Removing Former Emperor Buffs OR Creating Former Players?

Rylana · June 2015

Im not going anywhere OP.

I vehemently oppose this particular change (because its so late in coming that its just taking something away, doesnt need to be big or small, just dont take crap away from people after a year)

But

It isnt enough to quit over.

Leandor · June 2015

If the decision to remove them would be overthrown due to "misled player feedback", then at least make it so that the former emperor buffs are only active on the campaign you achieved it on. Yes, I realize that that means those who were emp on Auriel's Bow era campaigns will lose it permanently until they regain it on an existing campaign. Tough Luck.

BladeBoques · June 2015

bloodravnb14_ESO wrote: »

He certainly could have phrased the post better, but I have to agree with him. Why would I bother playing a game where my progression could at anytime be wiped because someone else cried about it? I might as well just go back to playing Skyrim.

We'll be right back at this table in a year, only it'll be all of the people playing right now (if they bother sticking around that long) bitching and moaning that all the hard work they put into progressing their characters with be pointless when they arbitrarily decide that CPs need to be removed.

Fix the issue, not the symptoms.

This is really the heart of what I want to bring up in discussion.

Emperor farming won't stop as long as their are short campaigns, a title, and buffs to be the current Emperor. We'll still see swapping and AP farming because it takes large groups to crown 1 person, people have friends, and most will want it, that is human nature. That won't change unless the system, not the already-earned-incentives, are removed. I don't think this solves the problem it was designed to solve, while creating a precedent for showing earned progression in this MMO isn't lasting.

Though this discussion is not about what balances PvP. The scary thing to me is a game I love so much is taking away the MMO aspect that I am here for: Character progression and advancement earned by time investment. With the removal of Former Emperor buffs I just don't think any earned progression will be safe from removal if ZOS sets the precedent now. We should prevent that and can.

I spent the day PVPing on stream on the PS4 and had a great time, it isn't about rage quitting or keeping my 2%. I said it badly and with too much filler in my opening post and I'm sorry for the time I wasted some of you with anger. This is worth the attention and concern of anyone who plays this great game, I honestly do not believe the Champion Point system will stay in place after 150 in game days are spent for people to max it. Maxed players will a lot stronger than the 2%ers and those who are coming in later will call for a rebalance and it seems like none of that is sacred and will be removed on enough public demand.

Ghosted · June 2015

First it's emp buffs, next it's champ points, how deep does ZoS let them take us? There should be rewards for people who put their time and effort into these rewards and achievements no question imo. People complain about not having the rewards when they do not want to put in the effort. Cheating the system to farm emperor, it's lazy and is a growing pvp problem.

BUT there has to be a way to fix it without erasing people's hard fought efforts. Removing the buffs from PVE would be a good start. It would clean up the players who didn't give a sewer skeever about campaign, if the problem persisted changing the way that emperor is achieved could be the next step. Last resort should be to remove the buffs in all honesty, the fact that ZoS is going there straight away should worry those that are farming their champ points. It may all be for naught soon enough.I already see the masses complaining about cp, either they are too hard to achieve them or people who already have them are too powerful. I blame society, laziness is sestemic and its finally moved to the next generation of gamers ✌

pppontus · June 2015

deleted

Iyas · June 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

No one cares. Former emp passives create a toxic PVP environment where the goal is to pass around Emp as much as possible and it ruins the balance of campaigns.

This

iTzStevey · June 2015

It seems ZoS is too lazy to actually try to fix things, they just remove them instead. Instead of removing the emporer buffs why not disable the ability to become emporer in non vet campaigns or campaigns that arent very long. Then increase the amount of player ls that can ne in a campaign at one time. Then again that would make cyrodiil even more laggy, amd its unbareable sometimes as it is.

Sile · June 2015

Former Emperor has been poison to PvP since day 1.

Araxleon · June 2015

yeah That person fails to realize CP is literally WORSE...
longterm CP does as much more harm than former emp

Armitas · June 2015

Had they done this when we asked for it back in the beginning of the game it wouldn't have been such a big deal. They are truly late to the party on this and buff servers. Back then I was all for the loss of emp passives, however now that we are well over a year into it we have a lot more people with emp passives. I fear this will have a hugely negative backlash, and we really can't afford that now.

With the exception of console players, and new PC players morale is terrible right now. There are so many people with one foot out the door just waiting for a reason. Don't screw with people right now, right now you need to fix all the damage you have done to player morale. You need to start building bridges and restoring your credibility, not tinkering with players to see if it fixes it. Player faith and credibility in you is really really bad right now. I had a little bit of faith leftover myself, until the provisioning bug came out with xp pots and washed that all away.

So heres a question for you ZOS, where were you a year ago when we were talking about this? In fact we have never stopped talking about it, why are you just now taking action?

If giving up my emp passives are good for the game then you can take them, but you really need to gauge the reaction of this because things are critical for the PC players right now.

Earendal · June 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Completely wrong. Anybody who got Emperor legitimately is ecstatic about this change.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. You ≠ Everyone. I know plenty of people, of each faction, who aren't ecstatic about this change. Keep trolling, I know its hard for you to keep your head out of every conversation on the forums.

To the people saying "If it isn't such a big buff, then why do you care?" If you someone took $5 from you, do you care? Its just $5...

Komma · June 2015

This isnt about the buffs. They arent taking it away because of the buffs. People having the buffs is the end result of the real issue. If it werent for the real issue they wouldnt be taking away the former emp buffs.....

Not sure how it can be said in any different way but get it through your heads. They ARE NOT TAKING THE BUFFS AWAY BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO POWERFUL... They are doing it to prevent the type of action that are destroying the campaigns. Acting like they are going to take away CP's because they are too powerful is a joke and a misdirection from the issue to push your own cause.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LENGTH OF A CAMPAIGN. Infact it is easier to trade emp in a 30 day campaign than a 7 day one since you have to gain so many points to even be an emperor. ive seen 5 new emps crowned in the same day and that was on a 30 day so that argument is out. Haderus creates less new emps than Azuras Star for example.

I can almost gaurantee that less than 25% of all former emps got emp by "working hard". If the person in front of you dropped out after being deposed as emp so the next person in line could be emp...THAT IS EMP FARMING. You didnt earn it!

ToRelax · June 2015

BladeBoques wrote: »

bloodravnb14_ESO wrote: »

He certainly could have phrased the post better, but I have to agree with him. Why would I bother playing a game where my progression could at anytime be wiped because someone else cried about it? I might as well just go back to playing Skyrim.

We'll be right back at this table in a year, only it'll be all of the people playing right now (if they bother sticking around that long) bitching and moaning that all the hard work they put into progressing their characters with be pointless when they arbitrarily decide that CPs need to be removed.

Fix the issue, not the symptoms.

This is really the heart of what I want to bring up in discussion.

Emperor farming won't stop as long as their are short campaigns, a title, and buffs to be the current Emperor. We'll still see swapping and AP farming because it takes large groups to crown 1 person, people have friends, and most will want it, that is human nature. That won't change unless the system, not the already-earned-incentives, are removed. I don't think this solves the problem it was designed to solve, while creating a precedent for showing earned progression in this MMO isn't lasting.

Though this discussion is not about what balances PvP. The scary thing to me is a game I love so much is taking away the MMO aspect that I am here for: Character progression and advancement earned by time investment. With the removal of Former Emperor buffs I just don't think any earned progression will be safe from removal if ZOS sets the precedent now. We should prevent that and can.

I spent the day PVPing on stream on the PS4 and had a great time, it isn't about rage quitting or keeping my 2%. I said it badly and with too much filler in my opening post and I'm sorry for the time I wasted some of you with anger. This is worth the attention and concern of anyone who plays this great game, I honestly do not believe the Champion Point system will stay in place after 150 in game days are spent for people to max it. Maxed players will a lot stronger than the 2%ers and those who are coming in later will call for a rebalance and it seems like none of that is sacred and will be removed on enough public demand.

I don't agree with you about former emp buffs, I think they should be removed.
But I could at least follow your argument. With the Champion System you lost me, letting that in as it is now will kill the game within months. The hopefully soon coming changes to the CS are not "nullifying your progression" but "correcting a game breaking issue".

Etaniel · June 2015

I'm just gonna repost here what I posted in another thread concerning the same topic :
Once again they are trying to fix one thing (emperor farming) by applying multiple fixes that individually would've solved the issue.

Emperor farming has to go yes. I wouldn't say that it's toxic like people have been saying in other threads. If a campaign is empty enough that you can reach top rank by repairing walls, it means you aren't ruining anything for anyone, it's a dead buff campaign.
By removing the possibilities to travel to other campaigns, people will feel more dedicated towards their campaign, and won't be able to switch campaigns to get a fast access to the throne.

If a campaign is competitive and active, there is no room for emperor farming. Emperor farming/trading was never a thing on Thornblade EU because people actually fight for the campaign. There are many people on it so you wouldn't be able to have all your guildmates on top of the leaderboard, dropping emp one by one to share it between them.
In my opinion these campaign changes should help to move every campaign in that direction, so in itself it should already be a fix for emp farming.

I don't see why removing the passives on top of that is necessary.

Look at when elemental wall was a thing. Everyone cried that stacking walls was op because purge would make all the dots proc instantly.
Instead of just fixing purge, they also nerfed elemental wall, making it useless to the point that I haven't seen that skill used since 1.6.

Is it so hard to implement fixes one by one and observing the game state afterwards to see if there is still a problem??
I'd rather have regular small fixes than a ton of big fixes every 6 month that result in new problems

eventide03b14a_ESO · June 2015

BladeBoques wrote: »

I am going to be live streaming a discussion right now at twitch.tv/bladeboques while still enjoying the game I love so much ESO PVP on the PS4 this round. The community is in agreement that we want it to continue and strive for greatness and become better. ZOS has proven many times that they listen to the players, maybe we can creatively come up with a compromise together today.

In this matter I believe the majority want to see it removed.

eventide03b14a_ESO · June 2015

BladeBoques wrote: »

bloodravnb14_ESO wrote: »

He certainly could have phrased the post better, but I have to agree with him. Why would I bother playing a game where my progression could at anytime be wiped because someone else cried about it? I might as well just go back to playing Skyrim.

We'll be right back at this table in a year, only it'll be all of the people playing right now (if they bother sticking around that long) bitching and moaning that all the hard work they put into progressing their characters with be pointless when they arbitrarily decide that CPs need to be removed.

Fix the issue, not the symptoms.

This is really the heart of what I want to bring up in discussion.

Emperor farming won't stop as long as their are short campaigns, a title, and buffs to be the current Emperor. We'll still see swapping and AP farming because it takes large groups to crown 1 person, people have friends, and most will want it, that is human nature. That won't change unless the system, not the already-earned-incentives, are removed. I don't think this solves the problem it was designed to solve, while creating a precedent for showing earned progression in this MMO isn't lasting.

Though this discussion is not about what balances PvP. The scary thing to me is a game I love so much is taking away the MMO aspect that I am here for: Character progression and advancement earned by time investment. With the removal of Former Emperor buffs I just don't think any earned progression will be safe from removal if ZOS sets the precedent now. We should prevent that and can.

I spent the day PVPing on stream on the PS4 and had a great time, it isn't about rage quitting or keeping my 2%. I said it badly and with too much filler in my opening post and I'm sorry for the time I wasted some of you with anger. This is worth the attention and concern of anyone who plays this great game, I honestly do not believe the Champion Point system will stay in place after 150 in game days are spent for people to max it. Maxed players will a lot stronger than the 2%ers and those who are coming in later will call for a rebalance and it seems like none of that is sacred and will be removed on enough public demand.

With only one at a time the goal of attaining emperor will also include trying to keep it instead of just passing it off so your friends get the buffs. Nobody is taking away your silly title just the skill line. If you're a good player you won't need it.

Rook_Master · June 2015

That was a nice bit of QQ. It was worded much more politely than the rest, I have to admit. I especially liked the first paragraph which reads like some type weird resume where OP crows about being a "Social Media Content Creator"

Cagro · June 2015

100% disagree. Former emperor buffs are not good for the game because put casual players at a big disadvantage. PVP should be skill based.

c0rp · June 2015

If you desubbed because of this, then you are playing this game for the wrong reasons.

Emp buffs are toxic and have plagued this game from day 1. If you cant see that, then you are just blinded by your 5% extra siege buff I guess. Is a title and achievement not enough for your "former glory"?

And this:

"If the forum community manager who reads this would like to allow for an in person meeting I will go to your headquarters in Rockville MD, my expenses, and explain my concerns and discuss this further in person to your boss."

.... thanks for the lols

Jolinius · June 2015

Emp farming will continue because theres an emp title and a nifty little dye. The diffrence in stats is so small you could make up for this just by upgrading your armor one tier. And the people complaining are simply butthurt and need to l2p and have probably just been playing a few months and think they should have everything. If you earned it you deserve to keep it. I cant even believe this is coming up at all with all the other imbalances in the game. Yeah this will fix everything(sarcastically)

Domander · June 2015

How about a middle ground of making them only active in pvp.

Cagro wrote: »

100% disagree. Former emperor buffs are not good for the game because put casual players at a big disadvantage. PVP should be skill based.

Have you been introduced to the champion system?

Cathexis · June 2015

Jolinius wrote: »

Emp farming will continue because theres an emp title and a nifty little dye. The diffrence in stats is so small you could make up for this just by upgrading your armor one tier. And the people complaining are simply butthurt and need to l2p and have probably just been playing a few months and think they should have everything. If you earned it you deserve to keep it. I cant even believe this is coming up at all with all the other imbalances in the game. Yeah this will fix everything(sarcastically)

Don't forget the costume.

Iyas · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

That was a nice bit of QQ. It was worded much more politely than the rest, I have to admit. I especially liked the first paragraph which reads like some type weird resume where OP crows about being a "Social Media Content Creator"

yeah i loled hard

Lettigall · June 2015

Removal of former emperor skill line will make almost extinct emperor farming, for emperor will go players who actually want play as emperor. Emperor title finally gonna have meaning. It may also reduce night capping, it's easier to crown fake emperor when most of players are sleeping then organize whole alliance in prime time.

Those who cry about loosing former emperor buffs, didn't you get enough rewards for you hard work? Emperor skill line which makes you almost "god like", unique title, dye and costume. And you get to play as a actual game changer, good emperor can save keep or scroll when situation seems hopeless.

AbraXuSeXile · June 2015

Instead of nerfing a huge ammount of players they should just revamp it and make people finish in the top 10 of a campaign to get it, gives an incentive to PVP and wont nerf a massive ammount of players.

SturgeHammer · June 2015

The bit at the end about wanting to talk to ZOS's Boss (?) IRL reminded me of a person I witnessed at a local pool recently who wanted to talk to a lifeguard's manager because they were asked to stop standing on their tube. Now I can't help but read this as someone complaining that they can't stand on tubes anymore because too many people were doing it on the shallow end of the pool and that ruined it for everyone who could tube stand on the deep end.

NightSky · June 2015

I wouldn't care about the removed of the former Emp buff, 2% doesn't really matter. What matter is if they can remove this from players that work hard to obtain this, They can remove whatever they want even if you work hard for it... What's next the Champion Points? Since Champion Points is such a amazing aspect they added.(sarcastic)

WRX · June 2015

Earendal wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Completely wrong. Anybody who got Emperor legitimately is ecstatic about this change.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. You ≠ Everyone. I know plenty of people, of each faction, who aren't ecstatic about this change. Keep trolling, I know its hard for you to keep your head out of every conversation on the forums.

To the people saying "If it isn't such a big buff, then why do you care?" If you someone took $5 from you, do you care? Its just $5...

And you can't seem to help yourself but reply to every thread he posts in.

Look dude, he's just not that into you. Plenty of other fish in the sea.

Forestd16b14_ESO · June 2015

I just have to say in my own opinion is if players really do quit over this it just means more fixes for PvP. Cause let's be honest here not only you don't deserve the title or buffs you don't deserve to even play ESO. So go ahead quit clear the game up for those who wanna play and have fun and not exploit there way to the top like all emperor farmers did. There are players who work to get that title and now are gonna have it stripped away from them cause some exploiters wanted to ruin every one else good time.

Angavar · June 2015

They have already stated plans for a 'catch up' system of sorts with champion points, where the XP required for the first (x) amount of cp is reduced.

Implying that they will remove cp because they plan to remove former emp buffs is ridiculous.

Truth is, former emp buffs cause more trouble than they're worth.