VR Dungeon loot System needs improvement (BoP untradeable loot is very poor design)

ayriennub17_ESO · May 2014

Just my opinion, but I hate BOP for loot. If it was openly tradeable, not only could people trade between group members, but openly sell items that would be decon or rot. This would allow people who enjoy running dungeons to do so and have an alternate method of making gold, and people who would rather PvP could earn gold in PvP and buy the items without being forced to do pve content. Its not good for dragging out the gear chase, but it would be better than several useless runs with nothing to show for it.

barreradb14_ESO · May 2014

I have to wonder if Zenimax understands just how damaging this unnecessarily grind-y system of gearing is to their game/brand? I understand that Craglorn isn't ready, there isn't much end game PVE beyond the V10 dungeons, and that they want to keep subscribers until Craglorn releases. However, they need to understand that people are going to leave when they run out of enjoyable content regardless of the end game gear grind. The only difference is that, with this system in place, they're likely to do so on a sour note and, subsequently, will be far less willing to re-sub when new content is released.

Given how much effort ZoS has put into earning these customers, it seems utterly foolish to me to put such a frustrating system in place right when your most dedicated players are most likely to unsub....

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

BoP is just wrong for anything outside of 12-man content.

No, VR+ loot should not be tradeable outside of the dungeon group.

ayriennub17_ESO · May 2014

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

No, VR+ loot should not be tradeable outside of the dungeon group.

Why? That takes away from potential market options as well as forcing PvP player to do pve content to keep competitive. Something we already have to do simply to grind out VR. Bind on Equip I can see, but not bop.

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

ayriennub17_ESO wrote: »

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

No, VR+ loot should not be tradeable outside of the dungeon group.

Why? That takes away from potential market options as well as forcing PvP player to do pve content to keep competitive. Something we already have to do simply to grind out VR. Bind on Equip I can see, but not bop.

Aren't PVE players forced to PVP if they want the PVP skill-trees, buffs & gear that is only available from PVP?

It's already been announced that PVP buffs will be usable in Craglorn and the Trials.

Forcing players to play both pvp & pve is by design.

Why would players that don't want to PVE even care about the gear? Furthermore, why would they deserve it?

Edit: besides that, we don't need the best gear in the game trivialized by farming Trials. The gear should be hard to get and mean something when you finally do.

ayriennub17_ESO · May 2014

Aren't PVE players forced to PVP if they want the PVP skill-trees, buffs & gear that is only available from PVP?

This is true. I can't argue with that. That to me somewhat justifies the need to pve to level.

It's already been announced that PVP buffs will be usable in Craglorn and the Trial.

I must have missed that article, wasn't aware of that. I'll have to look that one up and read it.

Forcing players to play both pvp & pve is by design.

My only qrgue meant with this is they said play how you want to. Everything such as skill lines for PvE and PVP should be open at the beginning, with exception to vamp and WW, in which I agree special means should be used to obtain them. Just my opinion.

Why would players that don't want to PVE even care about the gear? Furthermore, why would they deserve it?

If its the best in the game, why wouldn't we care? Now if compareable gear could be obtained from PvP we wouldn't. However its done been stated it's the best in the game, so no amount of PvP will obtain the same stats from gear.

As far as deserving it, I would think that entitlement for such should be due to time spent in game, not on what you do. If a person plays 100 hours on a single character for instance, be it pve or PvP, IMO they should be allowed the same stats. The time is still spent, that is what makes them deserving. Looking at a in game perspective, a person defending their realm from other alliances, is just as valuable as someone defending it from creatures and monster.

Edit: besides that, we don't need the best gear in the game trivialized by farming Trials. The gear should be hard to get and mean something when you finally do.

Completing the trial should mean something, as well as being on the leaderboard for the times. Same as with PvP, taking the keeps owning the map ( if you had to fight to get it in the first place) should mean something. The gear should, at least IMO, should be a tool you use to accomplish these goals, and nothing more.

jerzey_gamer · May 2014

Man... seeing all these complaints is having me in NO rush to reach end-game. Seems as though it's worse than a Korean grindfest. Trying to take my time here with leveling, yet I still have the feeling that I'll end up simply creating an alt by VR1 in an attempt to keep myself interested. I really thought Zenimax would've had more end-game content prepared considering all the hype behind it. And upon realizing the loot allocation is bonkers, I am definitely in no way excited to run a dungeon 100+ for one (if you're lucky) piece of gear.

Come on, ZOS! You have all these apparently great ideas about future content and mechanics, but let's fix theses MAJOR aspects of the game first. You can do it!

Xanxarib16_ESO · May 2014

ayriennub17_ESO wrote: »

Aren't PVE players forced to PVP if they want the PVP skill-trees, buffs & gear that is only available from PVP?

This is true. I can't argue with that. That to me somewhat justifies the need to pve to level.

It's already been announced that PVP buffs will be usable in Craglorn and the Trial.

I must have missed that article, wasn't aware of that. I'll have to look that one up and read it.

Forcing players to play both pvp & pve is by design.

My only qrgue meant with this is they said play how you want to. Everything such as skill lines for PvE and PVP should be open at the beginning, with exception to vamp and WW, in which I agree special means should be used to obtain them. Just my opinion.

Why would players that don't want to PVE even care about the gear? Furthermore, why would they deserve it?

If its the best in the game, why wouldn't we care? Now if compareable gear could be obtained from PvP we wouldn't. However its done been stated it's the best in the game, so no amount of PvP will obtain the same stats from gear.

As far as deserving it, I would think that entitlement for such should be due to time spent in game, not on what you do. If a person plays 100 hours on a single character for instance, be it pve or PvP, IMO they should be allowed the same stats. The time is still spent, that is what makes them deserving. Looking at a in game perspective, a person defending their realm from other alliances, is just as valuable as someone defending it from creatures and monster.

Edit: besides that, we don't need the best gear in the game trivialized by farming Trials. The gear should be hard to get and mean something when you finally do.

Completing the trial should mean something, as well as being on the leaderboard for the times. Same as with PvP, taking the keeps owning the map ( if you had to fight to get it in the first place) should mean something. The gear should, at least IMO, should be a tool you use to accomplish these goals, and nothing more.

yea for its so hard to farm gear in PvP right????? no its not so plz stop your BS! okey? thx!

anything that takes 4 players or 8 or 12 or 20 or 24 or 40 players hours or weeks to complete need to get there rewards for the effect.

PvP players dont get this for all they do is zerg around and want the same rewards for less effect!

this is not an Sandbox PvP game so PvP gear should never been as good as PvE gear from raids...

ayriennub17_ESO · May 2014

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

ayriennub17_ESO wrote: »

yea for its so hard to farm gear in PvP right????? no its not so plz stop your BS! okey? thx!

anything that takes 4 players or 8 or 12 or 20 or 24 or 40 players hours or weeks to complete need to get there rewards for the effect.

PvP players dont get this for all they do is zerg around and want the same rewards for less effect!

this is not an Sandbox PvP game so PvP gear should never been as good as PvE gear from raids...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember ever in any of my posts here saying that it was in any way hard to get gear from PvP. I was talking about getting the "BEST" gear. Perhaps you should make sure you can comprehend what you are reading before you flame/troll someone. Another point is that simply because my opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean its BS, I was simply having a conversation about viewpoints. Perhaps if you would like to comment like an adult on these forums instead of a 10 year old spoiled WOW child, people would take you more seriously, Okey? thx!

I completely agree that anything that takes that much time and coordination to complete should gain things (items / achievements), in PvE as well as PvP. Have you ever been in Cyrodill? There is all the time people stepping up to lead the assaults or defenses. How is that coordination any different that leading a raid group, other than it is potentially harder cause you aren't leading a single guild with a focus on a raid .... it can be like herding cats at times....

For your information not all PvPer's only zerg. I ain't saying that we don't run with zergs from time to time, but when you are fighting a zerg, you need the strength in numbers. I personally like to solo and hunt reinforcements trying to make their way to the zerg. I will also small man when the others in my guild decide they want to come out to PvP. I also enjoy zerg against zerg from time to time, the mass battles are fun and one of the ways this games PvP was intended to be played.

And the thought that PvP gear should not be as good as PvE gear from raids is simply stupid. Why shouldn't gear from one aspect that is enjoyable to certain people, be comparable to gear that is from a different aspect of the game that is enjoyed by others. Saying that PvE gear should always be better is like me saying PvP gear should always be better, it makes no sense. Everyone should be able to earn the same rewards no matter what aspect of the game they chose to enjoy.

I won't argue that is can be difficult to on occasion beat scripted AI that does the same thing every time you fight it, at least until you learn the strats. Then its simple farming. Likewise, yes there is simple zerg/zerg farming in PvP, but there are also times when strat and tactics come into play against a unique, living opponent in a dynamic fight where you never know whats gonna happen next. I see little difference between the two, so I don't see how either should be valued above the other.

Back to the original subject, while I don't think Zeni is gonna change a thing about loot distribution, anything would be better than constant rot / decon imo....

Lanae · May 2014

Whoever designed this should be fired tbh. I have now run 50+ Tier 2 dungeons and I have not seen ANYTHING useful appear in any of these. Sure I occasionally see some epics drop. TANK GEAR. I am a templar healer.

At one point in time I manager to find a piece of Worm gear. I am STILL searching for the rest. I thought maybe certain loot drops from certain losses. But that is a lie. The set staff I did manage to find in Elden Hollow does dropped for a friend of mine in Wayrest Sewers now.

So I guess technically ANY boss can give ANY item. However the chances of getting an item as a tank or a healer is already next to null. And even if it drops the chances of it being what you need are SHEER LUCK. That is not even remotely fun. This is just a nightmare.

Excellent choice to whoever thought this was an awesome idea. I really hope they will solve this in Craglorn because I thought I was actually playing a game where I had a chance better than a random Casino on the Strip. Maybe the DEVS should really start playing the game they develop.

Spankin · May 2014

Ebon , Cult , and Savior sets seem to be party based. It would make sense that they could either be shared or traded within the party.

All bosses should guarantee you a purple. Since most of the veteran players feel unrewarded with the lack of drops.

People like to be rewarded. Maybe send them mail like in cryodiil of a random set piece for completing a veteran dungeon.

If you really wanted players to do more grinding. You can improve the drop rate of set items and make the traits on them randomized. So that people can get the feeling that they have a set that they can use, even if its not perfect. Then for the people who want perfect gear they can just grind it out. Then you can always add a more rare version of the set that can be enchanted and styled the way you want it. (possibly only dropped at the last boss)

sebban · May 2014

I agree totally!

I don't expect to be handed loot from every boss, but the drop rate of armor is really low and you only have a very small chance at getting the armor you actually use.

Our tank has a almost complete set of medium armor, one of our casters has a almost complete set of Heavy armor and I, as a medium armor user, have one piece of light armor and one piece of heavy

The armor should NOT be BOP.

We've run each dungeon at least 30-40 times now, and I'm pretty sure no one will be able to complete their set before 1.1

Also all the jewlery is broken. They have locked enchantments on them and no +stat.

The veteran dungeon loot system is completely broken and needs to be fixed.

Hiddenbunny · May 2014

there are loots drop in dungeons?

ARtChi · May 2014

Hello,

As VR10, I went through all dungeons available in TESO and I enjoyed most of them. Some are quite tough when a little underleveled and I liked the challenge.

But, while the content is really great, I don't understand some developement choices. and loot is a part of it :

- Non vet dungeons :
Some are really nice, but I only did most of them once and a lot of players didn't even do those dungeon at proper level. Why ?
Lvl 1 to 50 is so fast that, sometimes, you just go overleveled. You can't use group research to do dungeon you missed. No reward in the case you finally find a group... At your level, purple weapon loot and drop rate in those dungeon are ok. But does it worth farming ? No because, you can have a better green weapon in 5 level.
So, you do each dungeon once, to get skill points, sometimes over-leveled, and that's it.
Result : Most PvE player says "there is no content" because they did each dungeon once and have no interest in doing them a second time.
What a waste !

Level and reward scaling is definetly needed here !
(Please give us some challenge and incentive on helping people ! Help your game also...)

- VR dungeons :
GREAT ! I got wiped so hard on some of those mobs (including trash), but what a relief when killing last boss ! I enjoyed quite a lot

But again, what is the point of doing them twice ? or more ?
When hitting VR10, one of your high end goal is your stuff optimisation. But wtf with this loot system ?!? After more than 10 runs in the sewer, still not a peace of stuff I could use... (I got twice head of the medium armor set...WTF... BoP... WTF)

Random set loot on bosses, whatever the dungeon, is odd considering some are really hard, while other are pretty easy. Players just farm the easiest one...

Yesterday, I helped my team mates to do fungal grotto (VR1-5)... We were 3 VR10 and a VR6. As they are PvP oriented players, with low experience in dungeons, we spent 3 hours to finish it, aproximately 2K repair, 30 magika potion, 20 soul stones, etc. But we did it !.. at least...
As loots, I personnaly didn't had even one blue... Some where more lucky but as higher level didn't had any interest in their loots... which will be destroyed for temper or so...
Yes we had good time, but will those players do it again ? Except for helping others, highly improbable considering the cost/reward balance.

A tokken system is absolutely necessary !
PvE sets of items (incl. jewelry !!!) on par (or a little above) 6/8 trait craft is also mandatory
Also give achievement points some usefulness... I have 5K achievements, what is the point ? Nobody knows it except me, i don't have any use of them...)

TESO has a great content, but reward system is so poor... Please improve this !

Axer · June 2014

Completed the trial (archives):
Don't think a single person got an item appropriate to their build.

Now it annoys 12 players at once instead of 4. Great.

Also pretty dumb system because:
You get 100% drop ratae, which is basically required since the loot system is so bad.

But that also means, the top very fast guilds who can get tons of completions in a night all had near full Aether sets in a few days. So they burn out on the content stupidly fast.

Really poor system for both dungeons, and the trials.

Doesn't make casuals happy (maybe they dont like DKP, but atm the trials are too hard to pug anyways, so they not only dont get DKP, they get zero raid loot period).

Also the DKP excuse was really dumb. Because the loot system suggested in this thread is the exact one DDO uses, and any guild that EVER tried to use a dkp system iin that game was laughed out by the community, and died off VERY fast. The system suggested creates a friendly, fun, pug-friendly community.

Doesn't make the hardcores happy - They burn out on the content too fast becuase the loots a 100% droprate.

Dosn't make those in between happy - They see there friends getting an item they want, they cannot trade.

Horrible system all around. 0/10.

EliteZ · June 2014

You should only be able to trade items to members of the party that helped kill the mob that dropped the item or was there when a chest was opened. Making items BoE so you can trade them with anybody however is a bad thing as you'll have too many people simply buying all of the best gear instead of actually getting it themselves.

Axer · June 2014

EliteZ wrote: »

You should only be able to trade items to members of the party that helped kill the mob that dropped the item or was there when a chest was opened. Making items BoE so you can trade them with anybody however is a bad thing as you'll have too many people simply buying all of the best gear instead of actually getting it themselves.

Agree, The suggestion in the threads OP isn't about making anything else BoE.

Just allowing trading specifically in instanced content, and only to members who were present upon the boss kill. (EG VR dungeons and trials only)

Axer · June 2014

There is a set in the VR dungeons.
+8% healing.

We have seen a number of the "staff of thorns" drop with it.

The rings?

Never. They are like 1 in million drop. And when one did drop (vr5 in BC) it was for a non healer.

Frustrating to the max.

Kayvee · June 2014

Axer wrote: »

There is a set in the VR dungeons.
+8% healing.

We have seen a number of the "staff of thorns" drop with it.

The rings?

Never. They are like 1 in million drop. And when one did drop (vr5 in BC) it was for a non healer.

Frustrating to the max.

In Wayrest I had the Ebon gloves drop for me (I'm a magicka DPS/Healer) and my friend (NB Tank/Stam DPS) had I think a Worm Cult piece drop for him.

I wanted to cry.

danyels64eb17_ESO · June 2014

Cant believe this myself , this pitiful excuse of a drop system developed by a company that is totally clueless and wants its game to go ftp due to all the unbalance and bugs.. or just plain ignorance towards us,the players/customers .

I have almost all achievs for the veteran dungeons - i dont know how many runs - but i figure around 250+ runs of various V 6-10 and around the same 1-6 . I was looking for the ranged and Dual wield set ; I dont have even 1 piece of the Bow/rings .. have 1 sword .. all this in so many hundreds of runs . ( Meanwhile i got almost a full set of heavy .. a few medium .. 2 light .. and a lot of staffs - all bop - and every time the casters crying while i simply ditched them for deconstruct. . LAME)
My patience ran out hoping for almost 2 months this will be addressed . This gets even more frustrating with Trials.. Some of us pug it out and make it to the end some time , Only to find that A FKIN useless piece for us, drops . And ofcourse not being in a guild that farms those Trials nonstop on 11-13 min, makes it a nightmare .
ZOS, with every month that passes u get one more nail to your P2P coffin - this game deserves ftp at best ATM .

Lefties · June 2014

I agree with axer

Prince_Edward · June 2014

Why are there dev responses to random nonsense and not this?! Dozens and dozens of trial clears. 5/5 Heavy, medium, several (3+) duplicates of nearly everything. Necklaces, weapons, everything but what i want/need. Can I at least trade 5 random garbage trial loot items I dont want for one I do?! That still gives people incentive to run it.

Axer · July 2014

53 comments. 1.4k views.

Zero devs caring.

leandro.800ub17_ESO · July 2014

All bosses could drop an item that you can trade for a set piece
This is seen in other mmos and gives you the chance to redo dungeons

Lord_Wrath · June 2015

Im just here to vent that ive been doing pledges and dungeons almost every day I can for god knows how many months, and I barely have any good loot to show for it. The drop rate of good items being rare is a good thing but jesus christ how much time do I have to waste before I lose interest in the game?

This is nothing but wasting 2 hours looking for a group, then 'oh all I got was some voidsteel gloves of magicka'.