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New Strongest Class Predictions
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nightblade1.6k MagReg
3.6k StamReg (as cat)
3.2k Wpndmg
85% Wpncrit
Don´t think i gonna have any problems as stam blade.R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -3 -
Eejit1331✭✭✭NightbladePublius_Scipio wrote: »Its going to be nightblades, The changes to Cloak alone insure that....No single target attacks knocking them out of stealth? throw in detect pots not working..Yea....
Start adding all the other little things they did and you end up with Magicka Nightblades being over the top.
Sorcs will probably be second, and DK and Templar will probably be tied for bottom.
What happened to stamina NB being the way to go post 1.6 (if you wanted to be a NB)? You saying after next major update stam NB no longer viable?
Stamina Nightblades will probably still be good, The drop in burst is a problem because Stamina Nightblades rely on killing targets quickly...Dodge Change means they take more damage as well since they'll have to dodge less.
Pretty much all the defense abilities in the game are getting nerfed, the one that's not eating a nerf is Dark Cloak, so anytime they Dark Cloak think of it as a form of Mitigation where they aren't taking damage similar to Dodge Roll now.
This is also compounded with the fix to nirn and the fix to sharpen maces that stamina NB use.0 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SorcPublius_Scipio wrote: »Its going to be nightblades, The changes to Cloak alone insure that....No single target attacks knocking them out of stealth? throw in detect pots not working..Yea....
Start adding all the other little things they did and you end up with Magicka Nightblades being over the top.
Sorcs will probably be second, and DK and Templar will probably be tied for bottom.
What happened to stamina NB being the way to go post 1.6 (if you wanted to be a NB)? You saying after next major update stam NB no longer viable?
Stamina Nightblades will probably still be good, The drop in burst is a problem because Stamina Nightblades rely on killing targets quickly...Dodge Change means they take more damage as well since they'll have to dodge less.
Pretty much all the defense abilities in the game are getting nerfed, the one that's not eating a nerf is Dark Cloak, so anytime they Dark Cloak think of it as a form of Mitigation where they aren't taking damage similar to Dodge Roll now.
This is also compounded with the fix to nirn and the fix to sharpen maces that stamina NB use.
So sharpened maces is something only stam NB's use? xD I think most dual wielding stamblades in cyro are going the rogue path using 2x daggers. Dont see alot using maces really
EU | PC0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorcPublius_Scipio wrote: »Its going to be nightblades, The changes to Cloak alone insure that....No single target attacks knocking them out of stealth? throw in detect pots not working..Yea....
Start adding all the other little things they did and you end up with Magicka Nightblades being over the top.
Sorcs will probably be second, and DK and Templar will probably be tied for bottom.
What happened to stamina NB being the way to go post 1.6 (if you wanted to be a NB)? You saying after next major update stam NB no longer viable?
Stamina Nightblades will probably still be good, The drop in burst is a problem because Stamina Nightblades rely on killing targets quickly...Dodge Change means they take more damage as well since they'll have to dodge less.
Pretty much all the defense abilities in the game are getting nerfed, the one that's not eating a nerf is Dark Cloak, so anytime they Dark Cloak think of it as a form of Mitigation where they aren't taking damage similar to Dodge Roll now.
This is also compounded with the fix to nirn and the fix to sharpen maces that stamina NB use.
Yes, Sharpened Mace fix alone will make stam NBs deal 10-15% less damage on average and as someone who has been playing without Nirn (practice or stupidity, I don't know
) since 1.6, I can tell that magic damage without that mitigation is not a joke. 0 -
Eejit1331✭✭✭NightbladeI know..lol.. It's just not NB doing that. My stam temp, magicka NB and magica sorc all have sharpen maces.Edited by Eejit1331 on July 6, 2015 6:16PM0
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Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorc@DDuke Yeah I only used one part nirn to reduce jesusbeams/undodgeable whips/concealed. Never wanted to get used to 5x nirn knowing it would get nerfed . Luckily the 30% dmg reduction should help a bit vs high magicka burst :<EU | PC0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeMaster_Kas wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
This reminds me of the pre 1.6 "sorc is dead" talk.
You will still have the best class shield while dk/temp shields will suffer more.
And 2-3 competent players can and will shut down even a competent nightblade. Unless he permacloaks away from the fight but theres nothing strong about running away imo
Also I did put manablades there with sorcs also, since stamblades cannot cloak many times unless they spec more into mana regen/cost reduct in which case they will suffer on their stam regen/cost reduct. we'll see.:)
Edit: My hardened ward is 11-13k in cyro depending on My gear-setup while My dk shield is 4-5k .
Then every class has class and other skills which can break cloak still . But I don't need to write them all up do I?
As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
13k Hardened Ward??? What is that with, 100 points in Bastion and 45k Magicka running a pet build?
The tools for breaking Cloak are crap which is why everyone relies on Detect Pots at the moment.
Right, cause it should take 3 skilled players to kill a sorc.Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
I wasn't clear, I'll admit, but my point was that shields, even when stacking them and casting them nonstop will not allow a Sorc to tank any sort of strong incoming damage. Shields are awesome for 1vs1 and 1vs2 but they are just a minor inconvenience versus any more enemies while a cloaking NB or a defensive built dk/temp can absorb that incoming damage much better than a Sorc.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TemplarI won't say that im right, but im going to go out on a limb and say Templars and Dragonknights will end up benefiting the most from the proposed changes.
Sorcs will be in a much better spot IF they use pets and the correct gear and skill morphs as pets will just be really good, better then they are currently. in the reduced damage meta simply due to the fact that Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward both increase their damages by percentages and other classes don't have that luxury.
Nightblades while getting a Cloak that is not defeated by Detect Pots(which i think will be insanely OP), Nightblades are actually getting nerfed in not only the dodgeroll meta, but in burst damage. Nightblades will feel the damage reduction change more then the other classes due to the fact their entire class meta is based on burst damage to down their opponents quickly.the longer a fight draws on, the lesser the chances the Nightblade wins, its just how it goes. It will be interesting to see if the Cloak change helps with this part of the Nightblades style.
Dragonknights will actually be getting an indirect buff in some ways. Sure it will be much harder to hold a shield up as long as you can now, but the damage reduction means abilities like Magma Armor, Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, etc will become more powerful then they are now. DK will be the one class that can pop Magma Armor and drop block to regen stamina while bringing the pain to their opponents and passives like Helping Hands, Elder Dragon, Iron Skin, and Scaled Armor become even better with damage being reduced as it favors the DK's defensive passives making them better then they are now.
Templar - Templars will be the wild card. Their passives to healing all but ensure their healing will be unmatched in Cyrodiil with the reductions to healing effectiveness will put them in high demand over other classes. I also find it hard to believe that Blazing Shield and such won't be addressed and its pretty much certain the skill will be scaled or will be fixed to work. The fact they are removing the delay from Breath of Life and the cooldown from Toppling Charge begins to bring the Templar's arsenal in balance to some degree. The damage reduction will mean the meta shifts to a more defensive nature and the only other class as defensive as the Templar is the DK. Templar's may become even more annoying to kill due to the fact that bonuses from the Champ system for healing + Heavy Armor + Templar Class passives will allow him/her to literally outheal all your damage with the correct build making the Templarquite the tank. Radiant Aura becomes a viable method to keep a Health and Stamina regen bonus up all the time without having to suck potions, and just having it slotted passively increases it.
While i ultimately think Sorc's will be fine, and Nightblades will get a better Cloak, I think Dragonknights are Templar's are going to benefit a LOT more then people think...a reduced damage meta always favors the defensive classes, and DK's and Templars have better defensive options/passives then the other two classes....Sure Bolt Escape is a great re-positioning tool, but its not really defensive in nature unless your using Ball of Lighting to cast behind it for protection.
Example, Templar's Passive Focused Healing: Anyone, yourself included gets 30% more healing if standing in the area of Channeled Focus, Right of Passage, or Rune Focus. So a Templarr can stand inside Channeled Focus, not only does he get Major Ward and Major Resolve, but he also recovers 200 magic a second and he gets 30% increased healing from his heals. , so the Templar has nearly negated the healing penalty, while your damage is still 50% nerfed...the Templar will outheal all your damage while still being able to dish it out in the face.
The DK will be able to do the same with Igneous Shield if he uses a Resto Staff off weapon for Healing Ward stack and GDB, the DK will have slightly more offense then the Templar, the Templar will have better heals, but both classes will be equally more sturdy.
Again im going out on a limb, but i think DK's and Templar's will fare much better then many think. I also think we will see a good but of nightblade QQ on here about Templar's and DK being able to outheal the Nightblade's damage due to the fact both DK's and Templar's can boost the effectiveness of their heals making heals more powerful then their offensive counterparts.
just my 2 cents.Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on July 6, 2015 6:34PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorcAs far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeAs far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭FireCowCommando wrote: »We have gotten basically no information, but there are tons of idea's out there already as to the new meta. Cast your vote! Feel free to discuss
Could you please be more specific, strongest for what?
1 vs. 1 cyrodiil?Edited by Bromburak on July 6, 2015 6:54PM0 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SorcMaster_Kas wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
This reminds me of the pre 1.6 "sorc is dead" talk.
You will still have the best class shield while dk/temp shields will suffer more.
And 2-3 competent players can and will shut down even a competent nightblade. Unless he permacloaks away from the fight but theres nothing strong about running away imo
Also I did put manablades there with sorcs also, since stamblades cannot cloak many times unless they spec more into mana regen/cost reduct in which case they will suffer on their stam regen/cost reduct. we'll see.:)
Edit: My hardened ward is 11-13k in cyro depending on My gear-setup while My dk shield is 4-5k .
Then every class has class and other skills which can break cloak still . But I don't need to write them all up do I?
As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
13k Hardened Ward??? What is that with, 100 points in Bastion and 45k Magicka running a pet build?
The tools for breaking Cloak are crap which is why everyone relies on Detect Pots at the moment.
Right, cause it should take 3 skilled players to kill a sorc.Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
I wasn't clear, I'll admit, but my point was that shields, even when stacking them and casting them nonstop will not allow a Sorc to tank any sort of strong incoming damage. Shields are awesome for 1vs1 and 1vs2 but they are just a minor inconvenience versus any more enemies while a cloaking NB or a defensive built dk/temp can absorb that incoming damage much better than a Sorc.
Nope but alot in bastion no pets
And no the skills breaking cloak is not crap, it happens to me all the time
Draw essence, streak morph, steel tornado, caltrops, radiant magelight, piercing mark/sap etc .
Also this was a thread of what YOU THINK will be the strongest class, I think its sorcs, you think its nightblades. Lets agree to disagree ?
Edit: Most competetive (sorry for bad spelling) players I face rely more on tripots than detectpots, using skills which can break cloak. Also you forget how many times ZOS said they gonna "fix cloak" but it still bugs out alot.Edited by Master_Kas on July 6, 2015 6:43PMEU | PC0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Dragonknights will actually be getting an indirect buff in some ways. Sure it will be much harder to hold a shield up as long as you can now, but the damage reduction means abilities like Magma Armor, Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, etc will become more powerful then they are now. DK will be the one class that can pop Magma Armor and drop block to regen stamina while bringing the pain to their opponents and passives like Helping Hands, Elder Dragon, Iron Skin, and Scaled Armor become even better with damage being reduced as it favors the DK's defensive passives making them better then they are now.
So you are saying that Sheliza will truly become unkillable? I thought perm blocking/stam regen while blocking are done for.
Edited by Publius_Scipio on July 6, 2015 6:43PM0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Its going to be nightblades, The changes to Cloak alone insure that....No single target attacks knocking them out of stealth? throw in detect pots not working..Yea....
Start adding all the other little things they did and you end up with Magicka Nightblades being over the top.
Sorcs will probably be second, and DK and Templar will probably be tied for bottom.
What happened to stamina NB being the way to go post 1.6 (if you wanted to be a NB)? You saying after next major update stam NB no longer viable?
Stamina Nightblades will probably still be good, The drop in burst is a problem because Stamina Nightblades rely on killing targets quickly...Dodge Change means they take more damage as well since they'll have to dodge less.
Pretty much all the defense abilities in the game are getting nerfed, the one that's not eating a nerf is Dark Cloak, so anytime they Dark Cloak think of it as a form of Mitigation where they aren't taking damage similar to Dodge Roll now.
So basically it would behoove NBs to go the magic route versus stamina is pretty much what you are saying.
So off the top of your head, without too much thinking, just going off what you know and what you can theorize, what do you see a magic NB carrying post update? any particular armor set, enchants, dual wielding, two handed, a staff rather than a bow???0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorcAs far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in PvE guild with top 2-3 trial scores and I'm much involved in the stamina nightblade theorycrafting that's going on.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.Edited by DDuke on July 6, 2015 6:49PM0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in top 2-3 PvE guild in the world and involved in great part of stamina nightblade theorycrafting.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
What do you think about stam NB viability post update? Any changes to armor sets or enchants? Dual wielding still? etc.Edited by Publius_Scipio on July 6, 2015 6:50PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorcPublius_Scipio wrote: »As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in top 2-3 PvE guild in the world and involved in great part of stamina nightblade theorycrafting.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
What do you think about star NB viability post update? Any changes to armor sets or enchants? Dual wielding still? etc.
Well, that's hard to say without knowing the new sets that are coming lol
Atleast Sharpened Mace+Precise Sword might no longer be the way to go by looks of it.0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in top 2-3 PvE guild in the world and involved in great part of stamina nightblade theorycrafting.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
What do you think about star NB viability post update? Any changes to armor sets or enchants? Dual wielding still? etc.
Well, that's hard to say without knowing the new sets that are coming lol
Atleast Sharpened Mace+Precise Sword might no longer be the way to go by looks of it.
Confirmed that brand new armor sets are coming? Any tweaks/changes coming for existing armor?Edited by Publius_Scipio on July 6, 2015 6:52PM0 -
LrdRahvin✭✭✭✭✭There was no option for either:
ForumTroll
or
ZOS Monetization Specialist
so I didn't vote.
0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorcPublius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in top 2-3 PvE guild in the world and involved in great part of stamina nightblade theorycrafting.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
What do you think about star NB viability post update? Any changes to armor sets or enchants? Dual wielding still? etc.
Well, that's hard to say without knowing the new sets that are coming lol
Atleast Sharpened Mace+Precise Sword might no longer be the way to go by looks of it.
Confirmed that brand new armor sets are coming?
Yes, in latest ESO Live (and before that).
Also V16 is going to change many calculations.Edited by DDuke on July 6, 2015 6:53PM0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All this news about NB puts me in a quandary. Stay stam and suffer possible atrophy to my biceps or go magicka and have synthetically enlarged biceps..... What to do?0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TemplarPublius_Scipio wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Dragonknights will actually be getting an indirect buff in some ways. Sure it will be much harder to hold a shield up as long as you can now, but the damage reduction means abilities like Magma Armor, Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, etc will become more powerful then they are now. DK will be the one class that can pop Magma Armor and drop block to regen stamina while bringing the pain to their opponents and passives like Helping Hands, Elder Dragon, Iron Skin, and Scaled Armor become even better with damage being reduced as it favors the DK's defensive passives making them better then they are now.
So you are saying that Sheliza will truly become unkillable? I thought perm blocking/stam regen while blocking are done for.
Well think about this:(if my eso skill cal descriptions are correct mind you, if they are wrong please let me know)
Dragonknights can use any Draconic Power Abilities an while that ability is active, they get a 12% increase in the effectiveness of heals while the ability is active due to the Burning Heat passive.
Now they cast Igneous Shield which gives them a 30% increase in the effectiveness of heals for 7 seconds
So a DK can cast Spiked Armor to boost his defense for 17 secs to activate the Burning Heat passive of 12% and then cast Igneous Shield followed by Dragon Blood and a Heal off the Resto staff such as Healing Ward and suddenly, he is getting a 42% bonus to the amount of healing he receives....All while boosting his defenses to switch over to his offensive bar to bring the pain. Activating an Earthen Heart ability(Igneous Shield) will restore 5% of his stamina.
Magma Armor reduces all damage to 3% of his max health, so he can buy time and take it to the face if need be. Not to mention Battle Roar restoring a good bit of resources on Ultimate generation, and Standard of Might reducing the amount of Damage the DK takes while close to the Standard.
I think DK's will have a lot to play with from a defensive perspective in the reduce damage direction ZOS is taking....DK's have a lot of good solid class passives to reduce damage, Templar's can heal like no ones business, they may become even stronger just based on those merits alone.
As i said, im going out on a limb, but i don't think Nightblade or Sorc is as clear cut and dry as many think...i fully believe their will be DK's and Templars out there that will be near impossible to kill without atleast 3 people hammering on them due to the fact they will be the best equipped to boost their heals and outheal incoming damage. Just my takeRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeMaster_Kas wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
This reminds me of the pre 1.6 "sorc is dead" talk.
You will still have the best class shield while dk/temp shields will suffer more.
And 2-3 competent players can and will shut down even a competent nightblade. Unless he permacloaks away from the fight but theres nothing strong about running away imo
Also I did put manablades there with sorcs also, since stamblades cannot cloak many times unless they spec more into mana regen/cost reduct in which case they will suffer on their stam regen/cost reduct. we'll see.:)
Edit: My hardened ward is 11-13k in cyro depending on My gear-setup while My dk shield is 4-5k .
Then every class has class and other skills which can break cloak still . But I don't need to write them all up do I?
As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
13k Hardened Ward??? What is that with, 100 points in Bastion and 45k Magicka running a pet build?
The tools for breaking Cloak are crap which is why everyone relies on Detect Pots at the moment.
Right, cause it should take 3 skilled players to kill a sorc.Master_Kas wrote: »You all forgetting something. No penalty on shieldstacking:
That makes me think that magicka sorc will be the strongest, probably magicka nightblade also.
Keep in mind hardened ward costs less than cloak
Keep in mind that all the shieldstacking in the world won't save you from 2-3 competent players, while Cloak will, especially after supposed detect pot change.
People go on and on about shield stacking but Sorc only has ONE shield. What does a 20k HP dragonknight Igneous Shield figure out to? Because my 28k magicka Hardened Ward is about 10k worth of shielding in Cyrodiil.
I wasn't clear, I'll admit, but my point was that shields, even when stacking them and casting them nonstop will not allow a Sorc to tank any sort of strong incoming damage. Shields are awesome for 1vs1 and 1vs2 but they are just a minor inconvenience versus any more enemies while a cloaking NB or a defensive built dk/temp can absorb that incoming damage much better than a Sorc.
Nope but alot in bastion no pets
And no the skills breaking cloak is not crap, it happens to me all the time
Draw essence, streak morph, steel tornado, caltrops, radiant magelight, piercing mark/sap etc .
Also this was a thread of what YOU THINK will be the strongest class, I think its sorcs, you think its nightblades. Lets agree to disagree ?
Edit: Most competetive (sorry for bad spelling) players I face rely more on tripots than detectpots, using skills which can break cloak. Also you forget how many times ZOS said they gonna "fix cloak" but it still bugs out alot.
Streak is the only thing I have besides Detect Pots to get cloaking NB and it is basically a guessing game that you are sure to lose if you don't guess right the first time. Even if you do guess right, they can break CC and cloak away by the time you turn and start attacking again. Radiant is my other option but the radius is crap and two slots on my bars (even just one if I want to constantly reactivate it) is just too valuable.
Agree to disagree, yes. I just personally disagree with the initial comment of yours that I responded to that shield stacking is OP.
I don't know if I agree with you assertion that most competitive players forego detect pots either. For me it seems like competitive players say you're a fool if you walk into Cyrodiil without Detect Pots.As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in PvE guild with top 2-3 trial scores and I'm much involved in the stamina nightblade theorycrafting that's going on.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
My mistake about the second hand knowledge part. You mentioned that 28k DPS sorc that wasn't in your guild so that is where I thought your info was coming from. This is off topic as hell though now in a STRONGEST PVP CLASS topic.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nightblade
Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »As far as I'm concerned, all the SORC IS DEAD talk pre 1.6 was all about PVE DPS. I was very active on the PTS forums at that time and it was literally 95% focused on PVE problems (which were not solved - Sorc PVE DPS still weak).
Not even close...
I don't remember the specifics, but sorc DPS can climb extremely high (especially single target), which is why top PvE guilds still run DPS sorcs. What I've heard is that the top one on AD side is dealing 28k single target on Manticora
And I heard that even the people who were adamantly saying Sorc PVE DPS was fixed on 1.6 PTS later reversed their opinions when they found DKs were dominating using a certain +FIRE DMG set bonus. My opinions on PVE DPS are based on second hand knowledge though (looks like your's are too) so I could easily be wrong. My point still stands that 95% of the sorc QQ during 1.6 PTS was about PVE performance.
Not second hand at all, I'm playing in top 2-3 PvE guild in the world and involved in great part of stamina nightblade theorycrafting.
There is no doubt that Magicka DK is currently top 1 DPS (compared to everyone else), but Sorcs aren't bad compared to stam NBs or stam Templars.
What do you think about star NB viability post update? Any changes to armor sets or enchants? Dual wielding still? etc.
Well, that's hard to say without knowing the new sets that are coming lol
Atleast Sharpened Mace+Precise Sword might no longer be the way to go by looks of it.
Confirmed that brand new armor sets are coming?
Yes, in latest ESO Live (and before that).
Also V16 is going to change many calculations.
No, it doesn´t.
It will increase the base of your stats, and your costs are simply based on that.
Costs will get a bit higher, but you also get more stats.. :P
Edited by Soulac on July 6, 2015 7:10PMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Dragonknights will actually be getting an indirect buff in some ways. Sure it will be much harder to hold a shield up as long as you can now, but the damage reduction means abilities like Magma Armor, Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, etc will become more powerful then they are now. DK will be the one class that can pop Magma Armor and drop block to regen stamina while bringing the pain to their opponents and passives like Helping Hands, Elder Dragon, Iron Skin, and Scaled Armor become even better with damage being reduced as it favors the DK's defensive passives making them better then they are now.
So you are saying that Sheliza will truly become unkillable? I thought perm blocking/stam regen while blocking are done for.
Well think about this:(if my eso skill cal descriptions are correct mind you, if they are wrong please let me know)
Dragonknights can use any Draconic Power Abilities an while that ability is active, they get a 12% increase in the effectiveness of heals while the ability is active due to the Burning Heat passive.
Now they cast Igneous Shield which gives them a 30% increase in the effectiveness of heals for 7 seconds
So a DK can cast Spiked Armor to boost his defense for 17 secs to activate the Burning Heat passive of 12% and then cast Igneous Shield followed by Dragon Blood and a Heal off the Resto staff such as Healing Ward and suddenly, he is getting a 42% bonus to the amount of healing he receives....All while boosting his defenses to switch over to his offensive bar to bring the pain. Activating an Earthen Heart ability(Igneous Shield) will restore 5% of his stamina.
Magma Armor reduces all damage to 3% of his max health, so he can buy time and take it to the face if need be. Not to mention Battle Roar restoring a good bit of resources on Ultimate generation, and Standard of Might reducing the amount of Damage the DK takes while close to the Standard.
I think DK's will have a lot to play with from a defensive perspective in the reduce damage direction ZOS is taking....DK's have a lot of good solid class passives to reduce damage, Templar's can heal like no ones business, they may become even stronger just based on those merits alone.
As i said, im going out on a limb, but i don't think Nightblade or Sorc is as clear cut and dry as many think...i fully believe their will be DK's and Templars out there that will be near impossible to kill without atleast 3 people hammering on them due to the fact they will be the best equipped to boost their heals and outheal incoming damage. Just my take
Interesting. So they can mitigate damage and heal themselves well enough. But you don't see perma blocking/stam regen while blocking not being available taking away a lot of options a DK once had in combat?
So they can stand there and keep getting punched, but they don't have the stam anymore to keep throwing many punches themselves. Unless I am thinking about it the wrong way.0 -
Eejit1331✭✭✭NightbladeRinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I won't say that im right, but im going to go out on a limb and say Templars and Dragonknights will end up benefiting the most from the proposed changes.
Sorcs will be in a much better spot IF they use pets and the correct gear and skill morphs as pets will just be really good, better then they are currently. in the reduced damage meta simply due to the fact that Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward both increase their damages by percentages and other classes don't have that luxury.
Nightblades while getting a Cloak that is not defeated by Detect Pots(which i think will be insanely OP), Nightblades are actually getting nerfed in not only the dodgeroll meta, but in burst damage. Nightblades will feel the damage reduction change more then the other classes due to the fact their entire class meta is based on burst damage to down their opponents quickly.the longer a fight draws on, the lesser the chances the Nightblade wins, its just how it goes. It will be interesting to see if the Cloak change helps with this part of the Nightblades style.
Dragonknights will actually be getting an indirect buff in some ways. Sure it will be much harder to hold a shield up as long as you can now, but the damage reduction means abilities like Magma Armor, Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, etc will become more powerful then they are now. DK will be the one class that can pop Magma Armor and drop block to regen stamina while bringing the pain to their opponents and passives like Helping Hands, Elder Dragon, Iron Skin, and Scaled Armor become even better with damage being reduced as it favors the DK's defensive passives making them better then they are now.
Templar - Templars will be the wild card. Their passives to healing all but ensure their healing will be unmatched in Cyrodiil with the reductions to healing effectiveness will put them in high demand over other classes. I also find it hard to believe that Blazing Shield and such won't be addressed and its pretty much certain the skill will be scaled or will be fixed to work. The fact they are removing the delay from Breath of Life and the cooldown from Toppling Charge begins to bring the Templar's arsenal in balance to some degree. The damage reduction will mean the meta shifts to a more defensive nature and the only other class as defensive as the Templar is the DK. Templar's may become even more annoying to kill due to the fact that bonuses from the Champ system for healing + Heavy Armor + Templar Class passives will allow him/her to literally outheal all your damage with the correct build making the Templarquite the tank. Radiant Aura becomes a viable method to keep a Health and Stamina regen bonus up all the time without having to suck potions, and just having it slotted passively increases it.
While i ultimately think Sorc's will be fine, and Nightblades will get a better Cloak, I think Dragonknights are Templar's are going to benefit a LOT more then people think...a reduced damage meta always favors the defensive classes, and DK's and Templars have better defensive options/passives then the other two classes....Sure Bolt Escape is a great re-positioning tool, but its not really defensive in nature unless your using Ball of Lighting to cast behind it for protection.
Example, Templar's Passive Focused Healing: Anyone, yourself included gets 30% more healing if standing in the area of Channeled Focus, Right of Passage, or Rune Focus. So a Templarr can stand inside Channeled Focus, not only does he get Major Ward and Major Resolve, but he also recovers 200 magic a second and he gets 30% increased healing from his heals. , so the Templar has nearly negated the healing penalty, while your damage is still 50% nerfed...the Templar will outheal all your damage while still being able to dish it out in the face.
The DK will be able to do the same with Igneous Shield if he uses a Resto Staff off weapon for Healing Ward stack and GDB, the DK will have slightly more offense then the Templar, the Templar will have better heals, but both classes will be equally more sturdy.
Again im going out on a limb, but i think DK's and Templar's will fare much better then many think. I also think we will see a good but of nightblade QQ on here about Templar's and DK being able to outheal the Nightblade's damage due to the fact both DK's and Templar's can boost the effectiveness of their heals making heals more powerful then their offensive counterparts.
just my 2 cents.
Very nice write up. Well written. I will say the part about the temp healing leads the reader to believe the net result is a 20% nerf in healing. 1) I always use the synergy so to me it will be a 50% nerf to my typical healing and I would speculate that ZOS reduced base healing of the temp heals due to the passive. But, 100% + 30% = 130% / 2 = 65% whigh equals a 35% reduction for those that never used the synergy but now do. Again, very good write up.
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