Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AD has been trying to separate for a while now, we used to have about 2 guild that were in Chillrend and the other guilds spread our in other campaigns. But then chillrend became another lag fight server and no one wanted to play in the lag (not pointing fingers at how it was caused)

It's fairly hard to have AD guilds communicate like how EP guilds do

Do they disable /tells and in game mail on the AD side? I mean, that's all we really use most days.

If you're implying that AD guilds don't coordinate well, that would be accurate IMO. At least from the AD side, it does appear that EP has better cross-guild coordination. Maybe you could come to the darkest of sides and be an ambassador for all factions to help straighten this out and keep it manageable. Setup a pay-pal and/or share your routing number first, lol.

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Retreated, left, went off into the wild blue yonder, whatevs. EP won multiple campaigns, and eventually everyone just slipped off to other campaigns. We ran 1-2 weeks there after the exodus, was very sad to realize no one wanted to fight there anymore.

You know why no one wanted to play on Thornblade anymore, right? The same reasons EP won the campaigns, are why everyone left. It is why everyone is leaving right now when the AD/DC/EP zergs come to campaigns.

It is the same exact thing that is happening on Azura's Star right now, except people have much less patience for it because of what happened on Thornblade...

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

Satiar wrote: »

What happened to EP on Azuras happened to EP on Thorn. But back than, we had guilds stacked and ready to fight it.

And in my opinion, EP won because of fantastic guild coordination.

I totally agree that you won because you had better coordination. You had throngs of people on 24/7 making sure that you kept the lead and flipped keeps back while DC/AD had very little to no organized defense. Then at prime time, the lag was so horrible you could barely do anything to combat what had taken place earlier/later on.

Whatever was taken during primetime by AD/DC was flipped back after and we had to take it all back again the next day.

Let's face it, whichever side has the better daytime/night capping force, wins the campaign. Until they restructure how scoring works, it will always be this way.

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

What happened to EP on Azuras happened to EP on Thorn. But back than, we had guilds stacked and ready to fight it.

And in my opinion, EP won because of fantastic guild coordination.

I totally agree that you won because you had better coordination. You had throngs of people on 24/7 making sure that you kept the lead and flipped keeps back while DC/AD had very little to no organized defense. Then at prime time, the lag was so horrible you could barely do anything to combat what had taken place earlier/later on.

Whatever was taken during primetime by AD/DC was flipped back after and we had to take it all back again the next day.

Let's face it, whichever side has the better daytime/night capping force, wins the campaign. Until they restructure how scoring works, it will always be this way.

Wait are you saying that AD and DC would generally flip the map back in their favor on Thornblade at primetime?

We definitely didn't play the same game.

Takllin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

I can only really participate in the credit for the first two Thornblade wins anyways, due to having been on a long hiatus after that and returning just as Thornblade crashed and burned.

And yes, I did read what he quoted. Coming in and taking a swipe at Satiar over semantics isn't constructive and you know it.

And, while yes, EP shoulders the vast majority of the blame for Thornblade being the way it is now, the other factions currently show no sign of learning from their past mistakes (Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, early Chillrend) or from EP's mistakes in maintaining Thornblade as a buff server.

Either ZOS needs to start policing us or we have to start policing ourselves, and I have little faith in the latter, as the entire community as a whole has failed over and over and over and over again to police themselves on even the smallest level.

This is why I mentioned in the 'Crown Lag' thread that the ESO community is one of the most virulent and toxic ones I've ever seen for an MMO and I played Shadowbane, for Christ's sake.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

I can only really participate in the credit for the first two Thornblade wins anyways, due to having been on a long hiatus after that and returning just as Thornblade crashed and burned.

And yes, I did read what he quoted. Coming in and taking a swipe at Satiar over semantics isn't constructive and you know it.

And, while yes, EP shoulders the vast majority of the blame for Thornblade being the way it is now, the other factions currently show no sign of learning from their past mistakes (Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, early Chillrend) or from EP's mistakes in maintaining Thornblade as a buff server.

Either ZOS needs to start policing us or we have to start policing ourselves, and I have little faith in the latter, as the entire community as a whole has failed over and over and over and over again to police themselves on even the smallest level.

This is why I mentioned in the 'Crown Lag' thread that the ESO community is one of the most virulent and toxic ones I've ever seen for an MMO and I played Shadowbane, for Christ's sake.

We also have a large number of players brought in from the B2P thing that basically have no vested interest in PvP going forward or have no reference point as to how it should work (and did for certain periods of time previously).

Weberda wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

I can only really participate in the credit for the first two Thornblade wins anyways, due to having been on a long hiatus after that and returning just as Thornblade crashed and burned.

And yes, I did read what he quoted. Coming in and taking a swipe at Satiar over semantics isn't constructive and you know it.

And, while yes, EP shoulders the vast majority of the blame for Thornblade being the way it is now, the other factions currently show no sign of learning from their past mistakes (Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, early Chillrend) or from EP's mistakes in maintaining Thornblade as a buff server.

Either ZOS needs to start policing us or we have to start policing ourselves, and I have little faith in the latter, as the entire community as a whole has failed over and over and over and over again to police themselves on even the smallest level.

This is why I mentioned in the 'Crown Lag' thread that the ESO community is one of the most virulent and toxic ones I've ever seen for an MMO and I played Shadowbane, for Christ's sake.

We also have a large number of players brought in from the B2P thing that basically have no vested interest in PvP going forward or have no reference point as to how it should work (and did for certain periods of time previously).

Yeah. I noticed the first round of them are starting to graduate into the Vet leagues from BWB.

Suggestion:
Declare Haderus to be the "PvE" Cyrodiil. Impossible to enforce, but may solicit some traction from DC/EP/AD PvE guilds. Let them RP, do quests, dance, whatever.

Then we'll fight over Thorn / Chill / Azuras. Perhaps combined scoring?

Anyway possible this could be implemented by verbal agreement?

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

I can only really participate in the credit for the first two Thornblade wins anyways, due to having been on a long hiatus after that and returning just as Thornblade crashed and burned.

And yes, I did read what he quoted. Coming in and taking a swipe at Satiar over semantics isn't constructive and you know it.

And, while yes, EP shoulders the vast majority of the blame for Thornblade being the way it is now, the other factions currently show no sign of learning from their past mistakes (Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, early Chillrend) or from EP's mistakes in maintaining Thornblade as a buff server.

Either ZOS needs to start policing us or we have to start policing ourselves, and I have little faith in the latter, as the entire community as a whole has failed over and over and over and over again to police themselves on even the smallest level.

This is why I mentioned in the 'Crown Lag' thread that the ESO community is one of the most virulent and toxic ones I've ever seen for an MMO and I played Shadowbane, for Christ's sake.

We also have a large number of players brought in from the B2P thing that basically have no vested interest in PvP going forward or have no reference point as to how it should work (and did for certain periods of time previously).

Yeah. I noticed the first round of them are starting to graduate into the Vet leagues from BWB.

The big problem here is that the majority of players do not follow the forums in depth. There are a lot guys out there who think it's great to turn the map all one color and beat the crap out of the opposition. Makes them feel good about themselves etc. Sadly this game isn't about just "ourselves". There's a whole community out there to think of. If we want decent PvP in ESO then all of us have a responsibility to act together to make it so. We sure as hell aren't going to get any help from the company that owns the game.

Ishammael wrote: »

Suggestion:
Declare Haderus to be the "PvE" Cyrodiil. Impossible to enforce, but may solicit some traction from DC/EP/AD PvE guilds. Let them RP, do quests, dance, whatever.

Then we'll fight over Thorn / Chill / Azuras. Perhaps combined scoring?

Anyway possible this could be implemented by verbal agreement?

No - for two reasons.

1) It won't work because you cannot expect players from all three factions to go out there and PvE together without killing one another.

2) Some of us have been fighting on Haderus for most of a year and mostly under extreme conditions like what you see on Thorn now. I'll be damned if I'll turn it over to a bunch of PvE'rs who made our lives miserable under Sura when Haderus was a AD buff server.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thornblade is a deep embarrassment for EP. I cringe every time I see it in the list.

Eh, took a while to realize AD and DC really retreated off the server, longer to let go of the best campaign since Wabba.

Seriously, you still think we retreated?

Ignorance is bliss, keep your head in the sand.

Are you insulting him over the use of specific semantics? Because if I go to dictionary.com, it seems he used the term correctly with associated context.

I can retreat into the next room, and not have it have a negative context. I don't think one was implied. AD/DC, for whatever reason (lag, Havoc, et al), retreated.

Withdrew. Left. Vacated.

What's wrong with what he said?

It's been used over and over again in a negative context, that's why. Did you read the quote he posted?

Armitas mentions that it is an embarrassment for EP because they ruined the server by the tactics and playstyles used over and over again. Satiar then comes in and says DC/AD retreated, not that EP ran them off the server because of those tactics/playstyles. Believe me, I'd have loved to stay fighting on Thornblade, but when people refuse to change for the betterment of PvP, we had no choice but to leave the campaign in the rubble that EP created.

It is the refusal to take any responsibility, when even your fellow EP players acknowledge the issue, that irks me.

I can only really participate in the credit for the first two Thornblade wins anyways, due to having been on a long hiatus after that and returning just as Thornblade crashed and burned.

And yes, I did read what he quoted. Coming in and taking a swipe at Satiar over semantics isn't constructive and you know it.

And, while yes, EP shoulders the vast majority of the blame for Thornblade being the way it is now, the other factions currently show no sign of learning from their past mistakes (Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, early Chillrend) or from EP's mistakes in maintaining Thornblade as a buff server.

Either ZOS needs to start policing us or we have to start policing ourselves, and I have little faith in the latter, as the entire community as a whole has failed over and over and over and over again to police themselves on even the smallest level.

This is why I mentioned in the 'Crown Lag' thread that the ESO community is one of the most virulent and toxic ones I've ever seen for an MMO and I played Shadowbane, for Christ's sake.

I'll concede that it wasn't constructive for the sake of not arguing with you because we see eye to eye on a lot of issues. The point of my post lies in what I've said. Part of moving on is understanding what happened in Thornblade, and other campaigns, taking responsibility where it needs to be, and learning/moving on from that.

You can look through my post history, I am in complete agreement that we need to spread out over campaigns for the health of PvP, or we are going to slowly kill it and drive everyone away. ZOS has proved incapable of fixing the lag, and it is up to us to mitigate it as much as we can, while still allowing everyone to have some degree of enjoyment.

I've talked to both of my PvP guilds about moving campaigns, because I believe that we need to swap ASAP or Azura's is dead until the next reset. I'm not trying to get revenge on EP and ruin another campaign because of past transgressions.

Jauriel wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

What happened to EP on Azuras happened to EP on Thorn. But back than, we had guilds stacked and ready to fight it.

And in my opinion, EP won because of fantastic guild coordination.

I totally agree that you won because you had better coordination. You had throngs of people on 24/7 making sure that you kept the lead and flipped keeps back while DC/AD had very little to no organized defense. Then at prime time, the lag was so horrible you could barely do anything to combat what had taken place earlier/later on.

Whatever was taken during primetime by AD/DC was flipped back after and we had to take it all back again the next day.

Let's face it, whichever side has the better daytime/night capping force, wins the campaign. Until they restructure how scoring works, it will always be this way.

AD and DC constantly double teamed us, with huge numbers.

Stop being obtuse, Satiar. Really I didn't start this thread to revisit TB. We can argue till the cows come home why ep dominated there. Does it matter? You guys will never admit to anything and dc and ad will never be able to get you to see our side.

What I am hoping for is some AD admission that Azura is being similarly wrecked and it's not good for anyone, not even them. And lets find a solution.

I second the first part of this.

Some of AD has admitted to the state of Azura's, but we need DC/EP to work with us and provide some kind of competition if we are to have a few guilds leave, otherwise the campaign will just die off and be left to rubble.

Weberda wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Suggestion:
Declare Haderus to be the "PvE" Cyrodiil. Impossible to enforce, but may solicit some traction from DC/EP/AD PvE guilds. Let them RP, do quests, dance, whatever.

Then we'll fight over Thorn / Chill / Azuras. Perhaps combined scoring?

Anyway possible this could be implemented by verbal agreement?

No - for two reasons.

1) It won't work because you cannot expect players from all three factions to go out there and PvE together without killing one another.

2) Some of us have been fighting on Haderus for most of a year and mostly under extreme conditions like what you see on Thorn now. I'll be damned if I'll turn it over to a bunch of PvE'rs who made our lives miserable under Sura when Haderus was a AD buff server.

1. You're right -- I can't expect players to do anything really. The suggestion is a de facto solution to a problem that ZoS hasn't addressed in a whole damn year! Our player base -- for the health of PvP -- must try to come to some agreements about how to solve them. If they want healthy PvE in Cyro, they'll organize the rules themselves.

2. Fine, then let them have Chillrend. I don't really care which one. The point is that there are several threads per week where PvE players complain about being killed while questing, or being farmed, or whatever. Some players just want to grind dungeons. Duelers want a spot, too. I actually like just riding around Cyro b/c I think its a neat zone. I say declare a spot -- then everyone is happy! When they're rdy to jump to the big dance they'll transfer.