The bots have returned...and are growing smarter...

BuggeX · May 2015

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

ppl like you dont know how far bots can going.

it starts with farming mats,

after we will see bots in delves aigan

and at some point, whole guilds using bots to take emp over the night.

i acctually dont wanna see this

Molsondry · May 2015

*** trust me I come from 6 years playing wow I know what bots can do.

And its nothing compared to how the game is currently broken with lag (Some rumors running around it has gotten alot worse since 1.2 antibot patch)

Iselin · May 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

I'm not sure what's more disturbing. This quote or that fact that 6 people agreed with it.

Bots are the main tool of gold farmers/sellers. These are malicious entities that will stop at nothing to make a buck. Including hacking accounts by using malicious tactics such as keyloggers. They often prey on people that don't know any better like children by getting them to go to their website. Which is contaminated my malicious programs designed to put virus's and other tracking devices on your PC.

So who cares you ask?

I do.

It's a sign of the times. I've even seen posts in many other forums in threads about cheating saying that botting isn't. Where are all these cheaters coming from?

stojekarcub18_ESO · May 2015

I haven't noticed any botting since they seemingly nipped it in the bud not long after launch. Maybe I just am not looking hard enough, though. As far as resource farming goes, check out Craglorn. I do a lot there since it is typically completely empty, and the nodes seem much, much more plentiful(could just be since there's no one there to harvest them).

CaptainObvious · May 2015

Botting is more noticeable pre-vet areas. I noticed someone attempting and failing miserably at a new combat bot recently.

As for harvesting resources and generally lowering prices. Some people are savers and some are spenders. Lower prices assumes everyone is a spender. Harvesters typically starve the resource market to raise prices and then strike when profits are up.

Expect a motif price jump in a couple of weeks as a practical example.

arena25 · May 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

You saw bots, you submitted ticket.
What the point of this thread then?

Hey there @Mishanya , I basically started this thread up to give a fair warning that bots have returned. I don't know if it has anything to do with console release, but bots are bots and it's a violation of ToS.

We haven't seen bots around here for a long time, so now that I'm seeing bots (which as I said, may or may not be connected to console), it's better to give a heads-up to community and ZOS.

I know that several people think bots are healthy for the economy, but if you hop over to the News and Announcements forum, you'll notice that ZOS is planning on deactivating accounts with fraudulently obtained game keys. I bet you bots will likely use said fraudulently obtained game keys.

And I know World of Warcraft has bots all over the place, especially at 1 a.m. in the morning in battlegrounds (a YouTube video proved it), but most every game will say botting is against their ToS.

Like I said, this thread will serve as a heads-up.

I'm sorry if this post is a random jumble of words, and I also apologize if you don't understand. I still haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm not good with words until I'm fully awake.

Let's crush dem bots into the ground.

Signed,

Arena25

QuadroTony · May 2015

its mby because blizzard banned 100k+ account for botting, and this botters migrate now to teso

QuadroTony · May 2015

i will never report bots even if i saw them, if they not affect my game, so let ZOS care of them with their detect soft

i will repor people/bots only if they affect me like flying in PVP or other things in pvp which usual player cannot do
if i see pve bot or player acting like a bot - let it be, IMO
not worth my time to report any of them
but if some1 instead of playing doing tracking pve bots - just lol, if it so interesting

BigM · May 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

i will never report bots even if i saw them, if they not affect my game, so let ZOS care of them with their detect soft

i will repor people/bots only if they affect me like flying in PVP or other things in pvp which usual player cannot do
if i see pve bot or player acting like a bot - let it be, IMO
not worth my time to report any of them
but if some1 instead of playing doing tracking pve bots - just lol, if it so interesting

I have seen a lot of dumb posts but I think you have won the most dumb post of the year. Bots hurt everyone that plays the game the way it was meant to be played.

QuadroTony · May 2015

pve bots, if they exist - didnt hurt me
i still selling alor of item on auction like for 1 million per week, and the price for maths and other staff still high
eve it become too low - i will sold another items instead

so dont tell me weird things, tell about yourself not for al lol

newtinmpls · May 2015

arena25 wrote: »

Allow me to explain.

<snip>

Potential Bot #1 (I say potential because I follow the mantra "Innocent until proven guilty")

I just want to thank you for posting your observations and reasoning. It helps me understand how truly annoying botting would be. I have limited time to play, and while I'm a good enough sport to not fuss too much when I need to "alternate politely" and let a stranger have some of the mats available rather than make it a spazzy race.

I'm happy to report what I see, and let ZoS evaluate it.

idk · May 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Bots can't be a good thing. Its unfair to people who dont bot farming/leveling wise.

And bots having improved functions means more people may run around in pvp with auto-block, auto break cc programs on.

The price argument is invalid. It makes honnest sellers unable to sell their stuff.

There is no valid argument that can support botting. It is a hack that is clearly a cheat and against the ToS for a reason. Keeping sellers "honest" is done by the market and most certainly not a valid argument to support bots.

QuadroTony · May 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Bots can't be a good thing. Its unfair to people who dont bot farming/leveling wise.

And bots having improved functions means more people may run around in pvp with auto-block, auto break cc programs on.

The price argument is invalid. It makes honnest sellers unable to sell their stuff.

There is no valid argument that can support botting. It is a hack that is clearly a cheat and against the ToS for a reason. Keeping sellers "honest" is done by the market and most certainly not a valid argument to support bots.

agreed
and when game was on p2p model all was fine
bots appear mostly aftre it changed and cancel the subscription, i guess

Deome · May 2015

I feel rather vindicated now. I mentioned this as an issue that ZOS appears to already be tackling: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171004/three-reasons-why-i-just-renewed-eso-plus-for-three-months

Emma_Overload · May 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

I'm not sure what's more disturbing. This quote or that fact that 6 people agreed with it.

Bots are the main tool of gold farmers/sellers. These are malicious entities that will stop at nothing to make a buck. Including hacking accounts by using malicious tactics such as keyloggers. They often prey on people that don't know any better like children by getting them to go to their website. Which is contaminated my malicious programs designed to put virus's and other tracking devices on your PC.

So who cares you ask?

I do.

His agrees are up to 8 now, and I"m one of them. The OP post is so silly, I'm half-convinced it's a joke. This is like some nosy neighbor twitching her curtains and peeking through her blinds to see what the the guy next door is doing. "ZOMG, what is he carrying in that sack... could it be a DEAD BODY?"

ROTFL!!! It sounds to me like you and the OP are just busybodies who can't seem to mind your own business. XP and other rewards in delves have already been royally screwed up because of irrational fears about gold farming bots. The last thing ESO needs is even more nerfs thanks to you guys!

Bouvin · May 2015

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

The botting "fix" in 1.2 is causing massive lag in Cyrodil.

So they are bad, but only because of how ZoS handles them.

F7sus4 · May 2015

Well, I had myself the experience to be accused of being a bot. Just because I'm AFK for a few minutes during my material farming routes, it doesn't mean I'm not a living person. I usually play at work and have to interrupt frequently. That's why I'm not doing any dungeons/pledges etc. during that time but either solo grind or farm. I'm not that passive-agressive kind of guy to back-report person trying to report me, I just find that kind of people plainly stupid. If you want to be the Unofficial ZOS Anti-bot Police Officer Service, at least talk to the person and keep in mind that the lack of answer also does not automatically mean you've actually "catched" a bot.

TLDR Conclusion: Please note that overcomplicating bot-detection routines by ZOS' side may lead to false positive results. I hope I don't have to explain how awful experience it is to get your account suspended for completely random reasons. Especially after investing good part of the past year into the game.

newtinmpls · May 2015

What botting fix caused problems?

The only one I was aware of was the restrictions on deletes - and I don't really see how less computer activity is going to make things more laggy.

Bouvin · May 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Well, I had myself the experience to be accused of being a bot. Just because I'm AFK for a few minutes during my material farming routes, it doesn't mean I'm not a living person. I often play at work and have to interrupt frequently. That's why I'm not doing any dungeons/pledges etc. during the time but either solo CP-grind or farm. I'm not that passive-agressive kind of guy to back report person trying to report me, but I also find that kind of behavior just stupid.

TLDR Conclusion: Please note that overcomplicating bot-detection routines by ZOS' side may lead to false positive results. I hope I don't have to explain how awful experience it is to get your account suspended for completely random reasons. Especially after investing good part of the past year into the game.

This is just evidence that their bot detection doesn't work.

If it provides false positives, and they take action without further investigation, then it's just as likely that there are plenty of bots our there getting past the detection.

QuadroTony · May 2015

i wont ZOS become two-faced like Blizzard
they sayng we against bots

but they banned 100k accounts for botting not permanently, but for 6 month only, lol

Deome · May 2015

Molsondry wrote: »

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

I'm always releasing addon updates or new addons, and I have a long laundry list of addons people have suggested/begged for that I'd love to get around to writing. I don't follow other addon developers as much anymore, so I've no comment there, but I feel like my development time is overloaded.

F7sus4 · May 2015

To be honest, I neither don't fully believe in automated bot-detection, nor in gold-sellers detection system. Unless there's a train of 10 bots running one on the top of each other around the map. But that would make PvP trains "suspicious" as well (false positive example no.1) and also people running with the bots to catch their names for reporting (false positive example no.2). We could multiply the examples endlessly.

But I guess we all agree that banning even a single account for random/unfair reason should never happen. And it would if they introduced the method (probably randomly working/not working and massively bugged).

Deome · May 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I take bots as a good thing. For a while, the game was so unpopular bots couldn't be bother

Really can't say I agree that they're a good thing, but I totally understand. Whenever I move to a new city I tend to look for neighborhoods filled with hipsters, expensive coffee shops, luxury SUVs, and an overabundance of baby slings, pitchoulie, and "alternative" hairstyles. Most annoy me profoundly, but at least I know the economy is doing well there--ironic t-shirts are directly proportional to economic prosperity.

Sandmanninja · May 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

i will never report bots even if i saw them, if they not affect my game, so let ZOS care of them with their detect soft

i will repor people/bots only if they affect me like flying in PVP or other things in pvp which usual player cannot do
if i see pve bot or player acting like a bot - let it be, IMO
not worth my time to report any of them
but if some1 instead of playing doing tracking pve bots - just lol, if it so interesting

1) look at the bot
2) interact, report as bot

Not a lot of work, ya know.

And not reporting a bot unless it affects me personally is NO DIFFERENT to seeing someone break into your neighbour's house and ignoring it.
"He's not breaking into MY house..."

Elsonso · May 2015

Coatmagic wrote: »

I do hope you are least whispering to these people before reporting them. If my EP char runs out of mats while doing daily writs, of course I am going to do exactly what you described here! And, yes, thanks to harvest map, I might very well run up to a node area that is not spawned yet! -_-

I don't find whispering to them to be productive. If they are a bot, I report them and I don't need to talk to them. If they are not a bot, I have little reason to talk to them. In any case, trying to chat them up only works if you have the authority to compel a response, and players do not have that. The lack of a response means nothing. A response may also mean nothing.

F7sus4 wrote: »

Well, I had myself the experience to be accused of being a bot. Just because I'm AFK for a few minutes during my material farming routes, it doesn't mean I'm not a living person. I usually play at work and have to interrupt frequently. That's why I'm not doing any dungeons/pledges etc. during that time but either solo grind or farm. I'm not that passive-agressive kind of guy to back-report person trying to report me, I just find that kind of people plainly stupid. If you want to be the Unofficial ZOS Anti-bot Police Officer Service, at least talk to the person and keep in mind that the lack of answer also does not automatically mean you've actually "catched" a bot.

When nodes used to respawn in seconds, bots could stand in one spot and collect 200 mats in a few minutes, mail them to a central person, and go on for hours this way.. This does not happen anymore and a bot that is standing over a node spawn is a waste of a bot.

People are not stupid, but they are also generally inexperienced in detecting bots. People searching for bots will inevitably find what they are looking for, even if it is not a bot. I am sure that ZOS has their fair share of cases when someone is reported as a bot but is not.

BigM · May 2015

We use to use this to catch the botter because we couldn't see them. http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info181-FastReport.html#info

Might be time to get this working again!

Cry_Wolfe · May 2015

I was in Bal Foyen yesterday.
I use Harvest Map and am set to autoloot.
I feel like a bot more often than not.

God Forfend the Bots return.... farming is actually possible nowadays.

drschplatt · May 2015

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

Based on what you've written here, you must not have been around before they squashed most of the bots. They completely ruined the game when the bots were thriving.

Tavore1138 · May 2015

Obviously bots are bad and I reported a few suspects in the early days but equally false reporting is bad too so... are there things that a bot cannot feasibly do? Things the eagle eyed vigilante could watch for so as to avoid false reporting?

In my simply non-programmer way I have always assumed that there are things that cannot be done by a bot or at least there would be things that might be possible but not without spending so much time programming that the effort becomes too much versus the possible returns.

For example - could a bot lockpick a chest? Would a bot seek mob rich areas, kill stuff and loot it with any degree of accuracy or would they seek less mob rich areas where fights would be few or even zero?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · May 2015

Hack bots, the kind of bots that were abundant in the PC version right after launch, can do almost anything, because they can snoop into the network data and the game environment to see what is where, and who does what. Blind bots, the ones sending pre-recorded controller commands to an unhacked game client, are basically limited to running loops to collect stuff, and they are incapable of doing anything that resembles a human player. Rumor has it that advanced console bots navigating by computer vision algorithms are a real thing, and theoretically such bots could do quite a lot. However, it's doubtful whether there is enough gain in the ESO botting industry to motivate any serious game-specific efforts being put into the feature detection and AI programming that would be required for that kind of bots.

I would expect early bots in the console game to be utterly stupid and easily detectable, but I also expect them to get at least slightly smarter and less obvious over time, if nothing else because the obvious ones will be reported and banned pretty quickly.