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Can We Expect Buff Tracker/Ability Timers On Console?
Paradox
✭✭✭✭
As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
Ebonheart Pact
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnight
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnight
I've quit the game until ZoS stops acting like the community are children, and start actually listening to us.
1
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coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?3 -
Paradox✭✭✭✭I get that the game wasn't meant to be, as you put it, a min/max type of game, but if there's endgame content, then it's necessary to maximize what you can where you can. People really just won't know when to recast stuff at all, just kind of a YOLO rotation where things are HOPEFULLY there and your DPS is HOPEFULLY enough.
I just don't like leaving that stuff up to guesswork... Even if I'm going to primarily play PC, I think that Trials/DSA would be fun to run on console every now and again.Ebonheart Pact
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnightI've quit the game until ZoS stops acting like the community are children, and start actually listening to us.1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I get that the game wasn't meant to be, as you put it, a min/max type of game, but if there's endgame content, then it's necessary to maximize what you can where you can. People really just won't know when to recast stuff at all, just kind of a YOLO rotation where things are HOPEFULLY there and your DPS is HOPEFULLY enough.
I just don't like leaving that stuff up to guesswork... Even if I'm going to primarily play PC, I think that Trials/DSA would be fun to run on console every now and again.
Max your skill, i Play without Bufftracker etc, and still i kick ass in pvp.
I dont Need Mods witch tell me when to doge, i dont Need Mods witch tell me when to execute, i dont Need mods witch tell
me my dots or buffs run out.
Also in PVE, after some Training without Mods you know when you skills runs out, even without counting to 10.
Its like riding a Auto, you feel when to Change the gear.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots6 -
Paradox✭✭✭✭You certainly can run on autopilot with your rotation after you get a feel for what needs to be applied after such a time, but console players really won't have any kind of indicators to go off of to learn it properly. Maybe if I played without a buff/ability timer/tracker I would agree with you on the whole "training without mods" thing, but I just feel that they're insanely important.
Side note: I'm insulted that you think I use them there "Block now" "Purge now" thingie-magiggers. They're just annoying.Ebonheart Pact
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnightI've quit the game until ZoS stops acting like the community are children, and start actually listening to us.0 -
Nerio✭✭✭The indicator is that you failed to kill the encounter you're on. I would prefer to have buff/debuff trackers myself, but the PvE content in this game is balanced well enough to be done without extra help from addons.2 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭You certainly can run on autopilot with your rotation after you get a feel for what needs to be applied after such a time, but console players really won't have any kind of indicators to go off of to learn it properly. Maybe if I played without a buff/ability timer/tracker I would agree with you on the whole "training without mods" thing, but I just feel that they're insanely important.
Side note: I'm insulted that you think I use them there "Block now" "Purge now" thingie-magiggers. They're just annoying.
ist like starting to ride a car with automatic, if you Change this after 1 year to manuall you will have Trouble.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Enaijo✭✭✭There simply is no PvE content in the game at all that requires such addons or counters. And for most of the skills, there are visual indicators in the game, on your group members, enemies etc. that helps you keep track of your buffs/debuffs/dots.3 -
Paradox✭✭✭✭There simply is no PvE content in the game at all that requires such addons or counters. And for most of the skills, there are visual indicators in the game, on your group members, enemies etc. that helps you keep track of your buffs/debuffs/dots.
The issue is that the visual indicators, at least as far as my DK is concerned, are all the same .. or they're very easy to miss with other effects on them. It wouldn't be all that hard to implement, and there's really only reasons that it should be done... with no reasons that come to mind for them not to. It would literally only be a good thing.Ebonheart Pact
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnightI've quit the game until ZoS stops acting like the community are children, and start actually listening to us.0 -
AssaultLemming✭✭✭✭Can't imagine playing this game without add-ons. Ui is awful in its default state. Lol at no buff trackers, I mean mmos from 1990 had these basic features. Total failure of ui design.5
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
They have a pretty interesting way of actually making a game the way that (you assume) they meant it to be. It wasn't supposed to be min/maxed yet it has a speed based endgame pve leaderboard and pvp. It also contains a system where you make decisions between increasing 15% of your damage outcome by 0.2% or some other 25% of your damage by 0.1%. Yeah really this is the type of decision you have to make at some point. If you have the tools you can even see even more subtle choices in your builds equipment , skill and passive synergies, and CPs. Of course in the stock UI these decisions are very much hidden. There are quite a bit of things that are quite unclear if you only look at the CP descriptions for example. They work in quite mysterious ways that can revealed only with addons and testing.
The game can be as much a math problem as you want to be and much more so than some games I played before.If they didn't intended this it doesn't really matter much now. The game is what it is.
Edited by PBpsy on June 9, 2015 9:08AMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
vichoi✭✭✭Really need a buff tracker!
for example sorc's thundering form, this skill will cover all other visible effect, and you can't tell if other buffs gone.
And some buff like defensive stance have almost no visible effect at all.2 -
Armethius✭✭✭So happy about console release, and get rid of all uneven playing field with modders and cheats.4 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
They have a pretty interesting way of actually making a game the way that (you assume) they meant it to be. It wasn't supposed to be min/maxed yet it has a speed based endgame pve leaderboard and pvp. It also contains a system where you make decisions between increasing 15% of your damage outcome by 0.2% or some other 25% of your damage by 0.1%. Yeah really this is the type of decision you have to make at some point. If you have the tools you can even see even more subtle choices in your builds equipment , skill and passive synergies, and CPs. Of course in the stock UI these decisions are very much hidden. There are quite a bit of things that are quite unclear if you only look at the CP descriptions for example. They work in quite mysterious ways that can revealed only with addons and testing.
The game can be as much a math problem as you want to be and much more so than some games I played before.If they didn't intended this it doesn't really matter much now. The game is what it is.
Just because you can min/max doesn't make it a necessity.
If all you care about is completing end-game PvE and PvP, then knowing the encounters and how to play your character is a much, much bigger issue than how much damage/healing you do. All the rotations in the world aren't going to help you kill the boss if you screw up the mechanics, and if you understand the mechanics then you don't need buff trackers.
If you want to place on the leaderboards, then you may want to think about min/maxing, but before then it is entirely unnecessary.
TL;DR: They didn't develop a buff tracker because for 99.99% of players it is unnecessary.Edited by MCMancub on June 9, 2015 2:06PM4 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭While not really unreasonable, ZOS tends to try and stick to their original goal on relying more on visual cues rather than typical timers. Their innovative attempt at a replacement for buff/debuff timers and trackers in favor of visual cues is part of why I like the game, but I see your concern.
I would imagine small icon indicators or something in the corner of the screen would be enough to suffice. But I would prefer if combat cues got an overhaul.2 -
Granz✭✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I agree this would be very helpful.
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nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.1 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeAs the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogicEdited by Alcast on June 9, 2015 2:30PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
The thought process the devs have used has lacked much thought. They often do knee jerk reactions to the forums. Even during real beta they failed to listen to their testers.0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
My environment is telling me, this is going to a clusterf***Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
My environment is telling me, this is going to a clusterf***
Welcome to ESO.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
Considering how buffs/debuffs work now, why would you have 10 identical effects on 1 boss?The Moot Councillor0 -
Sotha_Sil✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone already said, good luck !Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is funny if the visual effects devs want us to rely on have been broken and a huge failure since launch. I am surprised someone at the top hasn't been given their walking papers yet.0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Uh do you even ESO? I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean buff/debuffs and actually said "effects". Let me give you some examples:As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
No, because it would hurt the immersion manGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The developers have said it has been their vision that we would get our information from the environment (not UI/add-ons). Of course they need to learn how to program a game properly so the emvironmental effects are useful and reliable for that to be the slightest bit reliable.
Enjoy the game.
And it didnt came to their mind that it could be awful difficult to track 10 identical Effects on 1 Boss. /zoslogic
Considering how buffs/debuffs work now, why would you have 10 identical effects on 1 boss?
12 man group, 8 DKs, all drop eruption.......whos eruption is that? did mine just expire? did yours just expire? Is my eruption even in that blob of swirling crap anymore?!
Take same example apply to sorcs and liquid lighting....whos LL is that? did mine just expire? did yours just expire? Is my LL even in that blob of swirling crap anymore?!
Edited by Cuyler on June 9, 2015 3:26PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]2 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Same old false choice nonsense. Learning the encounters happens sometime between the first and twentieth time you run that encounter. After that if you want improvement it will all come down to build optimization and organized skill use.For this you need buff trackers damage meters and so on.coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »As the title asks, should we get our hopes up for buff trackers on console? They're pretty important for some builds, like DK Firemages and stuff. It would be an amazing addition to both PC and console.
PC has addons to compensate for the lack of integrated timers, but console is a different story. We can't rely on visual cues for all of our abilities, and watching the boss, avoiding red, adhering to mechanics, and having to count out my DoT timers is a bit much.
I really don't think the game was ever meant to be min/maxed like other games which is why it isn't included. ZOS can be pretty stubborn about stuff like that, not that it is a bad thing.
I doubt you will ever see that for console. But I definitely could be wrong. Maybe Soon(tm)?
They have a pretty interesting way of actually making a game the way that (you assume) they meant it to be. It wasn't supposed to be min/maxed yet it has a speed based endgame pve leaderboard and pvp. It also contains a system where you make decisions between increasing 15% of your damage outcome by 0.2% or some other 25% of your damage by 0.1%. Yeah really this is the type of decision you have to make at some point. If you have the tools you can even see even more subtle choices in your builds equipment , skill and passive synergies, and CPs. Of course in the stock UI these decisions are very much hidden. There are quite a bit of things that are quite unclear if you only look at the CP descriptions for example. They work in quite mysterious ways that can revealed only with addons and testing.
The game can be as much a math problem as you want to be and much more so than some games I played before.If they didn't intended this it doesn't really matter much now. The game is what it is.
Just because you can min/max doesn't make it a necessity.
If all you care about is completing end-game PvE and PvP, then knowing the encounters and how to play your character is a much, much bigger issue than how much damage/healing you do. All the rotations in the world aren't going to help you kill the boss if you screw up the mechanics, and if you understand the mechanics then you don't need buff trackers.
If you want to place on the leaderboards, then you may want to think about min/maxing, but before then it is entirely unnecessary.
TL;DR: They didn't develop a buff tracker because for 99.99% of players it is unnecessary.
Where did you get that 99.99%. The only data we have is PC players and let me tell you that addon users with those features are not one in a thousand.
ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭None of the trial or dsa fights have mechanics that really require a debuff tracker. It's an unfortunate consequence of a limited UI that the fights have to be developed to be simple straight forward fights.1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread entertains me greatly.
First a little background on buff trackers and the API. The most popular buff trackers use artificial timers to estimate how long an effect lasts based on the tool tip descriptions. This is not always accurate and in times of lag and other bugs, a buff tracker can report that you have activated a skill (shield for example) where the game never registered the skill so you think you are protected when you are really not.
Why does this happen? To answer this, we have to go back to a unfortunate event that occurred a few days before PC launch.
The API used to report short term buffs so that addons developers could use that information to determine what buffs and debuffs you had on your character. But days before the official launch, a very vocal minority of selfish PvE immersion fetishists cried and screamed about "evil addons" (that they never had to use) and how it would ruin their immersion or make things unfair in PvP (that they were never going to step foot in anyway). They created a artificial fear narrative of everyone having to have their screen look like a 1990s Geocities website in order to play the game effectively.
ZOS responded to these baseless complaints in knee-jerk fashion and disabled several key parts of the API. This crashed every developers add-on mere days before official launch and make some add-ons people had been enjoying since the beginning of beta completely unusable.
Some people will argue that the API restriction was necessary to prevent abusive addons (being able to see an opponents magicka and stamina bar for example) but you should be able to see buffs and debuffs on your own character. ZOS has mentioned that they are open to re-visiting the API issue on several occasions. While we will probably never see a truly open API, I hope that they at least, at a minimum allow addons to see short term buffs/debuffs and the names of abilities used against you.
The "death recap" is not very helpful when it shows you the 3 attacks that killed you but not the 10 chain stuns that really killed you.
For those of you who like a minimalist GUI, you are free to keep it that way. No one is going to force you to use addons. But for those of us that have no way to see our buffs when there are crazy particle effects everywhere, (e.g. try seeing any other effect on self when you have Sorcerer lightning form on), we need built in functionality to tell us how long an effect lasts.
This is a basic feature and should be standard and of course, able to be disabled for those who dont want it.
TL;DR: Console and PC needs built in buff/debuff tracking. It's a standard feature in modern MMOs. Turn it off if you don't want it. End of story.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on June 10, 2015 8:20PM3 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »This thread entertains me greatly.
First a little background on buff trackers and the API. The most popular buff trackers use artificial timers to estimate how long an effect lasts based on the tool tip descriptions. This is not always accurate and in times of lag and other bugs, a buff tracker can report that you have activated a skill (shield for example) where the game never registered the skill so you think you are protected when you are really not.
Why does this happen? To answer this, we have to go back to a unfortunate event that occurred a few days before PC launch.
The API used to report short term buffs so that addons developers could use that information to determine what buffs and debuffs you had on your character. But days before the official launch, a very vocal minority of selfish PvE immersion fetishists that cried about addons (that they never had to use) and how it would ruin their immersion or make things unfair in PvP (that they were never going to step foot in anyway).
ZOS responded to these complaints in knee-jerk fashion and disabled several key parts of the API. This crashed every developers add-on mere days before official launch and make some add-ons people had been enjoying since the beginning of beta completely unusable.
Some people will argue that the API restriction was necessary to prevent abusive addons (being able to see an opponents magicka and stamina bar for example) but you should be able to see buffs and debuffs on your own character. ZOS has mentioned that they are open to re-visiting the API issue on several occasions. While we will probably never see a truly open API, I hope that they at least, at a minimum allow addons to see short term buffs/debuffs and the names of abilities used against you.
The "death recap" is not very helpful when it shows you the 3 attacks that killed you but not the 10 chain stuns that really killed you.
For those of you who like a minimalist GUI, you are free to keep it that way. No one is going to force you to use addons. But for those of us that have no way to see our buffs when there are crazy particle effects everywhere, (e.g. try seeing any other effect on self when you have Sorcerer lightning form on), we need built in functionality to tell us how long an effect lasts.
This is a basic feature and should be standard and of course, able to be disabled for those who dont want it.
Which is why you can spam a skill/buff/debuff and the addon will track it as being 'ACTIVE' even though you never actually cast anything.0
