was 1.5 the better game?

VincentBlanquin · June 2015

i really hope this bursting is unintended and will be changed. only hardcores have fun now. i hope they know that hardcores will catter to camelot unchained anyway, when its launched, so they will make pvp more rpg than countersrolls

F7sus4 · June 2015

yes

Especially for (PvE) Magicka Nightblades.

Skiserony · June 2015

no

I actually like PvP way better now, it's hard to begin with but takes some practice.

The reason I like 1.6 better is that there are so many more viable builds now than 1.5. There are some very unique and iteresting builds, if you go to duels you see someone using skill barely used in PvP but still woop your ass with it. That's just awesome.

One thing I worry about is when we start hitting high CP ranks, because nerfs will have to happen then.

Roselle · June 2015

no

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

OP, need an Other option:

Some things were better in 1.5, some in 1.6+.

At least in 1.5 when you made changes, you could see the definitive results.

Half the time (at least with CP's), you can sink dozens of points into something and never know if it made a difference.

(For instance, I had someone say it was better to sink all points into Thurmaturge vs half there and half Elemental Expert, even though intuition indicates you'd get a higher increase from half in both when the ultimate damage was Elemental.)

kevlarto_ESO · June 2015

yes

1.5 even though the game balance was not perfect still better than 1.6 the most unbalanced and broken the game has been since launch imho. I think doing away with cap limits a bad thing, they have been in place in most all mmo's since the creation of the genre for a reason, this game relies to much on aoe over all that has been an issue since the beginning. I am speaking from mostly a pvp point of view, and just my opinion as a long time mmo player.
If PVE is better in 1.6 that's great maybe at some point they can bring pvp up to the same level.
Disclaimer, opinions may vary, please respect all points of view even if you do not agree..

danno8 · June 2015

Some things are better, some things are worse.

Better:
Stamina builds viable
Siege matters
Armour choice (lt,md,hvy) matters more
Lt armour, vamp, DK absolute dominance ended

Worse:
Softcaps needed to be raised, not removed completely
Champ system creating a steadily rising power creep
TTK way too low in some cases, way too high in others

Basically they needed to do some balance passes after 1.6, but have not. We also really need some soft caps back, higher than before so they aren't maxed out through simple racial passives, but not removed so that you are most effective in nearly all cases to simply load everything in to one stat.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2015

yes

Just reintroduce softcaps (and the old hp-scaling) and overhaul the CP system and it's gonna be fine.

Rohaus · June 2015

yes

Honestly, the only thing that I am not thrilled about with 1.6 is the Champion System. However, there were things done, with regards to PvP, that I think made it better... the siege weapons, for instance, doing more damage. This was a step in the right direction. DK’s getting knocked down from their high tower was a good thing… and this is coming from someone whose only character is a DK.

Sorcs and NB’s are now enjoying their perch… for how long? Who knows…

The Champion System grind is just the most epic grind I have ever seen placed in a MMO. And when I say epic, I don’t mean that as a good thing… it will probably take a year+ for Zeni to realize that the Champion System needs to be reworked in terms of how long it takes to achieve completing it.

So, I like the game in its current form… but I do really hope that Zeni will fix the CS grind some day.

Rhakon · June 2015

yes

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

lag or other bugs have nothing todo with gamemechanics...

we want 1.5 gameplay back. not this Championssystem stat reduced fights.
The burst has only be so high for console, because of slow playing there nothing would go down pre 1.6.
There are good things and bad things in 1.6, but this discussion should be about gameplay and not content or bugs.

removing softcaps destroyed hybrids! just stack one stat as high as possible makes you strong now...
regeneration is negligible...
2 shot pvp is boring, there a better games for this playstyle.

before 1.6 it was real fights in 1on1 you had to prepare your enemy and strike hard in the right moment to get the kill.
Now it is like Call of Duty ...

Elijah_Crow · June 2015

no

Post 1.6 is far better. There is a lot more build diversity supported and the removal of soft caps is one of the things which contribute to this. Never going back, never going to even consider.

Roselle · June 2015

no

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

lag or other bugs have nothing todo with gamemechanics...

we want 1.5 gameplay back. not this Championssystem stat reduced fights.
The burst has only be so high for console, because of slow playing there nothing would go down pre 1.6.
There are good things and bad things in 1.6, but this discussion should be about gameplay and not content or bugs.

removing softcaps destroyed hybrids! just stack one stat as high as possible makes you strong now...
regeneration is negligible...
2 shot pvp is boring, there a better games for this playstyle.

before 1.6 it was real fights in 1on1 you had to prepare your enemy and strike hard in the right moment to get the kill.
Now it is like Call of Duty ...

I really dislike people that don't understand references and mockery.

Rhakon · June 2015

yes

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Post 1.6 is far better. There is a lot more build diversity supported and the removal of soft caps is one of the things which contribute to this. Never going back, never going to even consider.

this is why every player is hunting for the same items....

I played hybrid in heavy armor medium and light before the 1.6 disaster, it destroyed so much possibilitys, now every one is running the same gear and stacks stats as high as possible to 1shot enemy or stay alive for ever... all between is not strong to play anymore.

PBpsy · June 2015

yes

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

I am not exactly sure what exactly I am to observe there?
Is it that fire destro staff spells were much better looking back then?
Yes. They looked much better.

Is it the PVP lag locking up the battle and the damage not registering? is it the fact that after all the fixes and measures that ZOS took to "fix" that kind of thing it still happens regularly in fights of that size?

Please elaborate.

EQBallzz · June 2015

yes

Yep. That was also prior to the B2P change and the awful P2W shop.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Post 1.6 is far better. There is a lot more build diversity supported and the removal of soft caps is one of the things which contribute to this. Never going back, never going to even consider.

Respectfully disagree. The builds are not more, they're just different.

There are still limited 'max' builds that are able to attain the same results, they simply require more detail, more investment (CP's), and if anything, more specific gear than 1.5 did.

Rhakon · June 2015

yes

Roselle wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

lag or other bugs have nothing todo with gamemechanics...

we want 1.5 gameplay back. not this Championssystem stat reduced fights.
The burst has only be so high for console, because of slow playing there nothing would go down pre 1.6.
There are good things and bad things in 1.6, but this discussion should be about gameplay and not content or bugs.

removing softcaps destroyed hybrids! just stack one stat as high as possible makes you strong now...
regeneration is negligible...
2 shot pvp is boring, there a better games for this playstyle.

before 1.6 it was real fights in 1on1 you had to prepare your enemy and strike hard in the right moment to get the kill.
Now it is like Call of Duty ...

I really dislike people that don't understand references and mockery.

Then explain your post please, where is your massage hidden?

I really dislike people that awkwardly try to communicate and then feel misunderstood and personally offended.

danno8 · June 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

I am not exactly sure what exactly I am to observe there?
Is it that fire destro staff spells were much better looking back then?
Yes. They looked much better.

Is it the PVP lag locking up the battle and the damage not registering? is it the fact that after all the fixes and measures that ZOS took to "fix" that kind of thing it still happens regularly in fights of that size?

Please elaborate.

I won't speak for her, but what I took from the video was that pre 1.6 everyone was a light armour wearing, destro staff wielding, impulse spammer. It was THE way to play.

Athas24 · June 2015

no

I love the game as it is now. As far as pvp related balance, I never end up really Fighting anyone. It's always 20 vs 4 or something dumb and when it's evenly matched siege equipment marks the winning side typically. Actual class abilities and such are a minor portion of what most successful pvp entails typically...unless your in a small group I suppose.

PBpsy · June 2015

yes

danno8 wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

I am not exactly sure what exactly I am to observe there?
Is it that fire destro staff spells were much better looking back then?
Yes. They looked much better.

Is it the PVP lag locking up the battle and the damage not registering? is it the fact that after all the fixes and measures that ZOS took to "fix" that kind of thing it still happens regularly in fights of that size?

Please elaborate.

I won't speak for her, but what I took from the video was that pre 1.6 everyone was a light armour wearing, destro staff wielding, impulse spammer. It was THE way to play.

...as opposed to a medium armor wearing, nirned out DW Steel tornado spammer?
Yeah. Ok.

Emma_Overload · June 2015

yes

If all they had done was get rid of soft caps, I would have been happy. The nerfs to Ultimates and spells like Critical Surge and Wall of Elements have made me so depressed!

Roselle · June 2015

no

PBpsy wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

I am not exactly sure what exactly I am to observe there?
Is it that fire destro staff spells were much better looking back then?
Yes. They looked much better.

Is it the PVP lag locking up the battle and the damage not registering? is it the fact that after all the fixes and measures that ZOS took to "fix" that kind of thing it still happens regularly in fights of that size?

Please elaborate.

Okay fine... I guess. I usually don't like to elaborate.

First off, my commentary was spot on for all the complaints being made at the time. I was making fun of everyone.

I was also trying to skill up and I just happened to go into Cyrodiil (specifically Roeback) during an amusing lag battle. I targeted people I either disliked or respected a lot throughout the video. (I also want to remind those that may not know, Minoa Heartless wasn't my first Templar.)

You only see me back peddling because people used to kick others out of guilds that used to do that (I was in a very hardcore WoW guild back in 2008 and I literally saw it happen once...)

Blah blah blah.

I was actually trying to get magicka back with a heavy attack (which is what you sometimes had to do if you were OOM up until 1.6)

Blah blah. Now you might know why I rolled my eyes at you commenting in my direction. I mock everyone and only seriously rage under certain circumstances.

To sum it up:
You can still recreate what I was doing back in 2014 but now you can do it with more style. And if course by more style, I mean you can still live under very hard circumstances and wear 0 nirnhoned and only have like 8k physical resistance.

And that is why I think 1.6 is better.

Sensesfail13 · June 2015

yes

Yes, yes, and more yes. 1.5 was finally getting the game on track, anybody that thinks otherwise is a troll. When they implemented 1.6 its like they started a game of 52 pick up. Just tossing everything in the air and making it viable to have this bs where some people are drastically overpowered and others are... less so.
It made it possible for those with lesser morality to exploit their way to the top way easier and didnt really fix any of the bugs.. oh and I saw heavy armor got "buffed" yea Im not seeing it heavy armor is a pos skill line at the moment and its nearly mental to play a tank out in pvp anymore.

I have yet to see what difference there is in PVE comparatively, the bugs have changed but its still the same ol' same ol'. Too many problems and now we have the combat glitch, thats fun cant get through doors. Wtf are people thinking, probably the same people that run around with Holy Dragons crew in pvp getting farmed and pvdoor'ing the map thinking they own the place.

UrQuan · June 2015

no

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

lag or other bugs have nothing todo with gamemechanics...

we want 1.5 gameplay back. not this Championssystem stat reduced fights.
The burst has only be so high for console, because of slow playing there nothing would go down pre 1.6.
There are good things and bad things in 1.6, but this discussion should be about gameplay and not content or bugs.

removing softcaps destroyed hybrids! just stack one stat as high as possible makes you strong now...
regeneration is negligible...
2 shot pvp is boring, there a better games for this playstyle.

before 1.6 it was real fights in 1on1 you had to prepare your enemy and strike hard in the right moment to get the kill.
Now it is like Call of Duty ...

I really dislike people that don't understand references and mockery.

Then explain your post please, where is your massage hidden?

I really dislike people that awkwardly try to communicate and then feel misunderstood and personally offended.

Somehow I doubt you'll be getting any massages from her, whether hidden or not.

Farorin · June 2015

no

I prefer how it is now, because as a NB I can finally play like a NB should, stealthy, hit and run, ganktastic, yet with the logical drawback of being crap in a long winded fight.

I also like that medium armour is not useless anymore as it was always my favourite

Personofsecrets · June 2015

yes

Frenkthevile wrote: »

The only one that should like the 1.5 more than the 1.6 is a Staff+Pajama Sorceror.

except "staff+pajama" sorcerer are pulling 18k dps now. Look at the eu SO hardmode record line up and consider that before you think that only people who you perceive to be nerfed could possibly like 1.5. The same can be said the opposite way. The current vdsa leaders had a post in the forums recently where they suggested that champion points create an unfair disparity in competition - they are a group of templars.

Roselle · June 2015

no

UrQuan wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Roselle wrote: »

Those that think 1.5 was better might want to check out one of my earlier troll videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B3NJqWNJNQ

In case you're not observant, look at the date and my level before watching.

lag or other bugs have nothing todo with gamemechanics...

we want 1.5 gameplay back. not this Championssystem stat reduced fights.
The burst has only be so high for console, because of slow playing there nothing would go down pre 1.6.
There are good things and bad things in 1.6, but this discussion should be about gameplay and not content or bugs.

removing softcaps destroyed hybrids! just stack one stat as high as possible makes you strong now...
regeneration is negligible...
2 shot pvp is boring, there a better games for this playstyle.

before 1.6 it was real fights in 1on1 you had to prepare your enemy and strike hard in the right moment to get the kill.
Now it is like Call of Duty ...

I really dislike people that don't understand references and mockery.

Then explain your post please, where is your massage hidden?

I really dislike people that awkwardly try to communicate and then feel misunderstood and personally offended.

Somehow I doubt you'll be getting any massages from her, whether hidden or not.

I will only massage Ashirok!!!

TheBonesXXX · June 2015

no

No, it wasn't the better game. It was every class can dps, tank, and heal at the same time and fights in Cyrodiil lasted forever, reflect-bolt-42 skill point spam stupidity.

Does ESO need work? Yes, yes it does. Is it perfect? No. Does anyone here have the magical answer on how to fix PvP? nope. Is it gonna take some time? Yep.

WebBull · June 2015

no

It wasn't any better. Still just as many problems. Basically the same imo. 1.6 could have been much better if they had followed up with 1or 2 balancing patches.

Psychobunni · June 2015

yes

When 1.6 hit I had been just starting to join trials and doing DSA with my main, a magicka based sorc and having a lot of fun with it. I don't like the changes 1.6 brought and alternative builds I've seen and things I tried just held no appeal. So for me 1.6 killed the most fun I was having in ESO. She is an amazing mail checker now!

On the up side, I have brought up a V7 (now) a stam templar that I have some fun with puttering around solo, I don't expect to be taking her into group content, but she would undoubtedly have been less fun in 1.5

That's just me

Edit: My thinking is also not related to PVP in any way. How PVP was/is is irrelevant (to me) because I don't play it...for the sake of my view on this OP