Are there Dragons in ESO?

LameoveR · June 2015

Dragons, fairies and unicorns are all dead and forgotten.
DragonKnights still remains, unfortunately.

Seth_Black · June 2015

Here's your 'dragon'

Happy?

LameoveR · June 2015

And don't forget, that TES dragons are not a "true" dragons. It's a wyverns, because they don't have forefeet.

BuggeX · June 2015

Seth_Black wrote: »

Here's your 'dragon'

Happy?

Well actually Titans are more "Dragon" than the Wyverns in Skyrim

btw: was the reincarnation from Akatosh by Septiom in Oblivion more Dragon or Wyvern? cant remember

LameoveR · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Here's your 'dragon'

Happy?

Well actually Titans are more "Dragon" than the Wyverns in Skyrim

btw: was the reincarnation from Akatosh by Septiom in Oblivion more Dragon or Wyvern? cant remember

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_lvLkFEViA

Wyvern.

BuggeX · June 2015

So all ppls are right saying there are no Dragons on TESO? becaus you know, there never was

Joke aside.

We dont have a wide Timewindows to see some Wyverns.

2E 582 - 2E 896. Until Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel. Everthing Feature would be just a mess in PVP

In this time no Wyverns where recorded or written down in Books (thats wy im saying we dont have Dragons in the time Teso Play). This doesnt meen there arent somewhere some left.

Now it depens if Zos is going in the feature with DLC or if they stay in the timespan from the 3banner war.

Seeing or killing some Dragons right during the 3banner war would be just unlogical (imho) also going more in the Feature would be a lorekiller with the pvp atm.

BBSooner · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

In this time no Wyverns where recorded or written down in Books (thats wy im saying we dont have Dragons in the time Teso Play).

Neither was Molag Bal's planesmeld, yet here we are. Plausibility is what we're discussing here, and the conditions of the lore around Dragons at this point of time shows that a dragon fight would be completely within the lore.

Ghrimn · June 2015

@RinaldoGandolphi

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

they are unkillable by anyone but a Dragonborn.
without the Th'um 500 vestigaes would get owned by one Dragon.
There isn't a world that exists where 12....no 24 vestiges would have a chance against a dragon.
nothing short of a Dragonbirn would have any chance, including 12 or more vestiges.

Even though only the Dragonborn can permanently kill a Dragon, they can still be "killed" by someone without dragon blood.
The Ancient Nords and the Dragonguard "killed" dragons and they weren't Dragonborn. Well, the Ancient Nords did use the Thu'um against Dragons, but the Dragonguard didn't, instead they used the Kiai which is a watered down version of the Thu'um. So, I do believe it would be possible for 12 players to kill a Dragon, however, it would be extremely difficult to do so.
But I do agree with you that there should be no Dragons in ESO.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

You do realize that The Greybeards, just talking, will kill anyone who isn't Dragonbirn turning them to ash like Wulfharth.

Wulfharth wasn't turned to ash.

@BBSooner

BBSooner wrote: »

Neither was Molag Bal's planesmeld, yet here we are. Plausibility is what we're discussing here, and the conditions of the lore around Dragons at this point of time shows that a dragon fight would be completely within the lore.

1 single Dragon would be within the Lore. Any more than that wouldn't.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

they are unkillable by anyone but a Dragonborn.
without the Th'um 500 vestigaes would get owned by one Dragon.
There isn't a world that exists where 12....no 24 vestiges would have a chance against a dragon.
nothing short of a Dragonbirn would have any chance, including 12 or more vestiges.

Even though only the Dragonborn can permanently kill a Dragon, they can still be "killed" by someone without dragon blood.
The Ancient Nords and the Dragonguard "killed" dragons and they weren't Dragonborn. Well, the Ancient Nords did use the Thu'um against Dragons, but the Dragonguard didn't, instead they used the Kiai which is a watered down version of the Thu'um. So, I do believe it would be possible for 12 players to kill a Dragon, however, it would be extremely difficult to do so.
But I do agree with you that there should be no Dragons in ESO.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

You do realize that The Greybeards, just talking, will kill anyone who isn't Dragonbirn turning them to ash like Wulfharth.

Wulfharth wasn't turned to ash.

@BBSooner

BBSooner wrote: »

Neither was Molag Bal's planesmeld, yet here we are. Plausibility is what we're discussing here, and the conditions of the lore around Dragons at this point of time shows that a dragon fight would be completely within the lore.

1 single Dragon would be within the Lore. Any more than that wouldn't.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy

It is the rumbling of the Greybeards that wake him. Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth.

Just the Greybeards speaking were able to blast Wulfharth/Ysmir to Ash, anyone who isn't Dragonborn would be dead, the only reason Wulf survived is because he one of many of the Shezzarines(Shor Avatars and that explains how he is able to cheat death multiple times)

BBSooner · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

@BBSooner

BBSooner wrote: »

Neither was Molag Bal's planesmeld, yet here we are. Plausibility is what we're discussing here, and the conditions of the lore around Dragons at this point of time shows that a dragon fight would be completely within the lore.

1 single Dragon would be within the Lore. Any more than that wouldn't.

I disagree. While I agree that we shouldn't have dragons en masse and that a single dragon lair raid would be fine, nor should we have dragon mounts, nor should they be reoccuring monsters, more than 1 dragon would be plausible since there is no definitive count on their numbers besides 1.) There are unnamed Dragons alive in Tamriel during this era; and 2.) There is enough to facilitate the hunt for Dragons until Tiber's reign.

BBSooner · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Ghrimn wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

they are unkillable by anyone but a Dragonborn.
without the Th'um 500 vestigaes would get owned by one Dragon.
There isn't a world that exists where 12....no 24 vestiges would have a chance against a dragon.
nothing short of a Dragonbirn would have any chance, including 12 or more vestiges.

Even though only the Dragonborn can permanently kill a Dragon, they can still be "killed" by someone without dragon blood.
The Ancient Nords and the Dragonguard "killed" dragons and they weren't Dragonborn. Well, the Ancient Nords did use the Thu'um against Dragons, but the Dragonguard didn't, instead they used the Kiai which is a watered down version of the Thu'um. So, I do believe it would be possible for 12 players to kill a Dragon, however, it would be extremely difficult to do so.
But I do agree with you that there should be no Dragons in ESO.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

You do realize that The Greybeards, just talking, will kill anyone who isn't Dragonbirn turning them to ash like Wulfharth.

Wulfharth wasn't turned to ash.

@BBSooner

BBSooner wrote: »

Neither was Molag Bal's planesmeld, yet here we are. Plausibility is what we're discussing here, and the conditions of the lore around Dragons at this point of time shows that a dragon fight would be completely within the lore.

1 single Dragon would be within the Lore. Any more than that wouldn't.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy

It is the rumbling of the Greybeards that wake him. Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth.

Just the Greybeards speaking were able to blast Wulfharth/Ysmir to Ash, anyone who isn't Dragonborn would be dead, the only reason Wulf survived is because he one of many of the Shezzarines(Shor Avatars and that explains how he is able to cheat death multiple times)

And yet Akaviri have hunted dragons throughout all the eras (not dragonborn), as well as the Dragonguard/Blades hunting dragons during the second and third eras (not dragonborn). I believe you are mixing Tamriel's history with their myths.

UrQuan · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

1 single Dragon would be within the Lore. Any more than that wouldn't.

Actually, they could probably get away with as many as 2 or 3 unique dragons in the game (maybe more if there's eventually an expansion to Akavir, where we actually have no idea how many dragons may still be alive in this era). More than just a couple of them would be lore-breaking, but 2 or 3 wouldn't be. I'd agree that limiting it to just a single dragon would be the best way to handle it if they really want to add a dragon to the game, though. From a lore perspective it would be most believable.

UrQuan · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

No, there should be no dragons in ESO. They not only dont fit the time period, but they are unkillable by anyone but a Dragonborn.

Do you all realize dragons killed entire armies by themselves, without the Th'um 500 vestigaes would get owned by one Dragon.

You do realize that The Greybeards, just talking, will kill anyone who isn't Dragonbirn turning them to ash like Wulfharth.

The Nords revered the Dragonbirn Heros for a reason, the blades search for a dragonborn for a reason. There isn't a world that exists where 12....no 24 vestiges would have a chance against a dragon.

Not all dragons just fly around and breath fire either, Durnevir not only knows the voice, he is a master necromancer too who can call up armies from the Soul Cairn....nothing short of a Dragonbirn would have any chance, including 12 or more vestiges.

Leave dragons alone we got lots of daedric princes and other areas to explore

@RinaldoGandolphi how do you think all of the dragons were hunted down and killed in the first place? I'll give you a hint: dragonborn had nothing to do with it. If it had been dragonborn doing the killing then the souls of all those dragons would have been absorbed instead of remaining dormant, and Alduin wouldn't have been able to bring them all back in the 4th era.

Dragons were routinely hunted down and killed by the Akaviri Dragonguard/Blades. They didn't use thu'ums. They didn't get help from the Greybeards. They used dragon hunting techniques originating in Akavir.

There is absolutely a world where 12 or 24 vestiges would have a chance against a dragon: it's called Nirn.

Zorrashi · June 2015

There may be a few dragons remaining in Tamriel, but most seem to be in hiding or severely weakened from the Dragon War and their subsequent hunting. But only a few.
If they were to be introduced into ESO, they would be more likely to appear as an NPC endgame boss or maybe as a plot device of some sort for an expansion. Things like having them for mounts or having them make commonplace appearances seem highly unlikely given the limited premise that is the current lore.

noobfury · June 2015

burdocklightbringercub18_ESO wrote: »

That would make for an awesome expansion! Get a Dragon Mount! Flying Mounts in the realm (similar to what WOW did for Burning Crusade) and maybe an epic storyling taking you to level 60 which has ties to Skyrim (and you preventing an invasion of Dragons). How Cool would that be? It would also give a good excuse for a Collectors Expansion boxset with a Dragon Statue!

Are you sure you didnt just leak thier well kept secret they were announcing for XMAS?

Yes I could see this happening.

Then we could have a pvp zerg ball of people on flying mounts spamming Ice comet and Radiant destruction from the air or maybe flying around dropping caltrops on enemy players.

SeptimusDova · June 2015

flying mounts is a no go. the lag and subsequent after effect would crash the game. We know of two dragons alive who want noting to do with people. One DurniiBeer. Cant leave the soul cairn yet. And Parthy wont leave his timeshare at the Throat of the world. If they do introduce them. they should just appear out of the air and grab a random players toon , eat it and that toon is reset to level one back on the boat. So VR14 eaten by dragon. reset to level one with a choice back on the boat or back at coldharbour for another escape.

We do not have access to them Im glad of that.Do we really need the competition at stros mkai for the sheep achievement?

Ghrimn · June 2015

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Dragons were routinely hunted down and killed by the Akaviri Dragonguard/Blades. They didn't use thu'ums. They didn't get help from the Greybeards. They used dragon hunting techniques originating in Akavir.

While it might be true that they didn't use the Thu'um, they used the Kiai, which is a watered down version of the Thu'um. Still very powerful nontheless.

@RinaldoGandolphi
The Arcturian Heresy is a lie.

"...it is Almalexia who disturbs his rest, summoning the Underking to fight alongside the Tribunal against Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal, the Akaviri demon." --> Wrong, the Greybeards/Jorunn wake him up to fight along side the Nords and Dunmer not just the Tribunal.
"Hjalti was from the island kingdom of Alcaire, in High Rock..." --> Wrong, Alcaire isn't an island.
The whole thing was written as a means to downgrade Tiber Septim, just because he refused to attack Morrowind.

Is there any piece of lore you regret writing, a piece or fact you wish you could change or revoke its canonity?
The Arcturian Heresy was the worst thing I've ever written. It needs a revisit. - Michael Kirkbride

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

Hey... there are actually dragons you fight in this game...

the lore of ESO states that these daedra things were at one point in fact Dragons, taken by Molag bal and changed to suit his "visual tastes and preferances"

there is a nice little book explaining this before fighting the ash titan in Veteran City of Ash.

UrQuan · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Dragons were routinely hunted down and killed by the Akaviri Dragonguard/Blades. They didn't use thu'ums. They didn't get help from the Greybeards. They used dragon hunting techniques originating in Akavir.

While it might be true that they didn't use the Thu'um, they used the Kiai, which is a watered down version of the Thu'um. Still very powerful nontheless.

Well, we actually don't know enough about the Kiai to be able to say that. I believe there's only one reference to it in the lore (unless there are others that I don't know about), and it only says that it's a shout that Akaviri swordsmen use for power. It doesn't say anything about what kind of power, or how effective it is - I've always thought of it as the same as the shouts used by practitioners of various martial arts in the real world as a means of focusing on an attack.

Having said that, the Akaviri definitely used magic to fight dragons, whether the root of that was the Kiai or not. That tradition of dragon-fighting magic is directly where the Dragonknight abilities come from.

Whendim_ESO · June 2015

As the Founder of the Tamriel Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dragons, I implore all of you to stop even speculating. All this does is stir up anti-dragon sentiment and before you know it, people are out scouring the countryside, pitchforks and torches in hand, looking to make the headlines.

Ghrimn · June 2015

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Well, we actually don't know enough about the Kiai to be able to say that.
That tradition of dragon-fighting magic is directly where the Dragonknight abilities come from.

This is all we know: "The power of a Nord can be articulated into a shout, like the kiai of an Akaviri swordsman."
So, most likely it's a type of Tonal Magic just like the Thu'um. And since it was said that the Akaviri Martial Art was inspired by Dragons we can assume the Kiai somehow resembles the Thu'um.

Ugh, don't even get me started on DragonKnights...

UrQuan · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

Ugh, don't even get me started on DragonKnights...

Why? They're the only thing that gives us any solid idea of what the Akaviri techniques were that the Akaviri Dragonguard and the Blades used to hunt dragons.

BBSooner · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Well, we actually don't know enough about the Kiai to be able to say that.
That tradition of dragon-fighting magic is directly where the Dragonknight abilities come from.

Ugh, don't even get me started on DragonKnights...

I chalk them up to silly class used purely as an attempt to capitalize on the success of Skyrim and were shoehorned in so ZOS could get the attention of the players who first joined the series at Skyrim and say "Hey look, dragon".

UrQuan · June 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Ghrimn wrote: »

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Well, we actually don't know enough about the Kiai to be able to say that.
That tradition of dragon-fighting magic is directly where the Dragonknight abilities come from.

Ugh, don't even get me started on DragonKnights...

I chalk them up to silly class used purely as an attempt to capitalize on the success of Skyrim and were shoehorned in so ZOS could get the attention of the players who first joined the series at Skyrim and say "Hey look, dragon".

Lorewise we know that they expressly use the martial traditions of the Akaviri Dragonguard. The Akaviri Dragonguard have been established in the lore long before Skyrim, and it makes sense that their traditions would be alive and well in this era, even if they were later largely lost.

BBSooner · June 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Ghrimn wrote: »

@UrQuan

UrQuan wrote: »

Well, we actually don't know enough about the Kiai to be able to say that.
That tradition of dragon-fighting magic is directly where the Dragonknight abilities come from.

Ugh, don't even get me started on DragonKnights...

I chalk them up to silly class used purely as an attempt to capitalize on the success of Skyrim and were shoehorned in so ZOS could get the attention of the players who first joined the series at Skyrim and say "Hey look, dragon".

Lorewise we know that they expressly use the martial traditions of the Akaviri Dragonguard. The Akaviri Dragonguard have been established in the lore long before Skyrim, and it makes sense that their traditions would be alive and well in this era, even if they were later largely lost.

However the Akaviri arts wouldn't have been a tradition of, say, the Altmer of Summerset. Which kind of makes it innappropriate to have Dominion armies bolstered with soldiers trained specifically in Akaviri combat.

There's also the garbage about how the dragonknight "pulls from their innate bloodline" flavor text, which (while I prefer to view it as otherwise) could be construed as a reference to Skyrim.

Not to mention Dragonguard are the predecessors of the Blades, something as elite as "Akaviri martial arts" should have been kept as a world skill we opt in to learn, imo.

Ghrimn · June 2015

@UrQuan

I told you not to... but you had to go and do it anyways... Now nothing can stop The Wrath of Warlord Ghrimn!

we know that they use the martial traditions of the Akaviri Dragonguard.

You're right, DragonKnigths do use an Akaviri Martial Art:

"These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them.".

And there is nothing Lore-Breaking about it, unfortunately, this isn't all there is about DragonKnights.

This is what's Lore-Breaking:

"...he explained, the dragonknight could (...) even breathe fire just like the legendary dragons of yore. And this was, he asserted, because a dragonknight used actual dragon magic..."
"...with abilities said to have been learned from the Dragons themselves..."

Dragons in TES aren't the typical fire breathing beast we see in other fictional universes, they actually use the Thu'um (Real Dragon Magic), a type of magic that enables them to cast spells of immense power. The Thu'um can be used for a wide variety of purposes, anything from sharpening blades to quickly traveling across the land, even controlling animals or killing enemies. So it's quite absurd for DragonKnights to say they can use Real Dragon Magic when they only use Fire spells.

It's also true that they haven't been seen for centuries, so it would make sense for the Thu'um and most of the other powers the Dragons use to be discounted as just myths. However, there's at least two abilities the Dragons have that are acknowledged by almost everyone: Their ability to use Fire & Frost. If DragonKnights claim their abilities come from the Dragons themselves, some even saying they use Real Dragon Magic, how come they only use Fire? It is widely known that Dragons use Frost as well, so how come there aren't any Frost Dragonknights?

This is also Lore-Breaking:

"Draconic Power – tapping into their draconic bloodline, the Dragonknight can fortify their own defenses and lock down enemies, eliminating foes quickly and brutally."

Having Dragon Blood is something unique and extremely rare, it's not something given to every random peasant.

SeptimusDova · June 2015

What do dragonSquires do? Little Smoke puffs and lava tickles?

Shunravi · June 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

What do dragonSquires do? Little Smoke puffs and lava tickles?

Squire! Fetch me my standard!

SeptimusDova · June 2015

Ahh. they are lil fetchers.. gg Shunravi gg.

BuggeX · June 2015

Ghrimn wrote: »

@UrQuan

I told you not to... but you had to go and do it anyways... Now nothing can stop The Wrath of Warlord Ghrimn!

we know that they use the martial traditions of the Akaviri Dragonguard.

You're right, DragonKnigths do use an Akaviri Martial Art:

"These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them.".

And there is nothing Lore-Breaking about it, unfortunately, this isn't all there is about DragonKnights.

This is what's Lore-Breaking:

"...he explained, the dragonknight could (...) even breathe fire just like the legendary dragons of yore. And this was, he asserted, because a dragonknight used actual dragon magic..."
"...with abilities said to have been learned from the Dragons themselves..."

Dragons in TES aren't the typical fire breathing beast we see in other fictional universes, they actually use the Thu'um (Real Dragon Magic), a type of magic that enables them to cast spells of immense power. The Thu'um can be used for a wide variety of purposes, anything from sharpening blades to quickly traveling across the land, even controlling animals or killing enemies. So it's quite absurd for DragonKnights to say they can use Real Dragon Magic when they only use Fire spells.

It's also true that they haven't been seen for centuries, so it would make sense for the Thu'um and most of the other powers the Dragons use to be discounted as just myths. However, there's at least two abilities the Dragons have that are acknowledged by almost everyone: Their ability to use Fire & Frost. If DragonKnights claim their abilities come from the Dragons themselves, some even saying they use Real Dragon Magic, how come they only use Fire? It is widely known that Dragons use Frost as well, so how come there aren't any Frost Dragonknights?

This is also Lore-Breaking:

"Draconic Power – tapping into their draconic bloodline, the Dragonknight can fortify their own defenses and lock down enemies, eliminating foes quickly and brutally."

Having Dragon Blood is something unique and extremely rare, it's not something given to every random peasant.

There are Frost Dragons, and after some legends also shock dragons.

But still, the Martial Art is jsut a Martial art like Boxing or Judo. Wy arent Boxers using the feets to? I meen there are also Judo fighters.

Thats wy Dragonknighs just use Fire and Earth Magic.
They swore to focus on this elements.

Mby at some point there will be a DK like Class witch use Frost or Shock. But then it will not Called Dragonknight