Removal of Veteran Rank system a definite? Where to read more?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Dodas wrote: »

LOL If you think they will remove vet ranks you are so mistaken. 80% of teso's community are vet 12-14 ranks and they struggled just like me to make it there. We will never allow it. Plus as one guy said , 60% of the story will go wasted. What they gonna do is tweak vet ranks something like 80-90 level cap

Well they've already started the process so I think it's a bit odd to assume otherwise unless we hear something different.

EQBallzz · May 2015

Paulington wrote: »

There are no official words on when it will happen, only that it will happen.

I believe it was in the most recent ESO Live where they said it is definitely happening, just no idea when.

It's not just an idea of when but how. I think some people here are deluded if they think vet levels are just being removed and that's it. Everyone will be an equal level 50 with no other progression to achieve and all the veteran crafting levels and difficulty levels and gear levels will just cease to exist. Sorry but that is a pipe-dream. Even if they did do that it would be horrible for the game. This game has already had the difficulty nerfed into Oblivion..and the crafting system is one of the more positive aspects of the game that remains unspoiled. The last thing this game needs is all the difficulty removed entirely and the crafting system gutted to the point of being a shell of the current system.

The likely scenario will be they change "vet levels" to "regular levels" which would essentially just be raising the cap from 50 to 64 (or 60 or whatever) and then the vet level difficulty and crafting just gets mapped over to the regular levels. The other would be they gate content and crafting behind champ points. In either case they can technically say "they removed vet levels" without gutting the current progression system. It's more of a shell game than what people are expecting, though so I expect there to be large amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth once the details are known.

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2015

What would they do about those 80+ skill points for silver and gold? And the achievements? Will that stuff still be there?

EQBallzz · May 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

What would they do about those 80+ skill points for silver and gold? And the achievements? Will that stuff still be there?

The content will still be there so the achievements would still be there and the skill points. The only difference would be that instead of the zone being for V1 it will likely be for level 51. V2 will be 52..etc.. Or in the fantasy world of some all V1-V14 zones would be the same difficulty of level 50. Craglorn would be level 50. Trials would be level 50. Wow that would be great to be the same level and difficulty through all that content! Oh wait..no it wouldn't.

Tors · May 2015

ZigoSid wrote: »

They confirmed billions times that they would never remove subscription ... and you know how it ended.

I for one would be interested to see that!! No saying you made it up, but I cant find any reference anywhere to anyting like this.

I dont see the issues with having to put a lot of work into gaining each level. Its part of what kept me playing for the last year.

I know its not up for debate, and it is going to happen, but as soon as it does, this game may as well then be an also run.
The children will have their "easy access to max level character" Even though it will just be a VR14 with a different name. They will find that they are a few hundred champ points behind their percieved peers and call for CP accuisition to be increased so they can catch up.

Ley · May 2015

So here's an odd fact. I specifically remembered a couple occasions when and where ZOS addressed the removal of vet ranks. I searched for the statements, to post them in this thread and they were gone, I searched for one of my posts quoting their statement and it was removed as well. It seems like they went back and erased traces of them saying that they plan on removing vet ranks. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but that's a bit fishy. I wonder if they changed their minds.

LtCrunch · May 2015

ZigoSid wrote: »

"They are removing vet ranks, it's been confirmed over and over. Now it's just a question of when."

They confirmed billions times that they would never remove subscription ... and you know how it ended.

Add to that that they added V10 food, attributes points for each VR (I don't think players will be happy if they remove that), that consoles players won't understand why the game is changing 3 months after his release (if it change in 2020 it's useless, it will be sooner or never) etc...

They never, ever said the game would always be subscription-based. They always said that the sub model was the best choice for their vision of what they wanted the game to be and that's it. With vet ranks gone do you really think tiers of gear/consumables will go away? Of course not, quite the contrary considering they want to introduce seasonal gear as well once vet ranks are gone.It's rather simple,all they need to do is assign a different gated requirement to the things you mention.

It may be a resonates after console launch but it's over a year since the game launched originally and nobody is too thick to understand that with an MMO things change constantly. If they are that's on them, not the developers.

LtCrunch · May 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

There are no official words on when it will happen, only that it will happen.

I believe it was in the most recent ESO Live where they said it is definitely happening, just no idea when.

It's not just an idea of when but how. I think some people here are deluded if they think vet levels are just being removed and that's it. Everyone will be an equal level 50 with no other progression to achieve and all the veteran crafting levels and difficulty levels and gear levels will just cease to exist. Sorry but that is a pipe-dream. Even if they did do that it would be horrible for the game. This game has already had the difficulty nerfed into Oblivion..and the crafting system is one of the more positive aspects of the game that remains unspoiled. The last thing this game needs is all the difficulty removed entirely and the crafting system gutted to the point of being a shell of the current system.

The likely scenario will be they change "vet levels" to "regular levels" which would essentially just be raising the cap from 50 to 64 (or 60 or whatever) and then the vet level difficulty and crafting just gets mapped over to the regular levels. The other would be they gate content and crafting behind champ points. In either case they can technically say "they removed vet levels" without gutting the current progression system. It's more of a shell game than what people are expecting, though so I expect there to be large amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth once the details are known.

Nobody is daft enough to think that they will remove everything about vet levels such as gear tiers, attribute points,skill points, etc. They are removing the levels themselves and the champion system is the progression system that replaces them. Likely meaning many things will be tied to champion progression rather than veteran rank progression.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · May 2015

Jando wrote: »

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

Halve the xp to 500xp I'd say, meaning the main story, exploration, dolmens and delves give you enough xp to progress to the next zone. Leaving you to do the other side quests if you want to. Yes Zos will lose real life money on the 50% xp potions they could have sold but think of all the happy vr14's with their gear and experience that hasn't suddenly become a waste of time.

Ley · May 2015

ZigoSid wrote: »

"They are removing vet ranks, it's been confirmed over and over. Now it's just a question of when."

They confirmed billions times that they would never remove subscription ... and you know how it ended.

Add to that that they added V10 food, attributes points for each VR (I don't think players will be happy if they remove that), that consoles players won't understand why the game is changing 3 months after his release (if it change in 2020 it's useless, it will be sooner or never) etc...

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EQBallzz · May 2015

Brandalf wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

There are no official words on when it will happen, only that it will happen.

I believe it was in the most recent ESO Live where they said it is definitely happening, just no idea when.

It's not just an idea of when but how. I think some people here are deluded if they think vet levels are just being removed and that's it. Everyone will be an equal level 50 with no other progression to achieve and all the veteran crafting levels and difficulty levels and gear levels will just cease to exist. Sorry but that is a pipe-dream. Even if they did do that it would be horrible for the game. This game has already had the difficulty nerfed into Oblivion..and the crafting system is one of the more positive aspects of the game that remains unspoiled. The last thing this game needs is all the difficulty removed entirely and the crafting system gutted to the point of being a shell of the current system.

The likely scenario will be they change "vet levels" to "regular levels" which would essentially just be raising the cap from 50 to 64 (or 60 or whatever) and then the vet level difficulty and crafting just gets mapped over to the regular levels. The other would be they gate content and crafting behind champ points. In either case they can technically say "they removed vet levels" without gutting the current progression system. It's more of a shell game than what people are expecting, though so I expect there to be large amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth once the details are known.

Nobody is daft enough to think that they will remove everything about vet levels such as gear tiers, attribute points,skill points, etc. They are removing the levels themselves and the champion system is the progression system that replaces them. Likely meaning many things will be tied to champion progression rather than veteran rank progression.

I beg to differ. Some people assume that the removal of vet ranks means they will suddenly have access to all end game activities such as trials and competitive PvP and vet dungeons. Sounds pretty daft to me.

If vet levels are ever removed people will just be getting a replacement for the progress that vet levels represent..whether it's regular levels or champ points is irrelevant. They will still be required to progress through silver/gold or grind to participate/compete in "end game" activities.

LtCrunch · May 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

There are no official words on when it will happen, only that it will happen.

I believe it was in the most recent ESO Live where they said it is definitely happening, just no idea when.

It's not just an idea of when but how. I think some people here are deluded if they think vet levels are just being removed and that's it. Everyone will be an equal level 50 with no other progression to achieve and all the veteran crafting levels and difficulty levels and gear levels will just cease to exist. Sorry but that is a pipe-dream. Even if they did do that it would be horrible for the game. This game has already had the difficulty nerfed into Oblivion..and the crafting system is one of the more positive aspects of the game that remains unspoiled. The last thing this game needs is all the difficulty removed entirely and the crafting system gutted to the point of being a shell of the current system.

The likely scenario will be they change "vet levels" to "regular levels" which would essentially just be raising the cap from 50 to 64 (or 60 or whatever) and then the vet level difficulty and crafting just gets mapped over to the regular levels. The other would be they gate content and crafting behind champ points. In either case they can technically say "they removed vet levels" without gutting the current progression system. It's more of a shell game than what people are expecting, though so I expect there to be large amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth once the details are known.

Nobody is daft enough to think that they will remove everything about vet levels such as gear tiers, attribute points,skill points, etc. They are removing the levels themselves and the champion system is the progression system that replaces them. Likely meaning many things will be tied to champion progression rather than veteran rank progression.

I beg to differ. Some people assume that the removal of vet ranks means they will suddenly have access to all end game activities such as trials and competitive PvP and vet dungeons. Sounds pretty daft to me.

If vet levels are ever removed people will just be getting a replacement for the progress that vet levels represent..whether it's regular levels or champ points is irrelevant.They will still be required to progress through silver/gold or grind to participate/compete in "end game" activities.

I actually disagree. I believe it's extremely relevant how they go about it. If they choose to deposit all of that required progression to the champion system that means those of us who have already gone through the Silver/Gold content(or have hit V14 on any character) will only be required to level from 1-50 and then have the capability of equipping the top tier of gear as well as be granted our additional attribute points/skill points once we ding level 50. At least that's the way it would work in my perfect scenario. If they just added additional non-veteran levels that would not be the case.

However only time will tell.

GaldorP · May 2015

They said in some recent ESO Live that the removal of veteran ranks is still the plan. That's all the official info I've heard.

maryriv · May 2015

First of all, VR is NOT a grind, it goes away to fast, not quite as fast as 1-50 but still plenty fast enough.

Secondly, no one knows, ZoS is notorious for changing their minds on issues.

We will know better in a few months when console is released and settles down.

Elsonso · May 2015

ZigoSid wrote: »

"They are removing vet ranks, it's been confirmed over and over. Now it's just a question of when."

They confirmed billions times that they would never remove subscription ... and you know how it ended.

Actually, one of the indicators that they were dropping subscriptions was that they stopped confirming it and started deferring in the last few months of 2014.

The fact that they confirmed Vet Rank removal recently eliminates the possibility that, at the time, they were planning to keep them.

I also believe that they don't want Veteran Ranks to be part of the console release only to turn around and remove them a few weeks later. Whether they have a choice and can pull that magic off, or will have to live with Veteran Ranks for a while, remains to be seen but, either way, we will be hearing a LOT about Champion System phase 4 soon.

Yinmaigao · May 2015

I have one major hangup on this possible "new system"

If they gate things behind champion points, who is to know how many champion points someone really has? We can't inspect them, they show the same level as everyone else, and there is no way to review damage meters/combat statistics outside of anyone but yourself. With V14, we have a reasonable understanding of what someone's relative power (especially since all Vet dungeons besides CoA scale to V12). I think there is a great potential to open a can of worms that noone wants to see if this is not implemented properly.

Additionally, I feel if they go this route, it will become even less friendly to new players, and discourage grouping with anyone besides the trusted people you know who can do the content. I don't see many people venturing out and "PUGing" content.

nastuug · May 2015

lakaisl wrote: »

This might not be entirely on topic. But if they get rid of the VR levels, does that mean you can't get the VR costumes after removal of the VR levels? IF so I really need to start grinding to VR 14 xD

@lakaisl Nah. You would just see the costume reassigned to a different form of requirement. All who have it unlocked now would most likely keep it, and others working towards them would then have to complete a different achievement/obtain a specific Champion Level or something.

Naivefanboi · May 2015

Guess they wanna wait till the new console players actually start getti!g into vet ranks, i know thated make me a happy gamer, oh did you hit vr5 -10? Guess whaaaat? Lol

Ley wrote: »

So here's an odd fact. I specifically remembered a couple occasions when and where ZOS addressed the removal of vet ranks. I searched for the statements, to post them in this thread and they were gone, I searched for one of my posts quoting their statement and it was removed as well. It seems like they went back and erased traces of them saying that they plan on removing vet ranks. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but that's a bit fishy. I wonder if they changed their minds.

Lol the good ole no comment routine.

LtCrunch · May 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

I have one major hangup on this possible "new system"

If they gate things behind champion points, who is to know how many champion points someone really has? We can't inspect them, they show the same level as everyone else, and there is no way to review damage meters/combat statistics outside of anyone but yourself. With V14, we have a reasonable understanding of what someone's relative power (especially since all Vet dungeons besides CoA scale to V12). I think there is a great potential to open a can of worms that noone wants to see if this is not implemented properly.

Additionally, I feel if they go this route, it will become even less friendly to new players, and discourage grouping with anyone besides the trusted people you know who can do the content. I don't see many people venturing out and "PUGing" content.

Display the champion rank in place of the veteran rank, problem solved.

Sylvyr · May 2015

As we have learned from ZoS.

Things change.

Even if they have said they will remove vet ranks, can't bank on it till it actually happens.

EQBallzz · May 2015

Brandalf wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

There are no official words on when it will happen, only that it will happen.

I believe it was in the most recent ESO Live where they said it is definitely happening, just no idea when.

It's not just an idea of when but how. I think some people here are deluded if they think vet levels are just being removed and that's it. Everyone will be an equal level 50 with no other progression to achieve and all the veteran crafting levels and difficulty levels and gear levels will just cease to exist. Sorry but that is a pipe-dream. Even if they did do that it would be horrible for the game. This game has already had the difficulty nerfed into Oblivion..and the crafting system is one of the more positive aspects of the game that remains unspoiled. The last thing this game needs is all the difficulty removed entirely and the crafting system gutted to the point of being a shell of the current system.

The likely scenario will be they change "vet levels" to "regular levels" which would essentially just be raising the cap from 50 to 64 (or 60 or whatever) and then the vet level difficulty and crafting just gets mapped over to the regular levels. The other would be they gate content and crafting behind champ points. In either case they can technically say "they removed vet levels" without gutting the current progression system. It's more of a shell game than what people are expecting, though so I expect there to be large amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth once the details are known.

Nobody is daft enough to think that they will remove everything about vet levels such as gear tiers, attribute points,skill points, etc. They are removing the levels themselves and the champion system is the progression system that replaces them. Likely meaning many things will be tied to champion progression rather than veteran rank progression.

I beg to differ. Some people assume that the removal of vet ranks means they will suddenly have access to all end game activities such as trials and competitive PvP and vet dungeons. Sounds pretty daft to me.

If vet levels are ever removed people will just be getting a replacement for the progress that vet levels represent..whether it's regular levels or champ points is irrelevant.They will still be required to progress through silver/gold or grind to participate/compete in "end game" activities.

I actually disagree. I believe it's extremely relevant how they go about it. If they choose to deposit all of that required progression to the champion system that means those of us who have already gone through the Silver/Gold content(or have hit V14 on any character) will only be required to level from 1-50 and then have the capability of equipping the top tier of gear as well as be granted our additional attribute points/skill points once we ding level 50. At least that's the way it would work in my perfect scenario. If they just added additional non-veteran levels that would not be the case.

However only time will tell.

Are you referring to alternate characters? I suppose if that's what you mean then yes there would be a difference. Once you complete all silver/gold on one character the progress in the champ system is account wide so any subsequent characters would benefit from that and you wouldn't be required to redo silver/gold. However, the way XP gain works presently it's still the best way to earn CP as a solo player so until they normalize XP gain across different activities and make grinding, dungeons, trials and PvP all viable sources of XP..silver/gold is still sort of required for progression and if they did that..you wouldn't need to remove vet levels in the first place because you could "progress" by other means if you so desired.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · May 2015

Thanks everyone, so much good information and things to think about - that I had not considered before.

BUllet points I gathered were

Will be quite a while yet before we see this, if we see it
Would have to consider how it affects PVP and PVE together
Shame I started playing again full time now, and not later this year - hopefully I do not reach VR14 several times over before the remove it!! Maybe I should wait!
Hoping with removal/change to VR that we get new open world and dungeon content as alliance restrictions removed for PVE.

Dodas wrote: »

LOL If you think they will remove vet ranks you are so mistaken. 80% of teso's community are vet 12-14 ranks and they struggled just like me to make it there. We will never allow it. Plus as one guy said , 60% of the story will go wasted. What they gonna do is tweak vet ranks something like 80-90 level cap

Tell that to SWG Jedis after NGE....

Elsonso · May 2015

Ley wrote: »

So here's an odd fact. I specifically remembered a couple occasions when and where ZOS addressed the removal of vet ranks. I searched for the statements, to post them in this thread and they were gone, I searched for one of my posts quoting their statement and it was removed as well. It seems like they went back and erased traces of them saying that they plan on removing vet ranks. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but that's a bit fishy. I wonder if they changed their minds.

Over half the time, if you just search the Wisdom from Gina, you will find what you are looking for:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Can dig into this a little more when it's not super late, but we did briefly mention this topic on the last ESO Live. We do still intend to remove Veteran Ranks at some point in the future, though we don't have an ETA. There's a lot of design work that still needs to happen with the removal (it's a lot more than just simply removing them, as they impact a lot of systems!).

Ley · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

So here's an odd fact. I specifically remembered a couple occasions when and where ZOS addressed the removal of vet ranks. I searched for the statements, to post them in this thread and they were gone, I searched for one of my posts quoting their statement and it was removed as well. It seems like they went back and erased traces of them saying that they plan on removing vet ranks. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but that's a bit fishy. I wonder if they changed their minds.

Over half the time, if you just search the Wisdom from Gina, you will find what you are looking for:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Can dig into this a little more when it's not super late, but we did briefly mention this topic on the last ESO Live. We do still intend to remove Veteran Ranks at some point in the future, though we don't have an ETA. There's a lot of design work that still needs to happen with the removal (it's a lot more than just simply removing them, as they impact a lot of systems!).

Good find, it's not the one I was looking for but it works just as well. I looked through her posts, among other places, must have missed it.

Fawlcha · May 2015

There are talks about removing the Veteran system. But nothing else I've heard just yet.

Bati · May 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I'm interested to see how they handle cadwells silver and gold zones

One solution would be to make most of these things account wide - achievements, skyshards, skill points from quests (essentially keep Cadwell's almanach achievements but make them account wide and rewards skill points for every character). Once that is done they could simply remove cadwell's silver and gold to incentivize people to roll alts on other factions or unlock all silver and gold zones for the character who's finished the main storyline but lock them all at level cap.

This system wouldn't really change much for new players but it would greatly reduce the grind required for people who have finished silver and gold.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Is this actually happening? Where can I read more [officially].
And are there any details specifically about cross alliance restrictions being removed for PVE content?

Well from a marketing standpoint start at 2:16 in this video from their Twitter page about console

Pretty much says the adventure starts at level 50!!! When the Champion system begins
There is no mention of the VR levels so it's pretty much not going to be around much longer if this is the marketing commercial for consoles June 9th launch

http://youtu.be/JYxYvQ8ieq4

nastuug · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Is this actually happening? Where can I read more [officially].
And are there any details specifically about cross alliance restrictions being removed for PVE content?

Well from a marketing standpoint start at 2:16 in this video from their Twitter page about console

Pretty much says the adventure starts at level 50!!! When the Champion system begins
There is no mention of the VR levels so it's pretty much not going to be around much longer if this is the marketing commercial for consoles June 9th launch

http://youtu.be/JYxYvQ8ieq4

Or they are just going to keep that little secret locked up until release.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

Is this actually happening? Where can I read more [officially].
And are there any details specifically about cross alliance restrictions being removed for PVE content?

Well from a marketing standpoint start at 2:16 in this video from their Twitter page about console

Pretty much says the adventure starts at level 50!!! When the Champion system begins
There is no mention of the VR levels so it's pretty much not going to be around much longer if this is the marketing commercial for consoles June 9th launch

http://youtu.be/JYxYvQ8ieq4

Or they are just going to keep that little secret locked up until release.

Yeah but that would only hurt their possible success. It'd be good to remove VR in June

Skwor · May 2015

I have to laugh every time I see a post like this on VR. Anyone who thinks ZEN is gonna remove VR and not put some other progression in place that will still require a comparable investment of time to achieve the same level of progression is just plain silly.

Sure VR may go away but the required investment of time to achieve progression will not, so keep asking for this "change in name only" change, I would bet real money it is not going to give what most think it will.

Face it the investment in time is not going away to progress, but sure have your non-change-change, i do not care what they call the progression system.