The REAL way to FIX the ZERGING

Flynch · June 2015

Wanna get rid of zerg balls? Get a chain-link skill like plague. And make it low DoT or a slow, but can't be cleansed.

Joy_Division · June 2015

I'd rather players be given abilities to deal with "pain trains."

InvictoNZ · June 2015

The_Drexill wrote: »

Redo CC. The first C stands for crowd.

That's a great idea.

Make every CC leap to any nearby hostile player, adding duration for each leap.

Small group gets 4 additional seconds of CC for the 4th member.
Large group gets 24 additional seconds of CC for the 24th member.

All you have to do is spread out...

Apply something like that to the immunity also.
If 4 guys try to gank 1 guy, he gets 5 seconds immunity x4 people = 20 seconds immunity.

rikimm16_ESO · June 2015

I would recommend disabling inpulse and steel tornado, but maybe a better approach would be to decrease the raid size group in Cyrodiil. Half it to 12 raid members!

Lunamarie · June 2015

rikimm16_ESO wrote: »

I would recommend disabling inpulse and steel tornado, but maybe a better approach would be to decrease the raid size group in Cyrodiil. Half it to 12 raid members!

Smaller groups can wipe much larger groups through a combination of superior group set ups / positioning / builds / positioning. The main problem is in situations like a keep battle when skills not working/ rubber-banding / unworkable siege / doors not working creates additional handicaps which work against smaller groups. This is probably the most frustrating aspect of attempting to defeat a larger group with a smaller one.

If they ever get around to fixing the latency issues plaguing pvp then defeating large groups with smaller ones in keep battles will become commonplace then they are now.

Garion · June 2015

Just bring back 1.5.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2015

how about...

no

Zyle · June 2015

The real way would be reducing AP gains for massive groups.

bosmern_ESO · June 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

Yes, because there's no way the zergs would also set up ground oils.

This idea is super fail, and ironic, considering who it's coming from.

Zergs can use em, but also can people running solo.back when there was ground oils, like 3 people could defend a keep from 24 man groups.

tinythinker · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I did like the oil cata, but the fact you could put 5 pointed at any breach was alittle overkill. Id like to see the initial 70%, once purged it be 15 or 20%

Could Scale it based on number of people hit.

For example, Oil Catapult hits 1 or 2 people, only 15% snare..It hits 10+ stacked..70% snare

Sounds like something worth trying. If it needs tweaked to hit harder or a little less hard that is simple enough.

Flynch wrote: »

Wanna get rid of zerg balls? Get a chain-link skill like plague. And make it low DoT or a slow, but can't be cleansed.

Maybe but doubt it will be put in.

Draxys · June 2015

Garion wrote: »

Just bring back 1.5.

Durham · June 2015

Cut 24man groups to 12... Also change the AP in a way that would discourage zergs...

God_flakes · June 2015

Flynch wrote: »

Wanna get rid of zerg balls? Get a chain-link skill like plague. And make it low DoT or a slow, but can't be cleansed.

Or a similar skill like a frag grenade that only blows apart stacked up players and does massive damage to all of them when they're bunched.

Wreuntzylla · June 2015

Buff Soul Shatter.

Radius increased to 11 meters (i.e., Steel Tornado radius). When >75% of your health is lost due to AoE without receiving heals from others, damage is irresistible and increases 2x.

Perks. (1) You have to die for the damage to be done, but do not have to actually use a skill; (2) still have to have a soul ability on your bar; and (3) the most damage will come from AoE bombing groups of newbs, casuals and soloers.

Makkir · June 2015

CITADALO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Seriously over all the conspiracy threads calling for nonsense.

Heres the fix.

Ground. Oils.

Just my take.

Lol , a zerg leader calling for fix.

@CITADALO

This is all I got after reading the OP

Makkir · June 2015

DR on Purge, problem solved.

Xsorus · June 2015

Need more plague rider

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwuusy3g_Cs

vortexman11 · June 2015

You know what the real fix to zerging was? In 1.5 when a group of 8-12 people could ultimate bomb a group of 24-30 with a well placed negate. That nice little dynamic ultimate gain system made this possible. 1.6 made it nearly impossible or at least harder to wipe a group of more than 24 people unless you yourself outnumber them.

Nerfing purge simply makes small groups suffer
Buffing siege makes small groups suffer
Any ability that multiplies its damage to a point where it will instantly wipe out large groups is insane

When I look at 30 people stacked on a flag all I do is think back to the endless bat swarmers that would of either killed those 30 people or forced them to spread out. A build that gets stronger based on the amount of people around it is necessary whether you all like it or not, it IS the zerg buster. But hey! You guys like this version of the game better!

Oh yeah umm, bring back ground oils, and make them cheaper for EP again

Yolokin_Swagonborn · June 2015

ZOS nerfed ground oils for two reasons.

1. PvE tourists than occasionally pvp'ed complained it broke their immersion. Oil pot in the middle of a field?!?!?! Oh the Humanity!! That just not realistic for a FANTASY game. Now hold on while I pull this two story inflatable ACME trebuchet out of my pocket and set it up.

2. The same tourists were drawn to tower oil farms like moths to the flame. They ignored everyone in ZONE telling them to take down the tower with siege before flipping it. NO WAI GUIZ WE GOTTA TAKES BACK OUR RESOURCE NAO!!! Then they ignored everyone in zone telling them to stop going into said tower one by one.

So they cried on the forums "ZOMG ZOS OILS OP" and got a knee jerk reaction nerf.

As others have said in the thread, if you have your eyes open and your purge key doesn't have an epoxy buildup of Doritos dust and mountain dew under it preventing its use, you rarely will die to oil. However, a small group defending a keep can keep a mindless zerging hoard away by effectively using ground oils. It can be helpful against an organized group as well even with purge as sometimes a tick will go off and put more stress on the healers and barriers.

Bring back ground oil.

Also if ZOS could unnerf negate, that would help. Negate never was ridiculously OP as you could always roll out of it but it was great for pinch points. This was the worst sorc nerf ever, but at least I don't hear and more cries about it.

vortexman11 · June 2015

Now that Im thinking of 1.5 again, I'd just like to mention how funny it is that in the time I PvP-ed in 1.3 - 1.5 TTK was slower than it is now, people had more health, yet somehow under the right circumstances an entire zerg could instantly wipe on a flag no matter how amazing their healers were. None of this **** where emperor dethrones turn into lag fests where no one dies for 15 minutes while 1000 meteors rain from the sky.

And again, bring back ground oils

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · June 2015

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

vortexman11 · June 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

No nukes, no one should instantly be killed by one skill no matter how many are stacked up.

ThePonzzz · June 2015

If Spellcrafting is ever a reality, I think we could do some great stuff with dealing with 20+ crowds.

Mr_Nobody · June 2015

Remove ability to break CC, release more aoe CC with durations up to 1 minute, average being 30-40 seconds, with hard CC up to 10, with ability to reduce them with CPs and such, make purge/cleanse on 5-10 minute cooldown; redo CC immunity, remove ability to cast anything while blocking, instead giving a chance to block melee/physical ranged attacks while wearing shield.

Basically make the CC as it was in DAoC. Woah. Unkillable zerg balls are countered, people wont get stun locked/rooted forever, no permablocking etc ~ Basically the PvP game would be more balanced as the good would shine and the bad would melt.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · June 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

No nukes, no one should instantly be killed by one skill no matter how many are stacked up.

I know it sound extreme but the blop player behavior is what is destroying pvp in this game and it just need to be removed. In DAoC you had massive aoe CC that meant you had to spread out or else your entire force could be defeated by a single well placed spell. It worked and pvp lived on for a decade in that game.

This game need something that put a drastic disadvantage to moving too close together or else the server will never be able to handle battles. A bomb like I described is in the class of what is needed.

I know it is unfair that people who have trained together to do the blop to perfection will see all that work go to waste, but the simple fact is that this kind of player behavior cannot be handled by their server code and thus it has to be removed from the game via drastic measures.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

No nukes, no one should instantly be killed by one skill no matter how many are stacked up.

I know it sound extreme but the blop player behavior is what is destroying pvp in this game and it just need to be removed. In DAoC you had massive aoe CC that meant you had to spread out or else your entire force could be defeated by a single well placed spell. It worked and pvp lived on for a decade in that game.

This game need something that put a drastic disadvantage to moving too close together or else the server will never be able to handle battles. A bomb like I described is in the class of what is needed.

I know it is unfair that people who have trained together to do the blop to perfection will see all that work go to waste, but the simple fact is that this kind of player behavior cannot be handled by their server code and thus it has to be removed from the game via drastic measures.

they tried this with magicka Det... but current blobs can out heal the placed one and the Proxy morph ended up HELPING the blobs..

here is an idea... make the targeted version able to set off other in-range targed versions... if you have one person put the targed on 2 people and the first goes off, the second one does too instantly if the person who is bombed is hit by the first bomb...

with that change 2 people spamming it into a zerg could effectively stack 4 bombs that would go off all at once if the blob members didnt play smart and spread out.

GorraShatan · June 2015

There's a lot of really good ideas here re: chain spells, oil cats and other means to deter zergs, and I hope @ZOS_BrianWheeler and others give this thread a look and consider them.

I think ground oils had a few special things going for them though that are worth keeping in mind.

They applied a ground effect (rather than a conventional area of effect), allowing you to deny an area to your opponents rather than strictly DPSing
They couldn't be used in PVE, so ZOS didn't have to worry about accidentally unbalancing things there.
They had a meaningful cost to spamming them in terms of AP, and vulnerability while setting them.
They were devastatingly effective against zergs, but not game breakingly effective against individual players (you could avoid them).

The flip side is dumping oil on your feet just feels ridiculous in game (and painful IRL I imagine).

Not sure if you could capture ground oil mechanics without the silliness of dumping oil on your feet (or some other more silly thing coming up).

GorraShatan · June 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

No nukes, no one should instantly be killed by one skill no matter how many are stacked up.

I know it sound extreme but the blop player behavior is what is destroying pvp in this game and it just need to be removed. In DAoC you had massive aoe CC that meant you had to spread out or else your entire force could be defeated by a single well placed spell. It worked and pvp lived on for a decade in that game.

This game need something that put a drastic disadvantage to moving too close together or else the server will never be able to handle battles. A bomb like I described is in the class of what is needed.

I know it is unfair that people who have trained together to do the blop to perfection will see all that work go to waste, but the simple fact is that this kind of player behavior cannot be handled by their server code and thus it has to be removed from the game via drastic measures.

they tried this with magicka Det... but current blobs can out heal the placed one and the Proxy morph ended up HELPING the blobs..

here is an idea... make the targeted version able to set off other in-range targed versions... if you have one person put the targed on 2 people and the first goes off, the second one does too instantly if the person who is bombed is hit by the first bomb...

with that change 2 people spamming it into a zerg could effectively stack 4 bombs that would go off all at once if the blob members didnt play smart and spread out.

Magicka det was just poorly designed. The fact that it follows you once its on you also makes it hard to avoid entirety. At least if it was an actual area of effect you could just get out of the area.

Xsorus · June 2015

http://rift.magelo.com/en/ability/1006296471/Mass-Betrayal

I think something like this would work lol

Don't know if anyone ever played Rift, but I wiped so many Zerg Stacks in that game with this ability

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

GorraShatan wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They should just introduce a nuke that did 3k x number of enemy players within a 6 yard radius to everyone within the area effect. It would just be a normal area damage to normal spread out players but a close moving blop group would always be instant killed by it.

People would then learn to spread out and use different tactics and the server would be given a chance to handle them.

Of course they still need to fix those abilities that cause massive lag like meteor.

No nukes, no one should instantly be killed by one skill no matter how many are stacked up.

I know it sound extreme but the blop player behavior is what is destroying pvp in this game and it just need to be removed. In DAoC you had massive aoe CC that meant you had to spread out or else your entire force could be defeated by a single well placed spell. It worked and pvp lived on for a decade in that game.

This game need something that put a drastic disadvantage to moving too close together or else the server will never be able to handle battles. A bomb like I described is in the class of what is needed.

I know it is unfair that people who have trained together to do the blop to perfection will see all that work go to waste, but the simple fact is that this kind of player behavior cannot be handled by their server code and thus it has to be removed from the game via drastic measures.

they tried this with magicka Det... but current blobs can out heal the placed one and the Proxy morph ended up HELPING the blobs..

here is an idea... make the targeted version able to set off other in-range targed versions... if you have one person put the targed on 2 people and the first goes off, the second one does too instantly if the person who is bombed is hit by the first bomb...

with that change 2 people spamming it into a zerg could effectively stack 4 bombs that would go off all at once if the blob members didnt play smart and spread out.

Magicka det was just poorly designed. The fact that it follows you once its on you also makes it hard to avoid entirety. At least if it was an actual area of effect you could just get out of the area.

what does that have to do with anything? its intened to be anti group stack, where the person its cast on has to get out instead of the group getting out of range.... at the very least getting one person out of stack and out of heals to prevent hurting his teammates..

the real problem is the damage from people casting the targeted version is completely neglagable