The bots have returned...and are growing smarter...

arena25

Allow me to explain.

I usually like to do a resource run at Bal Foyen approximately whenever I feel like doing so, mainly to sell crafting materials to my guild.

Well, today I was doing one of those resource runs when I believe I came across three bots that may or may not be tied to the same account.

I'm not going to name names or likenesses out of respect of the naming and shaming policy, but I will give you a play-by-play that will hopefully show why they are not only botting, but also why they may not get caught:

Potential Bot #1 (I say potential because I follow the mantra "Innocent until proven guilty") started at the wayshrine and proceeded to run around the Wayshrine area, hitting all the nodes. Her movements, which oddly replicated NPCs running actions and speed, suggested botting. She proceeded to hit all the nodes before heading up the hill towards Dhalmora proper and it was at that point I lost her. I didn't get the last part of her name, and I couldn't tell where she disappeared off to.

Potential Bot #2 started at the wayshrine and at first I couldn't tell if it was a bot or not. At first, I almost let the mark go because she killed a snake, but proceeded to follow the exact same path as Potential Bot #1, just in reverse. Again, she headed up the hill, and I decided not to pursue. She eventually returned to the wayshrine and teleported to who knows where.

Potential Bot #3 started at the wayshrine, and again, I couldn't tell if it was a bot. But he proceeded to follow the same path over and over for 3 laps until he finished at the wayshrine, then teleported back to who knows where.

In all three cases, they chose the smart way and picked Bal Foyen, which not a lot of players are seen there and therefore less chance of reporting.

I have submitted a ticket to Customer Support

And I know what you're thinking, "By doing resource runs, aren't you a bot too?" Well, I reply with "Bots don't usually have the controller present. In the case of resource runners like yours truly, I collect resource by myself without assistive (aka botting) technology. A crucial distinction!"

Molsondry

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

Gidorick

BigM

Yep they are taking over the dungeons again. Sure hope they fix this fast, but they will have to pull their heads out of console to do it.

BigM

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

You do know once you allow them to take over, crafting will be broken because they will eat up all resources like they did at going live. Also they will cause lag a lot more than what you are dealing with now. Once you allow bots you might as will close up shop. They need to fight this fast before it grows.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

This may be a practice run for the console bots that are almost certainly going to appear right after the console launch. They don't use a hacked client, because that is close to impossible on consoles, so they use a simulated USB control stick hooked up to a regular game client on a standard console box. The bot would basically be a blind, very long macro recording, causing strongly repetitive behavior as exactly the same sequence of commands is played back for every run. This kind of botting could remain under the radar for months, but we'll see how ZOS decide to combat it. I think they might have some tricks up their sleeve from their war against bots in the PC version, but the first step towards eradicating them is for players to be observant and report suspicious, repetitive behavior. Well spotted!

(Edit: grammar.)

Kupoking

Bots can't be a good thing. Its unfair to people who dont bot farming/leveling wise.

And bots having improved functions means more people may run around in pvp with auto-block, auto break cc programs on.

The price argument is invalid. It makes honnest sellers unable to sell their stuff.

Streega

Well, I guess I'm a bot Every day when I log in: 1. I run to the board and take the writ; 2. Run to the alchemy station and make whatever is needed; 3. Ride to the delivery point and leave the goods; 4. Run to the chest spawning point; 5, 6, 7. Check three node spawning points; 8. Go back to the city and buy a riding skill. Repeat and rinse next day

Jokes aside, many times just the second I killed the "guardian" node misteriously dissapeared... Literally, I had the node in sight all the time and suddenly *puff* my prize vanishes O_o

Elsonso

The gold and mats farming bots never really left, as near as I can tell. The gold sellers that would stand in places like Vulkhel Guard and advertize, those I have not seen in a long time.

There are several traits that bots have (which I will not reveal, thank you) which are possible to detect. A well behaved bot is rarely something that anyone would report simply because the other players just don't see it as a bot. I rarely report these bots, even when I see them and confirm that they are bots. ZOS might not see them as bots, even if I am 100% certain that they are, and I don't care to get some GM talking to me about "false" bot reports. They are probably using stolen keys, and this action recently against keys purchased fraudulently may help curb some of the botting for a while.

Sometimes the bot is just behaving like a bot and it is obvious that no one is at the controls. I will report these because if the botter is stupid enough to not at least check on them from time to time, they deserve to be reported and the account taken away.

I have not seen them in dungeons, only in the open. My take is that dungeons are not profitable for botting anymore. I don't go there for loot or XP because they are not worth repeating endlessly. I cannot imagine gold and materials farmers would see that differently.

Molsondry

Bots wont kill the game WOW have been stuck with them for 10 years, still they had 10 million suscriber at WoD release wich is more player then eso will EVER HAVE

Wow being stuck with bot only proves the game is still profitable and its still popular.

Like I mentioned above the only reason the bot will dissapear will be because the game is dead, so no one buys gold , so no reason to bot.

And if your seeing more bots right now ( they never stopped to be there btw they where jsut gone because game was dead and development stopped) its because they removed subs , so some player came back (with the state of the game thats feel like beta idk for how long) therefore there was some gold demand, therefor... Hi you!! tehre the bots. BTW I can confirm you that bots development for eso has restarted and you will see more and more bots.

And unless the games dies...

Well you know look at wow . lol

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Streega wrote: »

Well, I guess I'm a bot

No, you're not. Don't worry. As long as you are using your hands to push the buttons, you are not running exactly the same path every time. Finding repetitive patterns with no variation at all is an easy task for automated software, and it would be a relatively simple matter for ZOS to use a server-side logger to spy on suspicious bots, and ban them for macro playback.

They could even have loggers spying pre-emptively on random players at random times, and it would still not be anywhere near the server side workload of having to check every player all the time. Their overkill approach on the PC server is basically equivalent to always watching everyone, and that was probably what killed PvP performance.

arena25

Hey guys, just to clarify, as @stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO said, as long as you are using your hands to push the buttons, you are not a bot.

For instance, nearly every morning, from my position at the Enchanting store at Davon's Watch, I move my character to the Woodworking station, research an item (if I have any to research, that is), then run to the Clothing station, research an item, then go to Blacksmithing station and research an item there. Then I run back to Enchanting store and log out. Am I a bot? No. I used my hands, not some assistive technology, so therefore, I am not a bot.

And remember, only report those players that you can tell are bots. Reporting some guy for botting with very little evidence is basically misuse of reporting tool. In this case, these three had some signs of botting, so I reported them. As Clash of Clans says, "Report people only when necessary...don't get carried away!"

Molsondry

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Bots can't be a good thing. Its unfair to people who dont bot farming/leveling wise.

And bots having improved functions means more people may run around in pvp with auto-block, auto break cc programs on.

The price argument is invalid. It makes honnest sellers unable to sell their stuff.

IF zenimax didnt have a broken combat system coding, macroing wouldnt be superior to good human.

Look at wow, there are VERY ADVANCED ROTATION PVP BOTS, but most rotation bots player doing arena are stuck near 2k all the best player beat them like nothing. There are few one running 2600+ but there are already great players . Remove them the bot give em 2 week to get used to there dps rotation again and they will just shine again.. I think its only lazyness. What I want to say here Is a player will always be better then a bot because a bot is a script and a human is a human.

Ppl are already macroing and the unfair advantage comes from the broken combat code(animation canceling, the fact that a good timed script can outperform any human because animation canceling requires really good timing) , PPL ARE ALREADY USING MACROING TO GET AN UNFAIRE ADVANTAGE , so I dont see the difference here.

Talking about gold market , we all know some guy out there control the price market, there are big merchant guild out there im not stupid ive seen it in wow they control market price and stack up gold ... what do they do with all that gold? they sell sell it for money to gold seller that sell them back to players... its not better then bot farming... honestly.

timidobserver

I take bots as a good thing. For a while, the game was so unpopular bots couldn't be bother

Ranique

I think the increase has everything to do with the console release. during the first weeks a game releases, it is goldseller heaven, cause thats the moment they sell the most.

So it is likely that they are farming, but not selling, but stocking it up on accounts that will be copied to console. Even though that I'll stay loyal to the PC, I dop hope that ZoS takes these signals serious and investigates if this is not transferred to console.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

I take bots as a good thing. For a while, the game was so unpopular bots couldn't be bother

Having them attempt to get into the game is a sign of the game being reasonably popular and healthy. Having them actually get into the game in greater numbers would be disastrous. The botters are greedy people doing business. They don't care one bit about the long term survival of the game, so they will show no restraint if they are allowed free reign. If that happens, most of the gold and crafting materials in the game will soon be in the hands of third party cash shops, and the game will be dead.

Tavore1138

If you know an areas spawn points you can often spot bots because they will go to unspawned node locations whereas a real mat farmer will bypass them.

bosmern_ESO

I hope you submit a report in ESO about them, It will reach ZoS faster.

To do so type /bug in game and the window will pop up, you should be able to copy and paste the examples you posted above into it.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

To do so type /bug in game

If you spot a bot, you should report it by the "report player" option in the player interaction wheel. A /bug report for this kind of thing will probably end up in the trash bin. Bug reports are sent to the developers, not GMs. You wouldn't find a proper category for that bug report anyway. Using /feedback would be a better way to report the problem without reporting any specific player, but I'm not sure they keep a good watch on the feedback tickets these days.

Acrolas

Elsonso

alifesoft wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

And I know what you're thinking, "By doing resource runs, aren't you a bot too?" Well, I reply with "Bots don't usually have the controller present. In the case of resource runners like yours truly, I collect resource by myself without assistive (aka botting) technology. A crucial distinction!"

[...]

Real people at work running the keyboard are not bots. Bots behave differently than unskilled labor from China and Vietnam.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Chuggernaut

Couldn't you just use the resource node add-on to map a route to hit them all efficiently and not be a bot?

Molsondry

Captcha wont work. lol They have navigation mesh , behavior, rotation. Captcha is nothing

Mishanya

You saw bots, you submitted ticket.
What the point of this thread then?

Samadhi

Personally run the same laps to the same specific nodes in the same order over and over when farming resource nodes -- my OCD makes it very difficult to stray from the sort of ritualistic path that blossoms in a similar way to how it is virtually impossible for me to interrupt my compulsive hand-washing rituals.

Have had people try to whisper me over and over, eventually degrading into threats that they will report me due to not responding.
It is normally at that point that I click their name and send in a harassment report including a screenshot of the chat log.

At least you are just shadowing people and sending in tickets for ZOS to determine the validity of the issue, props to you for that.
And on the bright side, now that you have posted about how good and secluded of a farming location Bal Foyen is, more people can show up and farm there and report such suspects.

Mishanya

Samadhi wrote: »

Personally run the same laps to the same specific nodes in the same order over and over when farming resource nodes -- my OCD makes it very difficult to stray from the sort of ritualistic path that blossoms in a similar way to how it is virtually impossible for me to interrupt my compulsive hand-washing rituals.

Have had people try to whisper me over and over, eventually degrading into threats that they will report me due to not responding.
It is normally at that point that I click their name and send in a harassment report including a screenshot of the chat log.

At least you are just shadowing people and sending in tickets for ZOS to determine the validity of the issue, props to you for that.
And on the bright side, now that you have posted about how good and secluded of a farming location Bal Foyen is, more people can show up and farm there and report such suspects.

This is good tactics to get rid of competitors actually

Coatmagic

I do hope you are least whispering to these people before reporting them. If my EP char runs out of mats while doing daily writs, of course I am going to do exactly what you described here! And, yes, thanks to harvest map, I might very well run up to a node area that is not spawned yet! -_-

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Coatmagic wrote: »

And, yes, thanks to harvest map, I might very well run up to a node area that is not spawned yet! -_-

But as a person you will never run exactly the same path twice with exactly the same timing, and you (probably) won't stop in front of a node that has not spawned, blindly press "activate", wait for a while and press "loot" even if the loot window never opened, and only then move on to the next, unspawned node, rinse and repeat. This is what blind bots do -- the simple bots that don't hack the client to tap into the game data, but instead need to make do with emulating a USB controller.

Molsondry

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

And, yes, thanks to harvest map, I might very well run up to a node area that is not spawned yet! -_-

But as a person you will never run exactly the same path twice with exactly the same timing, and you (probably) won't stop in front of a node that has not spawned, blindly press "activate", wait for a while and press "loot" even if the loot window never opened, and only then move on to the next, unspawned node, rinse and repeat. This is what blind bots do -- the simple bots that don't hack the client to tap into the game data, but instead need to make do with emulating a USB controller.

Bots are at an other level haha

Sandmanninja

I saw someone yesterday in upper craglorn.
Speed hack. ZOOMING from node to node.
I mounted and reported him as botting while he paused to mine a node.
I've also seen toons off in the distance, almost instantly zooming from one horizon to the other,
I was here in the early days and remember seeing bots ruining public dungeons and making it impossible to get mats.

Alphashado

Molsondry wrote: »

Who cares ? bots are not that bad what do they do? Farm ressources ? lower market price ?(wouldnt be bad at all 200k for a single piece or 6k for a temper ... wth)

Not mentioning alot of player thinks part of the lags comes from the zos Anti-bot system.

Not to mention what zos did with there api and the way server works for anti-bot is broken right now . We have no addons development and everything is being buggy because of it.

There will always be bots, no matter what.... A game with no bot in its just prove the game is dead and therefor no reason to develop and sell a bot.

So in other words . Id rather have a better api for addon development opened , no lag in cyro, lower market price, then having no bots. like 2000x more

I'm not sure what's more disturbing. This quote or that fact that 6 people agreed with it.

Bots are the main tool of gold farmers/sellers. These are malicious entities that will stop at nothing to make a buck. Including hacking accounts by using malicious tactics such as keyloggers. They often prey on people that don't know any better like children by getting them to go to their website. Which is contaminated my malicious programs designed to put virus's and other tracking devices on your PC.

So who cares you ask?

I do.