Spell Erosion CP

Jakx · May 2015

Is it working again or is it broken still?

Jakx · May 2015

Hate to double post. Basically I saw some tests people did even after Spell Erosion was patched that said it still didnt work. Is there any info on this being fixed yet?

Jaxsun · May 2015

I don't know if we have an official response from @ZOS but part of the community thinks it's still broke. In particualr that it only works for the first point, anything after doesn't...but I don't know that for sure.

Jakx · May 2015

Yea thats what I saw but I wasnt sure if that applied to pre-patch or post-patch.

Jaxsun · May 2015

Jakx wrote: »

Yea thats what I saw but I wasnt sure if that applied to pre-patch or post-patch.

It's post-patch for sure.

Jakx · May 2015

Maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno could ask the developers responsible.

Gorthax · May 2015

the only way to get anything fixed around here is to convince everyone to stop playing. Sad but true. Right @zos

Jakx · May 2015

indeed, i hate how i have to continually ask if something basic works. yet to get the answer on this. Glad we dont really have the tools either to figure this out

nastuug · May 2015

Jakx wrote: »

indeed, i hate how i have to continually ask if something basic works. yet to get the answer on this. Glad we dont really have the tools either to figure this out

There have been various threads that pop up weekly regarding this and other passives of similar nature still being borked.

Cinbri · May 2015

Don't know working it or not on players, but when i putted points into this one by one, damage dealt to mobs increased for each point
EDIT: If anyone dc/ad on euro wanna test it pvp for numbers, contact me in-game. I can reinvest my points.

Valymer · May 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Don't know working it or not on players, but when i putted points into this one by one, damage dealt to mobs increased for each point.

By how much per point, though? It has always increased damage as far as I know, but after the first point the payoff was not worth it.

Cinbri · May 2015

Valymer wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Don't know working it or not on players, but when i putted points into this one by one, damage dealt to mobs increased for each point.

By how much per point, though? It has always increased damage as far as I know, but after the first point the payoff was not worth it.

Need to test on players with high spellresist, coz mobs has just a little of it, so numbers of addition damage dealt to them is just laughable (2-3 damage for point).

Valymer · May 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Don't know working it or not on players, but when i putted points into this one by one, damage dealt to mobs increased for each point.

By how much per point, though? It has always increased damage as far as I know, but after the first point the payoff was not worth it.

Need to test on players with high spellresist, coz mobs has just a little of it, so numbers of addition damage dealt to them is just laughable (2-3 damage for point).

Yeah, you're right. Let me just duel me friend to see if...ah hell. Nevermind.

Jakx · May 2015

lol jk

let me know how your tests go

cschwingeb14_ESO · May 2015

Adding points to this passive increases magicka, which a affects magicka damage and can skew results if you're not careful to account for it.

Focus rating gains on the start sheet are heavily skewed by this champ passive and can't really be trusted

Jakx · May 2015

@evedgebah did you ever do any further testing with this after the patch?

Merlin13KAGL · May 2015

Definitively still broken. Worth 1 CP and 1 CP only.

Vaerth · May 2015

If ZoS does not respond, then yes it is broken.

Jakx · May 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Definitively still broken. Worth 1 CP and 1 CP only.

I feared this

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Tag to remind myself to run some pvp tests against myself tonight at very off peak on live.

Sylvyr · May 2015

So just to be totally clear, if you put more than 1 point into it, it ain't worth crap?

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Sylvyr wrote: »

So just to be totally clear, if you put more than 1 point into it, it ain't worth crap?

Citation needed.

Jakx · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sylvyr wrote: »

So just to be totally clear, if you put more than 1 point into it, it ain't worth crap?

Citation needed.

You test yet?

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Jakx wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sylvyr wrote: »

So just to be totally clear, if you put more than 1 point into it, it ain't worth crap?

Citation needed.

You test yet?

Planning on testing early in the morning....

.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2015

@Attorneyatlawl , any definitive results? I'm equally uncertain Elemental Expert is working accordingly. Problem is, so many variables change even when fighting the same type of creature.

Would be nice if they would provide a better way, since they apparently don't QA as they should, themselves.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl , any definitive results? I'm equally uncertain Elemental Expert is working accordingly. Problem is, so many variables change even when fighting the same type of creature.

Would be nice if they would provide a better way, since they apparently don't QA as they should, themselves.

@Merlin13KAGL, I performed an initial chunk of testing yesterday and can absolutely confirm that Spell Erosion is working properly after spending around 42k gold checking various combinations of champion points and ensuring the magicka gains from the points were accounted for before realizing I could have saved some gold if I'd simply gone about the allocations differently as I went

. In the process I came across the explanation for an oddity I've seen since patch v1.6 onward when doing various tests, but I'll touch on that one some other time as it seems to be a newer mechanic I've never even heard mentioned by another player

.

I don't have data formatted in a nice way yet across various abilities, but I'll post up a results set + explanation soon (probably this afternoon). It appears to, from my initial checks, be additive against your enemy's mitigation percentage (when it is converted from the numerical value), but I haven't confirmed this completely yet

. In other words, assuming the broader testing bears out what I'm seeing initially, if someone has 35% mitigation and I have 10% spell erosion, it seems to be that they would have a 25% mitigation against me with that being the only change for the attacker and defender (the same kind of way that the Impenetrable trait on armor worked for enemies and their chance to be critically hit prior to the more recent changes). Before this becomes spread around as confirmed, for anyone reading, it isn't but likely will be soon(tm) enough.

I'll do some quick (and less thorough) checks of Elemental Expert while I'm at it, but I haven't heard much of anything regarding it having issues (doesn't mean it has none, of course as we all know, which is why I'll check

). I can't say I exactly enjoy ensuring things are even working as described and intended versus normal theorycrafting, but a lot of mechanics in this game haven't exactly been bug-free over ESO's lifetime as we all know, so it's a necessary evil

.

Navaya · May 2015

I guess once they release a dueling system we will notice that most passives doesn't work. But I guess we will have to wait another year to get dueling, even though like 90% of all MMORPGs are released with it form the start.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Navaya wrote: »

I guess once they release a dueling system we will notice that most passives doesn't work. But I guess we will have to wait another year to get dueling, even though like 90% of all MMORPGs are released with it form the start.

That would simplify getting this kind of testing done, to say the least. I have a handful of secluded locations I test at in Cyrodiil for these topics, but getting two to three characters there to them (each one on a different account) without getting noticed or interrupted for any extended period (and verifying these tests takes a lot of time between documentation, recording, tweaking, and ensuring what the testing variable is has not been impacted by any number of various other bugs, issues, game mechanics, passives, or random occurrences like losing a keep bonus changing the spellpower/weaponpower of the characters involved) is not always easy.

Many of the times it would be easier, are basically wildly off-peak while sometimes it ends up being fairly populated in the campaigns on a given night then as well and 4am isn't a good time to be heading out to attempt hour(s) of testing that in some cases needs to be re-done if an external factor changes like the aforementioned keep bonuses.. It's 180 degrees away from convenient, either

, and if I accidentally kill one of the two main characters I'm testing with, it's back to square one, along with any interruptions during a leg of the testing needing to be re-done whether it was from my having done that or a random enemy player stumbling across me.

Sacadon · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl , any definitive results? I'm equally uncertain Elemental Expert is working accordingly. Problem is, so many variables change even when fighting the same type of creature.

Would be nice if they would provide a better way, since they apparently don't QA as they should, themselves.

@Merlin13KAGL, I performed an initial chunk of testing yesterday and can absolutely confirm that Spell Erosion is working properly after spending around 42k gold checking various combinations of champion points and ensuring the magicka gains from the points were accounted for before realizing I could have saved some gold if I'd simply gone about the allocations differently as I went . In the process I came across the explanation for an oddity I've seen since patch v1.6 onward when doing various tests, but I'll touch on that one some other time as it seems to be a newer mechanic I've never even heard mentioned by another player .

I don't have data formatted in a nice way yet across various abilities, but I'll post up a results set + explanation soon (probably this afternoon). It appears to, from my initial checks, be additive against your enemy's mitigation percentage (when it is converted from the numerical value), but I haven't confirmed this completely yet . In other words, assuming the broader testing bears out what I'm seeing initially, if someone has 35% mitigation and I have 10% spell erosion, it seems to be that they would have a 25% mitigation against me with that being the only change for the attacker and defender (the same kind of way that the Impenetrable trait on armor worked for enemies and their chance to be critically hit prior to the more recent changes). Before this becomes spread around as confirmed, for anyone reading, it isn't but likely will be soon(tm) enough.

I'll do some quick (and less thorough) checks of Elemental Expert while I'm at it, but I haven't heard much of anything regarding it having issues (doesn't mean it has none, of course as we all know, which is why I'll check ). I can't say I exactly enjoy ensuring things are even working as described and intended versus normal theorycrafting, but a lot of mechanics in this game haven't exactly been bug-free over ESO's lifetime as we all know, so it's a necessary evil .

Awesome, thanks for doing this. What I've been wanting to do is see where the crossover is between Thaumaturge and Spell Erosion is in terms of point investment strategies. Given the various build approaches, lots of conditions will have to apply in order to do thi, but it would still be good to know (generally) when to stop investing in one and start investing in the other to maximize performance.

BTW, I think the CP-Spell Shield is broken. I did some cursory checks with a Sorc on PTS and it does not provide any non-elemental damage mitigation. The elemental reduction one does work.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl , any definitive results? I'm equally uncertain Elemental Expert is working accordingly. Problem is, so many variables change even when fighting the same type of creature.

Would be nice if they would provide a better way, since they apparently don't QA as they should, themselves.

@Merlin13KAGL, I performed an initial chunk of testing yesterday and can absolutely confirm that Spell Erosion is working properly after spending around 42k gold checking various combinations of champion points and ensuring the magicka gains from the points were accounted for before realizing I could have saved some gold if I'd simply gone about the allocations differently as I went . In the process I came across the explanation for an oddity I've seen since patch v1.6 onward when doing various tests, but I'll touch on that one some other time as it seems to be a newer mechanic I've never even heard mentioned by another player .

I don't have data formatted in a nice way yet across various abilities, but I'll post up a results set + explanation soon (probably this afternoon). It appears to, from my initial checks, be additive against your enemy's mitigation percentage (when it is converted from the numerical value), but I haven't confirmed this completely yet . In other words, assuming the broader testing bears out what I'm seeing initially, if someone has 35% mitigation and I have 10% spell erosion, it seems to be that they would have a 25% mitigation against me with that being the only change for the attacker and defender (the same kind of way that the Impenetrable trait on armor worked for enemies and their chance to be critically hit prior to the more recent changes). Before this becomes spread around as confirmed, for anyone reading, it isn't but likely will be soon(tm) enough.

I'll do some quick (and less thorough) checks of Elemental Expert while I'm at it, but I haven't heard much of anything regarding it having issues (doesn't mean it has none, of course as we all know, which is why I'll check ). I can't say I exactly enjoy ensuring things are even working as described and intended versus normal theorycrafting, but a lot of mechanics in this game haven't exactly been bug-free over ESO's lifetime as we all know, so it's a necessary evil .

@Attorneyatlawl , thankyou. I figure with Elemental, I have to place 30 points in the constellation somewhere in there for the crit bonus passive, and EleX seems the most ideal for a DPS, as far as bang for your buck is concerned. (I did the testing incrementally, trying to save $. 3k is cheap, but not when you spec it a dozen times in a row

)

It would be nice if the appropriate tooltips went up, where applicable. The behind the scenes adjustments they do for so many things makes it that much harder to see the results. I did checks with EleX using Destro Skills (Crushing Shock), LA/HA, and Class Skills (Liquid) and honestly didn't see notable difference.

Again, that's not against a PC, so the baseline isn't exactly as consistent as it could be.

Appreciate the time, the testing, and the gold to do so. I know you've posted a lot of detail on various things on the forums. Anything we can kick you in-game to help?

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl , any definitive results? I'm equally uncertain Elemental Expert is working accordingly. Problem is, so many variables change even when fighting the same type of creature.

Would be nice if they would provide a better way, since they apparently don't QA as they should, themselves.

@Merlin13KAGL, I performed an initial chunk of testing yesterday and can absolutely confirm that Spell Erosion is working properly after spending around 42k gold checking various combinations of champion points and ensuring the magicka gains from the points were accounted for before realizing I could have saved some gold if I'd simply gone about the allocations differently as I went . In the process I came across the explanation for an oddity I've seen since patch v1.6 onward when doing various tests, but I'll touch on that one some other time as it seems to be a newer mechanic I've never even heard mentioned by another player .

I don't have data formatted in a nice way yet across various abilities, but I'll post up a results set + explanation soon (probably this afternoon). It appears to, from my initial checks, be additive against your enemy's mitigation percentage (when it is converted from the numerical value), but I haven't confirmed this completely yet . In other words, assuming the broader testing bears out what I'm seeing initially, if someone has 35% mitigation and I have 10% spell erosion, it seems to be that they would have a 25% mitigation against me with that being the only change for the attacker and defender (the same kind of way that the Impenetrable trait on armor worked for enemies and their chance to be critically hit prior to the more recent changes). Before this becomes spread around as confirmed, for anyone reading, it isn't but likely will be soon(tm) enough.

I'll do some quick (and less thorough) checks of Elemental Expert while I'm at it, but I haven't heard much of anything regarding it having issues (doesn't mean it has none, of course as we all know, which is why I'll check ). I can't say I exactly enjoy ensuring things are even working as described and intended versus normal theorycrafting, but a lot of mechanics in this game haven't exactly been bug-free over ESO's lifetime as we all know, so it's a necessary evil .

@Attorneyatlawl , thankyou. I figure with Elemental, I have to place 30 points in the constellation somewhere in there for the crit bonus passive, and EleX seems the most ideal for a DPS, as far as bang for your buck is concerned. (I did the testing incrementally, trying to save $. 3k is cheap, but not when you spec it a dozen times in a row )

It would be nice if the appropriate tooltips went up, where applicable. The behind the scenes adjustments they do for so many things makes it that much harder to see the results. I did checks with EleX using Destro Skills (Crushing Shock), LA/HA, and Class Skills (Liquid) and honestly didn't see notable difference.

Again, that's not against a PC, so the baseline isn't exactly as consistent as it could be.

Appreciate the time, the testing, and the gold to do so. I know you've posted a lot of detail on various things on the forums. Anything we can kick you in-game to help?

That is absolutely fantastic of you to offer

. I'm fairly well off in-game, though, so while I won't ask for you to follow through on the sentiment, I very much appreciate it nonetheless!