Ghostbane wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

thing is. Zerg have been an issue throughout history. Look at the Romans and their turtle raid. Made mincemeat of the northern European zerglings. Only the Scottish skirmishers proved too hard so they walled them in.

The difference between them and us ( yes I know that there are other differences ) is that they couldn't purge siege. They had to avoid it.

It made history smoother. Maybe unpurgeable siege would make current times smoother too. I think it's certainly worth a trial on thornblade.

You really are trying to make a pvp point with actual ancient history. It has reached that point ZoS.

Haggis OP.

Haha it's true. If 2000 years of history has used zerg and trains then who are we to complain!

We just need tools to break it up. unpurgeable siege would be an interesting test.

Glurin wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

ill tell you the seige that is truely pointless....

Scattershot Catapults.... the only and i mean only use of these is carpet bombing to try and flush out stealthed enemies.

Well I wouldn't say it's completely useless. It has a huge aoe, making it difficult to get out of and you can hit several enemies with it at once even when they are spread out. True, the damage isn't great, but it's enough that you don't want to just eat it all the time. Also, being a catapult it has a fast reload time and combined with other damage sources can make the difference in getting a kill or not. I guess you could consider it a tenderizer of sorts.

I sometimes take one out just for some variety. Believe it or not I've gotten quite a few kills just pelting people with it without other damage sources. Also kind of funny to watch people get a little panicky trying to run away from it.

But meatbag is simply better...

I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than a scattershot catapult.

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

ill tell you the seige that is truely pointless....

Scattershot Catapults.... the only and i mean only use of these is carpet bombing to try and flush out stealthed enemies.

Well I wouldn't say it's completely useless. It has a huge aoe, making it difficult to get out of and you can hit several enemies with it at once even when they are spread out. True, the damage isn't great, but it's enough that you don't want to just eat it all the time. Also, being a catapult it has a fast reload time and combined with other damage sources can make the difference in getting a kill or not. I guess you could consider it a tenderizer of sorts.

I sometimes take one out just for some variety. Believe it or not I've gotten quite a few kills just pelting people with it without other damage sources. Also kind of funny to watch people get a little panicky trying to run away from it.

But meatbag is simply better...

I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than a scattershot catapult.

mudcrabs do much more dps than a Scattershot catapult.

maybe the scattershot should launch a group of 10 Mudcrabs at your foes!

Scattercrab catapult. Your move ZOS.

Sanct16 wrote: »

This game is all about burst when it comes to killing groups. Meatbags are very useful as it allows the time between different aoe bursts to be a bit bigger. Apart from that some treb is the best siege as it nearly onehits everyone and if shot at a group while fighting is almost a guarantee to get some kills. Fire Ballistas are nice as you can hit enemies more reliably than you can do with a treb.

However making siege dots unpurgeable would make small groups suffer way more than blobs. The siege damage from the dots can be outhealed by a raid easily but against some pugs on a flag it would probably wipe them. So instead of encouraging people to spread out, it would actually make these players join bigger groups do they can survive and don't die to sieges.

I would be fine with changing oil catapults (ONLY!) to be unpurgeable and maybe even break maneuver. This would have not too much impact on small groups but would slow down raids in the area where your sieges will not them. If they can't just run through the breach with barrier and maneuver, a small group pushing the raid with siege support will have a fair chance even if they are just casuals and no elite players. Moreover purge and barriers should be adjusted to either hit less players, decrease the range or at the very least have diminishing returns based on how many players are affected.
I sometimes feel like players suggesting changes like this, although well intended forget that both sides can siege. How is a small group going to defend a keep when there is no position in the keep where you can not be hit by sieges from outside. You can't encourage players to play in smaller groups when the change hurts smaller groups too, and it would actually hurt small groups even more.

However I do believe that changing oil catapults and the support abilities would be a step in the right direction.

First off, Purge is the reason why the only way to kill a blob is with Burst damage, and you are better off with a few ballistas for that than trebs as trebs fire too slowly to easily break a group unless they are being utterly stupid and standing in the same spot..

Small groups have alot less issues with seige than larger ones... with purge being the main reason a large group can still seige through lots of counter seige... small groups that have much less numbers require significantly less healing than larger ones, to the point where BOL is generally enough to counter seige. and the fewer members the easier it is to stay out of seige.

small groups of under 12 generally cannot take a heavily defended keep, and even on the more well defended ones, enemy seige on the outer wall is generally not much of a issue as its very easy for individual members to avoid even getting hit by seige. hell, those small groups generally dont even need purge. a group of 12 can still set up as much seige as a group of 40+ too. its pretty common knowledge that 1 person can equal 2 ballistas or 4 trebs.

trebs hitting defenders on a wall is generally a result of those defenders getting tunnel vision... its extremely easy to out manuver a fire treb and operate a ballista.

The players who do not move out of the way of seige or dont even pay attention to it are already cannon fodder and would be no more so if you could not purge them as i can nearly 100% guarentee that they generally do not purge anyways.

Purge should not be a easy mode button either and as long as it enables massive blobs of 40+ to stack in one place and heal through heavy siege, purge is only making the issue of stacking and grouping up worse. there is no excuse for a group being able to operate a ram while 5+ oils pour on them

Making seige effects unpurgable would be most noticeably effective on the hyperzergs that all pile in at once and in one place, as they are so utterly reliant on Purge to keep alive that seige would go from doing nothing to rapidly burning them down the longer they are active at a keep.

ToRelax wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

This game is all about burst when it comes to killing groups. Meatbags are very useful as it allows the time between different aoe bursts to be a bit bigger. Apart from that some treb is the best siege as it nearly onehits everyone and if shot at a group while fighting is almost a guarantee to get some kills. Fire Ballistas are nice as you can hit enemies more reliably than you can do with a treb.

However making siege dots unpurgeable would make small groups suffer way more than blobs. The siege damage from the dots can be outhealed by a raid easily but against some pugs on a flag it would probably wipe them. So instead of encouraging people to spread out, it would actually make these players join bigger groups do they can survive and don't die to sieges.

I would be fine with changing oil catapults (ONLY!) to be unpurgeable and maybe even break maneuver. This would have not too much impact on small groups but would slow down raids in the area where your sieges will not them. If they can't just run through the breach with barrier and maneuver, a small group pushing the raid with siege support will have a fair chance even if they are just casuals and no elite players. Moreover purge and barriers should be adjusted to either hit less players, decrease the range or at the very least have diminishing returns based on how many players are affected.
I sometimes feel like players suggesting changes like this, although well intended forget that both sides can siege. How is a small group going to defend a keep when there is no position in the keep where you can not be hit by sieges from outside. You can't encourage players to play in smaller groups when the change hurts smaller groups too, and it would actually hurt small groups even more.

However I do believe that changing oil catapults and the support abilities would be a step in the right direction.

First off, Purge is the reason why the only way to kill a blob is with Burst damage, and you are better off with a few ballistas for that than trebs as trebs fire too slowly to easily break a group unless they are being utterly stupid and standing in the same spot..

Small groups have alot less issues with seige than larger ones... with purge being the main reason a large group can still seige through lots of counter seige... small groups that have much less numbers require significantly less healing than larger ones, to the point where BOL is generally enough to counter seige. and the fewer members the easier it is to stay out of seige.

small groups of under 12 generally cannot take a heavily defended keep, and even on the more well defended ones, enemy seige on the outer wall is generally not much of a issue as its very easy for individual members to avoid even getting hit by seige. hell, those small groups generally dont even need purge. a group of 12 can still set up as much seige as a group of 40+ too. its pretty common knowledge that 1 person can equal 2 ballistas or 4 trebs.

trebs hitting defenders on a wall is generally a result of those defenders getting tunnel vision... its extremely easy to out manuver a fire treb and operate a ballista.

The players who do not move out of the way of seige or dont even pay attention to it are already cannon fodder and would be no more so if you could not purge them as i can nearly 100% guarentee that they generally do not purge anyways.

Purge should not be a easy mode button either and as long as it enables massive blobs of 40+ to stack in one place and heal through heavy siege, purge is only making the issue of stacking and grouping up worse. there is no excuse for a group being able to operate a ram while 5+ oils pour on them

Making seige effects unpurgable would be most noticeably effective on the hyperzergs that all pile in at once and in one place, as they are so utterly reliant on Purge to keep alive that seige would go from doing nothing to rapidly burning them down the longer they are active at a keep.

You should look less on how it is now and more on how it would be if siege DoTs were unpurgeable.
Small groups can maneuver better, maybe, but what for if they still die if they get hit by siege once.
Zergballs will simply not rely on purge anymore and add more healers.

meatbags.

if you are taking more than your max health each second and taking heavily reduced healing as well, there is no amount of healing in this game that can save you.

the most obvious zergs are seige magnets already even tho they are utterly ineffective..

BIG PICTURE? MORE SQUISHY ZERG = MORE SMALL GROUPS

Untill the zergs can be reliably killed with something accessable to less organized groups the lag will contiune as those raids get bigger.

Small groups complained out the ass when they changed the siege damage, But everyone learned to adapt.. and the chances of killing one person with a ballista is extremely low atm.

Simply put, Siege needs to be effective against big raids who stack.

making it unpurgeable would do almost nothing to "small groups" who already are spread out and as a result require sigificantly less healing than a large group that took full damage would.

if the effect on the zergs is big enough, then any minor LTP issue on solo and small is a non issue.

just watched a group of reds zerg straight through a total of 9 oils all stacked on the same spot of a wall, they took effectively no damage.

simply because they had purge going off every half second..

this is definitly something that needs to go.