Weekly leaderboard fair/unfairness

Artemiisia · May 2015

@Giles.floydub17_ESO they would fil 16 spots, if four friends with 4 vr14 chars made an rotation of the chars

lets say I have all vr14

1 tank
2 dps
1 heal

that means I in first run I use tank, and the others use their dds and healer

thats four places on the leaderboard, then I log in with my heal, the others login with their alts, thats another four places on the leaderboard and so on.

so yeah 16 spots on the ranking system for four people if they do this rotation

timidobserver · May 2015

After going through the mind numbing trouble of leveling an alt to V14, I am okay with the alt being eligible for a leaderboard time.

idk · May 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

just make the leader-board on the login name instead of chars name, that way you can still improve your ranking with what ever main/alt you using.

in my book, one person shouldn't be able to have 8 spots in the leader-board

One does not restrict others to bring oneself up. In fact, your option doesn't even begin to change much. One tank and one healer can bring 50 played through (not that there is time) and take up 50 spots in total.

The only viable option is a character lockout, not an account lock out. If they want to leaderboard on each character then that is life but they cannot run others through.

The reality is there is a small group of players, especially tanks, bringing various grips through. Granted, lockouts will drive some to tank it on their dk to over come it, but this is a legitimate solution that doesn't restrict someone's game to only one useful character.

idk · May 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO they would fil 16 spots, if four friends with 4 vr14 chars made an rotation of the chars

lets say I have all vr14

1 tank
2 dps
1 heal

that means I in first run I use tank, and the others use their dds and healer

thats four places on the leaderboard, then I log in with my heal, the others login with their alts, thats another four places on the leaderboard and so on.

so yeah 16 spots on the ranking system for four people if they do this rotation

You drastically edited your quote of my post where is doesn't even come close to what I had posted. Please quote within context.

Here is the post he quoted.

That's not how it works. One group of 4 use up one spot on the leaderboard. That's it. If the same group runs with another set of characters they can get a second spot. Using your example of of each having 4 characters they would fill 4 spots, not 16.

End of what he quoted. I didn't even bother reading his reply since it was replying to misinformation.

Artemiisia · May 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO they would fil 16 spots, if four friends with 4 vr14 chars made an rotation of the chars

lets say I have all vr14

1 tank
2 dps
1 heal

that means I in first run I use tank, and the others use their dds and healer

thats four places on the leaderboard, then I log in with my heal, the others login with their alts, thats another four places on the leaderboard and so on.

so yeah 16 spots on the ranking system for four people if they do this rotation

You drastically edited your quote of my post where is doesn't even come close to what I had posted. Please quote within context.

Here is the post he quoted.

That's not how it works. One group of 4 use up one spot on the leaderboard. That's it. If the same group runs with another set of characters they can get a second spot. Using your example of of each having 4 characters they would fill 4 spots, not 16.

End of what he quoted. I didn't even bother reading his reply since it was replying to misinformation.

This was my first post about it:
So heres is what I heard. Some of the top players are using like 4-5 chairs to get in the leader board, with playing with each other, that actually means if just one group of four people that has 4 vr14s, actually can have 16 places in the top 100, if more do this and if this is how it works, I really feel sorry for lots of people that will never have a single chance getting in the top 100 weekly, especially when its vDSA where I know lots really want the master weapons.

then you respond with this:
That's not how it works. One group of 4 use up one spot on the leaderboard. That's it. If the same group runs with another set of characters they can get a second spot. Using your example of of each having 4 characters they would fill 4 spots, not 16.

So yeah I didnt drastically edited anything, I just clarified so you understood what I was writtin in first post, no need to become all dramatic.....

in the end, it looks like we both want the same thing in some way, lockouts or limitations or what ever.

AlnilamE · May 2015

Personally, I don't see getting multiple characters into the leaderboard as a problem. I say that as someone who's never stayed in the leaderboards long enough to get a reward (and I haven't done vDSA at all yet).

If people want to spend their game time getting as many alts as possible into the top 100, then that's their choice. I'm not sure what discouraging them from that by making the reward account bound would accomplish.

I also think that a per-character lock-out would be a bad idea. What if your first run was bad and you barely got to the Leaderboards and you would like to try again to improve your score? You would be punishing everybody who *doesn't* have several V14 alts instead.

azoriangaming · May 2015

Sorry but I don't think great players should be punished by not allowing them to use alts as well to get on to the leaderboards, they're called leaderboards for a reason because only the best of the best can be there.

idk · May 2015

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Sorry but I don't think great players should be punished by not allowing them to use alts as well to get on to the leaderboards, they're called leaderboards for a reason because only the best of the best can be there.

Exactly. Simply put and to the point.

Jaerlach · May 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO they would fil 16 spots, if four friends with 4 vr14 chars made an rotation of the chars

lets say I have all vr14

1 tank
2 dps
1 heal

that means I in first run I use tank, and the others use their dds and healer

thats four places on the leaderboard, then I log in with my heal, the others login with their alts, thats another four places on the leaderboard and so on.

so yeah 16 spots on the ranking system for four people if they do this rotation

You fundamentally don't understand how this works. Everyone with the same score occupy the same spot, so those players probably don't occupy 16 different slots. If they had that perfect group you describe, they could do it and only take up 4 spots. However, this rarely happens.

The VDSA weekly rewards sell for a substantial amount and vdsa scores are one of the few competitive PVE endgame things going on in this game. A lot of people (including myself) have spent a lot of time working on it, and one of the ways we are paid off in the end is when vet dsa is the weekly.

Despite having the 2nd best score ever (as of this post

), I don't have most of the master weapon+trait combinations I would want. I have run this instance a lot. The way that it pays me is in loot sales, and especially gold jewelry.

If anything, the problem only exists for vet dsa, and it is only a problem if your faction is AD (at least in NA), since apparently the AD faction does not care about being good at vet dsa.

As of this post, only 10 of the top 100 vet dsa scores on the all time, and the last time dsa was the weekly, they only got 12 of the 100 rewards.

AD is so far behind the other factions in being good at DSA that almost no one in the entire faction is getting weekly rewards from it.

rokrdt05 · May 2015

Moezilla wrote: »

Im tired of seeing people non-stop complaining on the forums....about everything! Its called a leaderboard for a reason. Its the only real competition for PVE players. VetDSA is the only weekly that gives items that are not already bound, so having 400 or 1200 slots will completely ruin that market.

The people that are on the top of the leaderboards and manage to take all of their alts, and take up the top 30 spots have probably earned it. Those are the people who run it multiple times and have taken the time to learn the instance.

So instead of complaining you should grab 3 other people and go in and learn it. Run it and understand the mechanics and enjoy the content we currently have to deal with.

I agree with this. Simply switching to a different alt to be ran through is not always as simple, especially if it is in another role i.e. healer to dps or vice versa. The people who work at this instance, do it with the intention of being able to have leaderboard times. Not to come whine on the forums because they cannot compete. My advice would be to go practice the instance as @Moezilla suggested and work at it. That way when it becomes the weekly gain, your group will have a great chance getting on.

Kegero · May 2015

4 players, each with 8 characters can block 29 of the 100 positions.
Math:
Player 1 has 8 tanks
Player 2 has 8 healers
the others have damage dealers

P1-1 being player 1 with his 1st char, P1-2 player 1 with his second char and so on

1st run: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 1: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1

2nd run P1-2, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 2: P1-2 (the other 3 players are already ranked with their fist chars)

3rd run P1-3, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 3: P1-3

8th run: P1-8, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P1-8

9th run: P1-1, P2-2, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P2-2

and so on until run 29: P1-8, P2-8, P3-8, P4-8
position 29: P4-8

A total of 14 mischievous, cooperating and obviously very good players with enough time can block the complete leaderboard.

Artemiisia · May 2015

@Kegero thx for this, since it seems like I failed to put it up right

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2015

Kegero wrote: »

4 players, each with 8 characters can block 29 of the 100 positions.
Math:
Player 1 has 8 tanks
Player 2 has 8 healers
the others have damage dealers

P1-1 being player 1 with his 1st char, P1-2 player 1 with his second char and so on

1st run: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 1: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1

2nd run P1-2, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 2: P1-2 (the other 3 players are already ranked with their fist chars)

3rd run P1-3, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 3: P1-3

8th run: P1-8, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P1-8

9th run: P1-1, P2-2, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P2-2

and so on until run 29: P1-8, P2-8, P3-8, P4-8
position 29: P4-8

A total of 14 mischievous, cooperating and obviously very good players with enough time can block the complete leaderboard.

Nobody is so bored that the tedium of doing that would be a relief. Some of this happens by accident. Sometimes you run someone's vr1 through so they can get their Boethia's Scythe on their vr1 and so on but I can't see anyone wasting the 6+ hours this would take from grouping up to clearing, including resets for mistakes just to lock up spots for what will only amount to one loot mail for one person on some of those runs.

idk · May 2015

There is some really bad math going on in this thread.

What some fail to recognize is 2 players with only one character each can lock up all 100 slots. They carry 99 other groups through.

Basically, what many fail to understand is punishing the best players (short sighted idea) doesn't stop things. Why one player is listed at a certain rank is because the rest of that team ran again bringing others with them. Those others claimed another spot on the rankings.

Stop wanting to punish and drive off the strong players.

AlnilamE · May 2015

Kegero wrote: »

4 players, each with 8 characters can block 29 of the 100 positions.
Math:
Player 1 has 8 tanks
Player 2 has 8 healers
the others have damage dealers

P1-1 being player 1 with his 1st char, P1-2 player 1 with his second char and so on

1st run: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 1: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1

2nd run P1-2, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 2: P1-2 (the other 3 players are already ranked with their fist chars)

3rd run P1-3, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 3: P1-3

8th run: P1-8, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P1-8

9th run: P1-1, P2-2, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P2-2

and so on until run 29: P1-8, P2-8, P3-8, P4-8
position 29: P4-8

A total of 14 mischievous, cooperating and obviously very good players with enough time can block the complete leaderboard.

What's the fastest time one has run vDSA at? How does that multiply by 29? Do they stop to eat and sleep?

Are there really people who are that bored that they would purposefully do this to lock people out?

If the goal is to get as many alts on the leaderboards, it would be far more efficient to just run fresh groups each time.

idk · May 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Kegero wrote: »

4 players, each with 8 characters can block 29 of the 100 positions.
Math:
Player 1 has 8 tanks
Player 2 has 8 healers
the others have damage dealers

P1-1 being player 1 with his 1st char, P1-2 player 1 with his second char and so on

1st run: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 1: P1-1, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1

2nd run P1-2, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 2: P1-2 (the other 3 players are already ranked with their fist chars)

3rd run P1-3, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 3: P1-3

8th run: P1-8, P2-1, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P1-8

9th run: P1-1, P2-2, P3-1, P4-1
position 8: P2-2

and so on until run 29: P1-8, P2-8, P3-8, P4-8
position 29: P4-8

A total of 14 mischievous, cooperating and obviously very good players with enough time can block the complete leaderboard.

What's the fastest time one has run vDSA at? How does that multiply by 29? Do they stop to eat and sleep?

Are there really people who are that bored that they would purposefully do this to lock people out?

If the goal is to get as many alts on the leaderboards, it would be far more efficient to just run fresh groups each time.

I doubt anyone has done this purposely, and probably not even accidently. While the example he gives is humorous, it's probably diversion.

Shadesofkin · May 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I like the current system. It is alt friendly.

Also, who on earth does a person think he is to tell other players what they should or shouldn't be allowed to do with their alt characters.

Look, I'm not saying it's a fun time for everyone, but that's the way the cookie crumbles and calling for it to be bound to account is unfair to those players who've done the work and run the trials and gotten the best score each every time.

sagitter · May 2015

It is sadly true, i know some people, got 8 v14 chars and someone with 2 account have more than 8 v14 alts, exped during hircine farm period, they are literally monopolizing leaderboard, expecially DSA vet.
I know that a better player should has his gift, but damn, give a chance also to who is not pro-nerd that have 24 hours to play a day like you, so i think weekly rewards should be account rewarded, or max 2 chars per account.I'm bored of same ppl, farming over and over VDSA and monopolizing the reward of it, something should be done.

Bouvin · May 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

It is true but from a material standpoint it doesn't matter much. You can get the same vr14 master weapons from the chests at the end and just use upgrade matts on them to take them up to legendary. Though you might miss out on the free weapon that comes from the weekly leader-board, you can still get several just from doing a few vet dsa runs a week. If PVE is hard for you; an easy but time consuming solution is to just get in the top 60 or so of any campaign in cyrodiil and get the same weapons in gold.

None of the gear in the other 3 trials is best in slot for anything, so if you do trials at all, you are just doing them for bragging rights in the end and the fun of doing some content together with a group of friends. The eternal yokuda set is good for tanking, but you can earn it without weekly achievements, and other sets exist that are just as good if not better. The vicious ophidian is a decent stamina set, but stamina dps is an albatross to trials groups where time is everything. The best way to get on those boards is 1.5 healers, 1 tank and 10.5 DPS 9 of which are DK magicka builds. That's just the way the game is currently.

legendary Accessoires can just get throught the reward from trails and pvp. and they are worth up to 800k....

Ya I guess the healer rings still sell for bank to the PVP crowd, but who needs the gold? Just from selling SO v14s I'm over 2 million and I don't need it for anything. Our trials leader has like 20 million gold. It's not game breaking that some people have to compete with competent players that have several alts that replay the content for weekly rewards. I have done it a few times myself but am so bored with the content I can't be bothered to even do the stuff on my main often.

It's actually really terrible design, because it completely blocks out anyone who isn't totally hardcore from the rewards, while the super hardcore people get 4x the stuff.

Kegero · May 2015

By the way, position 100 on the EU server currently has 10060 points with 18 hours left.

SeptimusDova · May 2015

How much do these items sell for ? the rings and other items?

MrGhosty · May 2015

While I am personally self qualified as a "bad", I have no issue with people making use of all their alts to maximize rewards earned. This game is so light on content it makes even some of those derned facebook games look "content rich" so if spending the time putting all of your characters is what you want to do I say more power to ya.

Randoms do have a chance to steal a spot, if they can earn it, which is sort of the ideal fairness that doesn't punish skill. The selling price of these things suck as a poor man, but seeing something that high is aspirational which is why many aren't against this behavior as they'd quite like to think that someday they might be able to take advantage of it.

GilGalad · May 2015

Kegero wrote: »

By the way, position 100 on the EU server currently has 10060 points with 18 hours left.

Still not enough to push my 3 chars out of the top 100! :P

Hypertionb14_ESO · May 2015

even worse, is the fact that people do mutiple runs, and when they score higher, they end up leaving a gap int eh score board if their previous run holds.

in theory a trail weekly can hold 16x100 people for rewards but the reality of it is that less than 1/10th of the potential leaderboard slots are ever filled...

Rinmaethodain · June 2015

The leaderboard should be for people not alts.

Its the person who plays and gets a score. Account name should be on leaderboard. You dont change into completly different person when you go into alt.

Do trials with alts as much as you want, but only best score from them all will get to leaderboard under one account name.

idk · June 2015

Eliminate the leaderboard and its solved. Besides the fact that vet dsa and the trials is absurdly easy to compete fast, especially with the CP nerf to them on top of the complete speed challenge that leaderboard became with 1.6 it's silly to think it's worthy of a leaderboard. It's to easy to make leaderboard to begin with, though it does take work to get the stray down that I find it laughable this is being discussed.

Xantaria · June 2015

I would only do this change for arena currently. for the other trials it is not necessary because the problem isn't as big.