Snipe: Can we take a moment to look back at this skill?

Soulac · May 2015

Snipe is fine.

Xael · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

[snip]. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Cody · May 2015

C'mon vortex, not you...... PLEASE out of all the people... not you!!!!:(

/sobs heavily

THE ALL IS LOST MOMENT

alright, enough of that crap. let me explain why people dont complain about snipe as much as WB.

yes, snipe hits harder for longer range, but it has plenty of downsides.

it has a 1 second cast time, meaning it can easily be blocked or dodged by anyone paying attention. and because of this cast time, bow users typically have low DPS, and have to combine other abilties with it to get enough DPS to be effective

anyone spamming venom arrow, crushing shock, or bash if up close, can stop this ability dead in its tracks. when I play my VR14, the people that give me the most trouble are crushing shock users. I have to abandon my bow entirely in straight up combat to deal with them.

it can be reflected by DKs. and trust me, if one does not dodge the reflected snipe..... lets just say bad things happen

and lastly, it is the only hard hitting ability the bow skill line has.

venom arrow/poison injection are only good for the DoT/interrupt(I will admit, the interrupt is nice) and DOTs, as you know, suck in PvP unless its huge like say soul assaults' or meteors' DOT. scatter shot is a knockback. its a nice ability, but only good for the knockback. the damage is low

volley is an AOE that is a DoT AOE and requires the enemy to stay in its radius, it can be healed thru and dodged very easily, and is really only good for PvE AOE, and that's if no one else in the group has an AOE, so even then its best as an emergency only AOE

arrow spray snares, which is nice, but again, does not do alot of damage.

so we are left with snipe, the one true hard hitting ability in the bow skill line. You half its damage, bow damage/DPS goes down the toilet, and the bow becomes what it was the first few months or so of the game: useless.

if you want snipe adjusted, fine. I personally think its easy to beat, but i will not complain if you want it adjusted, but not nerfed. without snipe bow damage output would be absolute garbage. Players already give up a lot of survivalbility making snipe really work, halving snipe's damage will screw those players over completely.

think of a way to adjust it without screwing bow users over please:) I waited over 6 months for my bow to finally have an impact, I dont want it being made useless again.

Cody · May 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

Snipe is for cowards and i think the range is way to long and the fact that you can re-enter steath after using it at max range is a little wrong

now im a coward because i use snipe?

oh that's right, a "coward" is someone who kills you before you commence hiding behind block block casting, or before you commence endless roll dodging, or endless damage shield stacking(or damage absorber, both are the same in this particular game) you call me a coward for using snipe? well i call you a coward for hiding behind your block like a p***y:) See? that crap can go both ways.

trust me, getting killed by snipe is NOTHING compared to some of the ridiculous crap that goes on in PvP

Cody · May 2015

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

excellent.

Xael · May 2015

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

Xeven · May 2015

Brizz wrote: »

It's actually pretty hard to sit back and snipe

Cody, asking people to give up 2 slots and 5% magicka is absurd, and you should feel bad for even suggesting it. You are such a forumblade.

Cody · May 2015

Xael wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

trust me, i fully understand. People were calling snipe OP back in 1.5 when LA players using a shield were virtually unkillable. yeah, snipe is OP as fudge, but the robe wearing invincible high damage causing magicka players are totally fine......

People will not stop complaining about snipe until it does 0.1 points of damage.

vortexman11 · May 2015

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

trust me, i fully understand. People were calling snipe OP back in 1.5 when LA players using a shield were virtually unkillable. yeah, snipe is OP as fudge, but the robe wearing invincible high damage causing magicka players are totally fine......

People will not stop complaining about snipe until it does 0.1 points of damage.

As a reflect spamming DK snipe doesn't usually bother me, it has virtually no effect on my build or my play style so that has nothing to do with me making this thread... And Cody I didn't mention said class that wears light armour and hits like a truck because everytime I do it turns into a nerf _____ thread... And snipe was never OP in 1.5, what was OP is 100+% healing debuffs (so debuffed that not even cleanse which is supposed to take the debuff off and heal me didn't even heal me..)

bosmern_ESO · May 2015

Wrecking blow also has rally, it would hit less then snipe if 2h didnt have that ability, along with the other passives that buff up 2h abilities.

Domander · May 2015

well, first keep in mind that a 2 hander gives a lot more weapon damage than a bow, so there is greater damage potential.

Wrecking blow also has a hard stun attached to it and a damage buff for the next attack. Snipe is only a debuff.

Snipe is easily dodged, and a shield will block more damage because its a projectile. Snipe is also interruptable, and reflectable.

vortexman11 · May 2015

@Xael Sorry didn't want to quote that because it would take up so much space...

Everytime I get on my horse to ride between keeps I slot radiant mage light so I guess Im not one the ignorant people?

And please don't call this a rant...I have nothing against the skill...Im just looking at it and its mechanics (if I wrote something about fear that would be a rant because... just..don't get me started on fear). I was just looking at Snipe and comparing it to other skills currently available in the game... Even Crystal Fragments its closest ranged skill damage wise doesn't have the same range as snipe, crystal fragments which is also interuptable, and speaking of snipe, the fact that its range is longer than most interupts doesn't help much either.

This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

This here is an example of what Im getting at, as much as most people don't like the way these people choose to play (1 or 2 shotting most people) they have to do so from close range, they have to get right up behind who ever they're planning to hit. Yet when I PvP, too often do I see people sitting on a wall in perfect safety being able to get the same burst out.

And no offense but your comment seemed more like a rant than anything else.

By the way guys...sorry for that comment calling snipers cowards..I'd ask for that to be deleted if it was possible

vortexman11 · May 2015

Domander wrote: »

well, first keep in mind that a 2 hander gives a lot more weapon damage than a bow, so there is greater damage potential.

Wrecking blow also has a hard stun attached to it and a damage buff for the next attack. Snope is only a debuff.

Snipe is easily dodged, and a shield will block more damage because its a projectile. Snipe is also interruptable, and reflectable.

Snipe from stealth also has a stun attatched to it, and wreckingblow is just as easily dodged, you can pretty much walk through the person using wreckingblow and the skill will miss. And like I said above, whats the point of a skill being interuptable when it can be casted out of the range of any ranged interrupt or gap closer

Cody · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

trust me, i fully understand. People were calling snipe OP back in 1.5 when LA players using a shield were virtually unkillable. yeah, snipe is OP as fudge, but the robe wearing invincible high damage causing magicka players are totally fine......

People will not stop complaining about snipe until it does 0.1 points of damage.

As a reflect spamming DK snipe doesn't usually bother me, it has virtually no effect on my build or my play style so that has nothing to do with me making this thread... And Cody I didn't mention said class that wears light armour and hits like a truck because everytime I do it turns into a nerf _____ thread... And snipe was never OP in 1.5, what was OP is 100+% healing debuffs (so debuffed that not even cleanse which is supposed to take the debuff off and heal me didn't even heal me..)

OK, so you already use one of the counters.... therefore snipe has no affect on you.

so why did you make this thread vortex? you do realize you are complaining about an ability that is easy to counter, and that, if nerfed, would make a weapon utterly useless save for snaring and interrupting people?

Tell you what, I will make a deal with you, but you wont like it.

IF you nerf snipe to do half the damage it does now, then I want snipe made unblockable. If it does garbage damage, I want all that damage getting thru. I already have my survivablity at almost non-existent to make the ability work. if it gets nerfed in half, I want it to be able to retain what little effectiveness it would have, that way I would be able to contribute to the battle, even if it was a minuscule amount of contribution.

you can keep it dodgable, I will be lenient in that regard.

vortexman11 · May 2015

Cody wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

trust me, i fully understand. People were calling snipe OP back in 1.5 when LA players using a shield were virtually unkillable. yeah, snipe is OP as fudge, but the robe wearing invincible high damage causing magicka players are totally fine......

People will not stop complaining about snipe until it does 0.1 points of damage.

As a reflect spamming DK snipe doesn't usually bother me, it has virtually no effect on my build or my play style so that has nothing to do with me making this thread... And Cody I didn't mention said class that wears light armour and hits like a truck because everytime I do it turns into a nerf _____ thread... And snipe was never OP in 1.5, what was OP is 100+% healing debuffs (so debuffed that not even cleanse which is supposed to take the debuff off and heal me didn't even heal me..)

OK, so you already use one of the counters.... therefore snipe has no affect on you.

so why did you make this thread vortex? you do realize you are complaining about an ability that is easy to counter, and that, if nerfed, would make a weapon utterly useless save for snaring and interrupting people?

Tell you what, I will make a deal with you, but you wont like it.

IF you nerf snipe to do half the damage it does now, then I want snipe made unblockable. If it does garbage damage, I want all that damage getting thru. I already have my survivablity at almost non-existent to make the ability work. if it gets nerfed in half, I want it to be able to retain what little effectiveness it would have, that wyay I would eb able to contribute to the battlle, even if it was a minuscule amount of contribution.

you can keep it dodgable, I will be lenient in that regard.

Well hehe I've gotta admit saying 50% was an exaggeration, and I made this thread based on a discussion some people were having in Craglorn this morning because I was bored

I honestly think...maybe a 20%-30% damage reduction would be fair since I did say it should apply a Major Fracture debuff. And again Im not complaining....My complaints usually don't come with giving skills the ability to apply a debuff on me

Domander · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

well, first keep in mind that a 2 hander gives a lot more weapon damage than a bow, so there is greater damage potential.

Wrecking blow also has a hard stun attached to it and a damage buff for the next attack. Snope is only a debuff.

Snipe is easily dodged, and a shield will block more damage because its a projectile. Snipe is also interruptable, and reflectable.

Snipe from stealth also has a stun attatched to it, and wreckingblow is just as easily dodged, you can pretty much walk through the person using wreckingblow and the skill will miss. And like I said above, whats the point of a skill being interuptable when it can be casted out of the range of any ranged interrupt or gap closer

Well, any stealth attack stuns, and by dodge I mean during its flight time, and it can also be LOS'd. The range is definitely an advantage of Snipe, but it is situational.

Xael · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

@Xael Sorry didn't want to quote that because it would take up so much space...

Everytime I get on my horse to ride between keeps I slot radiant mage light so I guess Im not one the ignorant people?

And please don't call this a rant...I have nothing against the skill...Im just looking at it and its mechanics (if I wrote something about fear that would be a rant because... just..don't get me started on fear). I was just looking at Snipe and comparing it to other skills currently available in the game... Even Crystal Fragments its closest ranged skill damage wise doesn't have the same range as snipe, crystal fragments which is also interuptable, and speaking of snipe, the fact that its range is longer than most interupts doesn't help much either.

This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

This here is an example of what Im getting at, as much as most people don't like the way these people choose to play (1 or 2 shotting most people) they have to do so from close range, they have to get right up behind who ever they're planning to hit. Yet when I PvP, too often do I see people sitting on a wall in perfect safety being able to get the same burst out.

And no offense but your comment seemed more like a rant than anything else.

By the way guys...sorry for that comment calling snipers cowards..I'd ask for that to be deleted if it was possible

It does look like a rant because of the reasons I mentioned which can and often make Snipe obsolete. If there were not so many ignorant players getting gibbed by it, less people would use it. I don't have a problem with people sniping from walls. I can see the animation and dodge it. I don't have a problem with them just as I don't have a problem with a ballista that does 1500000000 damage to my scrawny ass (bosmer vamp).

When I or Pixy play our sorc's we do upwards of *insert ridiculous number* here. (Would love to say but don't want nerf sorc thread... again) Hell, I got blown up by Heritage Monk last night before I had time to react. Same goes with other people who are known to be good DKs or Templars.

At the end of the day, Snipe has tons of counters. There are a lot things you can do to avoid getting gibbed by it. First is Radiant Mage Light. There is no way you are dying to snipe with that up unless you go afk, or forget what to do when engaged. If someone is not in stealth and attacking with snipe, just roll dodge, close distance and begin interupting or flat out kill them. It's rather easy. I can't speak for Templars because I don't play them, but Sorcs, DKs, and Nightblades have a few measures they can take to make Snipe a non issue.

Threads like this don't help matters, they only make things worse. You are asking to gut an ability that is fine and make it useless. Hell I don't even use it, but what you are asking for, is simply ludicrous.

vortexman11 wrote: »

Well hehe I've gotta admit saying 50% was an exaggeration, and I made this thread based on a discussion some people were having in Craglorn this morning because I was bored
I honestly think...maybe a 20%-30% damage reduction would be fair since I did say it should apply a Major Fracture debuff. And again Im not complaining....My complaints usually don't come with giving skills the ability to apply a debuff on me

Do you see what I am talking about? You are making a thread asking for a nerf based on conjecture you heard in zone chat? I mean seriously, do you not see the problem with this? You are making an appeal to the developers to change a skill based on idle chit-chat you heard in zone. Moreover you admit your ignorance regarding Stamina bow use in this thread. Do you really feel a person in your position should speak authoritative on this matter? Let alone try and get something changed?

As shown above, there is already a skill that reduces snipe damage by 50%. Yet you are asking for even more... Snipe is fine.

vortexman11 · May 2015

@Xael Last time I checked the forums weren't a place to make an appeal to the developers, they're simply a place to discuss things which happen in game. I never admitted my ignorance regarding stamina bow users I simply overlooked one passive which someone happened to bring up, stated I haven't ran a stamina build in a while (as in two weeks if thats enough to make me ignorant) the moment 1.6 went live on the servers I ran a stamina build with a bow and a two handed sword, even on PTS I ran that build and in 1.5 I switched between a stamina build DK and a Magicka build DK almost daily. It was only about a month and a half ago that I decided to stop with my stamina build. In that time of playing a stamina build I tested many ways just to see how insanely high you could stack the damage of skills like wreckingblow and snipe. Im not ignorant, but if you see me as such I wont argue.

I post this stuff because I want to hear what people have to say about it, I don't post things expecting anything to change, I just want to read what people have to say about it, the problem is the fact that some people have strong feelings about this skill and they may have been drawn here to make useless comments such as whoever posted

"Snipe is for cowards and i think the range is way to long and the fact that you can re-enter stealth after using it at max range is a little wrong"

I expected that to happen so I just ignored it and moved on to read more constructive comments like yours...only to be faced with someone calling me ignorant for wanting to stir up a discussion on a skill that I hear alot of talk about in game, but not much of on the forums.

I will now go sit in a corner as I do not have any knowledge of what Im talking about.

Cody · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ok, I guess this is going to be a short one, here I go.

99% of us complain on a daily basis about how overpowered wreckingblow is, and this isn't a post to defend wreckingblow or anything, Im just mentioning it. But lets talk about snipe. This skill has a 48 meter range in Cyrodiil which can be increased using sets, skills, and passives. It is also one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Just for a reference, I'm not a stamina build and have no points in these skills right now, and these are their tooltip damages:
Snipe- 4284
Uppercut- 4141

As you can see from just the base tooltip damage, snipe hits harder than wreckingblow. Why is it that the skill in the game with the greatest range is also one of the, if not the most damaging skill? How does this make sense? Snipe is pretty much the equivalent of someone hitting you with a wreckingblow from almost 50 meters away...

Now lets look at destro staffs and their abilities (This is not a magicka VS stamina post). We have certain skills which I consider equivalent:
Destructive Touch and Scatter Shot
Wall of Elements and Arrow Spray
ForceShock and Poison Arrow
Impulse and Volley

This only leaves two skills left, Weakness to Elements and...Snipe. Lets look at Weakness to Elements for a second, its a skill which is basically a debuff that allows you to do more damage against people you casted it on. Now lets look at the morphs of snipe, one is an armour debuff allowing the caster to do more damage along with a buff to the range of all bow attacks, the other is a healing debuff. The secondary effects of snipe are all good to me, its the damage that I think is a problem, I'd like to propose a new revamped snipe along with its morphs.

Snipe - Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds.

Lethal Arrow -Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Poison Damage and applying the poison status effect. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Defile which reduces the enemy's Healing by 30% for 10 seconds.

Focused Aim-Plant a masterfully aimed arrow in an enemy's vital spot, dealing 2142 Physical Damage and marking the target. Also afflicts the enemy with Major Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 5120 for 12 seconds. Also afflicts the enemy with Minor Fracture which reduces the enemy's Armor by 960 for 10 seconds. The mark increases the range from which the enemy can be hit by Bow attacks by 5 meters. It lasts 10 seconds.

Basically what I proposed halves the damage of snipe and its morphs, while providing a debuff to armour along with the debuffs/range buff they had previously. This would still be the hardest hitting bow skill, but it wont be the equivalent of tossing a two handed sword at someones face...

I lied about this being short. If you read all the way to this point...thanks I guess.

I see a lot of whining in this forum on a regular basis.
"THIS SKILL IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
"THAT CLASS IS TOO STRONG, NERF IT."
Those are some of the common denominators of almost every thread. The most common denominators would be the myopic view and profound ignorance of those usually complaining.

Newsflash. While you meander blindly through your explanation of why this skill should be nerfed, it is noteworthy you leave out the ways to defend against this ability that are already in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/SS1Ls3V.jpg (if you can't read it)
Imagine that. A first tier skill with a level 1 morph. Even lowbies have access. Wait a second... it even helps those around you?

Game is hard...

You also forgot to mention it can be dodged (passively and roll), blocked, absorbed, interrupted, and juked by terrain. In fact it can ridiculously hard to land a proper snipe as most players that are not complete fools keep moving and change position resulting in cancels or changes from distal to anterior ends. This is why a lot of good stealthers such as myself, kerviz, or sunshine don't even bother with snipe or bows for that matter. In fact a well placed Heavy Attack opener not only frees up a skill slot, it is highly mobile and leaves room for error correction.

One major problem with your rant, you are talking about sneak attack damage. Outside of sneak this skill is crap against a player who knows how to PvP. Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, etc, all cancel this. More importantly you can do all of what I mentioned in the paragraph above. That said, there is an ability that negates 50% of the problematic damage you are complaining about making your entire write up moot.

I understand that the majority of the people whining in these threads miss 1.5 where they can blend into the masses and pretend they are good.
The 1.5 meta allowed so many players to stay alive longer because burst was no longer an issue due to everyone using full impen, resto, 1hshield and light armor builds. This allowed average and even poor pvpers to soak up damage run around with their groups and live for a long time through various fights.

Seriously though, there are ways to defend against snipe, uppercut and various other Stamina skills. The problem is you guys. You are not only ignorant on these methods, you are lazy and do not wish to comply. Oh it's fine and dandy when you are the ones killing everyone, but when the tables turn and you find yourself dying, you remove yourself from the equation and blame the skill, class, or ttk. It's pathetic.

I agree with @DDuke (decimus, sup bro). Your view does suffer from misinformation and a bit of peevish feelings on the matter.

Garion wrote: »

Bows have always been too strong. ZOS didn't do bugger all about it in 1.5 though, so I don't see them doing much about it in 1.6 either. Nonetheless, take an 'agree'.

Horsesh*t. Snipe got nerfed sometime around 1.5 In fact it did substantially less damage and they made it so you could not weave into medium attack / poison arrow predicated on the snipe via animation clipping. So yes, they did. While on the flipside they tweaked other aspects making it more useful instead of a *use one time opener*.

I am not singling anyone out. I am talking about all of you. These boards are rife with *insert catch phrase, an honest look, or can we take a moment* threads that pretend to speak objectively about balance or speak for the goodness of PvP... Spare me the pretense. Just like the first 6 months of PvP the majority of you don't know wtf to do. 1.5 spoiled the hell out of you guys and put you in a comfort zone of lukewarm pigeonholed PvP. Now that the sheltering hand of stagnant 1.5 is gone you are all in full panic mode. It's ridiculous.

Thread after thread exacerbating the PvP situation based on myopia and general ignorance. This sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I would not be such a jerk about it, but i agree:)

To each his own.
I disagree though, stuff like this needs a firm backhand. It's out of control.

trust me, i fully understand. People were calling snipe OP back in 1.5 when LA players using a shield were virtually unkillable. yeah, snipe is OP as fudge, but the robe wearing invincible high damage causing magicka players are totally fine......

People will not stop complaining about snipe until it does 0.1 points of damage.

As a reflect spamming DK snipe doesn't usually bother me, it has virtually no effect on my build or my play style so that has nothing to do with me making this thread... And Cody I didn't mention said class that wears light armour and hits like a truck because everytime I do it turns into a nerf _____ thread... And snipe was never OP in 1.5, what was OP is 100+% healing debuffs (so debuffed that not even cleanse which is supposed to take the debuff off and heal me didn't even heal me..)

OK, so you already use one of the counters.... therefore snipe has no affect on you.

so why did you make this thread vortex? you do realize you are complaining about an ability that is easy to counter, and that, if nerfed, would make a weapon utterly useless save for snaring and interrupting people?

Tell you what, I will make a deal with you, but you wont like it.

IF you nerf snipe to do half the damage it does now, then I want snipe made unblockable. If it does garbage damage, I want all that damage getting thru. I already have my survivablity at almost non-existent to make the ability work. if it gets nerfed in half, I want it to be able to retain what little effectiveness it would have, that wyay I would eb able to contribute to the battlle, even if it was a minuscule amount of contribution.

you can keep it dodgable, I will be lenient in that regard.

Well hehe I've gotta admit saying 50% was an exaggeration, and I made this thread based on a discussion some people were having in Craglorn this morning because I was bored
I honestly think...maybe a 20%-30% damage reduction would be fair since I did say it should apply a Major Fracture debuff. And again Im not complaining....My complaints usually don't come with giving skills the ability to apply a debuff on me

with all due respect vortex; if you want to discuss snipe, you need to converse with me, or someone else who has been using the ability since its development. I dont mean any disrespect toward the craglorn peeps,but you cant make up a thread all because random people in zone chat disliked the ability.

now, again, snipe is the only hard hitting ability in the bow skill line. It already cant get thru damage shields(it really cant unless its from stealth, it takes too long to fire and does to little damage in straight up combat) so you nerfing it even 20-30% is far too much, and would make the ability worthless.

However, my words mean nothing im sure. so I highly advise you grab a bow and try to take on ANY DPS race boss in any of the vet dungeons(maybe even the regular dungeons), or try this supposedly "easy and cowardly" snipe play style that everyone seems to hate. you cant kill a player just by spamming snipe unless they literally stand there and let you kill them without resistance. You have to work in other abilities, with VERY precise timing(much like curse in fact) to get it to work; and again, you have to devote your build almost fully to damage to make this ability work. ONE screw up, and you will either die, be forced to get out a melee weapon, or be forced to retreat.

Im sorry if you do not like snipe, and if you dont like bow in general, but bow is under performing right now, and snipe is really the only hard hitting ability bows have. You nerf snipe, bows lose their one hard hitting ability, and bows become useless.

Domander · May 2015

There is a change I would like to see.... and that's the bonus damage for a sneak attack being limited to one attack, instead of how ever many hits/attacks you can do while still stealth.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · May 2015

I die from wrecking blow 8 to 10 times more often than from snipe attacks.

You can produce all the theoretical numbers you want but in the reality of the game snipe is insignificant compared to wrecking blow.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · May 2015

Id take a snipe damage nerf if it was buffed to hit through shields, block and roll. I dont use it to 1 shot anyways so that would be OK with me. I like to use it to take down mvps. My only problem is shields making sorcs untouchable to snipe.

WRX · May 2015

I have little to argue about this.

But if I see any of you defending this complaining about class nerfs, dont.

You have been warned.

Lava_Croft · May 2015

WRX wrote: »

I have little to argue about this.

But if I see any of you defending this complaining about class nerfs, dont.

You have been warned.

Don't forget that a lot of people seem think that certain weapon skills are tied to a certain class.

Dositheus · May 2015

Funny thing, I stopped using Snipe on my bow bar long ago. Heavy attack is better utility and frees up a slot. Honestly, the only reason I even have a bow bar is for the speed boost after a dodge roll utility, and to a lesser degree poison injection as a finisher DoT. I'm highly pondering just getting rid of that all together though, no other bow abilities are worth it.

Curragraigue · May 2015

Because devs play DK and they have flappy flaps so they don't notice projectile damage

I agree with you a knock down from lethal with the damage of 13k -17k with crit for a hit from range has always seemed unbalanced to me.

Dositheus · May 2015

Curragraigue wrote: »

Because devs play DK and they have flappy flaps so they don't notice projectile damage

I agree with you a knock down from lethal with the damage of 13k -17k with crit for a hit from range has always seemed unbalanced to me.

I'd prefer a 13 to 17k crit from stealth from snipe coming my way, than a 13 to 25k crystal frags crit that will knock me down whether from stealth or not. Not that either really need too much change frankly. I've just had to adjust my tactics. At least you can slot 1 skill to negate the damage from a stealth snipe.

Teargrants · May 2015

I just want the whooshing sound from snipe casts to come back and actually play when it's in the air instead of after I'm hit.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · May 2015

Good god no more Snipe nerfs please. Selective memory for all the times Snipe owned you and discounting the times it didn't do ***. People who use Snipe regularly know what a pain it is to get consistency with Snipe damage and kills. Bow sustained PvE DPS is already suffering enough and does not need any changes because of Cyrodiil burst damage.

kijima · May 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

I just want the whooshing sound from snipe casts to come back and actually play when it's in the air instead of after I'm hit.

Nerf Sorcs!