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Wasn't Champion System Supposed to Replace Veteran Grind?
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MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Even if they do actually still plan to do something about vet ranks, I'm not sure I would assume that the "removal" of vet ranks will be done by just scaling everything down to level 50 (gear, items, etc.). They could just change vet ranks to "levels 50-63" and call them "removed!"...
Also, given that the removal of Vet ranks was something on their list from back before the whole B2P fiasco, I would not be surprised if the whole Vet Rank Removal plan has been dropped entirely.
Unless they can come up with a way to monetize Vet Rank removal on the crown store, I wouldn't expect it to occur anytime soon, if ever.
They just said they are still working on it in the other ZOS live recently
They could literally announce it every 30 seconds in game and people would still make these threads.
OP could have avoided making this thread by googling "Champion System" and reading any one of the numerous articles talking about how the Champion System is one of many phases to remove the Veteran System.
If you have access to some sort of Zenimax master plan for veteran rank removal, I'd definitely like to see that, so please link to it.
Otherwise, I'd say I do a good job following Zenimax, and they've been pretty tight-lipped in this regard, except to say that they are in fact doing away with the vet rank system at some point in time.
Anyways, it is irrelevant to my point that reducing the current XP required to gain a vet rank now, would have absolutely no bearing on changes that would be made in the future, and would in fact, please a lot of the playerbase, considering that even Zenimax has admitted that the veteran grind was a mistake.
How about the first result...
Source
It isn't ZoS directly, but it's a reputable site that I'm sure uses ZoS as their source. Again, stop making these threads and doing a simple google search and you'd see that all of this has been covered for months now.
So you linked to a third-party website post from back in February that describes the current functionality of the Champion System.
I am talking about the future, here, such as the phases you mentioned.
For those with a lack of reading comprehension:Elder Scrolls Online’s plan to roll out the Champion System in update 1.6 introduce a new type of advancement system. This is part two of their phasing out the Veteran Ranks and moving to a new type of account advancement where your progression is tied to your overall account. Keep in mind, this guide is written during testing and will change as content moves forward. I will do my best to update it whenever possible.
That is simply wild speculation on Deltia's part.
He calls it "phase two" because the first part was removing Veteran Points. He has no freaking clue what phase 3 is because there is no set plan with phases.
It's not speculation. It's compilation from what ZoS has already said in multiple other places.1 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.0 -
docstrawb✭✭✭Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
I've looked it up. I never said ZOS didn't state their plan. My whole arguement is that they have a history of letting set in stone plans dwindle away without much of an explanation. Time will tell, and as I said, I hope I am wrong. Time will tell.
1 -
Jando✭✭✭✭This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:
The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.
For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.
Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.
Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!Dear ZoS - Sell us great content at a reasonable price. Stop the Grind!!1 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
Or it could be that both of the sources you linked are in fact wrong, making your efforts lazy, and your information inaccurate.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
To quote Matt Firor, someone more authoritative on this subject that Deltia or some random Wiki:
"We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system"
He calls it phase 3. Try a little googling next time.3 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
I've looked it up. I never said ZOS didn't state their plan. My whole arguement is that they have a history of letting set in stone plans dwindle away without much of an explanation. Time will tell, and as I said, I hope I am wrong. Time will tell.
Your argument was "they never added Spellcrafting so they'll never remove Veteran ranks" despite them having never said they are actively working on Spellcrafting.Edited by MCMancub on May 27, 2015 6:13PM0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
Or it could be that both of the sources you linked are in fact wrong, making your efforts lazy, and your information inaccurate.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
To quote Matt Firor, someone more authoritative on this subject that Deltia or some random Wiki:
"We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system"
He calls it phase 3. Try a little googling next time.
You know what? This took even less time that the last. I google "Matt Firor veteran ranks" and the first link in the "News" section was from less than a month ago. Him stating AGAIN that they're being removed.
Source
JUST GOOGLE SEARCH IT.
EDIT: This thread is a perfect example of what this game community has become. Nothing more than whining and impatience.
EDIT #2: I should have added cynicism.Edited by MCMancub on May 27, 2015 6:19PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
This should be a one-line change in the code somewhere. If this takes more than a few man-hours, then the way they programmed it is insane.
Some are assuming much about his they plan to remove the vet ranks. They have not been clear about that. As of just a couple months ago they were clear they had not decided yet. We could become lvl 64, for example. Somehow they need to work in the skill points and and attribute points earned after lvl 50 if they crush us down in that manner. Much to decide before even thinking of programming.
If they change it to level 63 instead of Vet 14, and don't reduce the XP required to gain levels, then nothing is changed.
If it takes one million to go from 50 to 51, then I don't care what they call it, it is the same.
Reality is we do not know how they will do it. Everything is speculation ATM.1 -
docstrawb✭✭✭
Your argument was "they never added Spellcrafting so they'll never remove Veteran ranks" despite them having never said they are actively working on Spellcrafting.
1.They did say they were actively working on it. They literally showed footage of the progress, and lumped it in with the justice system. Watch the video, plz, for Christ sake.
2.Yes, that is my arguement. They slowly over time just said SC is on the back burner, and then stated in a recent AMA that they don't have any plans to add summons for classes outside of sorc, which basically means they have no plans for SC, despite not ever saying that. It shows how willing they are to be upfront with players. That cannot be argued. I am not saying I am right or wrong. I never even stated "they'll never". I stated my opinion, based on their actions. Argue with that until your blue in the face, I don't really care.0 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
Or it could be that both of the sources you linked are in fact wrong, making your efforts lazy, and your information inaccurate.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
To quote Matt Firor, someone more authoritative on this subject that Deltia or some random Wiki:
"We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system"
He calls it phase 3. Try a little googling next time.
You know what? This took even less time that the last. I google "Matt Firor veteran ranks" and the first link in the "News" section was from less than a month ago. Him stating AGAIN that they're being removed.
Source
JUST GOOGLE SEARCH IT.
EDIT: This thread is a perfect example of what this game community has become. Nothing more than whining and impatience.
You're right, this thread IS a perfect example of what this community has become.
It's full of idiots trying to one-up people with innaccurate information, and derailing threads for no reason.
The position that veteran ranks are going to be removed is the foundation upon which the argument in my OP is built. For you to ignore that and go on this incessant exercise in internet searching is ludicrous, and if I were you I would take this opportunity to calmly retreat from my thread.1 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭
Your argument was "they never added Spellcrafting so they'll never remove Veteran ranks" despite them having never said they are actively working on Spellcrafting.
1.They did say they were actively working on it. They literally showed footage of the progress, and lumped it in with the justice system. Watch the video, plz, for Christ sake.
2.Yes, that is my arguement. They slowly over time just said SC is on the back burner, and then stated in a recent AMA that they don't have any plans to add summons for classes outside of sorc, which basically means they have no plans for SC, despite not ever saying that. It shows how willing they are to be upfront with players. That cannot be argued. I am not saying I am right or wrong. I never even stated "they'll never". I stated my opinion, based on their actions. Argue with that until your blue in the face, I don't really care.
I'm sorry for misspeaking and using the term "ever". There's not been anything this year, in any of the "this is what we're working on" speeches that have mentioned spellcrafting. They even came out and said that of the things they were working on/wanted to work on it was put on the back burner.
In any case, that's a horrible argument for them not removing the veteran system. It's just cynical to mistrust them on their release with anything else because what you wanted got delayed.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
This should be a one-line change in the code somewhere. If this takes more than a few man-hours, then the way they programmed it is insane.
Which would nerf XP gain for everybody going through VR levels because they would be more than 5 levels above the mobs by the time they got to the second Silver zone. Which will make the people who are trying to grind Champion Points mad.
The Moot Councillor1 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
Or it could be that both of the sources you linked are in fact wrong, making your efforts lazy, and your information inaccurate.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
To quote Matt Firor, someone more authoritative on this subject that Deltia or some random Wiki:
"We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system"
He calls it phase 3. Try a little googling next time.
You know what? This took even less time that the last. I google "Matt Firor veteran ranks" and the first link in the "News" section was from less than a month ago. Him stating AGAIN that they're being removed.
Source
JUST GOOGLE SEARCH IT.
EDIT: This thread is a perfect example of what this game community has become. Nothing more than whining and impatience.
You're right, this thread IS a perfect example of what this community has become.
It's full of idiots trying to one-up people with innaccurate information, and derailing threads for no reason.
The position that veteran ranks are going to be removed is the foundation upon which the argument in my OP is built. For you to ignore that and go on this incessant exercise in internet searching is ludicrous, and if I were you I would take this opportunity to calmly retreat from my thread.
The whole point of your thread was based on the fact that you didn't understand that veteran rank removal was a phasal change and is still actively being worked on. I can't remember where I read it, but they've also stated that progression from VR1-VR14 will not be removed simply because the veteran system itself is. We don't know the specifics of this statement yet. Many speculate a conversion to the CP system, others think it will be a vertical progression that's gear/content based similar to how WoW and other MMOs structure their end game.0 -
docstrawb✭✭✭I'm sorry for misspeaking and using the term "ever". There's not been anything this year, in any of the "this is what we're working on" speeches that have mentioned spellcrafting. They even came out and said that of the things they were working on/wanted to work on it was put on the back burner.
In any case, that's a horrible argument for them not removing the veteran system. It's just cynical to mistrust them on their release with anything else because what you wanted got delayed.
It is based in mistrust. I am cynical. Not because what I want got delayed. But because if you listen closely, it is easy to see that they contradicted themselves in regards to the feature I want. They claim backburner, only when provoked. If not, they probably wouldn't have said anything. But the statement about summons is a contradiction. Gina herself said "don't count on it." Not, maybe, not dont count on it soon. She said "don't count on it." That shows me that the "SC is on the backburner, now lets move on" answer is a way to get ppl off of their backs without the grief. So, I don't have a hard time believing they will do the same here, is all I am saying, as a cynical player who feels burned. Like I said several time, I hope I am wrong. I also never said I had an air tight arguement. I am just saying what I feel about their transparency and promises. I no longer trust them.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have a suspicion they arent going anywhere. Think about the sheer overhaul to content/gear they would have to do. My bet is they eventually say "we meant getting rid of vet points, not vet ranks." which they've done.
They need to overhaul the gear anyway, though... all of it is a mess!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is certainly interesting to see what ZOS have said about this but I can't help remembering that they were telling us that B2P/F2P was never going to happen right up to when it did...GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum3 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »Rook_Master wrote: »
Yeah, every source saying 4 phases are simply pulling it out their rear. Instead of being cynical and lazy you could simply search for the original statements from ZoS yourself, of which there are several.
Or it could be that both of the sources you linked are in fact wrong, making your efforts lazy, and your information inaccurate.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/12/04/the-road-ahead---december-4
To quote Matt Firor, someone more authoritative on this subject that Deltia or some random Wiki:
"We’ve done preparation work for the Champion System in updates 4 and 5, and Update 6 will include phase 3 of the system. This phase includes the ability to spend points in Champion Passives and many ability changes that complement the system"
He calls it phase 3. Try a little googling next time.
You know what? This took even less time that the last. I google "Matt Firor veteran ranks" and the first link in the "News" section was from less than a month ago. Him stating AGAIN that they're being removed.
Source
JUST GOOGLE SEARCH IT.
EDIT: This thread is a perfect example of what this game community has become. Nothing more than whining and impatience.
You're right, this thread IS a perfect example of what this community has become.
It's full of idiots trying to one-up people with innaccurate information, and derailing threads for no reason.
The position that veteran ranks are going to be removed is the foundation upon which the argument in my OP is built. For you to ignore that and go on this incessant exercise in internet searching is ludicrous, and if I were you I would take this opportunity to calmly retreat from my thread.
The whole point of your thread was based on the fact that you didn't understand that veteran rank removal was a phasal change and is still actively being worked on. I can't remember where I read it, but they've also stated that progression from VR1-VR14 will not be removed simply because the veteran system itself is. We don't know the specifics of this statement yet. Many speculate a conversion to the CP system, others think it will be a vertical progression that's gear/content based similar to how WoW and other MMOs structure their end game.
We could've avoided this whole exchange if you had simply posted this in the first place.
Now, to address your points; I really don't see how it matters that Veteran Rank removal is the last in a series of phases. How can they force something to replace the progression of V1-V14 if you have access to all the content at that point. How will they enforce gear-based progression if you can do all the dungeons, trials and PvP at level 50? That doesn't really make sense to me. I still don't see why they need to enforce the current system of V1-V14 grinding.Edited by Rook_Master on May 27, 2015 6:38PM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »I still think people are asking the wrong question - the real one that matters is:
'Why are there not more varied and interesting ways to gain XP for my characters instead of being pushed to go through the same set of quests over and over again'
I don't think it matters if you are grinding for Vet or grinding for CP - the reality is that the 13 million XP you need to level up to VR14 is dwarved by the 1.4 BILLION XP you need to max out CP or even by the 432 million you need to gain all the passives going.
Right now they may or may not be able to remove Vet levels without causing chaos and anger but how is that going to make your game playing better - you are still going to need to do something to gain XP and that something is still going to be Cadwell's Silver & Gold quests or whatever else you do now...
Personally I wish they'd just drop the whole thing, announce it and focus any efforts on producing lots and lots of quality new content so that those who hate the existing quests have other options...
You're forgetting something, though. When they get rid of VR, all your weak VR1-13 alts gain stat parity with your VR14 mains AND get to wear all the expensive VR14 gear sets you've been collecting. This is a big deal for many people, especially since a bunch of us re-rolled alts right after the Update 1.6 Nerfageddon.
Edited by Emma_Overload on May 27, 2015 6:39PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭I'm sorry for misspeaking and using the term "ever". There's not been anything this year, in any of the "this is what we're working on" speeches that have mentioned spellcrafting. They even came out and said that of the things they were working on/wanted to work on it was put on the back burner.
In any case, that's a horrible argument for them not removing the veteran system. It's just cynical to mistrust them on their release with anything else because what you wanted got delayed.
It is based in mistrust. I am cynical. Not because what I want got delayed. But because if you listen closely, it is easy to see that they contradicted themselves in regards to the feature I want. They claim backburner, only when provoked. If not, they probably wouldn't have said anything. But the statement about summons is a contradiction. Gina herself said "don't count on it." Not, maybe, not dont count on it soon. She said "don't count on it." That shows me that the "SC is on the backburner, now lets move on" answer is a way to get ppl off of their backs without the grief. So, I don't have a hard time believing they will do the same here, is all I am saying, as a cynical player who feels burned. Like I said several time, I hope I am wrong. I also never said I had an air tight arguement. I am just saying what I feel about their transparency and promises. I no longer trust them.
Cynicism is a bad thing. You don't see all the things they've already accomplished that they wanted to. Instead, you let one thing cause you to fully mistrust them because it's the one thing you wanted most. Here's a quote from a thread a few weeks ago.Let's go through what they've already accomplished together. This is taken from their 2014 road map.- A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases
- A justice system—steal from and kill NPCs and deal with the consequences if you are caught
- Migration of European Megaserver to our European datacenter.
- Field of View (FOV) adjustment
- Armor dyeing and tinting
- Two new Veteran Dungeons: Crypt of Hearts and City of Ash
- New region of Craglorn with a new Trial (the Serpent)
- Increased ability to pick up items in the world
- Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood storyline and quests.
- Spellcrafting
- Horse Racing
- Dragonstar Arena—similar to Trials, but built for a group of four
- Improvements to fishing (I don't remember the specific goal, but there have been several adjustments in patch notes)
- Crafting system improvements
- Improved Looking for Group system (This one is debatable, but I'm of the mind that it would work fine if people used it)
- Better NPC facial animations
- Guild functionality updates: guild store interface updates, customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks, and Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
- Auto-leveling dungeons that level to your group leader
- Awards when you repeat dungeons
- Imperial City PvP dungeon
On top of all that's been done, they've rebalanced the Veteran System and introduced the Champion System as well as a ton of bug fixes and other small implementations. All while moving from a subscription based model to a microtransactional model.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭EDIT: Meant to edit instead of post. Whoops.Edited by MCMancub on May 27, 2015 6:43PM0
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Frawr✭✭✭✭✭Yes I agree that they should reduce Vet rank xp. It is a crazy and unnecessary system. Reduce it to 100k/200k/250k whatever. It is a completely irrelevant and temporary gate.
I also cannot imagine that it would take more than 510 seconds to change a value on 'per level' from 1m to 200k so the argument of 'development resources' is also irrelevant until someone explains why it is a difficult task.
So Vet 14s would have 10 CPs instead of 35 CPs (disclaimer, I didn't calculate these), big deal.1 -
docstrawb✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
Now, to address your points; I really don't see how it matters that Veteran Rank removal is the last in a series of phases. How can they force something to replace the progression of V1-V14 if you have access to all the content at that point. How will they enforce gear-based progression if you can do all the dungeons, trials and PvP at level 50? That doesn't really make sense to me. I still don't see why they need to enforce the current system of V1-V14 grinding.
What he is saying is they will switch to gear progression, which I hope isn't true, or I am done. It is what sets eso apart. Basically, There would be gear levels. You could stroll into a top tier raid, because you're lvl 50. But you will get owned, because you don't have the "ilvl" from the previous raids gear that the raid is tuned to. The next step would be to lock you out based on your average ilvl, meaning you couldn't stroll in until you ran the last raid, over and over, to get that gear, but first you run the raid before that, etc. It is a horrible system that every MMO outside of eso uses, which is why I play eso. Let us all pray this is not true.2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:
The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.
For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.
Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.
Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!
i passionately disagree.
-Removing all the character VR ranks/levels is step 1 in ensuring a better endgame experience for everyone.
-The idea of making VR level regular character levels only makes sense if instead of raising character levels past 50, you consider each Champion level a unique character gains is considered a new level (and apply the VR stat and skill points)
*You could raise the NPC characters past 50 using numerical levels as I see no issue there.
-Cadwell's silver and gold quests should all be level 50 - 55 where appropriate as some bosses should be harder than normal NPC's. Let people still have the option to do this content but don't segregate everyone so that they cant play with others or that they are locked behind a VR progression.
-adjusting armor and items from VR should follow the rewards as they exists today using the champion level per character gain mentioned above.
-Why-
-There is an issue where the grouping tools suffer from a 5 level character separation, it wont group people so if we are capped at 50 and champion levels just become an account based post 50 experience the grouping tools can grab multiple level 50 and also allow 46-50 to group as many finish the main story at 45 - 46 if using ESO plus or if they do all the content.
-Once people finish the main story they should feel like they are going to soon join the rest of the level 50's rather than setting out on two more adventures to gain a couple of hundred Champion points AND 14 million more exp AND more VR levels.
-The best way to roll this out is with an expansion for any of the planned DLC you have ready.
-The pre-DLC update will remove the VR levels and the DLC can offer armor and item drops that align with the final adjustments you make to VR items.
*All in all, the goal is not to make the VR character progression seem pointless but to also, drastically shorten and eliminate the endgame separation that exists by the VR leveling system today.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Yes I agree that they should reduce Vet rank xp. It is a crazy and unnecessary system. Reduce it to 100k/200k/250k whatever. It is a completely irrelevant and temporary gate.
I also cannot imagine that it would take more than 510 seconds to change a value on 'per level' from 1m to 200k so the argument of 'development resources' is also irrelevant until someone explains why it is a difficult task.
So Vet 14s would have 10 CPs instead of 35 CPs (disclaimer, I didn't calculate these), big deal.
Exactly.
And if people argue that no one will complete Cadwell's then, do you really think people will when you hit max level in Coldharbour?
If they wanted people to actually do Cadwell's then maybe they should give you something besides a crappy blue non-set amulet for completing it.0 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »
Now, to address your points; I really don't see how it matters that Veteran Rank removal is the last in a series of phases. How can they force something to replace the progression of V1-V14 if you have access to all the content at that point. How will they enforce gear-based progression if you can do all the dungeons, trials and PvP at level 50? That doesn't really make sense to me. I still don't see why they need to enforce the current system of V1-V14 grinding.
What he is saying is they will switch to gear progression, which I hope isn't true, or I am done. It is what sets eso apart. Basically, There would be gear levels. You could stroll into a top tier raid, because you're lvl 50. But you will get owned, because you don't have the "ilvl" from the previous raids gear that the raid is tuned to. The next step would be to lock you out based on your average ilvl, meaning you couldn't stroll in until you ran the last raid, over and over, to get that gear, but first you run the raid before that, etc. It is a horrible system that every MMO outside of eso uses, which is why I play eso. Let us all pray this is not true.
Ewww, that's really gross. I wouldn't touch that sort of system with a 10 foot pole.
I really hope that is not what happens.1 -
docstrawb✭✭✭
Cynicism is a bad thing. You don't see all the things they've already accomplished that they wanted to. Instead, you let one thing cause you to fully mistrust them because it's the one thing you wanted most. Here's a quote from a thread a few weeks ago.Let's go through what they've already accomplished together. This is taken from their 2014 road map.- A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases
- A justice system—steal from and kill NPCs and deal with the consequences if you are caught
- Migration of European Megaserver to our European datacenter.
- Field of View (FOV) adjustment
- Armor dyeing and tinting
- Two new Veteran Dungeons: Crypt of Hearts and City of Ash
- New region of Craglorn with a new Trial (the Serpent)
- Increased ability to pick up items in the world
- Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood storyline and quests.
- Spellcrafting
- Horse Racing
- Dragonstar Arena—similar to Trials, but built for a group of four
- Improvements to fishing (I don't remember the specific goal, but there have been several adjustments in patch notes)
- Crafting system improvements
- Improved Looking for Group system (This one is debatable, but I'm of the mind that it would work fine if people used it)
- Better NPC facial animations
- Guild functionality updates: guild store interface updates, customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks, and Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
- Auto-leveling dungeons that level to your group leader
- Awards when you repeat dungeons
- Imperial City PvP dungeon
On top of all that's been done, they've rebalanced the Veteran System and introduced the Champion System as well as a ton of bug fixes and other small implementations. All while moving from a subscription based model to a microtransactional model.
The glory of this is simple. Look at whats been done. Justice system, cool, but definitely niche, adding little to the actual content in a meaningful way. Fishing, dyes, crown store, vet scaling of old content. With a few exceptions, all simple little tweeks or niche content. Now look at what hasn't been done. Imperial city, SC, Thieves Guild and DB. The big things that would truly grow the game to what TES fans felt it should have been in the first place, and legit new content. This is why I am cynical.0 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a sneaking suspicion that ZOS doesn't know *what* they want. If they have a long-term plan, it's probably written on the back of a cocktail napkin with no specifics. Saying "We want to remove vet ranks" with no real plan on HOW to do it is kind of like me saying "I want to be famous."
And I also suspect the only thing on their minds right now is how rich they're going to be when all the console players come in and buy a ton of stuff from the crown store. "I'll spend my bonus on my own island!" several of them are thinking.3 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭At this point, they should leave Vet ranks as is. Why waste programming and design resources on some illusory VR to whatever-new-system conversion when they could be working on new content.2
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gard✭✭✭✭✭Because it would be a waste of valuable development resources that would be better spent removing the VR levels once and for all.
How's that for an answer.
Why do you feel you need to grind to V14? If you don't want to, don't.
I think the general consensus is that if one wants to be competitive in pvp, he pretty needs to be vR14.
That's why people feel the need to get to v14 as quickly as possible.
Champ system/VR system seems to me to be different implementations of the same grind.
Just instead of grinding vet levels, you grind champ points.
Personally I don't look at it as a grind though, but as an opportunity to continue to evolve my toon.1