nice to offer a tree, which is off limits to vamps /wares while offering something to balance combat versus them.
@Lnin0 this yes this!!!0 -
IWannaBeATiger✭✭✭Isn't there already an anti vampire tree(fighters guild)? Does the fighters guild passive affect werewolves while they haven't shifted?Edited by IWannaBeATiger on July 8, 2015 2:11PM0 -
tisch28✭Hiero_Glyph wrote: »They just need to add Fighter's Guild passives that are negated if you are a Vampire or a Werewolf. They also need to give Werewolves a less restricted ultimate so they can make poison damage and Fighter's Guild skills affect them when not transformed. This would make Werewolf an actual choice instead of free stamina regeneration.
This man gets it. Why would fighter guild abilities not effect ww when you have the passive and they are in human form. Doesn't mean when they are human they aren't cursed yet. It's pretty much only a pvp balance but no one really cries about it for pve.
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mrskinskull✭✭✭✭Was just reading about this on the official eso forums, also known as Reddit (since they get more info than the official forums). :P
Link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3byjuw/discussioneso_live_21_comprehensiveish_list_of/
TLDR: I agree with everything this guy is saying in response to the current issue of majority of people being werewolf or vamp and them decreasing their weaknesses even further in update 7: "Too many Vampires in the game already; and the current Meta is "Vamp or Werewolf". Keeping it hard for them is nice; providing mortal-only buffs (similar to Shrines) would be nicer; other lore-based daedricly-tied mosnters would also be neat."
"There are already a god-awful number of Vampires walking the streets of every city. The buffs are constant and great - it's the weakness to fire that really hits home during dungeons and makes one realize "yeah, a curse from the Daedric Prince of *** is probably not fun". I'd even consider making Vampire a PVP-flag (so Fighters Guild players have a chance of seeing you as a potential mission-target, especially if you've fed within the city (local alert) AND also if you haven't fed in a long time (you're too obviously undead).
Werewolf is a different beast - the META seems to be "if you're not a Vamp, go Were" - for the passive buff. It's expensive to regen, but the stamina buff is constant; and their weakness (to Fighters Guild) is really only if they bother putting a point into a rarely used Passive (as opposed to Vampires, who can fear Fighters Guild, Dragonknights, Fire Staves, Fire Enchants and every other fire effect in the game.
And for those desiring alternatives? Easy. How about Shrines to the Divines like in Skyrim? Then if you're tainted by a Daedric prince, the buffs don't work on you. Mortals become worthwhile since it means having flexible buffs to swap, depending on which local god you pray to. Doesn't even need the "8" - just big local ones, like Y'ffre for Bosmer, Kyne for Nords, etc (this also rewards VR players, giving more reason to revisit other faction cities).
Other alternatives? Give us more Daedric options. Molag Bal (Vampires) and Hircine (Werebeasts) are known; but Nocturnal (Nightingales), Sheogorath (Madmen), Peryite (Diseased), Namira (Cannibals), Hermaeus Mora, etc all have ways to claim our souls in the lore. Give Nightingales stealth & crows & shadows; give Madmen a tendency to confuse friendly & unfriendly NPCs (player doesn't see the actual model until after they're dead) and see weird *** (in exchange, maybe some resistance to CC and random effects occur); give Cannibals the ability to regain HP by eating dead enemies and maybe to temporarily leech the last ability the dead used or a racial.....etc, etc etc." -Marus23
Everything is on point right here......... What the heck is ZoS thinking?
I really don't know.0