Rylana's Ramblings - 18 months of Cyrodiil

krim · June 2015

@Xsorus
The only way to stop zerg balling in cyrodiil is instanced pvp. There really is no other way. Almost every change possible makes the group with more numbers stronger. To me there is no difference between zerg balling and a zerg, its the same thing. The only difference to you is how stacked up a group is.

Fatalyis · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

But ya the server can't cope with people like right on top of one another spamming abilities. Basically lags the server out.

I didn't want to get involved here because, to be quite honest, this entire argument is based on conjecture. This quote, however, is exactly why no one is taking your "100% players fault" argument honestly. The servers can't cope. The blame falls on ZOS for not:

a) providing better servers to handle the load

b) providing sound updates to reduce load

I have to agree with everything @krim stated above. I was with ER for some time throughout beta and into release. You can call it whatever flashy, newfangled name you want (bomb squad, zergball, etc.) but we played no different than how a handful of guilds play now. This was back when ground oil was a big thing...and there were countless times when we would be chased by 30-40 players...at which point we would "stack up" behind a rock and drop oils, banners, negates etc.

People have been "zergballing" since beta....I've seen it...I've done it...I've died to it.

I don't think they can provide better servers to handle the load, the same thing you're seeing here happened in pretty much every game that had stacking like this and spamming..Hell it even happened in GW2 where ya couldn't spam.

It's also not conjecture, if you've not seen enough proof of it by now you're simply not pvping or have pvped in the past year simple as that.

Also looking at the video you are playing different. You're not stacking...you're basically zerging around like pretty much every other pug player did back then in a zerg. Only difference between you and a pug zerg back then was you had actual support. i mean we did basically the same thing you did in that video with 6 people countless times at the start of the game because you really only needed 2 DK's to pretty much instant kill a group of people. There is also a difference between a Bomb Squad and a Zergball. Support don't stack with the DPS in a Bomb Squad, Support Stack with the DPS in a Zergball (Everyone stacks)

Now i'm hesitant to call you a Bomb Squad simply because I always view Bomb Squads as smaller groups, while that video you were just a Zerg using Bomb Squad Tactics...

Either way, If you're trying to argue that you were trying to zergball back then I can only say two things to that

You were doing a poor job of it in the video

And you were stupid for even trying to do it back then...There is multiple instances in that video where a single 6 to 8 man that wasn't a bunch of pug players would of wiped your entire 24 man zerg back then in a bout 2 seconds. Zergballing back then would of only made it easier to accomplish.

Look, buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I've spent 85% of my time on ESO in Cyrodiil (leveled up exclusively in Cyrodiil from VR3-14...if that shows you how committed I am to PvP). You feel free to call it whatever you want, and base all of your assumptions on how we played based off of that video.

Everything that you've described when referencing the word "zergballing" was being done all the way back to beta. Regardless of whether we were "stupid" or not for doing it, we were doing it and were quite successful at it....as were other groups who were doing the same thing.

The fact remains that the quality of the servers, and ZOS inability to provide the means to fix the lag/latency issues, are to blame.

Huckdabuck · June 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus -

Nobody cares about what happened in DAOC except you.

Call me selfish, call me inconsiderate, call me whatever, I do not care. I will Zergball because these are legitimate skills that are being used with legitimate functions. I will Zergball because my opponents Zergball as it is the best strategy within the parameters and mechanics of the game that Zos has provided us. I will Zergball you because I want to win, I want AP, and I want to go to bed with an inflated ego knowing I have crushed my enemies. It is ZoS's responsibility to provide you with the tools and counterplay to efficiently and effectively put an end to my "zergballing" or whatever else I do that draw your ire, sneers, and condescending remarks that I am unskilled and ruined ESO for you. It is not my responsibility to intentionally run an inefficient build or use suboptimal tactics that conform to your preference on how the game should be played.

And you have to just STOP insisting that it was only recently that somehow people started "zergballing" or whatever specious term you are throwing out there in a desperate 'attempt to not to admit you are WRONG. I am amazed and astounded that people have told you straight up that they were "Zergballing" and in zergballing guilds and yet you insist they were not doing this. WUT?

When I was in TSYM, our guildleader group leader would intentionally use skills like lightning form so as to ensure we all knew where he was and stacked directly on top of him. When he was dissatisfied that our group of 24 was too spread out - in a 6 meter radius - he made us download the Extermintus Group Leader add one which put a huge brightly colored arrow in the middle of the screen pointing to wherever the Crown was. He wrote a guild where the our entire attack strategy was "dump all mana in PBAOE attacks." We never selected our own targets; all of these attacks were to be spammed on the exact spot where the raid leader was standing.

To further quote from his guide: "In response to DC zuper-zergs stacking to exploit their numbers for insane survivability. Get you ass to crown, stack inside of my character model, and burn everything you have. [emphasis added].

So not only we we doing it, but so were the very guilds that we were fighting. This wasn't last week, last month, or last patch. This was back last May, June - the guild leader left that game in July 2014.

While you were playing DAOC and self-policing that community back in the Spring/Summer of 2014 - it is obvious from what you posted you weren't paying attention to what was happening in ESO - I and many other posters in this thread were "zergballing." That you can sit there and type with a straight face that we somehow weren't is a level of conceit and intellectual arrogance that goes beyond stubbornness or sticking your head in the sand. I joined those raid groups, I sat in their meetings, I did their "training" runs in Cyordiil where it was drilled into our heads to STACK on the raid leader, have zero individuality regarding our thoughts and even our builds, to use his words: "Stay together! If you are in the back, sprint! If you are ahead, slow down! We call TSYM lagging behind the team limping gazelles, and if you want to know why, watch the nature channel." Yet you are going to sit there and insist that I didn't. OK, whatever

Agree...one hundred million percent. This is ESO....not GW2 whatever or DAOC whatchallit. When I was here the first time around (in beta through the great lighting patch June/July 2014).....people were stacking like there was no tomorrow once they realized that there was "stupid freaking healing" with pools/random players getting the heal and not a click and directly heal the person who was low on health. I ran with multiple PvP guilds over that initial 3 month period and they would all be considered "zergballs" because our support players stacked up and were with the group lead/dps......the main reason for this "stupid move" as whatshisnuts refers to in another post somewhere here....the healers were protected if they were in the big ball of nasty versus sitting away from it and susceptible to be picked off by randoms.

Sacadon · June 2015

@Rylana, post is spot-on.

But I don't think such well constructed summaries help increase retention of players. I think it accelerates them leaving actually. ZOS knows these things, and restating them again for us that have been around a while just feeds the monster of resentment.

What we need is more posts on the positive aspects of PvP, how to have fun with what we have right now and avoid yet another topic on lag, exploiting, nerfing etc... After the first 4 weeks of non-stop coverage on a topic, ZOS gets the message and the rest just continues to sour things. Doesn't mean every post has to be blowing sunshine either. So please don't take my thoughts to the extreme as that is not the intent here.

BTW, Rylana, I'm not targeting you directly on this because most of your posts are very constructive. Just thought it made sense to mention this and hopefully get away from the topic of 100% blame on players for lag.

Poxheart · June 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember there being a crown icon for group leader when the game launched. I seem to recall that the crown was added around the time of the lighting patch.

Patch 1.1.2.

In other words, not Day 1.

Fatalyis · June 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

What we need is more posts on the positive aspects of PvP, how to have fun with what we have right now and avoid yet another topic on lag, exploiting, nerfing etc...

Positive aspects of PvP (for me):

No queues on any server

That's about it. It's terribly difficult to have fun with the lag, exploiting, etc. These last few weeks have involved me logging in to Cyrodiil, playing 5-10 minutes (usually when the first latency spike hits), dying because abilities don't go off or weapon swap doesn't work, logging off. Sadly, this happens in 1v1 fights far removed from big battles.

I'm not denying that the PVP is enjoyable...it is some of the best PVP available at the moment...but for me, in it's current state, the frustration this game brings overshadows any enjoyment that it normally brings.

Fatalyis · June 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember there being a crown icon for group leader when the game launched. I seem to recall that the crown was added around the time of the lighting patch.

Patch 1.1.2.

In other words, not Day 1.

Very observant!

Back then, it was always "bring them through the archway and stack up on the left" or "stack up on the tower door".

Xsorus · June 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus -

Nobody cares about what happened in DAOC except you.

Call me selfish, call me inconsiderate, call me whatever, I do not care. I will Zergball because these are legitimate skills that are being used with legitimate functions. I will Zergball because my opponents Zergball as it is the best strategy within the parameters and mechanics of the game that Zos has provided us. I will Zergball you because I want to win, I want AP, and I want to go to bed with an inflated ego knowing I have crushed my enemies. It is ZoS's responsibility to provide you with the tools and counterplay to efficiently and effectively put an end to my "zergballing" or whatever else I do that draw your ire, sneers, and condescending remarks that I am unskilled and ruined ESO for you. It is not my responsibility to intentionally run an inefficient build or use suboptimal tactics that conform to your preference on how the game should be played.

And you have to just STOP insisting that it was only recently that somehow people started "zergballing" or whatever specious term you are throwing out there in a desperate 'attempt to not to admit you are WRONG. I am amazed and astounded that people have told you straight up that they were "Zergballing" and in zergballing guilds and yet you insist they were not doing this. WUT?

When I was in TSYM, our guildleader group leader would intentionally use skills like lightning form so as to ensure we all knew where he was and stacked directly on top of him. When he was dissatisfied that our group of 24 was too spread out - in a 6 meter radius - he made us download the Extermintus Group Leader add one which put a huge brightly colored arrow in the middle of the screen pointing to wherever the Crown was. He wrote a guild where the our entire attack strategy was "dump all mana in PBAOE attacks." We never selected our own targets; all of these attacks were to be spammed on the exact spot where the raid leader was standing.

To further quote from his guide: "In response to DC zuper-zergs stacking to exploit their numbers for insane survivability. Get you ass to crown, stack inside of my character model, and burn everything you have. [emphasis added].

So not only we we doing it, but so were the very guilds that we were fighting. This wasn't last week, last month, or last patch. This was back last May, June - the guild leader left that game in July 2014.

While you were playing DAOC and self-policing that community back in the Spring/Summer of 2014 - it is obvious from what you posted you weren't paying attention to what was happening in ESO - I and many other posters in this thread were "zergballing." That you can sit there and type with a straight face that we somehow weren't is a level of conceit and intellectual arrogance that goes beyond stubbornness or sticking your head in the sand. I joined those raid groups, I sat in their meetings, I did their "training" runs in Cyordiil where it was drilled into our heads to STACK on the raid leader, have zero individuality regarding our thoughts and even our builds, to use his words: "Stay together! If you are in the back, sprint! If you are ahead, slow down! We call TSYM lagging behind the team limping gazelles, and if you want to know why, watch the nature channel." Yet you are going to sit there and insist that I didn't. OK, whatever

1. First part is you telling me you want to zerg ball because it is the most effective thing to do right now, I agree it is the most effective thing to do right now, Don't whine about lag cause you're the one causing it though
2. Second paragraph, I'm amazed that you have people posting videos of them saying they were zerg balling, when they clearly weren't...and I'm even more amazed they would try and admit to even attempting to zergball pre 1.2 because that would probably the dumbest thing you could do in the game back then.
3. Again if you stacked before the they fixed AOE caps, you were dumb...I'm pretty sure your DPS stacked..but if your support was in on it geez dude...that's sad
4. Ok now i know you're talking about after the AOE caps were fixed....
5. Ive been playing ESO since its beta mate..Everything in your post screams you talking about after they fixed things like Talons and Standard not having Caps. Stacking Pre that was just asking to die...I'm sorry it was...If your guild leader asked you to do that back then he was leading you to certain death. However just looking at when you're talking about it seems he was doing it after Cap Fix and that was the smart thing to do if ya had enough people.

Xsorus · June 2015

krim wrote: »

@Xsorus
The only way to stop zerg balling in cyrodiil is instanced pvp. There really is no other way. Almost every change possible makes the group with more numbers stronger. To me there is no difference between zerg balling and a zerg, its the same thing. The only difference to you is how stacked up a group is.

That kind is the only difference that really matters krim.

Xsorus · June 2015

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus -

Nobody cares about what happened in DAOC except you.

Call me selfish, call me inconsiderate, call me whatever, I do not care. I will Zergball because these are legitimate skills that are being used with legitimate functions. I will Zergball because my opponents Zergball as it is the best strategy within the parameters and mechanics of the game that Zos has provided us. I will Zergball you because I want to win, I want AP, and I want to go to bed with an inflated ego knowing I have crushed my enemies. It is ZoS's responsibility to provide you with the tools and counterplay to efficiently and effectively put an end to my "zergballing" or whatever else I do that draw your ire, sneers, and condescending remarks that I am unskilled and ruined ESO for you. It is not my responsibility to intentionally run an inefficient build or use suboptimal tactics that conform to your preference on how the game should be played.

And you have to just STOP insisting that it was only recently that somehow people started "zergballing" or whatever specious term you are throwing out there in a desperate 'attempt to not to admit you are WRONG. I am amazed and astounded that people have told you straight up that they were "Zergballing" and in zergballing guilds and yet you insist they were not doing this. WUT?

When I was in TSYM, our guildleader group leader would intentionally use skills like lightning form so as to ensure we all knew where he was and stacked directly on top of him. When he was dissatisfied that our group of 24 was too spread out - in a 6 meter radius - he made us download the Extermintus Group Leader add one which put a huge brightly colored arrow in the middle of the screen pointing to wherever the Crown was. He wrote a guild where the our entire attack strategy was "dump all mana in PBAOE attacks." We never selected our own targets; all of these attacks were to be spammed on the exact spot where the raid leader was standing.

To further quote from his guide: "In response to DC zuper-zergs stacking to exploit their numbers for insane survivability. Get you ass to crown, stack inside of my character model, and burn everything you have. [emphasis added].

So not only we we doing it, but so were the very guilds that we were fighting. This wasn't last week, last month, or last patch. This was back last May, June - the guild leader left that game in July 2014.

While you were playing DAOC and self-policing that community back in the Spring/Summer of 2014 - it is obvious from what you posted you weren't paying attention to what was happening in ESO - I and many other posters in this thread were "zergballing." That you can sit there and type with a straight face that we somehow weren't is a level of conceit and intellectual arrogance that goes beyond stubbornness or sticking your head in the sand. I joined those raid groups, I sat in their meetings, I did their "training" runs in Cyordiil where it was drilled into our heads to STACK on the raid leader, have zero individuality regarding our thoughts and even our builds, to use his words: "Stay together! If you are in the back, sprint! If you are ahead, slow down! We call TSYM lagging behind the team limping gazelles, and if you want to know why, watch the nature channel." Yet you are going to sit there and insist that I didn't. OK, whatever

Agree...one hundred million percent. This is ESO....not GW2 whatever or DAOC whatchallit. When I was here the first time around (in beta through the great lighting patch June/July 2014).....people were stacking like there was no tomorrow once they realized that there was "stupid freaking healing" with pools/random players getting the heal and not a click and directly heal the person who was low on health. I ran with multiple PvP guilds over that initial 3 month period and they would all be considered "zergballs" because our support players stacked up and were with the group lead/dps......the main reason for this "stupid move" as whatshisnuts refers to in another post somewhere here....the healers were protected if they were in the big ball of nasty versus sitting away from it and susceptible to be picked off by randoms.

At any other point after the AOE cap change this would of been correct. Before that though stacking your healers in the area that was most likely going to have 2 Banners dropped on it which not only did a STUPID amount of damage but also stacked two 50% healing debuffs on top of the area was just stupid. I can understand having your DPS stacked for the PBAE effect..but stacking your heals directly on top of it was just asking to die.

Xsorus · June 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember there being a crown icon for group leader when the game launched. I seem to recall that the crown was added around the time of the lighting patch.

Patch 1.1.2.

In other words, not Day 1.

That was actually the patch that fixed AOE Caps on some abilities not being there

Lava_Croft · June 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

@Rylana, post is spot-on.

But I don't think such well constructed summaries help increase retention of players. I think it accelerates them leaving actually. ZOS knows these things, and restating them again for us that have been around a while just feeds the monster of resentment.

What we need is more posts on the positive aspects of PvP, how to have fun with what we have right now and avoid yet another topic on lag, exploiting, nerfing etc... After the first 4 weeks of non-stop coverage on a topic, ZOS gets the message and the rest just continues to sour things. Doesn't mean every post has to be blowing sunshine either. So please don't take my thoughts to the extreme as that is not the intent here.

BTW, Rylana, I'm not targeting you directly on this because most of your posts are very constructive. Just thought it made sense to mention this and hopefully get away from the topic of 100% blame on players for lag.

You

Poxheart wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember there being a crown icon for group leader when the game launched. I seem to recall that the crown was added around the time of the lighting patch.

Patch 1.1.2.

In other words, not Day 1.

On day 1 (and until 1.1.2) we would use Finvir's Trinket (or whatever) to generate a nice blue beam to stack on.

krim · June 2015

@Xsorus
The whole argument of blaming the players for causing the lag is flawed. Obviously if there are no players there is no lag. I dont think you can fix that problem by trying to eliminate zerg balling. Especially with the current combat conditions in cyrodiil. Impossible task I dont think it would be a pvp game anymore.

Xsorus · June 2015

krim wrote: »

@Xsorus
The whole argument of blaming the players for causing the lag is flawed. Obviously if there are no players there is no lag. I dont think you can fix that problem by trying to eliminate zerg balling. Especially with the current combat conditions in cyrodiil. Impossible task I dont think it would be a pvp game anymore.

See i have a feeling you think I want to eliminate zerging...Which I don't want to eliminate.

I want to eliminate the ability to stack like a 24 man group in a small area and just spam AoE over and over and Heals to survive.

For example.

I want to eliminate this type of game play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQGfWbyU_Hk

Not the type you seen in the ER video

To get rid of the type in the video I posted, you can do subtle things like capping things like Barrier/Purge/Vigor

and removing the ability to purge Oil catapults snare and such....This would still allow ya to move in a giant zerg and do zerg things but if you stacked up in a tight ball you'd be punished for it...which is kind of how it should be.

Lava_Croft · June 2015

Just go back to DAoC and pretend you are playing large-scale PvP in your 8v8 non-zerg battles.

krim · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

krim wrote: »

@Xsorus
The whole argument of blaming the players for causing the lag is flawed. Obviously if there are no players there is no lag. I dont think you can fix that problem by trying to eliminate zerg balling. Especially with the current combat conditions in cyrodiil. Impossible task I dont think it would be a pvp game anymore.

See i have a feeling you think I want to eliminate zerging...Which I don't want to eliminate.

I want to eliminate the ability to stack like a 24 man group in a small area and just spam AoE over and over and Heals to survive.

For example.

I want to eliminate this type of game play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQGfWbyU_Hk

Not the type you seen in the ER video

To get rid of the type in the video I posted, you can do subtle things like capping things like Barrier/Purge/Vigor

and removing the ability to purge Oil catapults snare and such....This would still allow ya to move in a giant zerg and do zerg things but if you stacked up in a tight ball you'd be punished for it...which is kind of how it should be.

lol you just linked a video of guilds with equal numbers going at it head to head. No siege no tower no keep no objectives what so ever. Thats not a good representation of what eso game play is like at all.

Xsorus · June 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just go back to DAoC and pretend you are playing large-scale PvP in your 8v8 non-zerg battles.

I'm starting to think you didn't play DAOC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA

This was in 2007...Well after the games prime time..

There were zergs in that game that would boggle your mind...We're talking entire Realms of 500+ people stacked in area the size of Glademist

Lava_Croft · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just go back to DAoC and pretend you are playing large-scale PvP in your 8v8 non-zerg battles.

I'm starting to think you didn't play DAOC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA

This was in 2007...Well after the games prime time..

There were zergs in that game that would boggle your mind...We're talking entire Realms of 500+ people stacked in area the size of Glademist

And woooosh it went, over your head!

Poxheart · June 2015

krim wrote: »

@Xsorus
The whole argument of blaming the players for causing the lag is flawed. Obviously if there are no players there is no lag. I dont think you can fix that problem by trying to eliminate zerg balling. Especially with the current combat conditions in cyrodiil. Impossible task I dont think it would be a pvp game anymore.

Blackwater Blade is proof that the game doesn't lag when there are no zergballs.

krim · June 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

krim wrote: »

@Xsorus
The whole argument of blaming the players for causing the lag is flawed. Obviously if there are no players there is no lag. I dont think you can fix that problem by trying to eliminate zerg balling. Especially with the current combat conditions in cyrodiil. Impossible task I dont think it would be a pvp game anymore.

Blackwater Blade is proof that the game doesn't lag when there are no zergballs.

So does that mean you think players are at fault for the lag. When they are playing the game how it was designed?

Huckdabuck · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus -

Nobody cares about what happened in DAOC except you.

Call me selfish, call me inconsiderate, call me whatever, I do not care. I will Zergball because these are legitimate skills that are being used with legitimate functions. I will Zergball because my opponents Zergball as it is the best strategy within the parameters and mechanics of the game that Zos has provided us. I will Zergball you because I want to win, I want AP, and I want to go to bed with an inflated ego knowing I have crushed my enemies. It is ZoS's responsibility to provide you with the tools and counterplay to efficiently and effectively put an end to my "zergballing" or whatever else I do that draw your ire, sneers, and condescending remarks that I am unskilled and ruined ESO for you. It is not my responsibility to intentionally run an inefficient build or use suboptimal tactics that conform to your preference on how the game should be played.

And you have to just STOP insisting that it was only recently that somehow people started "zergballing" or whatever specious term you are throwing out there in a desperate 'attempt to not to admit you are WRONG. I am amazed and astounded that people have told you straight up that they were "Zergballing" and in zergballing guilds and yet you insist they were not doing this. WUT?

When I was in TSYM, our guildleader group leader would intentionally use skills like lightning form so as to ensure we all knew where he was and stacked directly on top of him. When he was dissatisfied that our group of 24 was too spread out - in a 6 meter radius - he made us download the Extermintus Group Leader add one which put a huge brightly colored arrow in the middle of the screen pointing to wherever the Crown was. He wrote a guild where the our entire attack strategy was "dump all mana in PBAOE attacks." We never selected our own targets; all of these attacks were to be spammed on the exact spot where the raid leader was standing.

To further quote from his guide: "In response to DC zuper-zergs stacking to exploit their numbers for insane survivability. Get you ass to crown, stack inside of my character model, and burn everything you have. [emphasis added].

So not only we we doing it, but so were the very guilds that we were fighting. This wasn't last week, last month, or last patch. This was back last May, June - the guild leader left that game in July 2014.

While you were playing DAOC and self-policing that community back in the Spring/Summer of 2014 - it is obvious from what you posted you weren't paying attention to what was happening in ESO - I and many other posters in this thread were "zergballing." That you can sit there and type with a straight face that we somehow weren't is a level of conceit and intellectual arrogance that goes beyond stubbornness or sticking your head in the sand. I joined those raid groups, I sat in their meetings, I did their "training" runs in Cyordiil where it was drilled into our heads to STACK on the raid leader, have zero individuality regarding our thoughts and even our builds, to use his words: "Stay together! If you are in the back, sprint! If you are ahead, slow down! We call TSYM lagging behind the team limping gazelles, and if you want to know why, watch the nature channel." Yet you are going to sit there and insist that I didn't. OK, whatever

Agree...one hundred million percent. This is ESO....not GW2 whatever or DAOC whatchallit. When I was here the first time around (in beta through the great lighting patch June/July 2014).....people were stacking like there was no tomorrow once they realized that there was "stupid freaking healing" with pools/random players getting the heal and not a click and directly heal the person who was low on health. I ran with multiple PvP guilds over that initial 3 month period and they would all be considered "zergballs" because our support players stacked up and were with the group lead/dps......the main reason for this "stupid move" as whatshisnuts refers to in another post somewhere here....the healers were protected if they were in the big ball of nasty versus sitting away from it and susceptible to be picked off by randoms.

At any other point after the AOE cap change this would of been correct. Before that though stacking your healers in the area that was most likely going to have 2 Banners dropped on it which not only did a STUPID amount of damage but also stacked two 50% healing debuffs on top of the area was just stupid. I can understand having your DPS stacked for the PBAE effect..but stacking your heals directly on top of it was just asking to die.

Yet we did and so did everyone else at the time which continued on until the present. Just letting you know from an old hat who was doing the very play style which you claim wasn't around much prior to 1.whatever. I saw it often from the organized raid groups....like on a REALLY regular basis. Most of the early fights came down to who could drop the most ultimates anyway....just like it is at times today. Also, any organized group (back then and even today) knows that if you stop and stack then you are dead (which would be the only reason that you'd have your healers/support guys not sitting in the group since they don't need to move to stay with the group)......this game is all about movement and speed. So I can see where you'd say that the "zergballs" (aka the groups that don't move like in your video above) were pretty non-existent because if anyone stands still for more than 3 seconds you're done. BARRIER, RAPIDS, & MOVE.

Poxheart · June 2015

If you look at Zenimax's videos promoting PvP you'll notice that none of them depict players stacked on top of each other spamming AOE abilities, so I don't buy into the claims that playing that way represents "playing the game how it was designed." In my opinion that's an excuse bads use to justify their bad behavior.

To answer your question: I think Zenimax is at fault for releasing a game in which zergballing is the most efficient form of group play when the game can't actually handle that style of play AND the players are at fault for continuing to zergball when they know the game can't handle it. In other words they're both at fault.

Since it's unlikely that Zenimax can actually do anything to fix the lag problem (otherwise they would have done so by now), this game is going to continue to lose PvP players because the zergballers aren't willing to accept their role in the problem & change the way they play.

Huckdabuck · June 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

If you look at Zenimax's videos promoting PvP you'll notice that none of them depict players stacked on top of each other spamming AOE abilities, so I don't buy into the claims that playing that way represents "playing the game how it was designed." In my opinion that's an excuse bads use to justify their bad behavior.

To answer your question: I think Zenimax is at fault for releasing a game in which zergballing is the most efficient form of group play when the game can't actually handle that style of play AND the players are at fault for continuing to zergball when they know the game can't handle it. In other words they're both at fault.

Since it's unlikely that Zenimax can actually do anything to fix the lag problem (otherwise they would have done so by now), this game is going to continue to lose PvP players because the zergballers aren't willing to accept their role in the problem & change the way they play.

They also depict players playing the game however they want.....they don't show the players who chose a less than optimal build getting wrecked by the optimal builds either. Just because they don't show it doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that they didn't expect it to happen.

Bouvin · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

But it's the way ZoS has designed the game to incentivize the zerg blobs.

1. Zerg Blobbing nets the fastest AP gains.
2. Zerg Blobbing is the most effective way to take objectives.
3. Zerg Blobbs can quickly move around the map to take or defend keeps because of keep porting.
4. Outside of Keeps and Outposts, there aren't any other objectives except resources.. which lie in such proximity to keeps that a zerg blob can move from resource to resource and claim each at a keep within a few minutes.

Bouvin · June 2015

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Okay, so here's a video of the guild that got first beta and live emperor, less than a week after launch, blobbing together spamming AOE... To make it easy for you, there's a great example of this at 6:00, but its all over the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuI-fl0fCbc

So, now that you've been thoroughly disproven, now that your argument has been shown time and time again to be wrong, just admit it that you're wrong and move on.

ZOS is to blame for the lag, not the players who've been playing it the same way since its launch.

Yep. And how many of these people in the video still play?

That should be an indication of where the game is headed.

PeggymoeXD · June 2015

Couldn't have said it better myself. I've only ever complained on the forums because I want so badly for this game to function properly. I have had my sub cancelled for a few months now and am paying for FFXIV until this game gives me reason to invest again. I would much rather be in Cyrodiil 24/7 like I was upon launch, but the same system, bugs, and lag for over a year can only be tolerated for so long. ZOS, we WANT this game to succeed. PLEASE give us a reason to stay!

Poxheart · June 2015

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

If you look at Zenimax's videos promoting PvP you'll notice that none of them depict players stacked on top of each other spamming AOE abilities, so I don't buy into the claims that playing that way represents "playing the game how it was designed." In my opinion that's an excuse bads use to justify their bad behavior.

To answer your question: I think Zenimax is at fault for releasing a game in which zergballing is the most efficient form of group play when the game can't actually handle that style of play AND the players are at fault for continuing to zergball when they know the game can't handle it. In other words they're both at fault.

Since it's unlikely that Zenimax can actually do anything to fix the lag problem (otherwise they would have done so by now), this game is going to continue to lose PvP players because the zergballers aren't willing to accept their role in the problem & change the way they play.

They also depict players playing the game however they want.....they don't show the players who chose a less than optimal build getting wrecked by the optimal builds either. Just because they don't show it doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that they didn't expect it to happen.

Found a zergbaler.

Fatalyis · June 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Okay, so here's a video of the guild that got first beta and live emperor, less than a week after launch, blobbing together spamming AOE... To make it easy for you, there's a great example of this at 6:00, but its all over the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuI-fl0fCbc

So, now that you've been thoroughly disproven, now that your argument has been shown time and time again to be wrong, just admit it that you're wrong and move on.

ZOS is to blame for the lag, not the players who've been playing it the same way since its launch.

Yep. And how many of these people in the video still play?

That should be an indication of where the game is headed.

I'm still here.....barely hanging on

RadioheadSh0t · June 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Okay, so here's a video of the guild that got first beta and live emperor, less than a week after launch, blobbing together spamming AOE... To make it easy for you, there's a great example of this at 6:00, but its all over the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuI-fl0fCbc

So, now that you've been thoroughly disproven, now that your argument has been shown time and time again to be wrong, just admit it that you're wrong and move on.

ZOS is to blame for the lag, not the players who've been playing it the same way since its launch.

Yep. And how many of these people in the video still play?

That should be an indication of where the game is headed.

That's kind of an irrelevant point. Gankers and 'zerg ballers' alike have left the game, and your counterpoint isn't related to the point I was making about these tactics being as old as the game itself.

Stikato · June 2015

ITT: Some people still think its the players' fault..

Well, silver lining for you guys, at least the game is running out of players.