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CP is a Death Sentence..
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BigInGlenumbra wrote: »Shadesofkin wrote: »Gear+Skill is always going to be vastly more important to the game than the Champion Points.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BigInGlenumbra wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Name these significant advantages. Remembering that noone has anywhere near 3600 CP at the moment.RustedValor wrote: »Show me the math.
For the mooncalf for example, if you spend 100 points in it, you get 25% stam regen over somebody who has none spent in it. Put 55-60 in and it's around 17.5%. And this is just one stat in ONE of the 3 categories.
If you don't think that's significant, then I don't know what to tell you.
So you are complaining about a measly 7.5% for putting in another 50 points? You call that little bit overpowering to the point it trumps all gear and skill? lol
Measly? Are you actually serious? That's a total of 25%.
And why do you keep implying that I am arguing CP stats > gear + skill. If you're trying to give any credit to your argument, I am not arguing that at all.
Gear + skill will always > CP stats
I don't think ANYONE is arguing that CP stats > gear + skill
But to deny the significance of CP stats is blatantly ignorant. For asking a lot of math you seem to not comprehend the significance of 25% or even 17.5%.
The difference between 50 and 100 is only 7.5% according to you. The 17.5% will be easily reached while it will take just as much to advance another 7.5%. Thats what diminishing returns is. Remember too you cant just spend points in those stats only. You have to spread your points around. So I wonder if you understand what you are talking about. To spend 100 in your example Id need a minimum of 550 points I believe to get it. So you are really worried about nothing. Even with all that grinding in the end the guy who has double your CP only have a measley 7.5% more stamina regen for all that work.1 -
BigInGlenumbra✭✭✭RustedValor wrote: »BigInGlenumbra wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Name these significant advantages. Remembering that noone has anywhere near 3600 CP at the moment.RustedValor wrote: »Show me the math.
For the mooncalf for example, if you spend 100 points in it, you get 25% stam regen over somebody who has none spent in it. Put 55-60 in and it's around 17.5%. And this is just one stat in ONE of the 3 categories.
If you don't think that's significant, then I don't know what to tell you.
Ok thats VS somebody who put NONE into it. By the time you have 1 character leveled from VR1-VR14 and then played the game enough to get a full elite gear set fully upgraded to gold you already have enough CP to get 80% of the benefits with only 20% of the total effort. Second of all almost nobody has enough champion points to waste dumping a full 100pts into on passive without gimping themselves on the passives that would give themselves more significant benefits. If you have 4 characters (1 of each class for instance) and get them all to end game level and gear, you easily have enough champion points to wipe out any significant statistical difference in power. The power difference is further mitigated by the fact that 100 players are usually fighting in the same areas simultaneously and a few powerfull players can't impact the results of a conflict of that magnitude. Furthermore some of the no lifers with tons of CP will be YOUR ALLIES completely nullifying your entire argument.
By V14 you should be able to put in enough for 13.2%
Somebody with 300 CP points can get max stam regen of 25%. - 13.2 that's still 12% difference. On an equal playing field, 12% means a lot.
It doesn't matter if players have to allocate elsewhere, they still have an advantage equal to the 12% difference.
On GW2, people were losing their %$*^ over +5% difference in stats for new, expensive armor types.
10% is a lot, ESPECIALLY for high-end gameplay.
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JacksonCarter13✭✭✭Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!0 -
RustedValor✭✭✭BigInGlenumbra wrote: »RustedValor wrote: »BigInGlenumbra wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Name these significant advantages. Remembering that noone has anywhere near 3600 CP at the moment.RustedValor wrote: »Show me the math.
For the mooncalf for example, if you spend 100 points in it, you get 25% stam regen over somebody who has none spent in it. Put 55-60 in and it's around 17.5%. And this is just one stat in ONE of the 3 categories.
If you don't think that's significant, then I don't know what to tell you.
Ok thats VS somebody who put NONE into it. By the time you have 1 character leveled from VR1-VR14 and then played the game enough to get a full elite gear set fully upgraded to gold you already have enough CP to get 80% of the benefits with only 20% of the total effort. Second of all almost nobody has enough champion points to waste dumping a full 100pts into on passive without gimping themselves on the passives that would give themselves more significant benefits. If you have 4 characters (1 of each class for instance) and get them all to end game level and gear, you easily have enough champion points to wipe out any significant statistical difference in power. The power difference is further mitigated by the fact that 100 players are usually fighting in the same areas simultaneously and a few powerfull players can't impact the results of a conflict of that magnitude. Furthermore some of the no lifers with tons of CP will be YOUR ALLIES completely nullifying your entire argument.
By V14 you should be able to put in enough for 13.2%
Somebody with 300 CP points can get max stam regen of 25%. - 13.2 that's still 12% difference. On an equal playing field, 12% means a lot.
It doesn't matter if players have to allocate elsewhere, they still have an advantage equal to the 12% difference.
On GW2, people were losing their %$*^ over +5% difference in stats for new, expensive armor types.
10% is a lot, ESPECIALLY for high-end gameplay.
GW2 also has instanced team based PVP where small advantages make a much larger impact on balance. Also your 12% stamina regen doesn't mean jack because the majority of PvP encounters are over in seconds because of the damage output of most builds. Extra regen only helps in a prolonged encounter where you might actually run out of stamina or magic.0 -
BigInGlenumbra✭✭✭RustedValor wrote: »BigInGlenumbra wrote: »RustedValor wrote: »BigInGlenumbra wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Name these significant advantages. Remembering that noone has anywhere near 3600 CP at the moment.RustedValor wrote: »Show me the math.
For the mooncalf for example, if you spend 100 points in it, you get 25% stam regen over somebody who has none spent in it. Put 55-60 in and it's around 17.5%. And this is just one stat in ONE of the 3 categories.
If you don't think that's significant, then I don't know what to tell you.
Ok thats VS somebody who put NONE into it. By the time you have 1 character leveled from VR1-VR14 and then played the game enough to get a full elite gear set fully upgraded to gold you already have enough CP to get 80% of the benefits with only 20% of the total effort. Second of all almost nobody has enough champion points to waste dumping a full 100pts into on passive without gimping themselves on the passives that would give themselves more significant benefits. If you have 4 characters (1 of each class for instance) and get them all to end game level and gear, you easily have enough champion points to wipe out any significant statistical difference in power. The power difference is further mitigated by the fact that 100 players are usually fighting in the same areas simultaneously and a few powerfull players can't impact the results of a conflict of that magnitude. Furthermore some of the no lifers with tons of CP will be YOUR ALLIES completely nullifying your entire argument.
By V14 you should be able to put in enough for 13.2%
Somebody with 300 CP points can get max stam regen of 25%. - 13.2 that's still 12% difference. On an equal playing field, 12% means a lot.
It doesn't matter if players have to allocate elsewhere, they still have an advantage equal to the 12% difference.
On GW2, people were losing their %$*^ over +5% difference in stats for new, expensive armor types.
10% is a lot, ESPECIALLY for high-end gameplay.
GW2 also has instanced team based PVP where small advantages make a much larger impact on balance. Also your 12% stamina regen doesn't mean jack because the majority of PvP encounters are over in seconds because of the damage output of most builds. Extra regen only helps in a prolonged encounter where you might actually run out of stamina or magic.
Lol, stam regen is one of the most important things in pvp mate, I don't know what you're on about. You can deplete your entire stam in 3 seconds0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In your example with simply 150 CP I can be only 7.5% away from someone who has 550 cp. Thats not an advantage at all compared to how much work it is getting those CP. So again your argument is for naught. Its not a big deal like you say. Pretty soon new players will be able to get CP quicker also so again your worries are for nothing.
Honestly if it bothers you this bad maybe another MMO is more your style.0 -
Shadesofkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!
Capping is not the answer. At no point in an ever expanding game should you (the player) be no longer capable of expanding your character in apparent ways. Gear, level's or some other type of progression, no matter what it is there must always be a form of continued progression for players.
Taking the CP system out isn't the answer either, Champion Points are actually a fine idea that just needs to be given a year.
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Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭wut ..wrong post lolEdited by Funkopotamus on June 20, 2015 8:41PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Shadesofkin wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!
Taking the CP system out isn't the answer either, Champion Points are actually a fine idea that just needs to be given a year.
Yeah but after that year you will have NO NEW PLAYERS to intern buy into ESO+ or the crown store== NO GAME
But yes you are correct it will give the 125 people left playing the game something to do I guess.......Edited by Funkopotamus on June 20, 2015 8:50PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
OP eve has a similar system of skill gain over time, where you gain skills just for subscribing into the game and paying a fee, it hasn't killed eve, doubt it will kill here.0
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Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Death by Hyperbole, then?
CP means that you always have a way to advance your character. You will never run out of ways to improve. That's attractive for people who play a lot.Edited by Snit on June 20, 2015 9:15PMSnit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade1 -
Craven_Killmore✭✭✭inb4 no mmo on the planet is fair, there will always be someone who puts in more work than you.2
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Shadesofkin wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!
Taking the CP system out isn't the answer either, Champion Points are actually a fine idea that just needs to be given a year.
Yeah but after that year you will have NO NEW PLAYERS to intern buy into ESO+ or the crown store== NO GAME
But yes you are correct it will give the 125 people left playing the game something to do I guess.......
There are tons of new players coming in all the time. In fact for pc sales this was in the top 5 "hot sellers". So even tho thats what you think that is not reality.0 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭CP is not infinite. So, it's not like hardcore grinders will always hold a major advantage over the rest. The ONLY issue with CP is the length of the journey to 3600 CP for the AVERAGE player. This is easily solved by adding "CP Weekends" or something similar. During that time you will receive a boost to all xp that goes towards your CP. To keep this system balanced(and to not just hand even more cp to the 1%) they can throttle the bonus awarded based on how many CP the player has already accumulated.
Example:
<100 cp = 5x xp bonus
>100 cp = 4x xp
>200 cp = 4x xp
>300 cp = 2x xp
≥400 cp = no bonus
Now of course those numbers can be changed to anything. The point is those that are behind will be able to reach that 3600 end goal a lot faster while significantly closing the gap between the average player vs hardcore grinder.King of Beasts0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZoS has purposely designed the CP system to create a gap between 24/7 players and casuals. You buying xp pots to keep up is whats going to pay their wages from now on.0 -
Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭Don't remove Champion Points. I'd rather that system than Veteran Ranks or seasonal gear. They just need to decrease the strength of the Champion System passives, and larger diminishing returns.Edited by Drazhar14 on June 20, 2015 10:11PM0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Yeah but after that year you will have NO NEW PLAYERS to intern buy into ESO+ or the crown store== NO GAME
But yes you are correct it will give the 125 people left playing the game something to do I guess.......
If Zeni doesn't fix all their bugs and doesn't deal with exploiters, and continues to allow PvP to be a ridiculous display of horse riding simulator and zerging/blobbing/grinders smashing non-grinders, it will be like what you said, in Cyrodiil anyway. Just talking PvP as PvE doesn't matter.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »ZoS has purposely designed the CP system to create a gap between 24/7 players and casuals. You buying xp pots to keep up is whats going to pay their wages from now on.
ZOS could just release actual content for people to buy if they want to make money... like all those new zone they have been teasing for a year.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Don't remove Champion Points. I'd rather that system than Veteran Ranks or seasonal gear. They just need to decrease the strength of the Champion System passives, and larger diminishing returns.
When people talk about diminishing returns I don't know what they think they're saying. The rate of return is quite linear.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't remove Champion Points. I'd rather that system than Veteran Ranks or seasonal gear. They just need to decrease the strength of the Champion System passives, and larger diminishing returns.
When people talk about diminishing returns I don't know what they think they're saying. The rate of return is quite linear.
An example is it takes 50 points to get 17.5% stamina regen. To get to 25% you need another 50 points. 25% is also the max you can get from said passive. So thats why people say the returns diminish as you sink points into them. Nevermind you cant just spend points in one tree. You have to spend points in the other two before you can spend another point in that one. So the system in my opinion is quite fair.0 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »Shadesofkin wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!
Taking the CP system out isn't the answer either, Champion Points are actually a fine idea that just needs to be given a year.
Yeah but after that year you will have NO NEW PLAYERS to intern buy into ESO+ or the crown store== NO GAME
But yes you are correct it will give the 125 people left playing the game something to do I guess.......
There are tons of new players coming in all the time. In fact for pc sales this was in the top 5 "hot sellers". So even tho thats what you think that is not reality.
CP is just now being openly discussed by the masses.. Take that into account before you get to happy.
Most of the player base had NO idea they were buying into a system like this. hence the mass returns people are trying to receive.Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »Shadesofkin wrote: »JacksonCarter13 wrote: »Take out champion points or leave it at a cap of about 300 or 350 for right now would completely fix the problem ... Until a good idea or new system can be implemented. It's a large amount but not unreasonable and the hardcore could actually reach it and have there little advantages would be fine!
Taking the CP system out isn't the answer either, Champion Points are actually a fine idea that just needs to be given a year.
Yeah but after that year you will have NO NEW PLAYERS to intern buy into ESO+ or the crown store== NO GAME
But yes you are correct it will give the 125 people left playing the game something to do I guess.......
There are tons of new players coming in all the time. In fact for pc sales this was in the top 5 "hot sellers". So even tho thats what you think that is not reality.
CP is just now being openly discussed by the masses.. Take that into account before you get to happy.
Most of the player base had NO idea they were buying into a system like this. hence the mass returns people are trying to receive.
What? lol CP has been in game for quite some time. What are talking bout? Everyone knew about CP long before it ever hit live servers. We were all allowed to play with it for a long time on the PTS. The only reason its being brought up again now is the XP pots affecting CP gain. CP was patched in 1.6.5. We are now at 2.0.11. It was a long time ago.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on June 20, 2015 10:25PM0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeWe stopped inviting people to the guild with less than 200 CP.
And yes the CP system is completely BSEdited by Alcast on June 20, 2015 10:33PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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BurtFreeman✭✭✭i read a lot in this discussion.
the fact the old veteran player are going to like cp, let me think that this game will not going to have long life, in term of longevity, this becouse the newbie will not have any weight.
a comunity grow up by the contribute of all the people, not just by the veteran, and if new player are not involved in a right way, they may choose other place to get fan.
dear veterans, cp account bound is a cheating and nothing esle, you may be defend this system, and as i say i full accept your point of view, but at the end you'll may find yourself play eso in a small numbers, as lot of gamers will leave for sure, once this kind of thinking will aprroch into p2w.
again to keep the comunity grow up we may chose to give full word at the new players, about what they are aspect to find in game, instead of raging against.
good discussion, good game.0 -
Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Don't remove Champion Points. I'd rather that system than Veteran Ranks or seasonal gear. They just need to decrease the strength of the Champion System passives, and larger diminishing returns.
When people talk about diminishing returns I don't know what they think they're saying. The rate of return is quite linear.
An example is it takes 50 points to get 17.5% stamina regen. To get to 25% you need another 50 points. 25% is also the max you can get from said passive. So thats why people say the returns diminish as you sink points into them. Nevermind you cant just spend points in one tree. You have to spend points in the other two before you can spend another point in that one. So the system in my opinion is quite fair.
An example of larger diminishing returns would be it takes 25 points to reach 15%, then 100 points to reach 25%. More of a bonus at lower levels, less of a bonus at higher levels. A 25% difference in stats is a noticeable and unfair gap though, so I suggest something like 30 points to reach 10%, and 100 points to reach 15% max.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BurtFreeman wrote: »i read a lot in this discussion.
the fact the old veteran player are going to like cp, let me think that this game will not going to have long life, in term of longevity, this becouse the newbie will not have any weight.
a comunity grow up by the contribute of all the people, not just by the veteran, and if new player are not involved in a right way, they may choose other place to get fan.
dear veterans, cp account bound is a cheating and nothing esle, you may be defend this system, and as i say i full accept your point of view, but at the end you'll may find yourself play eso in a small numbers, as lot of gamers will leave for sure, once this kind of thinking will aprroch into p2w.
again to keep the comunity grow up we may chose to give full word at the new players, about what they are aspect to find in game, instead of raging against.
good discussion, good game.
If you want a game where new players can compete right out of the box try the call of duty games or maybe GTAV. MMOs do not operate like that. You have to invest time in your character before you will be able to compete.0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BurtFreeman wrote: »i read a lot in this discussion.
the fact the old veteran player are going to like cp, let me think that this game will not going to have long life, in term of longevity, this becouse the newbie will not have any weight.
a comunity grow up by the contribute of all the people, not just by the veteran, and if new player are not involved in a right way, they may choose other place to get fan.
dear veterans, cp account bound is a cheating and nothing esle, you may be defend this system, and as i say i full accept your point of view, but at the end you'll may find yourself play eso in a small numbers, as lot of gamers will leave for sure, once this kind of thinking will aprroch into p2w.
again to keep the comunity grow up we may chose to give full word at the new players, about what they are aspect to find in game, instead of raging against.
good discussion, good game.
If you want a game where new players can compete right out of the box try the call of duty games or maybe GTAV. MMOs do not operate like that. You have to invest time in your character before you will be able to compete.
In most MMOs you get to end level, get the gear, and you can compete. You're on an even footing with seasoned players, and its then down to individual skill. That's not what we've got here.1 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BurtFreeman wrote: »i read a lot in this discussion.
the fact the old veteran player are going to like cp, let me think that this game will not going to have long life, in term of longevity, this becouse the newbie will not have any weight.
a comunity grow up by the contribute of all the people, not just by the veteran, and if new player are not involved in a right way, they may choose other place to get fan.
dear veterans, cp account bound is a cheating and nothing esle, you may be defend this system, and as i say i full accept your point of view, but at the end you'll may find yourself play eso in a small numbers, as lot of gamers will leave for sure, once this kind of thinking will aprroch into p2w.
again to keep the comunity grow up we may chose to give full word at the new players, about what they are aspect to find in game, instead of raging against.
good discussion, good game.
If you want a game where new players can compete right out of the box try the call of duty games or maybe GTAV. MMOs do not operate like that. You have to invest time in your character before you will be able to compete.
James I understand your point of view completely "if you will read as I said earlier I am blessed enough to have the time to grind if it comes to that", but you must think about the LONG TERM picture here.
Also I agree everyone should have to put effort into a character and not be god mode out of the box as you said. But I also do not think players should be punished just because they cannot wear diapers and live off of hot pockets and energy drinks just to be able to compete with me just because they bought the game 6 months after I did.Edited by Funkopotamus on June 20, 2015 10:45PMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington2 -
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