As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I get that the game wasn't meant to be, as you put it, a min/max type of game, but if there's endgame content, then it's necessary to maximize what you can where you can. People really just won't know when to recast stuff at all, just kind of a YOLO rotation where things are HOPEFULLY there and your DPS is HOPEFULLY enough.
I just don't like leaving that stuff up to guesswork... Even if I'm going to primarily play PC, I think that Trials/DSA would be fun to run on console every now and again.
You certainly can run on autopilot with your rotation after you get a feel for what needs to be applied after such a time, but console players really won't have any kind of indicators to go off of to learn it properly. Maybe if I played without a buff/ability timer/tracker I would agree with you on the whole "training without mods" thing, but I just feel that they're insanely important.
Side note: I'm insulted that you think I use them there "Block now" "Purge now" thingie-magiggers. They're just annoying.
There simply is no PvE content in the game at all that requires such addons or counters. And for most of the skills, there are visual indicators in the game, on your group members, enemies etc. that helps you keep track of your buffs/debuffs/dots.
coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
They have a pretty interesting way of actually making a game the way that (you assume) they meant it to be. It wasn't supposed to be min/maxed yet it has a speed based endgame pve leaderboard and pvp. It also contains a system where you make decisions between increasing 15% of your damage outcome by 0.2% or some other 25% of your damage by 0.1%. Yeah really this is the type of decision you have to make at some point. If you have the tools you can even see even more subtle choices in your builds equipment , skill and passive synergies, and CPs. Of course in the stock UI these decisions are very much hidden. There are quite a bit of things that are quite unclear if you only look at the CP descriptions for example. They work in quite mysterious ways that can revealed only with addons and testing.
The game can be as much a math problem as you want to be and much more so than some games I played before.If they didn't intended this it doesn't really matter much now. The game is what it is.
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
My environment is telling me, this is going to a clusterf***
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
Uh do you even ESO? I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean buff/debuffs and actually said "effects". Let me give you some examples:As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
Considering how buffs/debuffs work now, why would you have 10 identical effects on 1 boss?
Same old false choice nonsense. Learning the encounters happens sometime between the first and twentieth time you run that encounter. After that if you want improvement it will all come down to build optimization and organized skill use.For this you need buff trackers damage meters and so on.coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
They have a pretty interesting way of actually making a game the way that (you assume) they meant it to be. It wasn't supposed to be min/maxed yet it has a speed based endgame pve leaderboard and pvp. It also contains a system where you make decisions between increasing 15% of your damage outcome by 0.2% or some other 25% of your damage by 0.1%. Yeah really this is the type of decision you have to make at some point. If you have the tools you can even see even more subtle choices in your builds equipment , skill and passive synergies, and CPs. Of course in the stock UI these decisions are very much hidden. There are quite a bit of things that are quite unclear if you only look at the CP descriptions for example. They work in quite mysterious ways that can revealed only with addons and testing.
The game can be as much a math problem as you want to be and much more so than some games I played before.If they didn't intended this it doesn't really matter much now. The game is what it is.
Just because you can min/max doesn't make it a necessity.
If all you care about is completing end-game PvE and PvP, then knowing the encounters and how to play your character is a much, much bigger issue than how much damage/healing you do. All the rotations in the world aren't going to help you kill the boss if you screw up the mechanics, and if you understand the mechanics then you don't need buff trackers.
If you want to place on the leaderboards, then you may want to think about min/maxing, but before then it is entirely unnecessary.
TL;DR: They didn't develop a buff tracker because for 99.99% of players it is unnecessary.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »This thread entertains me greatly.
First a little background on buff trackers and the API. The most popular buff trackers use artificial timers to estimate how long an effect lasts based on the tool tip descriptions. This is not always accurate and in times of lag and other bugs, a buff tracker can report that you have activated a skill (shield for example) where the game never registered the skill so you think you are protected when you are really not.
Why does this happen? To answer this, we have to go back to a unfortunate event that occurred a few days before PC launch.
The API used to report short term buffs so that addons developers could use that information to determine what buffs and debuffs you had on your character. But days before the official launch, a very vocal minority of selfish PvE immersion fetishists that cried about addons (that they never had to use) and how it would ruin their immersion or make things unfair in PvP (that they were never going to step foot in anyway).
ZOS responded to these complaints in knee-jerk fashion and disabled several key parts of the API. This crashed every developers add-on mere days before official launch and make some add-ons people had been enjoying since the beginning of beta completely unusable.
Some people will argue that the API restriction was necessary to prevent abusive addons (being able to see an opponents magicka and stamina bar for example) but you should be able to see buffs and debuffs on your own character. ZOS has mentioned that they are open to re-visiting the API issue on several occasions. While we will probably never see a truly open API, I hope that they at least, at a minimum allow addons to see short term buffs/debuffs and the names of abilities used against you.
The "death recap" is not very helpful when it shows you the 3 attacks that killed you but not the 10 chain stuns that really killed you.
For those of you who like a minimalist GUI, you are free to keep it that way. No one is going to force you to use addons. But for those of us that have no way to see our buffs when there are crazy particle effects everywhere, (e.g. try seeing any other effect on self when you have Sorcerer lightning form on), we need built in functionality to tell us how long an effect lasts.
This is a basic feature and should be standard and of course, able to be disabled for those who dont want it.