What happened to Vet Crypt of Hearts today?!

baratron · April 2015

So, I was one of the people who moaned on the PTS Forum in February about how utterly impossible Veteran Dungeons were. Since then, the difficulty of Vet Dungeons has been tweaked and a lot of the "impossible" dungeons are now completable even with a pick-up group, as long as at least two of the party are experienced and can explain the boss mechanics in detail to the others. Which is the way it should be, in my opinion. I've learned a lot about doing Veteran Dungeons and picked up Achievements which I thought I was never going to get. In particular, I've run Veteran Crypt of Hearts a whole bunch of times over the past couple of weeks, always at v12. And done the final boss in hard mode on more than one occasion.

Which is why I was absolutely shocked today when my group failed over and over, within the first 30 seconds, of the fight with Nerien'eth today.

I thought something was wrong when we kept dying to Mezeluth. She's the penultimate boss, who has the mechanic where you need to spread your party out around the circle as far apart as possible (e.g. North, South, East, West). She pulls you into the middle, puts an AoE circle on you, and you have to quickly roll-dodge back to your original position. If your AoE circle crosses another on the ground, you survive, but if it crosses that of another player, you both die. We've all become familiar with this mechanic over the past few weeks, but today 2 or 3 of us were dying in the centre, because the explosion was happening immediately with no time at all to roll out. After several wipes, our tank managed to keep at least one DPS rezzed for long enough to finish the boss.

Then we went to face Nerien'eth, and at this point I was certain that the dungeon difficulty had ramped up way beyond usual. We're all used to the mechanic whereby the boss lifts his staff into the air to cast Necrotic Swarm. This is an attack where you are hit by little green skulls which do a lot of damage if you're not blocking. Normally he casts this attack to hit random members of the party, with no individual getting hit more than 3 times in a row. Today, he was casting it six times in a row and hitting all four of us at once.

There was literally nothing that I, as the Healer, could do. I started with freshly-fixed armour (go, Crown Repair Kits!), was running both Bound Aegis and Hardened Ward (usually I only need Bound Aegis), using v5 crafted potions of Restore Health/Restore Magicka/Unstoppable and running Quick Siphon and Structured Entropy on the boss and blocking while casting my usual healing spells. And I couldn't even keep myself alive. By the fifth skull of the six-skull attack, I was dead. Despite blocking! Despite shields! Despite a healing potion trickling HP back! Despite Entropy and my healing spells trickling HP back!

Seriously, this is not right.

My suspicion is that something went wrong with the scaling of this dungeon in today's patch. Maybe it got reverted to an older version, before the recent difficulty tweak? We were running Crypt of Hearts because it was today's Veteran Pledge, and we didn't have the time to check other Veteran Dungeons.

Please can you look into this, because my friends and I had been very much enjoying doing Veteran Pledges and sometimes getting the Gold Keys, and we do not need the Veteran Dungeons to go back to being "impossible". Thanks.

Alcast · April 2015

That the blast goes off after the Boss pulls you sounds indeed very fishy

Sometimes bosses Desync and *** like that happens.

ON Nerienth however, it is normal that the boss casts those aoe fields on ALL the partymembers. Dont block them, RUN out of them, block wont help you there. If you stay in the red AoE while it explodes you will certainly face death.

Sacher_LB · April 2015

I ran CoH two times last night, one for pledge and one for farming. The first one was not bugged and it went smoothly. However, the second one when we were trying to kill Mezeluth, the circles kept going off the moment she pulled us in, and we died in the middle of the pull animation, not even given a chance to dodge out of aoes. I don't run CoH very often, but ran it enough to know that boss fight was a little different than the ones I did before.

sebban · April 2015

I ran CoH 5 times on Saturday and didn't experience any of these issues. I might be server lag or rare bugs, I don't know. We did experience some serverlag from time to time though.

We also had some new "special tactics" for Mezeluth. Just kill her! With 2 DK dps with standard of might, we killed the boss in ~10 seconds, so it didn't have to time pull us in.

If you are unable to kill the boss before she pulls you in, here is a tip for you: Have one person (the tank) stay in the middle when you are pulled in, while the 3 others roll out. That way the 3 ppl rolling out will have more room.

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

baratron · April 2015

Sacher_LB wrote: »

However, the second one when we were trying to kill Mezeluth, the circles kept going off the moment she pulled us in, and we died in the middle of the pull animation, not even given a chance to dodge out of aoes. I don't run CoH very often, but ran it enough to know that boss fight was a little different than the ones I did before.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to us. It was just... weird.

What are you supposed to do if a boss in a dungeon bugs like that? Relog, one by one? Break up the group to restart the entire instance? Something in between? That's what I want to know, the official guidance for how to fix a broken boss

.

sebban wrote: »

We also had some new "special tactics" for Mezeluth. Just kill her! With 2 DK dps with standard of might, we killed the boss in ~10 seconds, so it didn't have to time pull us in.

If you are unable to kill the boss before she pulls you in, here is a tip for you: Have one person (the tank) stay in the middle when you are pulled in, while the 3 others roll out. That way the 3 ppl rolling out will have more room.

Sadly we don't have any Dragonknight DPSes, let alone two of them. But we'll try having the tank stay in the middle to see if that helps.

F7sus4 · April 2015

L2P.
Do the fight with 2 characters only.
Veteran Dungeons were never as easy as they are now.
Period.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

I'm sad that they have been dumbed down like this. It's not enough that you can scale it to vet 1 if you had to; now people get vet 12 rewards with little effort. I hope this doesn't become the norm for the game.

baratron · April 2015

Those of you who are going "learn to play" are not understanding the issue. Look at the title - "What happened to Vet Crypt of Hearts today?"

I ran Veteran Crypt of Hearts at v12 level at least four times between 9th and 17th April. I knew exactly how it should go. Then, last Thursday, 17th April, the dungeon glitched up and became very much harder than usual. @Sacher_LB above reports the same issue.

I always run dungeons with the same Tank, and it wasn't just us two noticing it - after we'd wiped too many times on Nerien'eth I pulled in an elite DPS who had already run the dungeon twice that day, and he said that something was wrong.

My initial post was alarm that perhaps something had changed in the difficulty scaling because of the 2.0.5 patch on Thursday 17th. Since then it seems more and more likely that actually it was just a glitch. We ran the dungeon last night and it was entirely normal.

The question I am asking now is what you are supposed to do when an instance glitches?

F7sus4 · April 2015

Those L2P-people just finished this dungeon today several times for farming item sets and didn't notice any issues you're describing in here.

ZOS_Seiffer · April 2015

sebban wrote: »

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

Thanks for pointing this out Sebban. This is a bug and is currently being addressed. While you are being levitated by Mezeluth's Fulminating Void, you should not take damage from any of her Fire Runes that may be beneath you.

baratron wrote: »

Then we went to face Nerien'eth, and at this point I was certain that the dungeon difficulty had ramped up way beyond usual. We're all used to the mechanic whereby the boss lifts his staff into the air to cast Necrotic Swarm. This is an attack where you are hit by little green skulls which do a lot of damage if you're not blocking. Normally he casts this attack to hit random members of the party, with no individual getting hit more than 3 times in a row. Today, he was casting it six times in a row and hitting all four of us at once.

In regards to your concerns Baratron, Nerien'eth's Necrotic Swarm ability targets you and all of your group mates each time he begins the channel. His channel lasts 12 seconds and every 2 seconds, he sends out a swarm of skulls. So over the entire course of the ability, you should anticipate 6 waves of projectiles.

sebban · April 2015

Seiffer wrote: »

sebban wrote: »

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

Thanks for pointing this out Sebban. This is a bug and is currently being addressed. While you are being levitated by Mezeluth's Fulminating Void, you should not take damage from any of her Fire Runes that may be beneath you.

Thanks for clearing that up. When this works as intended it will be alot easier. I don't suppose there is any known ETA for this fix?

Lord Xanhorn · April 2015

This has been a 'bug' for a long time then. I have died from the fire from being sucked in from the very launch of this instance. Certainly was the case in 1.5 and still is in 1.6

Natjur · April 2015

Seiffer wrote: »

sebban wrote: »

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

Thanks for pointing this out Sebban. This is a bug and is currently being addressed. While you are being levitated by Mezeluth's Fulminating Void, you should not take damage from any of her Fire Runes that may be beneath you.

baratron wrote: »

I thought this was the reason everyone range fights this guy so no fire circles get spawned in the middle. If anyone melee's this boss = bad for the group.

And the last fight, everyone should be holding block for most of that fight.

baratron · April 2015

Natjur wrote: »

Seiffer wrote: »

sebban wrote: »

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

Thanks for pointing this out Sebban. This is a bug and is currently being addressed. While you are being levitated by Mezeluth's Fulminating Void, you should not take damage from any of her Fire Runes that may be beneath you.

baratron wrote: »

I thought this was the reason everyone range fights this guy so no fire circles get spawned in the middle. If anyone melee's this boss = bad for the group.

Yes, indeed. That's why the elite DPS types do the fight with only 2 players, so that they can be arranged in such a way as to never cross circles. Hmm.

Seiffer wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Then we went to face Nerien'eth, and at this point I was certain that the dungeon difficulty had ramped up way beyond usual. We're all used to the mechanic whereby the boss lifts his staff into the air to cast Necrotic Swarm. This is an attack where you are hit by little green skulls which do a lot of damage if you're not blocking. Normally he casts this attack to hit random members of the party, with no individual getting hit more than 3 times in a row. Today, he was casting it six times in a row and hitting all four of us at once.

In regards to your concerns Baratron, Nerien'eth's Necrotic Swarm ability targets you and all of your group mates each time he begins the channel. His channel lasts 12 seconds and every 2 seconds, he sends out a swarm of skulls. So over the entire course of the ability, you should anticipate 6 waves of projectiles.

It turns out that I was conflating two different attacks (probably because I was so stressed out). There's the attack that sends multiple waves of small skulls to all party members, which it is possible to heal through; and then the attack which sends a single big skull to each of three party members, which you absolutely have to block. Or dodge, since if you're far enough away, you can roll-dodge it.

Well, on Thursday when the dungeon glitched, the multiple waves of small skulls attack was hitting as hard as the single big skull attack. One small skull was enough to one-shot a player with 18k HP.

But yes, what should players do when an instance glitches?

Valymer · April 2015

baratron wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

Seiffer wrote: »

sebban wrote: »

Also, if the fire circles spawn around the boss on the platform, make sure you position yourself so there are no fires between you and the boss. Don't want to die from fire while hanging in the air.

Thanks for pointing this out Sebban. This is a bug and is currently being addressed. While you are being levitated by Mezeluth's Fulminating Void, you should not take damage from any of her Fire Runes that may be beneath you.

baratron wrote: »

I thought this was the reason everyone range fights this guy so no fire circles get spawned in the middle. If anyone melee's this boss = bad for the group.

Yes, indeed. That's why the elite DPS types do the fight with only 2 players, so that they can be arranged in such a way as to never cross circles. Hmm.

Seiffer wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Then we went to face Nerien'eth, and at this point I was certain that the dungeon difficulty had ramped up way beyond usual. We're all used to the mechanic whereby the boss lifts his staff into the air to cast Necrotic Swarm. This is an attack where you are hit by little green skulls which do a lot of damage if you're not blocking. Normally he casts this attack to hit random members of the party, with no individual getting hit more than 3 times in a row. Today, he was casting it six times in a row and hitting all four of us at once.

In regards to your concerns Baratron, Nerien'eth's Necrotic Swarm ability targets you and all of your group mates each time he begins the channel. His channel lasts 12 seconds and every 2 seconds, he sends out a swarm of skulls. So over the entire course of the ability, you should anticipate 6 waves of projectiles.

It turns out that I was conflating two different attacks (probably because I was so stressed out). There's the attack that sends multiple waves of small skulls to all party members, which it is possible to heal through; and then the attack which sends a single big skull to each of three party members, which you absolutely have to block. Or dodge, since if you're far enough away, you can roll-dodge it.

Well, on Thursday when the dungeon glitched, the multiple waves of small skulls attack was hitting as hard as the single big skull attack. One small skull was enough to one-shot a player with 18k HP.

But yes, what should players do when an instance glitches?

There is sadly nothing you can do except give up and/or reset the instance and try again from the beginning.

In AA last night the Mage refused to come down from her platform even though all the adds were dead. We tried wiping the raid to reset it but to no avail. So basically just one hour wasted (including raid setup).

Welcome to ESO! Hope you enjoy your stay in this buggy mess.

sebban · April 2015

Natjur wrote: »

I thought this was the reason everyone range fights this guy so no fire circles get spawned in the middle. If anyone melee's this boss = bad for the group.

baratron wrote: »

Yes, indeed. That's why the elite DPS types do the fight with only 2 players, so that they can be arranged in such a way as to never cross circles. Hmm.

The problem is that since 1.6 (I think) the boss will sometimes drop fire circles in the middle even if there is no one there. So even if everyone goes ranged, there will still sometimes randomly be fire circles in the middle. Might be another bug.

ZOS_Seiffer · April 2015

baratron wrote: »

There's the attack that sends multiple waves of small skulls to all party members, which it is possible to heal through; and then the attack which sends a single big skull to each of three party members, which you absolutely have to block. Or dodge, since if you're far enough away, you can roll-dodge it.

Nerien'eth's Necrotic Blast ability, which is the single big skull you are referring to, targets one random player and he fires a single projectile at that player. Nerien'eth should not fire three big skull projectiles at the same time. If this is what you are seeing then that is a bug we will investigate.

baratron wrote: »

Well, on Thursday when the dungeon glitched, the multiple waves of small skulls attack was hitting as hard as the single big skull attack. One small skull was enough to one-shot a player with 18k HP.

So one possible explanation for what you were seeing is that during Nerien'eth's Necrotic Swarm ability, there are actually three different sources of damage. The small skull projectiles are one source. There are two additional sources which originate from the telegraph circles that appear near you. Standing in the telegraph circle does damage to you over time. After a few seconds, there is an area of effect explosion and that also does damage. Currently all of these damage sources appear on your death recap as "Necrotic Swarm".

The big issue is each of these damage sources varies in output, so it can be confusing to see "Necrotic Swarm" in three different spots on your death recap with different damage amounts. In order to clear up the confusion, the display names for the damage over time and the area of effect explosion will be updated.

sebban wrote: »

The problem is that since 1.6 (I think) the boss will sometimes drop fire circles in the middle even if there is no one there. So even if everyone goes ranged, there will still sometimes randomly be fire circles in the middle. Might be another bug.

This issue is being looked into. Currently Mezeluth can target summoned pets with her fire runes. This is being updated so that her fire runes only spawn underneath players. Mezeluth will have to enjoy the smell of roasted clannfear somewhere else!

sebban · April 2015

Seiffer wrote: »

sebban wrote: »

The problem is that since 1.6 (I think) the boss will sometimes drop fire circles in the middle even if there is no one there. So even if everyone goes ranged, there will still sometimes randomly be fire circles in the middle. Might be another bug.

This issue is being looked into. Currently Mezeluth can target summoned pets with her fire runes. This is being updated so that her fire runes only spawn underneath players. Mezeluth will have to enjoy the smell of roasted clannfear somewhere else!

Make sure she can't target herself while you are at it

Content designer for the Dungeon team, eh? You might just be my new favourite person at ZOS

I love the dungeons, it's my favourite content in ESO. Hope to see more dungeons soon *hint*hint*nudge*nudge*

Jaerlach · April 2015

Seiffer wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

There's the attack that sends multiple waves of small skulls to all party members, which it is possible to heal through; and then the attack which sends a single big skull to each of three party members, which you absolutely have to block. Or dodge, since if you're far enough away, you can roll-dodge it.

Nerien'eth's Necrotic Blast ability, which is the single big skull you are referring to, targets one random player and he fires a single projectile at that player. Nerien'eth should not fire three big skull projectiles at the same time. If this is what you are seeing then that is a bug we will investigate.

baratron wrote: »

Well, on Thursday when the dungeon glitched, the multiple waves of small skulls attack was hitting as hard as the single big skull attack. One small skull was enough to one-shot a player with 18k HP.

So one possible explanation for what you were seeing is that during Nerien'eth's Necrotic Swarm ability, there are actually three different sources of damage. The small skull projectiles are one source. There are two additional sources which originate from the telegraph circles that appear near you. Standing in the telegraph circle does damage to you over time. After a few seconds, there is an area of effect explosion and that also does damage. Currently all of these damage sources appear on your death recap as "Necrotic Swarm".

The big issue is each of these damage sources varies in output, so it can be confusing to see "Necrotic Swarm" in three different spots on your death recap with different damage amounts. In order to clear up the confusion, the display names for the damage over time and the area of effect explosion will be updated.

sebban wrote: »

The problem is that since 1.6 (I think) the boss will sometimes drop fire circles in the middle even if there is no one there. So even if everyone goes ranged, there will still sometimes randomly be fire circles in the middle. Might be another bug.

This issue is being looked into. Currently Mezeluth can target summoned pets with her fire runes. This is being updated so that her fire runes only spawn underneath players. Mezeluth will have to enjoy the smell of roasted clannfear somewhere else!

Her fireballs are famous for targetting ground target aoe effects. For example, if there is a lightning flood or dk banner on her she will often place a fire rune at her feet.

This is the issue, not pets. anything with a ground effect is a huge no no on mezeluth right now, even meteor.

Magdalina · April 2015

sebban wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

I thought this was the reason everyone range fights this guy so no fire circles get spawned in the middle. If anyone melee's this boss = bad for the group.

baratron wrote: »

Yes, indeed. That's why the elite DPS types do the fight with only 2 players, so that they can be arranged in such a way as to never cross circles. Hmm.

The problem is that since 1.6 (I think) the boss will sometimes drop fire circles in the middle even if there is no one there. So even if everyone goes ranged, there will still sometimes randomly be fire circles in the middle. Might be another bug.

She does seem to be doing this since 1.6 or so. I actually thought it might've been intended? I just circle around so there's no fire between me and her for the pull though.

If it's triggered by ground effects though, my Liquid Lightning could set it off. Hmm. Gotta check that.

Hey, it can always be worse though. There's STILL the bug they claimed to be fixed in 1.4 or so, where Nerien'eth randomly becomes invisible after porting and all you can do is wipe since you can't target him anymore ^_^

ZOS_Seiffer · April 2015

Jaerlach wrote: »

Her fireballs are famous for targetting ground target aoe effects. For example, if there is a lightning flood or dk banner on her she will often place a fire rune at her feet.

This is the issue, not pets. anything with a ground effect is a huge no no on mezeluth right now, even meteor.

Hello Jaerlach. We have you covered on that issue as well. The fix will make sure Mezeluth only targets players and nothing else with her fire runes. Feel free to dust off those dk banners!