Need numbers on Champion System

shane.roberts25b14_ESO · April 2015

I'm calculating some different end-game build stat values, but I've run in to a snag. Because the points put in to the champion system give diminishing returns, I have no way of knowing what maxed out values would be without knowing the equation first... Does anyone know what the percentage increase on, say, heavy or medium armor expertise, piercing, mighty, etc is at maxed 100 points?

Celless · April 2015

According to the PTS:
Most of the abilities cap around 25% such as all the Mage ones, regeneration, spell resist, and most damage type reduction.
Armor foci should cap around 13%.
Stamina / magicka cost reduction: 15.8%

shane.roberts25b14_ESO · April 2015

hmm... so it varies by buff... this is gonna make calculating a bit more difficult... but then, I'm not surprised. Seems like ZOS goes out of their way to make theorycrafting builds nigh on impossible. Honestly, why are stats like penetration, elemental resistance, etc not on our character sheets? Why do traits like divines give different % increases based on how many pieces you are wearing/ what mundus you pick (I've discussed this in an earlier post http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162477/divines-trait-isnt-calculating-properly#latest)? And, if Celless is accurate, why are 100 points in damage reduction worth more than 100 points in stamina cost reduction, or 100 points in Medium Armor Expertise?

Jaxsun · April 2015

Celless wrote: »

According to the PTS:
Most of the abilities cap around 25% such as all the Mage ones, regeneration, spell resist, and most damage type reduction.
Armor foci should cap around 13%.
Stamina / magicka cost reduction: 15.8%

Do you have numbers for any of the other stuff and/or a link to such info?

Pancake-Tragedy · April 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

Celless wrote: »

According to the PTS:
Most of the abilities cap around 25% such as all the Mage ones, regeneration, spell resist, and most damage type reduction.
Armor foci should cap around 13%.
Stamina / magicka cost reduction: 15.8%

Do you have numbers for any of the other stuff and/or a link to such info?

PTS

Faugaun · April 2015

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

Sacadon · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

Who did the testing on each and every one of these? Or are they just calculated formulas based on spot testing?
Other than it being wise to be cautious about trusting in such things, I've no reason to distrust the results of the tool. So it would be helpful to understand more about who did the testing, what ESO version etc...

Edit: I do get a sense for some of this from the change log. Just curious to know the wizard behind the curtain.

Faugaun · April 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

Who did the testing on each and every one of these? Or are they just calculated formulas based on spot testing?
Other than it being wise to be cautious about trusting in such things, I've no reason to distrust the results of the tool. So it would be helpful to understand more about who did the testing, what ESO version etc...

Edit: I do get a sense for some of this from the change log. Just curious to know the wizard behind the curtain.

@Sacadon

I did, my qualifications involve 1/3 of my M.S. degree being in graduate level statistical analysis.

Faugaun · April 2015

You can scroll down for the version updates, originally I derived it from formulas at 1.6.1 when 70 cp was on the pts, then they put 3600 cp on the pts. My derived from lower numbers was 99.6% accurate. The 3600 cp was used in complete from all data points for all stars to derive new formulas and the new ones are 99.96% accurate. I check them every Monday with patches to check for inaccuracies. If you find any please send feedback in the contact box and I will look into it.

Sacadon · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

You can scroll down for the version updates, originally I derived it from formulas at 1.6.1 when 70 cp was on the pts, then they put 3600 cp on the pts. My derived from lower numbers was 99.6% accurate. The 3600 cp was used in complete from all data points for all stars to derive new formulas and the new ones are 99.96% accurate. I check them every Monday with patches to check for inaccuracies. If you find any please send feedback in the contact box and I will look into it.

Awesome and thanks.

Faugaun · April 2015

NP and if you find it useful please share, also I am always trying to think of more useful calculators to add, so if you have any ideas please let me know.

Sacadon · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

NP and if you find it useful please share, also I am always trying to think of more useful calculators to add, so if you have any ideas please let me know.

What I've found to be very interesting is how the CP allocation affects character performance, it's not 1-for-1. In other words, if I've no CPs allocated and I put a single point in Elf Born, my spell damage goes up even if I don't crit. There are other damage related examples like this and I don't know if there similar behaviors on the other constellations. So there is still quite a bit of mystery to me behind how each one correlates in tandem with point allocation increases vs. how they scale in isolation. I'm not sure it would be feasible for us to figure all this out unless we had a lot of people contributing because there are just so many testing possibilities, but you did ask

.

Jaxsun · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

Awesome, thank you!!

Faugaun · April 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

NP and if you find it useful please share, also I am always trying to think of more useful calculators to add, so if you have any ideas please let me know.

What I've found to be very interesting is how the CP allocation affects character performance, it's not 1-for-1. In other words, if I've no CPs allocated and I put a single point in Elf Born, my spell damage goes up even if I don't crit. There are other damage related examples like this and I don't know if there similar behaviors on the other constellations. So there is still quite a bit of mystery to me behind how each one correlates in tandem with point allocation increases vs. how they scale in isolation. I'm not sure it would be feasible for us to figure all this out unless we had a lot of people contributing because there are just so many testing possibilities, but you did ask .

@Sacadon OK that's eady, each thief point adds stamina to your base pool, each mage point adds magicka and each warrior point adds health. Stamina and magicka pools increase your damage. This is capped at 1000 points in each of the three colors green, blue, red....so the last 600 cp you get do not produce this effect.these three calculators model that system:

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

They are linked to from the index page

@Jaxsun Yw, please share with others who might like it.

Sacadon · April 2015

I knew the points increased resource pools, but didn't know the 1000 cap. The damage increased seemed higher than what makes sense for pool increase. But this is coming from memory at the moment so I'm going to trust and hope the pools are the cause vs something else.

Have you tested all of the passive a yet?

Faugaun · April 2015

@Sacadon That was actually the observation that lead to all the other calculators and I derived the equations for that from about 30 data points that @Bouvin Collected later when 3600 cp build were on pts @Soulac Found that my formula didn't work at 3600 cp and that's when we found the 1000 point cap in that effect. So it took 3 of us about a week and 30 wish data points to work it all out.

The original thread that started all of this can be found here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150690/champion-system-comprehensive-chart-for-pve#latest

So you can see the original data. Once it was derived it has been easy to track and modify as zos changes things and take me about an hour a week to check and update for changes.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

You, my friend, are a lifesaver! Thank you for this. Will make this so much easier!

Jaxsun · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

NP and if you find it useful please share, also I am always trying to think of more useful calculators to add, so if you have any ideas please let me know.

What I've found to be very interesting is how the CP allocation affects character performance, it's not 1-for-1. In other words, if I've no CPs allocated and I put a single point in Elf Born, my spell damage goes up even if I don't crit. There are other damage related examples like this and I don't know if there similar behaviors on the other constellations. So there is still quite a bit of mystery to me behind how each one correlates in tandem with point allocation increases vs. how they scale in isolation. I'm not sure it would be feasible for us to figure all this out unless we had a lot of people contributing because there are just so many testing possibilities, but you did ask .

@Sacadon OK that's eady, each thief point adds stamina to your base pool, each mage point adds magicka and each warrior point adds health. Stamina and magicka pools increase your damage. This is capped at 1000 points in each of the three colors green, blue, red....so the last 600 cp you get do not produce this effect.these three calculators model that system:

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-stamina-calculator-tower-tree-champion/
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-health-calculator-lord-tree-champion/
http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/elder-scrolls-online-magicka-calculator-apprentice-tree-champion/

They are linked to from the index page

@Jaxsun Yw, please share with others who might like it.

Will do!!!

Faugaun · April 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

I knew the points increased resource pools, but didn't know the 1000 cap. The damage increased seemed higher than what makes sense for pool increase. But this is coming from memory at the moment so I'm going to trust and hope the pools are the cause vs something else.

Have you tested all of the passive a yet?

I do not test if they work as advertised, that is a whole different thing...I know some were not working and zos has fixed some/all??? Of that in the past few incremental patches, but that is just from reading the forums. If you find the calculators to be off certainly let me know and I will look into the numbers....I am good at deriving formulas but do not enjoy collecting the data. So if you include data that is even more helpful as long as you clearly explain how you collected the data.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

You, my friend, are a lifesaver! Thank you for this. Will make this so much easier!

Yw, and glad you find it useful I saw people needing help (I most rp these days, but used to min max in older games) and derived the formulas....and it was just easier to make and update calculators than to try to explain my formulas.

Some additional resources you may want to look at:

A guide I wrote - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162375/guide-a-how-to-for-determine-the-ideal-use-of-champion-points-for-your-build#latest

My official support thread for the champion system calculators - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150927/updated-2-0-5-champion-point-passives-calculators#latest

@Soulac 's build planner (I'm not sure if he still supports it though) - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150788/1-6-build-planner-version-1-52/p1

Soulac · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

I knew the points increased resource pools, but didn't know the 1000 cap. The damage increased seemed higher than what makes sense for pool increase. But this is coming from memory at the moment so I'm going to trust and hope the pools are the cause vs something else.

Have you tested all of the passive a yet?

I do not test if they work as advertised, that is a whole different thing...I know some were not working and zos has fixed some/all??? Of that in the past few incremental patches, but that is just from reading the forums. If you find the calculators to be off certainly let me know and I will look into the numbers....I am good at deriving formulas but do not enjoy collecting the data. So if you include data that is even more helpful as long as you clearly explain how you collected the data.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@shane.roberts25b14_ESO http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Made for just that purpose enjoy and please tell your friends or heck repost on your Facebook wall or link in your guild website.

You, my friend, are a lifesaver! Thank you for this. Will make this so much easier!

Yw, and glad you find it useful I saw people needing help (I most rp these days, but used to min max in older games) and derived the formulas....and it was just easier to make and update calculators than to try to explain my formulas.

Some additional resources you may want to look at:

A guide I wrote - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162375/guide-a-how-to-for-determine-the-ideal-use-of-champion-points-for-your-build#latest

My official support thread for the champion system calculators - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150927/updated-2-0-5-champion-point-passives-calculators#latest

@Soulac 's build planner (I'm not sure if he still supports it though) - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150788/1-6-build-planner-version-1-52/p1

Still working on it, but currently nothing worth to upload.

Faugaun · April 2015

Good to hear buddy

hadn't heard from ya in a bit and the posts on your thread were a bit old so wasn't sure!

Maidenname · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

@Sacadon That was actually the observation that lead to all the other calculators and I derived the equations for that from about 30 data points that @Bouvin Collected later when 3600 cp build were on pts @Soulac Found that my formula didn't work at 3600 cp and that's when we found the 1000 point cap in that effect. So it took 3 of us about a week and 30 wish data points to work it all out.

The original thread that started all of this can be found here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150690/champion-system-comprehensive-chart-for-pve#latest

So you can see the original data. Once it was derived it has been easy to track and modify as zos changes things and take me about an hour a week to check and update for changes.

Thank you! Thank you! That is so awesome...lots of work there! I tried doing the number crunching on live, some do not add up, not sure if it is bugged or not. I made some testing with another player and removed armors to test the raw data, so far not impressed with the numbers like splitting points or shifting points one sided to Elfborn or Blessed. They don't produced the numbers consistently ... But having the knowledge of the capping, it helps very much not to over invest in a specific tree in the long run. Good job!

Sacadon · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

I knew the points increased resource pools, but didn't know the 1000 cap. The damage increased seemed higher than what makes sense for pool increase. But this is coming from memory at the moment so I'm going to trust and hope the pools are the cause vs something else.

Have you tested all of the passive a yet?

I do not test if they work as advertised, that is a whole different thing...I know some were not working and zos has fixed some/all??? Of that in the past few incremental patches, but that is just from reading the forums. If you find the calculators to be off certainly let me know and I will look into the numbers....I am good at deriving formulas but do not enjoy collecting the data. So if you include data that is even more helpful as long as you clearly explain how you collected the data.

Got it. Usually my testing is more one-off to figure something out vs. all encompassing as that's all I've time for with full-time work, family etc... But if I run across something unexpected, I'll most certainly share it.

Soulac · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Good to hear buddy hadn't heard from ya in a bit and the posts on your thread were a bit old so wasn't sure!

Recently updated some formulas including Stamina Reg, but need some more tests before I upload anything.
Except that, the calculator still works great :P

Faugaun · April 2015

@Maidenname You are most welcome.

@Sacadon Thanks, I am always trying to find new ways to help with my skill so more eyeballs helps a ton.

@Soulac