Anyone voting no is plain selfish. If you vote no you think only aobut yourself WHAT IN THE WORLD WOULD IT DO TO YOU IF THERE WAS DUEL WITH A OPTION IN MENU TO DESACTIVATE THEM ???
I SEE 86 SELFISH PLAYER IN THE POLL
Complete nonsense. A number of very clear reasons have been given by people opposed to the introduction of duelling, including increased PvE lag, diversion of developer resources from more important issues, expansion of PvP into PvE areas, and increased complaints on skill balance issues based solely on PvP considerations but which would impact on PvE, to name a few.
It's not remotely selfish to hold a different opinion on something to you.
@Tandor
"lag in PvE" that is ridiculous, I don't see how adding duelling would create zergs and lag trains, so there is zero reason why this would add any more lag than there is currently.
Some have said "I don't want to be harrassed by people who want to duel me and who call me chicken"
My answer : toggle ability to see or not see the duel invites. And if you can't handle someone who spams whispers to you, you have nothing to do on the internet my friend. Also /ignore will instantly rid you of the problem.
Another fact that people seem to forget, is that we all play on a megaserver. Not everyone is in the same zone. Guess what the server does? It places in the zone your guild mates, friends, and people who take part in the same kind of activity as you. Which is why, if you hate PvP so much and are only member of PvE guilds, there is a good chance you wouldn't even meet duellers..
Balance issues? Just know that on the NA and on the EU servers there are already duelling guild (Legend in Na if i'm not mistaken and Arena in EU). People already duel the heck out of each other, and it's a good thing because it highlights the bugs and imbalances in the game. You won't see more posts than there already are, because the people who want to duel their faction already duel the opposing factions.
If you think PvP imbalances influence PvE too much, it's true on both sides. Guess what major change happened because of PvE tanks whining? Ultimate generation. Ners and buffs are going to happen.
The only semi valid argument you have is the diversion of developer resources from "more important issues", because we all want this game to be fixed before adding new content.
I wasn't raising those points as mine, although I agree with some of them. I was countering the accusation that people who vote against duelling are selfish with no thoughts for anyone but themselves. I made the point that those people have raised a number of perfectly valid reasons for voting against duelling, whether others agree with them or not. They are entitled to hold those views and vote accordingly, and to do so is not remotely selfish any more than to vote for duelling is selfish because it fails to take account of the views of those who oppose it.
The main reason presented by people against duels is not wanting to be harassed everywhere to participate in a duel. Solutions to get around that issue have been repeatedly posted, but it doesn't seem to sway their opinion. Similarly solutions or compromise on a few of the other sticking points such as potential lag in pve have been discussed. And again no one seems to change their stance.
This suggests to me that many of the people voting "no" are just being obstructionist for the sake of it. And that is not cool imo. Look, this is a feature that would greatly aid players who love pvp and if there is some way to implement it without adversely impacting gameplay for you I would encourage you to change your stance and support it, or at least not to obstruct it.
The only solution to harrassment offered that I can recall is to have an auto-decline feature, but Aneima explains in post #85 why that doesn't always provide a sufficient answer.
People are entitled to their point of view regardless of which side of the fence they're on. If you're going to complain that the "no" voters are only thinking of themselves and haven't changed their position to reflect the opposite arguments then please confirm how many "yes" voters are thinking of others and have changed their position?
PvP always causes friction between PvPers and PvEers, and that's why it is best kept in separate PvP areas. Both sets of players hold very strong views on it and are unlikely to change them, but that doesn't mean that only one side is entitled to hold those views and express them when asked a simple question like "Do you support duels". When some PvPers attack not only the argument but also the character of the PvEers (e.g "you're selfish") then it only reinforces the PvEers' view that they want nothing to do with PvP in any form.
There have been several suggestions of how to implement duelling without causing a problem for people that do not like it. One which would completely eliminate the issue is to have duels only occur in certain places- like a training ground in Cyrodiil for example.
As shown in this thread, at least some of the people that want duels have listened to the other side and have suggested compromises that while not exactly what they might have originally wanted, will still allow them to duel while also ensuring it does not impact the game experience of other members of the community.
So now that you have been given a clear example of a way to implement duels without it having to impact your gameplay and also been shown how people on the other side are actually trying to think of ways to be inclusive and cater for other members of the community, what do you think?
My position is clear in post #47 on page 1.
All I've been doing lately is defending those who have given good reasons for holding their views - whether I agree with them or not - against those who accuse them of being selfish or obstructive because they happen to hold a different view to those making the accusations.
Bear in mind also, of course, that people are asked to vote on the proposition outlined in the original post, not in the light of any subsequent discussion.
Anyone voting no is plain selfish. If you vote no you think only aobut yourself WHAT IN THE WORLD WOULD IT DO TO YOU IF THERE WAS DUEL WITH A OPTION IN MENU TO DESACTIVATE THEM ???
I SEE 86 SELFISH PLAYER IN THE POLL
Complete nonsense. A number of very clear reasons have been given by people opposed to the introduction of duelling, including increased PvE lag, diversion of developer resources from more important issues, expansion of PvP into PvE areas, and increased complaints on skill balance issues based solely on PvP considerations but which would impact on PvE, to name a few.
It's not remotely selfish to hold a different opinion on something to you.
@Tandor
"lag in PvE" that is ridiculous, I don't see how adding duelling would create zergs and lag trains, so there is zero reason why this would add any more lag than there is currently.
Some have said "I don't want to be harrassed by people who want to duel me and who call me chicken"
My answer : toggle ability to see or not see the duel invites. And if you can't handle someone who spams whispers to you, you have nothing to do on the internet my friend. Also /ignore will instantly rid you of the problem.
Another fact that people seem to forget, is that we all play on a megaserver. Not everyone is in the same zone. Guess what the server does? It places in the zone your guild mates, friends, and people who take part in the same kind of activity as you. Which is why, if you hate PvP so much and are only member of PvE guilds, there is a good chance you wouldn't even meet duellers..
Balance issues? Just know that on the NA and on the EU servers there are already duelling guild (Legend in Na if i'm not mistaken and Arena in EU). People already duel the heck out of each other, and it's a good thing because it highlights the bugs and imbalances in the game. You won't see more posts than there already are, because the people who want to duel their faction already duel the opposing factions.
If you think PvP imbalances influence PvE too much, it's true on both sides. Guess what major change happened because of PvE tanks whining? Ultimate generation. Ners and buffs are going to happen.
The only semi valid argument you have is the diversion of developer resources from "more important issues", because we all want this game to be fixed before adding new content.
I wasn't raising those points as mine, although I agree with some of them. I was countering the accusation that people who vote against duelling are selfish with no thoughts for anyone but themselves. I made the point that those people have raised a number of perfectly valid reasons for voting against duelling, whether others agree with them or not. They are entitled to hold those views and vote accordingly, and to do so is not remotely selfish any more than to vote for duelling is selfish because it fails to take account of the views of those who oppose it.
The main reason presented by people against duels is not wanting to be harassed everywhere to participate in a duel. Solutions to get around that issue have been repeatedly posted, but it doesn't seem to sway their opinion. Similarly solutions or compromise on a few of the other sticking points such as potential lag in pve have been discussed. And again no one seems to change their stance.
This suggests to me that many of the people voting "no" are just being obstructionist for the sake of it. And that is not cool imo. Look, this is a feature that would greatly aid players who love pvp and if there is some way to implement it without adversely impacting gameplay for you I would encourage you to change your stance and support it, or at least not to obstruct it.
The only solution to harrassment offered that I can recall is to have an auto-decline feature, but Aneima explains in post #85 why that doesn't always provide a sufficient answer.
People are entitled to their point of view regardless of which side of the fence they're on. If you're going to complain that the "no" voters are only thinking of themselves and haven't changed their position to reflect the opposite arguments then please confirm how many "yes" voters are thinking of others and have changed their position?
PvP always causes friction between PvPers and PvEers, and that's why it is best kept in separate PvP areas. Both sets of players hold very strong views on it and are unlikely to change them, but that doesn't mean that only one side is entitled to hold those views and express them when asked a simple question like "Do you support duels". When some PvPers attack not only the argument but also the character of the PvEers (e.g "you're selfish") then it only reinforces the PvEers' view that they want nothing to do with PvP in any form.
There have been several suggestions of how to implement duelling without causing a problem for people that do not like it. One which would completely eliminate the issue is to have duels only occur in certain places- like a training ground in Cyrodiil for example.
As shown in this thread, at least some of the people that want duels have listened to the other side and have suggested compromises that while not exactly what they might have originally wanted, will still allow them to duel while also ensuring it does not impact the game experience of other members of the community.
So now that you have been given a clear example of a way to implement duels without it having to impact your gameplay and also been shown how people on the other side are actually trying to think of ways to be inclusive and cater for other members of the community, what do you think?
My position is clear in post #47 on page 1.
All I've been doing lately is defending those who have given good reasons for holding their views - whether I agree with them or not - against those who accuse them of being selfish or obstructive because they happen to hold a different view to those making the accusations.
Bear in mind also, of course, that people are asked to vote on the proposition outlined in the original post, not in the light of any subsequent discussion.
We have repeatedly posted ways to implement a duelling system that takes into account all of the concerns raised by people in this thread.
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
yeah, see, your point also kind of makes it laughable you are even bringing this up. If they will not or can not bring us something they promised, what in your mind makes you think they would EVER do something they do not want to do, and if they EVER did, do it right?
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
yeah, see, your point also kind of makes it laughable you are even bringing this up. If they will not or can not bring us something they promised, what in your mind makes you think they would EVER do something they do not want to do, and if they EVER did, do it right?
Well, the alternative could be that so many people quit that the game dies.
Which would you rather see happen?
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
yeah, see, your point also kind of makes it laughable you are even bringing this up. If they will not or can not bring us something they promised, what in your mind makes you think they would EVER do something they do not want to do, and if they EVER did, do it right?
Well, the alternative could be that so many people quit that the game dies.
Which would you rather see happen?
I would LIKE to see PVP fixed...........
reality is though, if the game was going to die, it would have NOTHING to do with whether they have a small scale PVP system or Duel System in place.
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
yeah, see, your point also kind of makes it laughable you are even bringing this up. If they will not or can not bring us something they promised, what in your mind makes you think they would EVER do something they do not want to do, and if they EVER did, do it right?
Well, the alternative could be that so many people quit that the game dies.
Which would you rather see happen?
I would LIKE to see PVP fixed...........
reality is though, if the game was going to die, it would have NOTHING to do with whether they have a small scale PVP system or Duel System in place.
Zenimax has already demonstrated that they cannot fix Cyrodiil. How long will you wait for it?
One year?
Three?
I guarantee you that most people are not going to wait that long. Especially when Black Desert, Camelot Unchained, and Star Citizen drop.
But believe what you want. Time will tell all, just as it did with the B2P transition rumors.
Maybe that is a good thing because +999 ping at Nikel just now led quite a number of people to log off, according to zone chat.
All you Cyro fanboys, I get it. I really do. We were promised large-scale PvP and that is not something that people want to give up on so easily. But the fact is that Zenimax's track record does not show them to be capable of fixing the lag problems; if anything they have gotten worse as time goes on.
So while you are worried about people leaving Cyrodiil for small-scale PvP, what you should be worried about is people leaving the GAME because of frustration.
Loss of players -> lost revenue for ZOS -> slower content releases and bug fixes
yeah, see, your point also kind of makes it laughable you are even bringing this up. If they will not or can not bring us something they promised, what in your mind makes you think they would EVER do something they do not want to do, and if they EVER did, do it right?
Well, the alternative could be that so many people quit that the game dies.
Which would you rather see happen?
I would LIKE to see PVP fixed...........
reality is though, if the game was going to die, it would have NOTHING to do with whether they have a small scale PVP system or Duel System in place.
Zenimax has already demonstrated that they cannot fix Cyrodiil. How long will you wait for it?
One year?
Three?
I guarantee you that most people are not going to wait that long. Especially when Black Desert, Camelot Unchained, and Star Citizen drop.
But believe what you want. Time will tell all, just as it did with the B2P transition rumors.
again, what makes you think they will do it right?
They have shown to be unable or unwilling to basically fix ANYTHING in teh game except for grind spots.
yes, because what you say is SOOOOOOOOOOO true (hint: IT is not at all true what you say, ESPECIALLY in regards to an MMO)
BugCollector wrote: »74% votes for. We have the majority of the votes. Now bring us duels and small scale PvP. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom