What is YOUR definition of endgame within ESO?

Acrolas · May 2015

Endgame should be when all the relationships you formed in the game start to matter.

Where Captain Kaleen invites you on a naval mission in the Sea of Ghosts.
Lady Laurent asks you to accompany her to a new dig site on Cathnoquey.
Lyris gets bored one day and asks you to travel up the coastline of Morrowind and see what trouble you both can get into.

Things that offer up pieces of new zones while fleshing out characters and making them people you enjoy hanging out in the game with, alone or with friends.

I think the lack of meaningful relationships is one reason why people are just rushing through quests. By the time you're VR14, every single relationship you've ever made will have been for naught, by design or by choice. Even with hundreds of thousands of other people running out, it just makes the world feel... emptier.

reften · May 2015

Great PvP

Lord Xanhorn · May 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Endgame should be when all the relationships you formed in the game start to matter.

Where Captain Kaleen invites you on a naval mission in the Sea of Ghosts.
Lady Laurent asks you to accompany her to a new dig site on Cathnoquey.
Lyris gets bored one day and asks you to travel up the coastline of Morrowind and see what trouble you both can get into.

Things that offer up pieces of new zones while fleshing out characters and making them people you enjoy hanging out in the game with, alone or with friends.

I think the lack of meaningful relationships is one reason why people are just rushing through quests. By the time you're VR14, every single relationship you've ever made will have been for naught, by design or by choice. Even with hundreds of thousands of other people running out, it just makes the world feel... emptier.

While that sounds good, I'd much rather have those relationships with my real person guildmates. The idea is that we have to have meaningful naval missions, dig sites, and coastlines with real reasons to accomplish those tasks.

Mashille · May 2015

Pointless.

Trial Gear: ***

Craglorn: Pointless

PvP: Primary Way to Get good Gear in ESO.

Dungeons: Undaunted rewards, Only a couple out of like ten of the sets are actually any good.

MAKE STUFF MORE MEANINGFUL!

Gidorick · May 2015

@Acrolas. Please make your comments a seperate thread about "meaningful relationships"... I love your ideas!

Morimizo · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Wonderful article, and I thoroughly agree.

"Endgame" should be non-existent in an MMO until it is announced the servers are being closed.

I would prefer no level caps of any kind (whether skill or chr level), and much more frequent content additions. The Champion point system is a step in the right direction, because even the most dedicated will find it difficult to reach 3600 anytime soon (barring Crown Store shenanigans of course).

My favorite solution to making sure any player can enjoy any of the game world at any level is how Phantasy Star Universe tiered the entrance requirements. When new content was introduced, it had ranks. C-rank would be for anyone 5 or above, B for 15 and up, all the way to S3 which might require level 150. The creatures often had variants and different spawn locations as the ranks tiered. All loot was scaled to the difficulty of the dungeon. This way no one was left out, forced to have a max chr in order to enjoy a new portion of the game. And the elite Vets still had brand new shinies to hunt.

stojekarcub18_ESO · May 2015

roll another alt.

Gidorick · May 2015

Morimizo wrote: »

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Wonderful article, and I thoroughly agree.

"Endgame" should be non-existent in an MMO until it is announced the servers are being closed.

I would prefer no level caps of any kind (whether skill or chr level), and much more frequent content additions. The Champion point system is a step in the right direction, because even the most dedicated will find it difficult to reach 3600 anytime soon (barring Crown Store shenanigans of course).

My favorite solution to making sure any player can enjoy any of the game world at any level is how Phantasy Star Universe tiered the entrance requirements. When new content was introduced, it had ranks. C-rank would be for anyone 5 or above, B for 15 and up, all the way to S3 which might require level 150. The creatures often had variants and different spawn locations as the ranks tiered. All loot was scaled to the difficulty of the dungeon. This way no one was left out, forced to have a max chr in order to enjoy a new portion of the game. And the elite Vets still had brand new shinies to hunt.

Hey @Morimizo, check out this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169671/remove-vet-raise-level-cap-concept/p1

PBpsy · May 2015

Trolling the ZOS forums.

Thelon · May 2015

Winning Trader bids.

MissBizz · May 2015

Personally, I take it so slow that I imagine there will always be new content ahead of me. Playing since April 2014 and I'm just now in my VR8 zone (Caldwell gold) and I'm actually VR11. Still haven't went to Craglorn and I'm pretty excited to do so. I have completed SOME veteran dungeons, but not all, and most definitely have not been to Trials/DSA. I also want to PvP one day, but avoid it because I already outlevel the content bad enough haha.

To me, "endgame" would be Veteran Dungeons (pledges - trying over and over to get the perfect 2pc set), Getting to leaderboards for trials/DSA , and PvP.

Ffastyl · May 2015

Endgame to me... Endgame to me...
Well, endgame to me is literally what it states: end of the game.

So, what is the end of a game for me? There a couple points, depending on the game design.
First, when the story ends. Not all games have post-game content, so the story's end is the game's end.
Second, when I lose the will to go on. This is the case in NG+ style games with either increasing difficulty or branching stories, such as Demon's Souls and Mass Effect. The point in which I lose the will to go on is when I know the multitude of story outcomes and branches by heart, or in the case of Demon's Souls, when the difficulty has become too crippling for my playstyle. Or in the specific case of Demon's Souls, when I outleveled all players I can co-op with and had to solo False King Allant, losing 6 levels in the process from his level drain attack and "dying" three times (kept Second Chance active to auto-revive).
Third, when I run out of ideas to act on. This is in more free form games like Terraria and Oblivion. I can keep going, keep exploring, and keep challenging myself until I run out of land, run out of monsters, and run out of excuses to keep repeating conquered content.

I think the third applies most to ESO. My main drive is exploration, which I have done. And completed. I have been to all the lands, seen the sights. So I refocus myself to monster slaying, which I must admit I almost done with as well. Veteran Dragonstar Arena, Sanctum Ophidia and Veteran City of Ash are all that's left to conquer. I do revisit lands to explore nooks and crannies, try to find some spot I missed in my several passes prior. But aside from that, and after I do conquer what's left, it will just be a matter of time until I run out of ways to overhaul my build, reasons to get loot, and patience for the PvP community.
That is my endgame.

SeñorCinco · May 2015

Ithaca

When you set out for distant Ithaca,
fervently wish your journey may be long, —
full of adventures and with much to learn.
Of the Laestrygones and the Cyclopes,
of the angry god Poseidon, have no fear:
these you shall not encounter, if your thought
remains at all times lofty, — if select
emotion touches you in body and spirit.
Not the Laestrygones, not the Cyclopes,
nor yet the fierce Poseidon, shall you meet,
unless you carry them within your soul, —
unless your soul should raise them to confront you.

Fervently wish your journey may be long.
May they be numerous — the summer mornings
when, pleased and joyous, you will be anchoring
in harbours you have never seen before.
Stay at the populous Phoenician marts,
and make provision of good merchandise;
coral and mother of pearl; and ebony
and amber; and voluptuous perfumes
of every kind, in lavish quantity.
Sojourn in many a city of the Nile,
and from the learned learn and learn amain.

At every stage bear Ithaca in mind.
The arrival there is your appointed lot.
But hurry not the voyage in the least:
’twere better if you travelled many years
and reached your island home in your old age,
being rich in riches gathered on the way,
and not expecting more from Ithaca.

Ithaca gave you the delightful voyage:
without her you would never have set out:
and she has nothing else to give you now.

And though you should find her wanting, Ithaca
will not surprise you; for you will arrive
wise and experienced, having long since perceived
the unapparent sense in Ithacas.

Translated by John Cavafy

(Poems by C. P. Cavafy. Translated, from the Greek, by J. C. Cavafy. Ikaros, 2003)

One of the most interesting things about this amazing pastime, we all share a passion for, is the sheer diversity of players and thus, player mindsets. For those like myself, It's about the journey and not the destination.

I am a solo player that removes as much of the UI as possible. I want to respond to the gameworld. There are no enemy or object glows, with the exception of the few that cannot be controlled. There are no Keen Eye skills. Only the targeted enemy health, PC M/H/S when injured and a single dot for a crosshair.

I come here from a heavy RP perspective. Every character is their own entity, governed by a backstory. Every action they make, every skill they choose... armor, what quests to take and even what direction to start walking. My place is more of an invisible follower or guide of sorts. They take me along as they tell me their story. It's like reading a book, watching a movie and playing a game at the same time. Additionally coming across on a heavily interacted platform not unlike a writer, director and/or actor.

I guess if I had to pick a segment of a character's life to define his/her endgame, it would have to be creation to deletion.

newtinmpls · May 2015

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Ithaca

I guess if I had to pick a segment of a character's life to define his/her endgame, it would have to be creation to deletion.

I thought about quoting a line or two from Ithaca, but just couldn't bring myself to separate out any fair bit. I had never read that before [what are they (not) teaching kids in school these days] (went to school during a 'progressive' era and missed most of the classics).

Yes. That's where I want to be in any of my "lives"; gaming, living, whatever.

Well said, good sir.

olemanwinter · May 2015

End game = Portion of game after reaching max level.

In ESO, that's almost nothing. A few trials, grinding for undaunted helms, lag pvp. That's it.

In GW1 for example, it was almost everything. Literally 80% of the game was after you reached max level.

Iselin · May 2015

End game is when players that rushed, rushed, rushed, leave, leave, leave.

Too bad they missed out on the game.

SeptimusDova · May 2015

farming for nirn and eatingPlanting flowers in craglorn swatting the occasional wasp, welwa or nirncrux troll. Talking to random people i don't know. Wishing I could get bit by a Khajiit so I could turn into a Cat. Crafting stuff for my Wolfagator alt. Waiting for my bounty to cool down on another alt.

Sausage · May 2015

Champion sy

Morimizo wrote: »

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Wonderful article, and I thoroughly agree.

"Endgame" should be non-existent in an MMO until it is announced the servers are being closed.

I would prefer no level caps of any kind (whether skill or chr level), and much more frequent content additions. The Champion point system is a step in the right direction, because even the most dedicated will find it difficult to reach 3600 anytime soon (barring Crown Store shenanigans of course).

My favorite solution to making sure any player can enjoy any of the game world at any level is how Phantasy Star Universe tiered the entrance requirements. When new content was introduced, it had ranks. C-rank would be for anyone 5 or above, B for 15 and up, all the way to S3 which might require level 150. The creatures often had variants and different spawn locations as the ranks tiered. All loot was scaled to the difficulty of the dungeon. This way no one was left out, forced to have a max chr in order to enjoy a new portion of the game. And the elite Vets still had brand new shinies to hunt.

Ive seen already lack of motivation from players, so Champion System isnt offering enough. I thought if they start to sell "catch-up - only usable to reach the top CP" CP potions, they could make Champion System more powerful thus making our time more worthy. Atm, Champion System is just decent for ESO, top players doesnt become too powerful and it gives a reason to play, although it does not offer enough motivation it seems. Lastly if Champion System was more powerful it could increase CP-potion sales. But even then, players become too powerful and content/PVP becomes too easy, so that leads to another issues too.

I personally think they need to add some alternative endgame system to increase motivation along Champion System, something like pure cosmetic, gold sink could do it.

Esther · May 2015

I would like to see Arena coming to ESO, but that's just my opinion. :P

SeptimusDova · May 2015

@Esther The original Arena ?? now that would be cool .. Oh and a Mudcrab Merchant..

pecheckler · May 2015

When there is no more single player quests and storyline and I stop playing until new content is released.

Morimizo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Wonderful article, and I thoroughly agree.

"Endgame" should be non-existent in an MMO until it is announced the servers are being closed.

I would prefer no level caps of any kind (whether skill or chr level), and much more frequent content additions. The Champion point system is a step in the right direction, because even the most dedicated will find it difficult to reach 3600 anytime soon (barring Crown Store shenanigans of course).

My favorite solution to making sure any player can enjoy any of the game world at any level is how Phantasy Star Universe tiered the entrance requirements. When new content was introduced, it had ranks. C-rank would be for anyone 5 or above, B for 15 and up, all the way to S3 which might require level 150. The creatures often had variants and different spawn locations as the ranks tiered. All loot was scaled to the difficulty of the dungeon. This way no one was left out, forced to have a max chr in order to enjoy a new portion of the game. And the elite Vets still had brand new shinies to hunt.

Hey @Morimizo, check out this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169671/remove-vet-raise-level-cap-concept/p1

That was a fun read, and a brilliant idea; I definitely would enjoy that as an alternative to the current Vet ranks (though I'm not fundamentally opposed to the slower gaining of character progression, just the segregation of content from community).

DDuke · May 2015

End game in this game is grinding goblins in a small cave as fast and as long as your human body permits.
Welcome to ESO.

MercyKilling · May 2015

I don't know what "end game" is, but I know what it should be:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mission_Architect

Danikat · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I can't seriously imagine anyone would say they've finished Skyrim, simply because they got to the highest possible level, or expect that they can drop the main storyline and everything else they were doing to focus on some new content simply because they got there. I treat MMOs the same way.

I finished Skyrim. I have no idea what the maximum level was, but I ran out of things to do. Mod quality is really iffy and is largely centered around what I consider to be secondary stuff (armor, weapons, followers, etc) rather than primary stuff (quests, areas, things to do, places to go). Those mod designers that do dare to create primary stuff often create stuff that simply crashes my game. So, yeah, I finished Skyrim.

That's exactly what I mean: you determine the end point in Skyrim (and IMO most non-MMO games) by the actual content in the game: the end only happens when you've run out of things to do. Not when you reach max level.

But in MMOs it seems as if most people call whatever point they reach the maximum level the end and then they expect to stop doing everything they had been doing before and start on some completely different form of gameplay.

I don't understand that. If I'm expecting to play a game for thousands of hours across several years I'd want it to be because there is no end, because I can keep playing it, all of it, indefinitely. Not because I reached the end after X hours and was then funnelled into some pre-determined repeatable content.

Elloa · May 2015

I love to take my time to level and explore the game at my (very slow) pace.
As endgame I like to have a large choices of activities that I can do alone or with my guildies. As my character progression have settled down, i would like to experiment content that is more an dmore challenging.

I'm not very interested into gear progression. What i'm interested at is my own progression as player, my capability to play my character and my role better as I'm gaining more experience of the game. I also enjoy group progression and team work. nothing pleases me more in a game when you have worked very hard with your guild to achieve something. The team started clumbsy and badly organised, and you see it improving step by steps.

So basically my dream End Game in ESO would be

Veteran Dungeons
Trials and raids
Adventures zones to enjoy random questing, killing and exploration with a group of players
Dungeons with difficulty level ( like the Fractals concept in GW2, wich is the best concept imho)
New zones for solo players with quest and stories
Solo challenges (solo instance or bosses to overcome) a bit in the line of the Brawling guild or Proving ground in WOW

Stranglehands · May 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Wow... this is really horrifying and depressing.

I absolutely hate the idea of any sort of 'arena' or anything similar. PvP is ... so overwhelmed by upper level characters and highly experienced players that it's just a question of either follow along in a huge mob (not appealing) or try to explore - till I get killed.

I suppose this is when I need to look into RP guilds and events.

I would say that around veteran rank 6 or 7 is when you start to get dangerous in PvP. I won my first proper one-on-one fight at veteran rank 8. So you could do that (along with judiciously hiding and waiting for someone to leave if they look too tough to take on) or you could join a guild or something and go questing in Cyrodiil in a group

BRogueNZ · May 2015

As far as I know it doesn't end until I quit the game. For the night or for the rever.

At the moment for me it's;

harvesting mats
pretending the fight really matters in Cryodil
playing as a hybrid even though its not really working
thinking I must look pretty stupid continuously jumping because the kids keep pressing buttons while I'm trying to save a virtual life.

Elsonso · May 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Ive seen already lack of motivation from players, so Champion System isnt offering enough.

I personally think they need to add some alternative endgame system to increase motivation along Champion System, something like pure cosmetic, gold sink could do it.

The problem with this statement is that the Champion System, despite how it is being used, is not really very well designed as something to grind against to achieve a goal. No one should feel that they need to be grinding CP, but they are because there is nothing else to grind against, and that blame falls entirely on ZOS and really horrible game design.

What ZOS did was create an end-game achievement system without an end-game to actually play. With no end-game to actually play, of course they are playing Champion System.

Having finally read the end-game article that was linked here, I fully agree with it, and that article only serves to further highlight what is wrong with ESO once the main quest ends. ZOS created a system where max level players are dependent upon them delivering something to do, which they don't do, and now there is nothing to do, so players just grind CP.

Danikat wrote: »

I don't understand that. If I'm expecting to play a game for thousands of hours across several years I'd want it to be because there is no end, because I can keep playing it, all of it, indefinitely. Not because I reached the end after X hours and was then funnelled into some pre-determined repeatable content.

I agree with this. This is ZOS picking the wrong frame of reference when they originally designed the game. ESO is an online version of the single player TES games, a main quest with lots of side quests. It is Oblivion with Strangers. To that, they added this Alliance War thing, put a bow on it, and delivered it. That is all fine, if they expect that people will play for a hundred hours or so and then move on to something else, like a typical player in a single player TES game. ESO fills that role quite nicely.

Now they are rolling out promo videos about this vast world with boundless adventure, and that is great, but if they have not changed how they view the game, then it is just marketing hype. ESO, as it exists today, does not fit that description. It is a main quest, with side quests, and then boundless grinding.

To anyone who asks, my answer is to buy ESO for the main quest. Defeat Mannimarco and Molag Ball, and then move on. It is a single-player TES game with strangers and if they treat it that way it is fun and entertaining for a number of hours. ZOS did not create a "home" so they should not expect to hang around after the main quest ends, much the same as Skyrim and Oblivion. If they want to get distracted by Cyrodiil, that is fine, but treat it as a large scale war, not up close and personal PVP. Take and defend forts, but in actual combat they will have to deal with Champion System and the time investment is not worth it.

This is all because ZOS had a very narrow scope for the game and failed to create a compelling game world that could stand outside of the main quest. Instead, they did gimmicks like Cadwell Silver and Gold and made people depend on grinding dungeons and trials after the main quest.

Lenikus · May 2015

First things first:
End-game = things to do after you beat the game.
Beat the game = Max achievement points. (#Edit.: Just have eight Vr14 toons does NOT qualify)

Past that,
Things to do = Daily pledges, item trading, RP, PvP, go outside and have a life for a couple hours.