In the last ESO live they said that they will be balancing races before they add in race changes. That probably means they are going to nerf them into the ground and make them pretty much generic and "fair" like GW2 races in order to make people like the OP happy.

since this is a hot topic, lets try to sort out the racials,

just for the sake of the thread,
lets decide that there are three levels of bonuses, major, minor and fluff.
lets decide that a flat increase of a single stat by 10% or more, or two stats by 6% or more, or regeneration by 20% or more is defined as major bonus.
lets decide that a flat increase of a stat by 3% or lower is defined as fluff**.
everything between fluff and major bonus is minor bonus.
lets decide that if the bonus is not permanent but requires some condition in order to proc is one rank below its stat increase.

with these rules lets sort the racials top to bottom.

[2 majors +fluff]
Imperial: fluff(10% chance to restore ~6% HP on melee attack), major (10% stamina), major (12% health)
Orc: fluff (6% damage but only on charge attacks), major (30% hp regen), major ( 6% max health AND 6% max stamina)

[1 major + 2 minors]
Altmer: minor(4% damage increase to frost + fire +lightning), major(10% magica), minor(9% magica recovery)
Khajiit: minor (6% to crit), minor (10% damage, but condition on stealth), major (30% HP regen)

[1 major, 1 minor, 1 fluff]
Bosmer: minor (10% damage, but condition on stealth), fluff (3% stamina) , major (21% stamina regen)
Breton: fluff (3% spell cost), minor (spell resistance*) major (10% magica)
Redguard: fluff (around 5% stamina regen on melee attack, with 3sec CD), major( 10% stamina), minor (9% stamina regen)
Dunmer: minor (7% fire damage), fluff (3% magica) , major (6% max magica AND stamina)
Nord: minor (6% damage resistance), fluff (3% health), major (30% hp regen)

[1 minor + 2 fluffs]
Argonian: minor (6% healing received), fluff (3% health) , fluff (6% all stat regen on pots )


we can see that although Breton racials are not the best ones, they are not the worst but on the same level as at least half of the races

*3000 spell resistance is slightly under 10% of the cap of 32500.
** single resistances like poison resistance or cold resistance are fluff, swimming speed+ running speed = also fluff

djyrb wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for posting those numbers, it's a splash of cold water in the face for me, with 3 VR14 Breton characters. I liked to try out healing with all classes, so their cost reduction racial, albeit minor even before 1.6, was seen as an advantage for resource sustain, which is critical for a healer.

I always knew that Altmer would make the better DPS sorc, but I figured Breton would be able to have a smoother transition between roles, yet still be a viable magicka DPS.

However, in light of that stealth nerf, would you say that the Altmer combat recovery bonus > Breton cost reduction for a healer as well?

It depends on your existing Regen. In my case it works out to 211 magicka regen and will eventually be worth 224 Magicka regen.

Since the global cooldown on spells is exactly 1 second based upon my existing regen of 211 it works out to exactly 105.5 Cost reduction in the absolute best possible situation for cost reduction. Even in the best case scenario that I outlined above the Breton Racial saves you 81 magicka a cast.

The reality is practically no one is playing under that best case scenario and you're almost never casting spells continuously every 1 second for long. This means that the 9% Magicka regen is actually far better than the Breton racial any way you look at it, I'd say by a factor of 2-3 or more if I had to estimate use-case scenarios.

Ezareth wrote: »

djyrb wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for posting those numbers, it's a splash of cold water in the face for me, with 3 VR14 Breton characters. I liked to try out healing with all classes, so their cost reduction racial, albeit minor even before 1.6, was seen as an advantage for resource sustain, which is critical for a healer.

I always knew that Altmer would make the better DPS sorc, but I figured Breton would be able to have a smoother transition between roles, yet still be a viable magicka DPS.

However, in light of that stealth nerf, would you say that the Altmer combat recovery bonus > Breton cost reduction for a healer as well?

It depends on your existing Regen. In my case it works out to 211 magicka regen and will eventually be worth 224 Magicka regen.

Since the global cooldown on spells is exactly 1 second based upon my existing regen of 211 it works out to exactly 105.5 Cost reduction in the absolute best possible situation for cost reduction. Even in the best case scenario that I outlined above the Breton Racial saves you 81 magicka a cast.

The reality is practically no one is playing under that best case scenario and you're almost never casting spells continuously every 1 second for long. This means that the 9% Magicka regen is actually far better than the Breton racial any way you look at it, I'd say by a factor of 2-3 or more if I had to estimate use-case scenarios.

Cost reduction has the advantage of making each point of your resource "worth more", which means you in turn get more out of magicka regeneration and restoration effects.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

djyrb wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for posting those numbers, it's a splash of cold water in the face for me, with 3 VR14 Breton characters. I liked to try out healing with all classes, so their cost reduction racial, albeit minor even before 1.6, was seen as an advantage for resource sustain, which is critical for a healer.

I always knew that Altmer would make the better DPS sorc, but I figured Breton would be able to have a smoother transition between roles, yet still be a viable magicka DPS.

However, in light of that stealth nerf, would you say that the Altmer combat recovery bonus > Breton cost reduction for a healer as well?

It depends on your existing Regen. In my case it works out to 211 magicka regen and will eventually be worth 224 Magicka regen.

Since the global cooldown on spells is exactly 1 second based upon my existing regen of 211 it works out to exactly 105.5 Cost reduction in the absolute best possible situation for cost reduction. Even in the best case scenario that I outlined above the Breton Racial saves you 81 magicka a cast.

The reality is practically no one is playing under that best case scenario and you're almost never casting spells continuously every 1 second for long. This means that the 9% Magicka regen is actually far better than the Breton racial any way you look at it, I'd say by a factor of 2-3 or more if I had to estimate use-case scenarios.

Cost reduction has the advantage of making each point of your resource "worth more", which means you in turn get more out of magicka regeneration and restoration effects.

With a macro view that is true, however this is a simple comparison between two possibilities.

You could be reducing your spells from 181 to 100 magicka and it wouldn't matter. 211 extra Magicka regen is still better in any possible scenario. Math doesn't lie.

Dragnelus wrote: »

Make a petition. Breton passive 20% reduced skill reduction. I wouldnt mind ^^

Yes, this in on par with other racial passive, sigh...

SilverWF wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also, cost reduction is super powerful now and you are sorely underestimating it, especially since skill costs got jacked up immensely.

I suggest you stop complaining now as everybody in this thread has proven you wrong in your idea that Breton equates to being bad.

I agree, cost reduction can be seen as dubble regen. You save magicka when you cast it and its also saved because you dont need to regenerate it. Regeneration only gives magicka back so if you cast a lot of spells in a short time the actual benefit is very little (only a couple regen ticks). Cost reduction is always active and because its percentage based you save a lot of magicka for spells that cost a lot which further increases the value.

Septimus Mezar - VR14 Altmer Sorcerer

Okaaaaaay

Altmer is probably the best race for magicka builds but Breton isnt as terrible as the OP suggest.
The cost reduction of 3% is a bit low, bringing it to 5% would make it on par with other passives like the 10% magicka regen from Altmer (I have stated this before). But cost reduction itself is very useful, even spell resist is good if you use a couple nirnhoned pieces.

Crying about passives useful passives isnt going to change them, its probably wiser to use your time to grind some CP and restore the balance to your benefit.

p.s. Ive played my Altmer sorc since early access and I use a lot of cost reduction (+-38% on my pvp set), but yeah cost reduction is worthless..

They should have just made it where races get a bonus to exp when lvling certain skill lines. So you have it where races have a more natural affinity with certain skills, but with enough practice eventually all races could master those aspects they choose to specialize in.

Like think about it, Shalidor was one of the most powerful mages of his time, but who would pick a nord wanting to be a mage-like character.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Altmer is probably the best race for magicka builds but Breton isnt as terrible as the OP suggest.
The cost reduction of 3% is a bit low,

And I'm said about it already in my 1st post - did you read it?

Ezareth wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

djyrb wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for posting those numbers, it's a splash of cold water in the face for me, with 3 VR14 Breton characters. I liked to try out healing with all classes, so their cost reduction racial, albeit minor even before 1.6, was seen as an advantage for resource sustain, which is critical for a healer.

I always knew that Altmer would make the better DPS sorc, but I figured Breton would be able to have a smoother transition between roles, yet still be a viable magicka DPS.

However, in light of that stealth nerf, would you say that the Altmer combat recovery bonus > Breton cost reduction for a healer as well?

It depends on your existing Regen. In my case it works out to 211 magicka regen and will eventually be worth 224 Magicka regen.

Since the global cooldown on spells is exactly 1 second based upon my existing regen of 211 it works out to exactly 105.5 Cost reduction in the absolute best possible situation for cost reduction. Even in the best case scenario that I outlined above the Breton Racial saves you 81 magicka a cast.

The reality is practically no one is playing under that best case scenario and you're almost never casting spells continuously every 1 second for long. This means that the 9% Magicka regen is actually far better than the Breton racial any way you look at it, I'd say by a factor of 2-3 or more if I had to estimate use-case scenarios.

Cost reduction has the advantage of making each point of your resource "worth more", which means you in turn get more out of magicka regeneration and restoration effects.

With a macro view that is true, however this is a simple comparison between two possibilities.

You could be reducing your spells from 181 to 100 magicka and it wouldn't matter. 211 extra Magicka regen is still better in any possible scenario. Math doesn't lie.

In your example, a 45% cost reduction (181 > 100) means all your resource restore (including regeneration) is 45% more effective compared to not having it. That's huge and will definitely overtake 211 extra resource every 2 seconds very quickly.

Regen is better for short fights while cost reduction is more beneficial in longer fights and/or if you are capable of restoring a lot of resources (Warlock, Engine Guardian, potion CD glyphs, Repentance, etc.).

To judge Cost Reduction vs Magicka Regen, you might take an approach similar to "Time To Live" calculations, normally used to value damage mitigation vs health stacking.