Honestly this needs to be said for all players

IrishGirlGamer · June 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Well I do not know how to build a car nor fly a plane so that is why I PAY MONEY for someone else that does to do so.

And I remind you I pay them to do so. Is it then okay for them not to do it correctly?

Apparently it is.

As much as I love Bethesda's games, this is something the company has struggled with constantly. The forum chorus for their games, going back to Oblivion, has been "Don't worry, the modders will fix it." That they do, and then we forget just how broken the games were upon release. Oblivion was buggy on release; Skyrim was better. And Fallout 3, a game I love, had more bugs than a roadkill picnic.

Here's something: go over to the Nexus site and look at the top 100 mods for either Oblivion or Skyrim. What you'll see is that a substantial number of those mods fix bugs or game design features: "Unofficial Oblivion Patch", better game maps, better UIs, better game mechanics. It isn't just a matter of adding a cool sword or a great new armor; many of these mods make the gameplay better.

So here's where the OP gets off track a bit: if Modders can do these great things for free or next to free, then why can't a company that charges us $79.99 get it done in over a year?

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's only been a couple weeks or so since launch so they are still sorting out all the kinks but compared to launch date there have been drastic improvements in playability.

I think it's cute how you think there's no world outside your house.

UrQuan · June 2015

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

This is exactly the problem with modern society. People feel like even though they know absolutely nothing at all about an issue, for some reason they're right about it and the people who actually understand it are wrong.

Gidorick · June 2015

Aqualina wrote: »

I fully agree with the OP. Simply because people THINK something is easy, doesn't mean it is. My friends and I founded a indie game company of our own called Snow Dust Studios. We've been up and running since last year, but we're still working hard on the game and have nothing to show anyone yet but development. Why? Because bugs and big bugs and even more bugs and technical issues. The code is a nightmare at times even when we have it all organized and set up to where we know exactly what we're looking at. But when it comes to finding a bug and getting rid of it? Totally freaking nightmare. You have to test this thing and then that thing and then another thing, and then try this and try that. If what you did breaks something else over here then you have to put said code back in and go through the process all over again until you nail it down.

TL;DR: game design isn't super duper easy peasy as people make it out to be. Either help us (the devs in any company) or just be patient with us to work out what's wrong with the game you love. People need to remember we're human too, with feelings, emotions and a personality.

The difference is, you're an indie game company. Zenimax is one of the biggest publishers in the world.

sadownik · June 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

This is exactly the problem with modern society. People feel like even though they know absolutely nothing at all about an issue, for some reason they're right about it and the people who actually understand it are wrong.

Do i have to have engineering degree to judge a car im buying? If i say that one car is better than the other in the same price, am i wrong? And please either you are very young or very self centerd - modern society is exactly the same as "in the good old days" society.

Gidorick · June 2015

sadownik wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

This is exactly the problem with modern society. People feel like even though they know absolutely nothing at all about an issue, for some reason they're right about it and the people who actually understand it are wrong.

Do i have to have engineering degree to judge a car im buying? If i say that one car is better than the other in the same price, am i wrong? And please either you are very young or very self centerd - modern society is exactly the same as "in the good old days" society.

I agree. Its the same but with smartphones.

UrQuan · June 2015

sadownik wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

This is exactly the problem with modern society. People feel like even though they know absolutely nothing at all about an issue, for some reason they're right about it and the people who actually understand it are wrong.

Do i have to have engineering degree to judge a car im buying? If i say that one car is better than the other in the same price, am i wrong? And please either you are very young or very self centerd - modern society is exactly the same as "in the good old days" society.

If you're making a judgment on the manufacturing process, yes. If you're talking about the quality of the finished product of course not, but that's not what the person I was quoting was doing.

And as far as your comment about modern society being exactly the same, it's clear you don't understand the fundamental changes to society as a whole and the psychology of individuals that the information age (and especially the internet) has wrought.

Malthorne · June 2015

Kaitona wrote: »

As for the PC gamers claiming they have a right to complain, they don't really. The game gives you plenty of value for money in it's vanilla state, anything added to that is just icing on the cake.

Those of us who were here from the beginning, those of us who payed a subscription until last March in return for promised content and meaningful updates that were not delivered have no right to complain? Nice.

Faulgor · June 2015

Changing some numbers around for balance or reward restructuring, e.g. changing loot tables is _not_ hard.

I did that 12 years ago when modding MMO server emulators. Specifically, I changed an exp-based leveling system to one based on weapon usage like Morrowind. Fun times.

Now, adding completely new systems that require scripting on every aspect of the game is naturally much harder and silly to ask for as a quick fix.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

smtdbplus wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

Wrong. There is WAY more to it than you think.

So its more complicated that brain surgery? I play MMOs for almost 20 years now and very rarely ive seen such struggle to fixing and changing code.

Answering your question, yes it is a million times more complicated than a brain surgery. Think about 100 people working on your brain together for 3 years, that's a closer comparison.

Except they're not working on your brain...

They're working on your foot, because that's where management told them your brain was, and after it's all done, they want to charge you for an appendectomy...

Yes, there is more involved than meets the eye. Yes, ZoS is new.

Zenimax, however is not new at this (development), and many forget (or simply don't realize) the sheer number of consulting resources they had available, in-house, to help guide the plan along they way.

Let's not go the other extreme, either, shall we? First MMO, yes.

First rodeo? Hardly.

MrGhosty · June 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

I bought the game in april mate - april 2014

Enaijo wrote: »

It's over a year now.

Not the console version.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

t's not the programmers' fault new bugs show up out of nowhere or whenever they do maintenance that's just how things are with any MMORPG.

Enaijo wrote: »

Sorry, but lol. I'm a programer myself and of course it's the programers fault. Bugs don't come out of nowhere. Maybe they are hard to find/avoid, but every single bug goes back to a programer that made something wrong. If I would go to my boss and say "yeah, you know, it's a bug ... but that's just the way it is, it wasn't my fault", he would send me home and tell me to never come back. As a programer, there is not much that's more important than to learn from your faults and that only works if you admit them.

You're not the only one that knows how coding works. Sure programmers tend to miss a thing or 2 here and there when they develop code and then they go in and fix it but it's a bit different for games when anything that can go wrong will regardless of how precise a programmer coded it. You can't keep an MMORPG completely bug-free 100% of the time when making updates and patches because as I stated before they are adverse effects of trying to fix things. Also you people spend so much time bashing Zenimax how am I supposed to take what ya'll complain about seriously? As I also said it has only been 2 weeks since CONSOLE release yet you people treat it like it's been out since PC version. A lot was changed for console version before it was even released so give 'em a break already.

I think you might be a little confused friend, what those of us who have been playing on PC are saying is that we called a lot of the issues that console players are currently having. More important than that, we have grown frustrated with our own platform which was seemingly abandoned while they worked to get console out. I will say that it is fair enough they needed all hands on deck for console, but with the myriad of issues we're dealing with tend to leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Also as to the OP, you unfortunately come off in a rather terribly unflattering light when you make posts without appearing to have even dug into the many issues that have us so frustrated in the first place. I think it is safe to say that none of us want the game to fail, we're vocal and at times negative because we are pushing to get things working so that this game can continue. If we all just nod our heads and accept whatever ZOS gives us, we will not end up with a good game. I cannot think of a single modern game that was created in a vacuum.

nimander99 · June 2015

ttschreiner wrote: »

People thinks it's so easy to add or delete things in the game like it's a simple option to check in a box and drop in a trash bin and it's over. It's not. I've done game art and design in my past and I also did a lot of game scripting as well. It's not easy. Scripting is probably one of the most important things in gaming to be honest. What if they delete the script for Veteran Ranks then all of a sudden everyone logs on the game and every character is all of a sudden at level 1 out of nowhere. Oh and no armor, no skills, and you don't even start in the wailing prison. Or you do and the first weapon you start with a frying pan that does little damage and doesn't block. You wouldn't be too happy now would you? I mean I know I wouldn't. Things have to be precise. They probably have made there own private server and are tweaking the script seeing how things work and deleting things and adding things to see if the game still works and that there are no glitches that would ruin the whole gaming experience. People need to chill. These things take time. They understand. I have no idea what they're doing and how they're handling things and taking upon what people are suggesting in forums but still... Chill...

Yeah we know it's hard, but there are certain systems and content that was nearly done over a year ago, that is what those of us who have been following this game for a couple years are griping about.

Whendim_ESO · June 2015

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

Wow.

Zhoyzu · June 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Kaitona wrote: »

I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. Granted, I'm not a developer and I don't know anything about writing scripts but it can't be that hard.

Wrong. There is WAY more to it than you think.

So its more complicated that brain surgery? I play MMOs for almost 20 years now and very rarely ive seen such struggle to fixing and changing code.

It's more like programming a robot to act like an actual human being. It's gonna have flaws no matter what you do and every change can have an adverse effect. This is why no update or patch to any game goes perfectly and truthfully they have the players to help them seek out any negative impacts they might have missed so they can fix them. What they apparently usually get instead though are complaints...

What makes you think they are struggling though? It's only been a couple weeks or so since launch so they are still sorting out all the kinks but compared to launch date there have been drastic improvements in playability. It's not the programmers' fault new bugs show up out of nowhere or whenever they do maintenance that's just how things are with any MMORPG. Like you I also have been playing them for many years and I do know how it is but this is the first one I have played on a console so there are likely to be differences compared to PC. If it was the same on PC as it was on console then oh well but at least we have an elder scrolls game we can play interactively with others right? To me that's all that matters.

Its been a YEAR and a few MONTHS since release. and they are still sorting things out. hence the utter dissatisfaction with Zo$ and how they handle everything. They didnt even learn from the release when they decided to turn the servers on for consoles. its like they replaced everyone except for the big names that do little to nothing and just call the shots after PC release.