Bring back the lol button.

Your goal, not mine. So is it P2W. No it isn't.

Achievement points are meaningless. If you enjoy getting them that is great, but buying motifs in the crown store doesn't let you "win" anything except the looks pretty contest....

Tabbycat wrote: »

Meh, it's a cosmetic thing.

Now, if you could buy the motifs in the crown store and sell them to other players for in game gold, that would be a different story.

But you are selling the styles to other players for in game gold...

Or are they restricted to the player only like being able to transform gear into Imperial gear, which makes it Bound?

Because if it doesn't make anything made w/ that store-bought motif bound to the creator, then you are doing exactly that: using real money to make more gold in-game than you would have if you had not bought motifs from the Crown store.

Quintal wrote: »

Motifs are just cosmetic. They don't give you any potential strength or bonuses.

XP Potions on the other hand are Pay 2 Win. Because you get champion points for XPs and essentially it's potion for quicker acquisition of CPs - thus making it P2W item.

Sadly there are still people who think otherwise

It depends on your definition of "winning", I suppose.

For you, making your character stronger is "winning".

For others, making your character RICHER is "winning".

These help to do the latter. I don't see it as any different than the xp potions.

Lol.

Oliviander wrote: »

I will not discuss wether it is a good or bad thing to have the motifs in the crown store.

But as long as you get 50 Achievementpoints for knowing all rare motifs it
is definitely "Pay to Win" and not just a Convenience or Cosmetic subject. Period

And even if you wouldn't get these points, I think learning all the motifs was
and still is a goal for many players, and more than often I guess without the intention to
ever craft any piece of armor in any style.
(for me it was one of my first goals I pursued in the game).

And If you can buy a goal of the game It is "Pay to Win"

or you could simply try zone chat or a guild store and pay a lot less in game gold for said items that never drop ?

Morrawind wrote: »

Everything you can buy without playing for it takes away one goal or reason to play.

Game over. You lose!

In what way? Nobody makes you buy anything instead of searching the world for the motifs. Motifs are simply a style and in no way affect anyone's ability to "win" Why do you care what someone else does with their money or their time?

I can jump on the guild store right now and buy every crafting motif in the game. Its just a cosmetic item. Like Ive said before pay to win means it gives you some kind of distinct advantage you cannot get in the game. Since you can find these motifs in the game and they can be traded then its not pay to win. All of these cash shops sell time savers. This saves you the time having to go around and hunt down the motifs.

Might as well get used to it this is only the tip of the iceberg.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I can jump on the guild store right now and buy every crafting motif in the game. Its just a cosmetic item. Like Ive said before pay to win means it gives you some kind of distinct advantage you cannot get in the game. Since you can find these motifs in the game and they can be traded then its not pay to win. All of these cash shops sell time savers. This saves you the time having to go around and hunt down the motifs.

Might as well get used to it this is only the tip of the iceberg.

You keep saying this "distinct advantage that you cannot get in the game". But that's obviously not the case.

If they were to sell Emperor bonuses, that's 100% attainable in the game. That's still P2W.

They can sell the top Hard Mode Trials gear in the store, completely circumventing the only true PvE competition that exists. But hey, it's in the game. But it's still P2W.

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I can jump on the guild store right now and buy every crafting motif in the game. Its just a cosmetic item. Like Ive said before pay to win means it gives you some kind of distinct advantage you cannot get in the game. Since you can find these motifs in the game and they can be traded then its not pay to win. All of these cash shops sell time savers. This saves you the time having to go around and hunt down the motifs.

Might as well get used to it this is only the tip of the iceberg.

You keep saying this "distinct advantage that you cannot get in the game". But that's obviously not the case.

If they were to sell Emperor bonuses, that's 100% attainable in the game. That's still P2W.

They can sell the top Hard Mode Trials gear in the store, completely circumventing the only true PvE competition that exists. But hey, it's in the game. But it's still P2W.

You are kinda stretching here. Emporer is not simply cosmetic. I havent ever been emporer but dont you get a skill line? Gear also gives you a distinct advantage and is absolutely nothing like having a cosmetic option to craft gear which looks a certain way. Cosmetics dont help you win anything. If in the game these bound on acquire I could understand. In my guild's bank there is most likely all the blues in there free for the asking.

If you want to play the game for free this is the kind of thing you have to deal with. In exchange for not having to pay a sub a small amount of people will pay big money for this and finance the game for the rest of us. The definition tho of pay to win is that they sell superior stuff on the store that helps you either kill people or kill mobs. Motifs do neither. While you might not like it and think its a greedy money grab its not pay to win.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol ok you win. A motif is the same exact thing as selling end game gear.

Well, selling 50% faster CP wasn't P2W.

Selling motif collections for crafters to sell more things in game for gold isn't P2W.

Selling Emperor isn't P2W.

What IS P2W?

Coming from playing a game that truly WAS p2w, I have to disagree with the OP on this. If anything, this is a 'pay for a nonessential perk', pretty much in line with paying $25 for the new leopard mount. Yes, having the motifs can potentially make you some money in the game, but it's far from a genuine p2w option.

When you can go into the Crown Store and purchase the best gear for PvP or PvE, or anything else essential for top-tier encounters that ensures success and the best loot, that's a legitimate concern for p2w strategies.

"Pay to Win" is probably the most over-used, whiny term used on MMO forums.

That said, I'm not going to argue whether this is or is not "P2W". It's just a really *** move on ZOS's part, and I sincerely hate it.

Some players don't care about this sort of thing - after all, it is a cosmetic item at the end of the day. However, this is tied directly to crafting, and making it significantly easier for anyone to craft all of those different gear motifs does have an effect on the economy - players who could craft both the trait and rare style you want for your gear set are in high demand, and while most of the challenge to getting that capability as a crafter is tied to research, it was a barrier that was perfectly fine as it was in game before this.

I'm not sure how bad of an effect this will have in the long run, and I hope it doesn't lead to an escalation of ZOS taking items from in-game, effectively nerfing some component of it, and then choosing to sell it to players for cash instead of actual gameplay. There was a dev post on the German forums earlier this week where the idea was floated around about the possibility of selling Werewolf and Vampire bites on the Crown Store - THAT is what I don't want to see. Don't gut your game to find ways to sell core mechanics or skill lines for cash, ZOS. Develop entirely new, fully cosmetic and/or convenience items and ADD them to the game instead. This comes across as both a bit lazy and greedy, and it honestly does frighten me to think about where it could go in coming months.