Tier-cap CP for catch-up.

WebBull · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It has been discussed much already. A new level 10 player goes into PVP and runs into an "immortal" player with full nirnhoned and 300+ CP, and doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Oblivion regardless of skill.

The current "cap" on total CP is 3600, however I propose a "tiered cap" of 360 per "season" which limits the maximum total CP you can gain during a period of time. This would allow new players a chance to catch up to the no-lifers and remove the incentive for those "quantity over quality" types to marathon their way into an embolism-induced early grave.

I propose that for this first "season", lasting until sometime in Q3 2015, that the maximum CP anyone should be allowed to accumulate should be 360. I know some no-lifers have already passed that, but as a general rule.

Once you have reached this point your progress will be halted until the cap is raised.

I think this is a fair way to prevent the game from becoming totally repellant to new players which will only cause ALL of us to suffer when revenue continues to plummet and the game is eventually abandoned to go the way of so many cash-shop cash-outs to compensate.

If you are only level 10, maybe play non vet until you start earning CP. Also not quite sure why you think a level 10 should have any chance against a V14 that has likely been playing for the last year.

theweakminded · June 2015

People care far to mucus about comparison to other players. PvP is not about 1v1. Learn strategy and how to work as a group.

Fruitdog · June 2015

theweakminded wrote: »

People care far to mucus about comparison to other players. PvP is not about 1v1. Learn strategy and how to work as a group.

That's snot a bad point there. All that 1v1 stuff just boogers things up.

Tankqull · June 2015

you have to do it the otherway round.

per day you have one CP with significantly reduced cost, to enable newbies to catch up this number needs to be increased maybe as long as the character is not v14 the number of those CPs is unrestricted so they would end at 130 CP points currently wich is still only 50% of what you would have currently if you grinded cps regualrily without restricting yourself to it.
the problem is this behaviour is only applyable to acc without a vet14 char as it would be easily abusable.

so this catchup mechanik needs to be applied to the acc CPs aslong as they are below 50% of the currently max achieved CP value every player below this threshold will have an unrestricted number of enlighted CPs (untill he hits this 50% barrier - could be adjusted upwards if needed later on)
on top the requisition of beeing a vet char to accumulate CPs needs to be erased.
that way newbies are not per se on a lost position as they can catchup by their own up to a certain point.

RazzPitazz · June 2015

I have to say I commend your creative solution, however it would seem to me that gating how many to be gained would also gate the people catching up making this an occasional temporary fix at best. Keep thinking though, good start.

MaximillianDiE · June 2015

CP power creep will be the death of this pvp in this game in the long run (if lag, nirn and other issues don't kill the pvp population first). I already lost well over half my guild which was an exclusively pvp guild when 1.6 came out with the main reason being the predicted power creep and as people ground out CP and they couldn't be bothered grinding pve mobs to compete in pvp - including most of our vets who played for the first 6+ months and came back to check out the game when it went FTP. Now we're actually starting to see the power creep as a reality it will only get worse as pve carebears who grind CP get progressively not just a little but a lot more powerful than the pvp'rs who don't want to grind pve mobs to compete in pvp.

The rest of the people I play with (including myself) have progressively stopped logging on for other reasons such as nirn, lag and the like. Anyone with half a brain must be able to see the collapse in population on the pvp servers. From my perspective as an Oceanic player its like the bulk of the Oceanics have stopped playing altogether so the servers are like ghost towns now in my time zone. CP gap will be a deterrent to new players sticking around so there will be no regeneration of the player base. That's pretty dire for a game which looks like its reaching its tipping point anyway. Hopefully once console release has happened ZOS will take a look at what's happened to its PC player base and re-evaluate some of its decisions around things like CP.

For me its most likely too late now as I've lost most of the people I play mmos with from ESO now anyway so I'm really just treading water here until the next decent pvp game comes along. CU can't come soon enough.

WRX · June 2015

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

CP power creep will be the death of this pvp in this game in the long run (if lag, nirn and other issues don't kill the pvp population first). I already lost well over half my guild which was an exclusively pvp guild when 1.6 came out with the main reason being the predicted power creep and as people ground out CP and they couldn't be bothered grinding pve mobs to compete in pvp - including most of our vets who played for the first 6+ months and came back to check out the game when it went FTP. Now we're actually starting to see the power creep as a reality it will only get worse as pve carebears who grind CP get progressively not just a little but a lot more powerful than the pvp'rs who don't want to grind pve mobs to compete in pvp.

The rest of the people I play with (including myself) have progressively stopped logging on for other reasons such as nirn, lag and the like. Anyone with half a brain must be able to see the collapse in population on the pvp servers. From my perspective as an Oceanic player its like the bulk of the Oceanics have stopped playing altogether so the servers are like ghost towns now in my time zone. CP gap will be a deterrent to new players sticking around so there will be no regeneration of the player base. That's pretty dire for a game which looks like its reaching its tipping point anyway. Hopefully once console release has happened ZOS will take a look at what's happened to its PC player base and re-evaluate some of its decisions around things like CP.

For me its most likely too late now as I've lost most of the people I play mmos with from ESO now anyway so I'm really just treading water here until the next decent pvp game comes along. CU can't come soon enough.

Yeah, I know if I was looking to check out a new game, I most likely would not chose ESO simply because of the CP element. They need players to at least get to 150-175 with ease. I know how far I am above that, and how far people are above me, so that seems a fair amount.

Its pretty unfortunate that we will not have new players in PvP for the most part.

Phinix1 · June 2015

WebBull wrote: »

If you are only level 10, maybe play non vet until you start earning CP. Also not quite sure why you think a level 10 should have any chance against a V14 that has likely been playing for the last year.

It doesn't work that way. People in non-vet will have 300+ CP at pre-vet levels since you can use the CP you get on your vet characters on your alts starting at level 1. That means non-vet campaign will be the MOST unbalanced, not the least.

Tripwyr · June 2015

A cap means the opposite of what you intend. It means the no-lifers will always reach the cap, and casual players may never reach it. Additionally, what will you do if you enter the game in Q3 2015, when the cap increases to 720? You will be stuck at 360 for the season, while every other player will be capped at 360.

Domander · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

Soris · June 2015

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Minnesinger · June 2015

If their original plan of getting rid of veteran ranks is going ahead that will be a major balancing change. I don´t suppose there will be limitation as how many champion points can be gotten. Take a note, champion points are awarded based on the dedication and time consumed so hardly very productive to pi** off the loyal fan base of the game.

StienDeath · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

It has been discussed much already. A new level 10 player goes into PVP and runs into an "immortal" player with full nirnhoned and 300+ CP, and doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Oblivion regardless of skill.

The current "cap" on total CP is 3600, however I propose a "tiered cap" of 360 per "season" which limits the maximum total CP you can gain during a period of time. This would allow new players a chance to catch up to the no-lifers and remove the incentive for those "quantity over quality" types to marathon their way into an embolism-induced early grave.

I propose that for this first "season", lasting until sometime in Q3 2015, that the maximum CP anyone should be allowed to accumulate should be 360. I know some no-lifers have already passed that, but as a general rule.

Once you have reached this point your progress will be halted until the cap is raised.

I think this is a fair way to prevent the game from becoming totally repellant to new players which will only cause ALL of us to suffer when revenue continues to plummet and the game is eventually abandoned to go the way of so many cash-shop cash-outs to compensate.

Where have you been all my life ....... this is a really neat idea....

Domander · June 2015

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Do you think grinding champion points = win in pvp? I don't. If you spend 6 months grinding points and then go pvp expecting to own everyone, lol, I think you're going to be surprised.

It's constant progression, which is nice, and you don't have to grind any of it.

Ffastyl · June 2015

This system is not the best. If a band-aid is needed, this could be called for. But this is only hinting at the root issue, which had been ranted about during playtesting: 3600 Champion Points grants a +25% to most stats, making players obscenely powerful. A true solution is to devalue the Champion Point, decrease the maximum stat increase so, as originally intended, the difference between a 70 CP player and a 700 CP player is not terribly large nor insurmountable. This would entail decreasing the percentage increase for each CP invested at higher numbers, as this value drops to +0.3% and stays there. Having the increase drop to 0.1% at a value of (for illustration) 50 points invested would decrease the power gap.

On the other hand, we could all be blowing the value of a CP out of proportion. During playtest there were bugs with the Champion System that caused passive buffs to stack with themselves, creating the "Damage Bug."

Soris · June 2015

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Do you think grinding champion points = win in pvp? I don't. If you spend 6 months grinding points and then go pvp expecting to own everyone, lol, I think you're going to be surprised.

It's constant progression, which is nice, and you don't have to grind any of it.

Yawn. If you consider player skill, then yes, but it is simple math. That player will always have better stats than you just because he grinded more. Is this really ok?

Dont be so naive. It is constant progression only for "casuals". Rest will grind all the way.

Ffastyl · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

If you are only level 10, maybe play non vet until you start earning CP. Also not quite sure why you think a level 10 should have any chance against a V14 that has likely been playing for the last year.

It doesn't work that way. People in non-vet will have 300+ CP at pre-vet levels since you can use the CP you get on your vet characters on your alts starting at level 1. That means non-vet campaign will be the MOST unbalanced, not the least.

Restricting access to Champion Points prior to level 50 on all characters is something I would like implemented. The points earned will remain account-wide but cannot be applied prior to reaching level on per character basis. The current system creates an imbalance in non-Vet PvP, dulls the levelling experience, and is not the level of statistical power the game is designed for.

There is much to be learned by struggling with a lower levelled character, especially if that character is a class you have never played. Being given enough power immediately to remove the struggle removes the learning.

Domander · June 2015

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Do you think grinding champion points = win in pvp? I don't. If you spend 6 months grinding points and then go pvp expecting to own everyone, lol, I think you're going to be surprised.

It's constant progression, which is nice, and you don't have to grind any of it.

Yawn. If you consider player skill, then yes, but it is simple math. That player will always have better stats than you just because he grinded more. Is this really ok?

Dont be so naive. It is constant progression only for "casuals". Rest will grind all the way.

Yawn. If someone went and grinded all those points, would it not be ok for them to have better stats?

It is progression whether you grind it or not. 3600 points, do you think someone is going to grind to 3600 points before quitting? I don't, but hey if they get there then more power to em. They may grind some of it, to get ahead of everyone, and.... that's the entire point of them doing it.

Soris · June 2015

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Do you think grinding champion points = win in pvp? I don't. If you spend 6 months grinding points and then go pvp expecting to own everyone, lol, I think you're going to be surprised.

It's constant progression, which is nice, and you don't have to grind any of it.

Yawn. If you consider player skill, then yes, but it is simple math. That player will always have better stats than you just because he grinded more. Is this really ok?

Dont be so naive. It is constant progression only for "casuals". Rest will grind all the way.

Yawn. If someone went and grinded all those points, would it not be ok for them to have better stats?

It is progression whether you grind it or not. 3600 points, do you think someone is going to grind to 3600 points before quitting? I don't, but hey if they get there then more power to em. They may grind some of it, to get ahead of everyone, and.... that's the entire point of them doing it.

So how about PvP progression? What should small scale/solo players do? Do pve or gtfo? I suppose it is. Because it is currently what it(game) force you to get some power.
And well done to the grinder. He earned it in some way. I just can't understand the logic behind "To improve your character for PvP, you need to do PvE or zerg". "If you do not, you will be punished with low CP/level" mentality.

Sypher · June 2015

Keep PvE CP open ended, Limit PvP CP to 360 CP (Have a PvP/PvE allocation that is switched when transitioning from PvP/PvE and vice versa)

That's... assuming you want a competitive pvp atmosphere. If not, then enjoy the pos we will have when a new veteran meets my thousand's of CP decked out vet.

Domander · June 2015

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

So someone spends months and months getting points, and then someone new comes a long and is less powerful, this is by design is it not?

If someone hit the cap, they might just stop playing, so I don't think this is a good idea.

I also don't think there should be a way for players to easily catch up, it should require as much effort put in by everyone.

It only requires grind. Any form of it, say mob grind or AP grind. And that is very attractive way to progress. Yeah. I would gladly enjoy hours of mindless grinding for the next year. Because I have no life and have looots of free time. And I will crush everyone in PvP who actually have a life outside of the game by having plain 25% advantage for every stat and unique passives available for me.
Very enjoying indeed. Because progress right? Baaahh.
/end sarcasm

Do you think grinding champion points = win in pvp? I don't. If you spend 6 months grinding points and then go pvp expecting to own everyone, lol, I think you're going to be surprised.

It's constant progression, which is nice, and you don't have to grind any of it.

Yawn. If you consider player skill, then yes, but it is simple math. That player will always have better stats than you just because he grinded more. Is this really ok?

Dont be so naive. It is constant progression only for "casuals". Rest will grind all the way.

Yawn. If someone went and grinded all those points, would it not be ok for them to have better stats?

It is progression whether you grind it or not. 3600 points, do you think someone is going to grind to 3600 points before quitting? I don't, but hey if they get there then more power to em. They may grind some of it, to get ahead of everyone, and.... that's the entire point of them doing it.

So how about PvP progression? What should small scale/solo players do? Do pve or gtfo? I suppose it is. Because it is currently what it(game) force you to get some power.
And well done to the grinder. He earned it in some way. I just can't understand the logic behind "To improve your character for PvP, you need to do PvE or zerg". "If you do not, you will be punished with low CP/level" mentality.

eh, I'm interested in seeing the new pvp sets next update, I'm wondering if anything will be added that requires a rank or a lot of AP or something.

I don't know about you, but I burn through my enlightenment pretty fast in pvp. The pvp quests are worth more than any other. If you want more than that, then yeah I guess you may need to pve. One perk, cyrodiil mobs are freakin' great xp. I wish the mobs were harder, but it can be fun running into random pvp all over the place at the quest hubs and delves.

Soris · June 2015

I'd love that if they put new pvp sets but that has nothing to do with mob grinding in pve areas.
As for comparison, I get around 2 CP per night in Cyro without zerging. And I can get around 3 to 4 CP per DSA run + item drops.

Jahosefat · June 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Keep PvE CP open ended, Limit PvP CP to 360 CP (Have a PvP/PvE allocation that is switched when transitioning from PvP/PvE and vice versa)

That's... assuming you want a competitive pvp atmosphere. If not, then enjoy the pos we will have when a new veteran meets my thousand's of CP decked out vet.

Good idea!