Sick of being a paper target for 1s kills

Ifthir_ESO · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

@Ezareth CU Beta this August

Yeah I'll check it out. I have The Witcher 3 coming in 12 days and Starcraft II Legacy of the Void beta to play until then.

Im also eager to see what W3 is like.

Snit · May 2015

TheBucket wrote: »

I wish we could have 1.5 back

1.6 fixed far more than it broke. The problem is that they released it, then immediately began a four-month hiatus from the live version of TESO to concentrate solely on the console release.

Assuming they can fix the server issues (can they?), I think we're pretty close to a much better version of Cyrodiil. Unfortunately, that may have to wait until fall.

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2015

TheBucket wrote: »

I wish we could have 1.5 back

I don't. That meta was tired, ridiculous, and equally as bad.

I wish they'd done a much better job of making 1.6 fun and balanced.

Huntler · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

*I Think healing from 1-100% in 1s is just as ridiculous as killing from 100-0 in 1s. a reduction on both sides would create more gamesmanship.*

On second thought that's a bit of a stretch on my part, tho BoL is extremely strong

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

I agreed with all this until you said healing is too high! Since when is healing too high? Healing for Sorcs got nerfed bigtime with 1.6, but wards and most forms of damage got huge buffs. Only the Destruction staff skills got nerfed, everything else does massive damage. Add that to the fact that potion cooldowns got extended by 50%, and I don't see how anyone could claim healing is OP right now.

If anything, healing (especially Resto staff) needs a BUFF, not a nerf.

Any instant heal offered by this game is horribly unbalanced and needs to be nerfed (for pvp atleast) just as harsh as burst dmg (for grp combat).
Currently spamming healing ward or bol by one person can void the dmg of 2 to 3 dds when you figure in cc. The problem with heals this strong (i´m not against them per se but with esos healing system) is smart heal. It takes nothing but 11111111 on the healer and there is nothing the DDs can do to counter the healspam (especially target switches are a nonfactor in eso).

This

BOL is one of the few abilities in the game that you can't spam to infinity. You sure can spam any of the high damage abilities these days. And 1 BOL does NOT = 1-100%, don't know wth you're talking about. BOL is instant, but ever since 1.6 has both an animation cast time as well as an extra GCD that ZOS has come out and said is unintended.

Healing only got nerfed in 1.6, no buffs. Damage got buffed.... are you people really complaining about healing in this game with the ridiculous TTK right now? I'm kind of dumbfounded.... Lets not even speak of heal debuffs at the moment because its absolutely your fault if you aren't using them. Damage > healing in this game, its bad enough as is, but you want healing to be nerfed more? If damage > healing in equal scenarios, there is no reason to play a healer. Its always a knife's edge problem, why play a healer when of equal levels 1 dps beats 1 healer. There is no reason to do it. A good dps should beat a bad healer, bad dps shouldn't even get close to a good healer. Etc.

As for quoting "this" there absolutely are several counters to healers spamming 1111111. Maybe instead of you dps spamming 11111111, you spam 111211113111 (seriously don't talk to me about spamming 1 button, this game is all a 1 button wonder for everything and if you can't beat 1 healer spamming BOL, the healer isn't the problem)? CC and heal debuffs are both quite powerful counters to healers given how fast it is to die right now. How disgustingly biased are you to claim there are no counters to healing? Its in the name of the freaking ability, HEAL DEBUFF.

I must have missed where a singer healer was unkillable these days or small groups with a healer were unkillable. Heals being too strong... lol. The only thing unkillable because of healing is a zerg in which case its not the healing thats the problem.

Disgusting bias is disgusting. 2-3 dps countered by 1 healer? Yeah the strength of heals isn't your problem.

What if I told you BOL got a 20% flat heal nerf alongside an extra low health 5% nerf?

Resto staff master passive no longer affected templar heals in 1.6, thats a 5% effectiveness nerf to heals
Next, in PvP healing is nerfed by 15%
Next, templar mending passive went from giving up to 30% extra crit on low health targets (15% healing effectiveness bump) to a giving just a 10% healing effectiveness bump on low health targets

Well to be fair a lot of this is offset with champion points.

One only needs to watch Teapots latest PvP video where Winnie is literally tanking 5 DPS for some time while his team picks off 1 person and then the next etc. We've all seen it. I've seen a templar tanking 5 sorcs for some time as well. Hell Cinn and I almost won a 2 v 6 last night while she kept us both up against a group of players who were all much higher level than us. If the stupid synergy for nova ever would have popped for me we might have came out with a win on that fight. Healing is extremely powerful right now but I don't think it is OP. I do feel it is somehow stronger than it was in 1.5 from my experiences but I can't really put my finger on what it is since I know nothing about healing.

Its absolutely possible, I imagine the video has her in that small man tank build played around with. Its reasonable and gets you close to infinite spam BOL because of 4k magicka regen. It has its weaknesses too. Healing in many ways got stronger in 1.6 as well (previously I only mentioned the nerfs), but all of these are proportional with damage. The champ system for healing gave the same to damage (and even heal debuffs). So I left things like more regen, more effectiveness from healing because all of these went to damage as well. Healing can be strong in the right hands, the problem is you look like a god when you are up against bad players who either don't know how to focus, or counter a decent healer, so immediately everyone cries well I can't kill this guy so healing must be OP. People in MMOs (read as dps) HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE when they can't kill something. The ultimate troll is to laugh at a dps trying to kill you, fastest way to get called a hacker fun fact.

My counterpoints were only to state that healing is most definitely not overpowering damage at the moment, very far from it. I have my own ideas on where healing should go (including changing healing springs to give it the wall of elements treatment, aka only having 1 up at a time), but nerfing it at the moment is absolutely not the way to go. Especially given the current damage numbers people are able to reach.

Ifthir_ESO · May 2015

5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

Yeah the only lame way I really die with 0 commands is when I die to snipe command stackers

Huntler · May 2015

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

Yeah the only lame way I really die with 0 commands is when I die to snipe command stackers

My biggest death is probably CC break unresponsiveness, or charge spam from like 10 players.... unresponsiveness in general of different mechanics really... this past weekend freakin Davanaro or whatever his name popped from stealth while I was on a horse with full stam.... was spamming dismount for 5 freakin seconds as he hit me with frags and a meteor.... wouldn't dismount and then finally knocked me off.... I raged so hard.

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

Yeah the only lame way I really die with 0 commands is when I die to snipe command stackers

My biggest death is probably CC break unresponsiveness, or charge spam from like 10 players.... unresponsiveness in general of different mechanics really... this past weekend freakin Davanaro or whatever his name popped from stealth while I was on a horse with full stam.... was spamming dismount for 5 freakin seconds as he hit me with frags and a meteor.... wouldn't dismount and then finally knocked me off.... I raged so hard.

I despise the new dismount animation.

The CC break responsiveness has also been damn near horrific. I cannot count the number of times my toon with 49K spell resist and 25K physical resist has been shredded in moments due to a CC (usually fear or fossilize) that I can't break quickly enough to not get hit by an empowered something or other (Wrecking Blow 9/10ths of the time).

With how sluggish the controls of this game can be, that ZOS has allowed the speed at which you can die to speed up so intensely is making the top end pvp of this game less and less fun.

Should I discuss dying to culled spell effects from meteors and even Dragon Leaps that don't show on my corpse until after I'm staring at a smoking body?

Ezareth · May 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Healing can be strong in the right hands, the problem is you look like a god when you are up against bad players who either don't know how to focus, or counter a decent healer, so immediately everyone cries well I can't kill this guy so healing must be OP. People in MMOs (read as dps) HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE when they can't kill something. The ultimate troll is to laugh at a dps trying to kill you, fastest way to get called a hacker fun fact.

My counterpoints were only to state that healing is most definitely not overpowering damage at the moment, very far from it. I have my own ideas on where healing should go (including changing healing springs to give it the wall of elements treatment, aka only having 1 up at a time), but nerfing it at the moment is absolutely not the way to go. Especially given the current damage numbers people are able to reach.

Definitely agree with this.

Huntler wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

Yeah the only lame way I really die with 0 commands is when I die to snipe command stackers

My biggest death is probably CC break unresponsiveness, or charge spam from like 10 players.... unresponsiveness in general of different mechanics really... this past weekend freakin Davanaro or whatever his name popped from stealth while I was on a horse with full stam.... was spamming dismount for 5 freakin seconds as he hit me with frags and a meteor.... wouldn't dismount and then finally knocked me off.... I raged so hard.

Yeah that is 90%+ of my deaths anymore. It used to be a lower percentage but I've made several adjustments to my build since 1.6 was released that addressed those concerns. The other 10% or so is me killing myself (Nerf Overload reflects!) and those freaking snipers.

The mount change for me adds insult to the injury of the State of PVP. I used literally bolt/dodge roll off my horse so fast, I'd be on top of the ganker before he had a thought to tuck his tail and try sneaking away. Now it is every I can do not to be dead before I get my first shield up (thankfuly you can normally cast a shield while still mounted).

Domander · May 2015

I hate the word "Meta".... it's just effective, especially with the state of the game with nirnhoned. It's kinda fun to fight blobs like this because they don't really do any ranged damage.

siege up.

Saft · May 2015

I like the fact more and more ppl complain about this third person shooter game PVP became latly.

Nerf to burst or incraese of heals and health is needed. Or a skill that can reflect single target stamina skills like shield reflect can on Sorcs projectiles. A reflect i would actually prefer, a good counter to NB gankers and i dunno why its not in yet. Seems like a good fun tactical skill to use.

BoL, Dark cloak and Roll dodging also needs to be tuned down. Incrase cost on first 2, and give dodge roll some counter or incrase cost the more one roll mutiple times in a short timespan.

Yiko · May 2015

Health pool reduction relative to sub 1.6 levels & the removal of soft caps have lead to an unhealthy meta imo.

My biggest gripe with the current meta is the extremely low TTK; I'll focus on stealth play as it clearly exacerbates the issue at hand.

I get the fact that stealth is an integral part of the game. However, it's ludicrous to suggest to players that to counter the capacity of stealthed players to do 25-30k damage reliably in ~1s they should:
A ) Roll a full-tank character
B ) Walk to all destinations, holding block whenever they hear combat music
C ) Have caltrops up wherever you go at all times (lol)

I understand that some players appreciate and enjoy the ganking playstyle, but where should the gankers' advantage lie? Should a ganker's advantage be the capacity to kill the target before he can react, OR should the ganker have the advantage of initiating/forcing the fight at a substantially higher level of health while still allowing for enemy reaction?

What this boils down to is precisely this: should there be practical counterplay to stealth burst? The answer is obvious to me.
Watching Kerviz (sp?) stream his combat style of 2-shotting people with a melee Heavy Attack into a Surprise Attack details the effects of this low TTK meta: the invalidation of a PVP experience on the receiving end of the gank. It is NOT player versus player. I don't see how it's engaging for the ganker, and it's definitely not engaging for the recipient of the blow.

Post 1.6 PVP has made it too easy for strategies that are not skill-reliant to be effective, especially in a group with high numbers. I'm not necessarily saying that every Jesus Beamer or Lethal Arrow spammer is a bad player. I'm saying that the combat style isn't exactly engaging, demanding, or mechanically intensive but still gets more than acceptable results.

It's cool that people set up their build to be glass cannons. I understand opportunity cost. However, I don't see how 15k+ (sometimes upwards of 20k+) abilities, especially at ranged and/or from stealth, are healthy for PVP. At the same time, high resource regen capabilities are also harming the game.

Debate me, bros

TL;DR .. Increase health pool & bring back soft caps

Snit · May 2015

Yiko wrote: »

I get the fact that stealth is an integral part of the game. However, it's ludicrous to suggest to players that to counter the capacity of stealthed players to do 25-30k damage reliably in ~1s they should:
A ) Roll a full-tank character
B ) Walk to all destinations, holding block whenever they hear combat music
C ) Have caltrops up wherever you go at all times

I rarely get ganked, and I do none of those things. Here's what I do, instead:

a) I'm not full magicka -- I have 30 points into Health, and I wear one heavy and one medium
b) My mount is nearly maxxed, so I'm never force-dismounted after the first shot. Also, I avoid areas where ganks are likely. I either take a longer route, or I do walk, or I use detect pots
c) I don't have caltrops at all

If you're a glass cannon riding a mount with 8 stamina and travel expected routes.. then I suspect your experience differs from mine.

Cinnamon_Spider · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

*I Think healing from 1-100% in 1s is just as ridiculous as killing from 100-0 in 1s. a reduction on both sides would create more gamesmanship.*

On second thought that's a bit of a stretch on my part, tho BoL is extremely strong

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

I agreed with all this until you said healing is too high! Since when is healing too high? Healing for Sorcs got nerfed bigtime with 1.6, but wards and most forms of damage got huge buffs. Only the Destruction staff skills got nerfed, everything else does massive damage. Add that to the fact that potion cooldowns got extended by 50%, and I don't see how anyone could claim healing is OP right now.

If anything, healing (especially Resto staff) needs a BUFF, not a nerf.

Any instant heal offered by this game is horribly unbalanced and needs to be nerfed (for pvp atleast) just as harsh as burst dmg (for grp combat).
Currently spamming healing ward or bol by one person can void the dmg of 2 to 3 dds when you figure in cc. The problem with heals this strong (i´m not against them per se but with esos healing system) is smart heal. It takes nothing but 11111111 on the healer and there is nothing the DDs can do to counter the healspam (especially target switches are a nonfactor in eso).

This

BOL is one of the few abilities in the game that you can't spam to infinity. You sure can spam any of the high damage abilities these days. And 1 BOL does NOT = 1-100%, don't know wth you're talking about. BOL is instant, but ever since 1.6 has both an animation cast time as well as an extra GCD that ZOS has come out and said is unintended.

Healing only got nerfed in 1.6, no buffs. Damage got buffed.... are you people really complaining about healing in this game with the ridiculous TTK right now? I'm kind of dumbfounded.... Lets not even speak of heal debuffs at the moment because its absolutely your fault if you aren't using them. Damage > healing in this game, its bad enough as is, but you want healing to be nerfed more? If damage > healing in equal scenarios, there is no reason to play a healer. Its always a knife's edge problem, why play a healer when of equal levels 1 dps beats 1 healer. There is no reason to do it. A good dps should beat a bad healer, bad dps shouldn't even get close to a good healer. Etc.

As for quoting "this" there absolutely are several counters to healers spamming 1111111. Maybe instead of you dps spamming 11111111, you spam 111211113111 (seriously don't talk to me about spamming 1 button, this game is all a 1 button wonder for everything and if you can't beat 1 healer spamming BOL, the healer isn't the problem)? CC and heal debuffs are both quite powerful counters to healers given how fast it is to die right now. How disgustingly biased are you to claim there are no counters to healing? Its in the name of the freaking ability, HEAL DEBUFF.

I must have missed where a singer healer was unkillable these days or small groups with a healer were unkillable. Heals being too strong... lol. The only thing unkillable because of healing is a zerg in which case its not the healing thats the problem.

Disgusting bias is disgusting. 2-3 dps countered by 1 healer? Yeah the strength of heals isn't your problem.

What if I told you BOL got a 20% flat heal nerf alongside an extra low health 5% nerf?

Resto staff master passive no longer affected templar heals in 1.6, thats a 5% effectiveness nerf to heals
Next, in PvP healing is nerfed by 15%
Next, templar mending passive went from giving up to 30% extra crit on low health targets (15% healing effectiveness bump) to a giving just a 10% healing effectiveness bump on low health targets

Well to be fair a lot of this is offset with champion points.

One only needs to watch Teapots latest PvP video where Winnie is literally tanking 5 DPS for some time while his team picks off 1 person and then the next etc. We've all seen it. I've seen a templar tanking 5 sorcs for some time as well. Hell Cinn and I almost won a 2 v 6 last night while she kept us both up against a group of players who were all much higher level than us. If the stupid synergy for nova ever would have popped for me we might have came out with a win on that fight. Healing is extremely powerful right now but I don't think it is OP. I do feel it is somehow stronger than it was in 1.5 from my experiences but I can't really put my finger on what it is since I know nothing about healing.

It all comes back to what you've been saying about regen and unlimited resources. When I'm on my healing bar, I have 5 magic regen bonuses, along with divines on 6 pieces of armor, blue drink, the atronach mundus, and 2 reduce magic cost glyphs. 12% magic regen in CP and a couple points into cost reduction. At level 30 I had my regen up to 1681. Now with level 35 drinks, I'm at 1724. I can use BoL 23 times in a row at last check before I need to wait on regen.

Ezykil · May 2015

Hey, pro advice - BE A SORC

Sumopwr · May 2015

Pro Tip : When giving pro advice use the term "Pro Tip"

Tintinabula · May 2015

I have whitestrakes and my shield doesn't proc if I get hit for roughly 20K. I just die. Maybe its hit or miss.

Ezareth · May 2015

Tintinabula wrote: »

I have whitestrakes and my shield doesn't proc if I get hit for roughly 20K. I just die. Maybe its hit or miss.

Vampire Undeath works in the same way. You have to actually reach the threshold before it will proc.

cozmon3c_ESO · May 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

whats your defense against high burst players from stealth then, like kerviz? i would really like to know as you need to have regen and weapon damage, but stamina sorc seems to have a tough time at reaching even that while having enough points or skill slots to save you from this burst damage if you want to even compete with actually hurting peoples health bar.

cozmon3c_ESO · May 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

*I Think healing from 1-100% in 1s is just as ridiculous as killing from 100-0 in 1s. a reduction on both sides would create more gamesmanship.*

On second thought that's a bit of a stretch on my part, tho BoL is extremely strong

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

I agreed with all this until you said healing is too high! Since when is healing too high? Healing for Sorcs got nerfed bigtime with 1.6, but wards and most forms of damage got huge buffs. Only the Destruction staff skills got nerfed, everything else does massive damage. Add that to the fact that potion cooldowns got extended by 50%, and I don't see how anyone could claim healing is OP right now.

If anything, healing (especially Resto staff) needs a BUFF, not a nerf.

Any instant heal offered by this game is horribly unbalanced and needs to be nerfed (for pvp atleast) just as harsh as burst dmg (for grp combat).
Currently spamming healing ward or bol by one person can void the dmg of 2 to 3 dds when you figure in cc. The problem with heals this strong (i´m not against them per se but with esos healing system) is smart heal. It takes nothing but 11111111 on the healer and there is nothing the DDs can do to counter the healspam (especially target switches are a nonfactor in eso).

This

BOL is one of the few abilities in the game that you can't spam to infinity. You sure can spam any of the high damage abilities these days. And 1 BOL does NOT = 1-100%, don't know wth you're talking about. BOL is instant, but ever since 1.6 has both an animation cast time as well as an extra GCD that ZOS has come out and said is unintended.

Healing only got nerfed in 1.6, no buffs. Damage got buffed.... are you people really complaining about healing in this game with the ridiculous TTK right now? I'm kind of dumbfounded.... Lets not even speak of heal debuffs at the moment because its absolutely your fault if you aren't using them. Damage > healing in this game, its bad enough as is, but you want healing to be nerfed more? If damage > healing in equal scenarios, there is no reason to play a healer. Its always a knife's edge problem, why play a healer when of equal levels 1 dps beats 1 healer. There is no reason to do it. A good dps should beat a bad healer, bad dps shouldn't even get close to a good healer. Etc.

As for quoting "this" there absolutely are several counters to healers spamming 1111111. Maybe instead of you dps spamming 11111111, you spam 111211113111 (seriously don't talk to me about spamming 1 button, this game is all a 1 button wonder for everything and if you can't beat 1 healer spamming BOL, the healer isn't the problem)? CC and heal debuffs are both quite powerful counters to healers given how fast it is to die right now. How disgustingly biased are you to claim there are no counters to healing? Its in the name of the freaking ability, HEAL DEBUFF.

I must have missed where a singer healer was unkillable these days or small groups with a healer were unkillable. Heals being too strong... lol. The only thing unkillable because of healing is a zerg in which case its not the healing thats the problem.

Disgusting bias is disgusting. 2-3 dps countered by 1 healer? Yeah the strength of heals isn't your problem.

What if I told you BOL got a 20% flat heal nerf alongside an extra low health 5% nerf?

Resto staff master passive no longer affected templar heals in 1.6, thats a 5% effectiveness nerf to heals
Next, in PvP healing is nerfed by 15%
Next, templar mending passive went from giving up to 30% extra crit on low health targets (15% healing effectiveness bump) to a giving just a 10% healing effectiveness bump on low health targets

i think the healing is fine, the issue is that the smart healing of BoL takes no skill what so ever to sit there and spam it over and over. i think BoL needs to be a frontal cone ability so the healer actually has to position themselves and aim to maximize this abilities healing potential. in turn would take skill to be an awesome suace healer instead of just spamming it and hitting everyone in your radius no matter what. it would make a good healer actually stand out and how skilled a player they really are.

FENGRUSH · May 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

whats your defense against high burst players from stealth then, like kerviz? i would really like to know as you need to have regen and weapon damage, but stamina sorc seems to have a tough time at reaching even that while having enough points or skill slots to save you from this burst damage if you want to even compete with actually hurting peoples health bar.

You cant put 62 points into stam in the way magicka sorcs can put 62 in magicka. One must invest points into survival, and if they dont, theyre going to find themselves being picked off by the bursty builds. If the bursty builds fail to close quick kills, they will find themselves out of resources rather quickly.

FENGRUSH has slain people in this thread and know some of them are guilty of low health specs, and others have plenty of health, just lack of awareness/reaction.

Only real issues with quick burst kills is the delay in breaking CCs. Fear and petrify seem to be the only 2 CCs that have an inherent delay. Fears is just delayed and has a smoother break, whereas petrify is a clunky break regardless. But FENGRUSH is confident ZOS is aware of these issues and should have a quick fix in within the next 4-6months.

Emma_Overload · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Softcap regen at 1500

No way, Jose!

1) Mobs hit so hard now that you need to be able to use CCs and escape spells (e.g. Ball of Lightning) VERY frequently in order to stay alive. This is not possible without high regen.

2) The whole point of the Champion System is to give players a way to "progress" their characters with incremental stat improvements. Softcaps on any of those stats would destroy the incentive to keep grinding for CP.

cozmon3c_ESO · May 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

whats your defense against high burst players from stealth then, like kerviz? i would really like to know as you need to have regen and weapon damage, but stamina sorc seems to have a tough time at reaching even that while having enough points or skill slots to save you from this burst damage if you want to even compete with actually hurting peoples health bar.

You cant put 62 points into stam in the way magicka sorcs can put 62 in magicka. One must invest points into survival, and if they dont, theyre going to find themselves being picked off by the bursty builds. If the bursty builds fail to close quick kills, they will find themselves out of resources rather quickly.

FENGRUSH has slain people in this thread and know some of them are guilty of low health specs, and others have plenty of health, just lack of awareness/reaction.

Only real issues with quick burst kills is the delay in breaking CCs. Fear and petrify seem to be the only 2 CCs that have an inherent delay. Fears is just delayed and has a smoother break, whereas petrify is a clunky break regardless. But FENGRUSH is confident ZOS is aware of these issues and should have a quick fix in within the next 4-6months.

well i dont have all point into stam, i have about 20 in health and 40 in stam, 1 health trait putting me around 18k-20k hp and 22k stam (with bound armor) and kerviz is still bursting for well over 30k each time, you cannot react to it because you dont know he is coming, i dont run with a group like you do, most the time. defensive rune doesnt even work because if i stun him and starge escaping, he ambush fears and bursts again.

tell me your strategy to even survive this kind of burst play, i dont even think full tank builds can. i cannot give up damage for more survivability or you dont hurt anyone as a stam sorc (i know from experience because i tried to be a more regen build and hit everything like a wet noodle).

Oughash · May 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Softcap regen at 1500

No way, Jose!

1) Mobs hit so hard now that you need to be able to use CCs and escape spells (e.g. Ball of Lightning) VERY frequently in order to stay alive. This is not possible without high regen.

2) The whole point of the Champion System is to give players a way to "progress" their characters with incremental stat improvements. Softcaps on any of those stats would destroy the incentive to keep grinding for CP.

1. This is the pvp forum and I don't give 2 cents about mobs. The PvE in this game is faceroll easy and 95% of it can be accomplished with no armor or weapons.
2. I think the CP system is terrible. It scales linearly after the first 30 or so points! The gulf between new and veteran players will widen dramatically in the next few months. Softcaps on stats will significantly diminish this gap.

FENGRUSH · May 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH never dies to 1 hits.

You guys might need to get a bit faster at the keyboard level.

whats your defense against high burst players from stealth then, like kerviz? i would really like to know as you need to have regen and weapon damage, but stamina sorc seems to have a tough time at reaching even that while having enough points or skill slots to save you from this burst damage if you want to even compete with actually hurting peoples health bar.

You cant put 62 points into stam in the way magicka sorcs can put 62 in magicka. One must invest points into survival, and if they dont, theyre going to find themselves being picked off by the bursty builds. If the bursty builds fail to close quick kills, they will find themselves out of resources rather quickly.

FENGRUSH has slain people in this thread and know some of them are guilty of low health specs, and others have plenty of health, just lack of awareness/reaction.

Only real issues with quick burst kills is the delay in breaking CCs. Fear and petrify seem to be the only 2 CCs that have an inherent delay. Fears is just delayed and has a smoother break, whereas petrify is a clunky break regardless. But FENGRUSH is confident ZOS is aware of these issues and should have a quick fix in within the next 4-6months.

well i dont have all point into stam, i have about 20 in health and 40 in stam, 1 health trait putting me around 18k-20k hp and 22k stam (with bound armor) and kerviz is still bursting for well over 30k each time, you cannot react to it because you dont know he is coming, i dont run with a group like you do, most the time. defensive rune doesnt even work because if i stun him and starge escaping, he ambush fears and bursts again.

tell me your strategy to even survive this kind of burst play, i dont even think full tank builds can. i cannot give up damage for more survivability or you dont hurt anyone as a stam sorc (i know from experience because i tried to be a more regen build and hit everything like a wet noodle).

FENGRUSH does not tell His secrets to becoming ultimate warrior. FENGRUSH doesnt rely on a group to survive burst either!

Trayyacakes · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

If they don´t have a way to kill you in a matter of seconds, how should they be able to kill you at all if a simple block or shield is already enough?
Just saying.. even if i don´t like this snipe oneshot thing.

Increase the effectiveness of passive mitigation (armor and spell resistance, not counting people stacking nirnhoned) while decreasing the effectiveness of active mitigation (block, dodge, and damage shields.)

decrease healing along with burst damage, not as much as burst though.

Put diminishing return on stats so you can't have seemingly infinite resources.

There are ways to up TTK without making players immortal. It won't happen though because it would require constant light handed adjustments when builds pop up that exceed expectations. Something that we know ZOS isn't capable of.

Emma_Overload · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Softcap regen at 1500

No way, Jose!

1) Mobs hit so hard now that you need to be able to use CCs and escape spells (e.g. Ball of Lightning) VERY frequently in order to stay alive. This is not possible without high regen.

2) The whole point of the Champion System is to give players a way to "progress" their characters with incremental stat improvements. Softcaps on any of those stats would destroy the incentive to keep grinding for CP.

1. This is the pvp forum and I don't give 2 cents about mobs.

I know you don't, but the problem is that every time ZoS makes a nerf to appease the whining crybabies who got ganked in Cyrodiil, the PvE side of the game gets unbalanced even worse than before... EVERY TIME. So what if 95% of the PvE game is easy? It's that last 5% that everyone is focused on when they get to the endgame.

None of the things you suggested is going to change the reality that PvP is a miserable zero-sum game, where one player has to die for another player to rack up a kill. If you can't handle fighting and dying in Cyrodiil without asking for a bunch of nerfs to accomodate your playstyle, maybe you should come PvE with the rest of us carebears. Nobody will gank your sweetroll, I promise!

Oughash · May 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I know you don't, but the problem is that every time ZoS makes a nerf to appease the whining crybabies who got ganked in Cyrodiil, the PvE side of the game gets unbalanced even worse than before... EVERY TIME. So what if 95% of the PvE game is easy? It's that last 5% that everyone is focused on when they get to the endgame.

None of the things you suggested is going to change the reality that PvP is a miserable zero-sum game, where one player has to die for another player to rack up a kill. If you can't handle fighting and dying in Cyrodiil without asking for a bunch of nerfs to accomodate your playstyle, maybe you should come PvE with the rest of us carebears. Nobody will gank your sweetroll, I promise!

Balance does not matter in a player vs NPC game.

Unfortunately, ZOS designed a PvE game where many class-defining skills are basically pointless. For example, stealth gameplay (NB class-defining skill) is literally pointless when killing mobs or fighting bosses. Who uses Reflective Scales in PvE? How about Eclipse? Do you ever really need to streak as a sorc in PvE? I could go on. Considering how the fights are set up, the only thing that really matters is damage. If your complaint is simply that DPS numbers don't line up, sure you're technically correct.

Jaerlach · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I know you don't, but the problem is that every time ZoS makes a nerf to appease the whining crybabies who got ganked in Cyrodiil, the PvE side of the game gets unbalanced even worse than before... EVERY TIME. So what if 95% of the PvE game is easy? It's that last 5% that everyone is focused on when they get to the endgame.

None of the things you suggested is going to change the reality that PvP is a miserable zero-sum game, where one player has to die for another player to rack up a kill. If you can't handle fighting and dying in Cyrodiil without asking for a bunch of nerfs to accomodate your playstyle, maybe you should come PvE with the rest of us carebears. Nobody will gank your sweetroll, I promise!

Balance does not matter in a player vs NPC game.

Unfortunately, ZOS designed a PvE game where many class-defining skills are basically pointless. For example, stealth gameplay (NB class-defining skill) is literally pointless when killing mobs or fighting bosses. Who uses Reflective Scales in PvE? How about Eclipse? Do you ever really need to streak as a sorc in PvE? I could go on. Considering how the fights are set up, the only thing that really matters is damage. If your complaint is simply that DPS numbers don't line up, sure you're technically correct.

I think you're full of crap, as eclipse, scales and streak all have situational pve uses.

I don't think you've ever done any challenging content to know what you're talking about.

Tankqull · May 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

I agreed with all this until you said healing is too high! Since when is healing too high? Healing for Sorcs got nerfed bigtime with 1.6, but wards and most forms of damage got huge buffs. Only the Destruction staff skills got nerfed, everything else does massive damage. Add that to the fact that potion cooldowns got extended by 50%, and I don't see how anyone could claim healing is OP right now.

If anything, healing (especially Resto staff) needs a BUFF, not a nerf.

Any instant heal offered by this game is horribly unbalanced and needs to be nerfed (for pvp atleast) just as harsh as burst dmg (for grp combat).
Currently spamming healing ward or bol by one person can void the dmg of 2 to 3 dds when you figure in cc. The problem with heals this strong (i´m not against them per se but with esos healing system) is smart heal. It takes nothing but 11111111 on the healer and there is nothing the DDs can do to counter the healspam (especially target switches are a nonfactor in eso).

Lol wut.

he´s actually right - healing with the smart targeting in this game is just to simple without anny need of aiming and awarness on the healers side. incombination with the nerved healing debuffs healing is to strong currently.

Sacadon · May 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Softcap regen at 1500

No way, Jose!

1) Mobs hit so hard now that you need to be able to use CCs and escape spells (e.g. Ball of Lightning) VERY frequently in order to stay alive. This is not possible without high regen.

2) The whole point of the Champion System is to give players a way to "progress" their characters with incremental stat improvements. Softcaps on any of those stats would destroy the incentive to keep grinding for CP.

1. This is the pvp forum and I don't give 2 cents about mobs.

I know you don't, but the problem is that every time ZoS makes a nerf to appease the whining crybabies who got ganked in Cyrodiil, the PvE side of the game gets unbalanced even worse than before... EVERY TIME. So what if 95% of the PvE game is easy? It's that last 5% that everyone is focused on when they get to the endgame.

None of the things you suggested is going to change the reality that PvP is a miserable zero-sum game, where one player has to die for another player to rack up a kill. If you can't handle fighting and dying in Cyrodiil without asking for a bunch of nerfs to accomodate your playstyle, maybe you should come PvE with the rest of us carebears. Nobody will gank your sweetroll, I promise!

^^ not agreeing/disagreeing, just admiring this response. please don't gank my sweetroll.