halfbadger wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

If you turn it off, does that mean you no longer see everybody else's DPS and nobody else sees your DPS? Or does anyone running the new FTC get to see everybody else's DPS no matter what? I think it would be fine if you can choose to make your DPS public, but it is getting kind of creepy if FTC is pulling other people's DPS without their knowledge or permission.

Other people can only see your dps is you have turned the option on.

Ah I can see it now, LFM for SO....MUST HAVE FTC DAMAGE STATS ENABLED! hope it doesn't come to this though it would benefit me....

Was running with this last night, and it seemed like only four of twelve in our raid (including our main tank) were running this. It was nice to not have to worry so much about actually hitting the keybindings to post results, but groups can be as demanding or easygoing as they want to with this. There was nothing stopping a group before from excluding someone if they never post DPS.

Cuyler wrote: »

Wait so this is new to FTC or it's always been there? I'm confused, I never noticed it before.

This was just implemented as of version 0.65

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

What is important to note is that FTC can only show the DPS of other TFC users and only if those others have activated the option themselves.
Thus the issues some of you are pointing out (minimum DPS requirements for pugs) seem pretty avoidable to me since in theory the very same function already existed with people being able to post their dps in group chat, however now the addon simply does so automatically ( to other ftc members and not via chat).

Yeah, problem with that is it will just lead to exclusion if you are not able to post anything at all.

ragespell wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

pmacisback wrote: »

The end of an era for casuals and original builds.. LFM vAnything 11k+ dps

i get 12k dps spamming one button...literally...now eaving necessary...so im not sure why you think original builds wont get through...if your build doesnt pull 11k deeps its not cause its original...its cause its bad...

As a Sorc with around 2k spell damage and 30k magika, I can hardly do 6k dps spamming the only spammable spell I have, force pulse, interleaved with medium attacks :'(

@ragespell , he's probably running wrecking blow, so there is no comparison.

Also, there are a lot of other factors involved, enemy spell resist, for instance. Initial triggering of combat (when you drop the first skill) can have a large effect on your numbers. Burst is usually pretty high, but single target sustain is whole other thing. I'm not entirely certain DPS registers correctly sometimes, as I've had scenarios with 'low numbers' yet stuff is dropping left and right.

If you can get through the content in one piece, don't sweat it.

Offhand, one of the things I can recommend is adding DoTs to your rotation. You'll get added benefit from Force Pulse in the process and your DPS will increase. Short of Overload (which is hardly viable as sustain 100% of the time), there is no magicka based attacks that will hit the 12k+ single button DPS that some of the melee skills can get with relative ease.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Bad idea and I thought this was something that ZOS did not want in the add-ons, now it will just reek of leet players blasting some poor guy who's dps is off by a few points, because oh heck better to belittle them then try to help them it seems. /fail

Could be used as nice tool to help folks improve their dps give them some tips but it won't be in most cases, which is sad.

@kevlarto_ESO , sounds well and good in theory, except it won't show you what to do to increase the numbers, and others are making baseline assumptions, as they cannot see what you are and are not doing as well.

DPS by itself is of limited use as feedback to help you improve DPS. It's like a speedometer on car. It gives you a number, but it's not going to help you get more power out of your engine in the process.

A Templar DPS can stack spell damage and max mag and hit very high numbers basically spamming Dark Flare.

I'm reluctant to get involved in this discussion, but I think it might be useful for me to chime in on a couple points.

1) I am very much interested in collecting feedback regarding this feature (provided it is constructive). I'm not so interested in the "sky is falling" arguments, but I am definitely curious what people think. Thank you @SIN-X for creating this topic.

2) This feature only works if you are using FTC version 0.65+ and have the option "Share Group DPS" enabled. If you have this option disabled you will neither send nor receive this information.

3) The intention is to give serious PvE groups the tools they need to succeed. This won't be the end of pugs, and it won't be the end of casual gameplay. Please don't give in to hyperbole. As someone who occasionally runs pick-up-groups to get my vet daily pledge done I can assure you I don't care what my group members DPS is as long as it isn't causing me to waste my time. I suspect most players will feel the same.

4) To those of you who mentioned any sort of lag or performance issues with new FTC (or other bugs), I'm continuing to prioritize those fixes above anything else, so I hope you check back when I release updates to see if your issues have been resolved.

I was always under the impression that this was restricted through the API intentionally to keep addon makers from displaying other peoples info (in this case DPS) like Stam/Magicka/gear ect. Looks like this restriction was recently lifted and thats why FTC has the option now, but my question is...why allow this now?

I've always hated Damage meters because they don't take into account things like going OOM mid fight OR damn I had to dodge a lot that fight or the healer suck eggs and I had to rez a lot. If you say will you shouldn't run out of a resource mid fight I call BS on that some of the boss fights can last minutes you are going to run out. Also what it considered the minimum time for good DPS be cause I can do 30k single target DPS for 2 seconds easy. 30k DPS on a single target for 5 full minutes or longer is just not possible.

This is a very bad thing and needs blocked immediately.it was bad enough when people are expecting everyone to post dps numbers after each boss fight but now that information is available without permission.

Scree that! Yet one more thing superior about the console version.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I can see the more competitive time trial groups requiring it and rightfully so. Anyone worthy of running with a fast group wouldn't mind them seeing their dps.

Some of the runs I used to go to it was mandatory to post your DPS after every boss anyway. And to get a slot in the first place you had to go to "training runs" and post high numbers to even be considered for an inv to a "main" group. I guess this will just make that easier and eliminate people editing their posts (which is a good thing), but I'm still a little confused how if this was something @ZOS excluded from access within the API previously, why is it now available.

@Atropos did you finally convince them to ease up, and if they listen to you can you get them to let us have access to their target dummies?

MAOofDC wrote: »

I've always hated Damage meters because they don't take into account things like going OOM mid fight OR damn I had to dodge a lot that fight or the healer suck eggs and I had to rez a lot. If you say will you shouldn't run out of a resource mid fight I call BS on that some of the boss fights can last minutes you are going to run out. Also what it considered the minimum time for good DPS be cause I can do 30k single target DPS for 2 seconds easy. 30k DPS on a single target for 5 full minutes or longer is just not possible.

It all becomes relative to the overall group at those points. Spindle gargoyle is normally a good dps test, however if the tank doesn't keep aggro or wanders around the area or the healer decides they want to dps as well then you'll always have lower numbers than those in a good group. Also, a good group will have a healer or dps running weakness to elements and chucking luminous/blazing spears where needed.

General rule is drop your actual dps by about 2-3k in boss fights where you have to move, block or stop combat for any length of time when compared to a dps test.

Burst is always a different beast. Can burst 22k+ myself but then sustain with a good rotation comes to 16k. I like the addition of the comparison style table since it means I can compare my dps to others to gauge whether I need to put any improvements in or whether I happen to be in the top few dps and know that I'm doing a good job.

Having done VDSA with one good dps and one very poor one, I can attest to the benefits of knowing who is pulling their weight and who is being carried so we can help improve that person's dps or kick them.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

If you turn it off, does that mean you no longer see everybody else's DPS and nobody else sees your DPS? Or does anyone running the new FTC get to see everybody else's DPS no matter what? I think it would be fine if you can choose to make your DPS public, but it is getting kind of creepy if FTC is pulling other people's DPS without their knowledge or permission.

Other people can only see your dps is you have turned the option on.

Ah I can see it now, LFM for SO....MUST HAVE FTC DAMAGE STATS ENABLED! hope it doesn't come to this though it would benefit me....

I can see the more competitive time trial groups requiring it and rightfully so. Anyone worthy of running with a fast group wouldn't mind them seeing their dps.

I wouldn't expect a competitive group to be advertising in zone in this manner anyhow. My example is specifically relating to pugs or casual groups pugging a few ppl.

You're right, in any competitive group that's worth anything, this is business as usual. It still however only benefits those with and not without.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Looking at the additions, I only see the same link-to-chat options that were always there. Where do you see this?

T3hOwnage69 wrote: »

deleted ftc using AUI now new ftc gave me lots of errors when customizing stuff and even fps drops in pvp to around 1 fps lol

King Bozo wrote: »

I use aui and combat cloud. The ftc caused lag spikes for me in pve. Maybe once it's fixed I will try again.

@T3hOwnage69, @King Bozo , how did you determine FTC was the cause of your frame loss/lag?

After last patch I'm getting some horrible spikes again (I've seen as high as 12+ seconds, in one case) and client server disconnect during fights. Will happily replace with something else if FTC turns out to be the cause.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How does it work? I thought it would be impossible to get information about what other players do.

@lolo_01b16_ESO , there are some addons that can view information about certain aspects of party members, FTC will show active buffs when you hover over another individual. Also, there is an addon that will show what each group member loots, though I do not recall the name. I suspect more information is available than you would like.

I determined it was ftc because it was the only add on I used. I turned it off and had no ptoblems for a whole day. I turned it back on then bam lag spikes in pve. My conclusion is it only happened with ftc on hope that helps.

c0rp wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

What is important to note is that FTC can only show the DPS of other TFC users and only if those others have activated the option themselves.
Thus the issues some of you are pointing out (minimum DPS requirements for pugs) seem pretty avoidable to me since in theory the very same function already existed with people being able to post their dps in group chat, however now the addon simply does so automatically ( to other ftc members and not via chat).

"LF2 DPS DSA, FTC DPS required"

Won't be long before we see this I'm sure.

Daveheart wrote: »

Maybe you should just set the default to off @Atropos ?

I agree that this should be opt-in, rather than opt-out. If I keep the feature I'll be changing the default value to off next version.

I think in some cases, like if I'm grouped with someone and we're working on our DPS numbers or someone is helping me with my rotation, ect ect..... then it's super. Otherwise, I have no desire for anyone to know my DPS. First of all, I'm a bow focused build which is kind of lackluster already. But, I think it's fun, and I don't want to be THE BEST EVER, so I'm cool with it. But I am very aware that my 7.5-10k single target DPS with my bow is not nearly as *** as other builds fighting the same enemy. So, no, I will not be sharing. I never, ever share for this very reason. And I do worry, that if it's an option to be automatic, that groups will want to see it and I'll be the lonely archer hanging out with Redbeard drinking all day with no one to play with.

Also.... players can just be real jerks about it. Even if I do happen to pull some magical high DPS out of the wind by pure accident, I still don't share it. There is something, personally, about shouting about how awesome your DPS is to the world over and over again that grates me. Let's not perpetuate the elitist attitude. I'm here to pew pew a make-believe ghost with my make-believe bow with a bottomless quiver. It's not a competition. For me, anyways.

GRANTED- I've never done any trials or DSA where as another posted did mention, it would be handy for the sole purpose of distributing responsibility based on capability. That I can see. But not to kick players from groups or build PUGS with.

Needless to say, I'll be turning that little feature OFF and keeping my elf stats to myself.

I absolutely love this feature and it's something that those of us who have ran trials since the early days have wanted for so long.

To everyone who is concerned about elitism etc. I actually don't understand why you need to feel ashamed/worried/bad about your DPS if you aren't concerned about doing great DPS (and if you are, well a damage meter is your best friend). If you're worried people will kick you, well.. sorry to say but they would've anyway. I'd say it's more likely you get go stay due to them seeing you actually doing decent DPS with a quirky build, currently they would just kick you as soon as they see what you're doing.

Additionally it will help when people start screaming that "healing sucks" on bosses that are DPS races whe they die. It happened to a guildie of mine just yesterday, some pug was saying that his healing sucked meanwhile pulling 3,5K DPS. Well, good effing bye. The people who scream the loudest about how bad others are, are usually the absolute worst themselves. "Normal" good players won't really care much, at least not the ones I know. It will only be a good tool to use in trials to easily see exactly what a group is capable of, who is performing great and who needs help. That's really all there is to it. We already ask people on all levels to post DPS on every boss, because it's the only mechanic that really will prohibit a group from completing a trial and thus it's the only measure that exists for player "skill". With how ridiculously easy things have become, as long as you can move from red and do good DPS - you are a great player.

All in all, if you don't care about DPS you really have nothing to worry about but this feature will be amazing for the groups who do.