Is 3,600 Champion Points too much of a grind?

david.haypreub18_ESO · April 2015

I thought VR ranks were a bit of a grind... now I find that the Champion Point system is far more soul-destroying than VR ever was.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with a game that rewards time and effort. Players who have put more time into the game should be able to gain advantages for all that effort. But 3600 point is just too much: it is a deterrent to anyone thinking of buying or playing the game to think that they will have to grind for literally years to get anywhere close to the more experienced players. At least with VR, the grind eventually ended; with CP, it virtually never will.

But maybe I am in the minority. What do you think?

Latter · April 2015

Well, yes its a lot of xp and will take a long time but its not supposed to be something you grind towards nonstop untill you're there. It's a progression system, if you try to grind from 0 to 3600 you're not going to have a good time.

Nifty2g · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

its meant to be a progression, its not too much gives us playability

desciviib14_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

With the diminishing returns of it, there's still something to be gained for those that go for all of them but if you decide you're not pushing for all of them it wont be a huge loss though people who do go for all of them still have something to show for the effort and of course whether you're trying or not you'll still technically be earning them anyway.

kevlarto_ESO · April 2015

I doubt that will I ever reach 3600, because I just play the game and get them as I go, if I am playing five years from now maybe..LOL

Beesting · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

It is just nice to get an cp point every hour or so when pvp-ing or doing dsa

When i put them in and see i only get 0.2 % increase in certain things like spell resist i am still happier than getting nothing like when i was vr14 maxed out for months

So good job zenimax, i don't grind though, i only do things i enjoy

Saltypretzels · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Champion points should not even be put into the same sentence as grind. If you are grinding for them you will quickly quit unless you have a constitution and willpower of steel. They should be considered a bonus you get for simply playing the game. Wish people could wrap their brains around that.

gard · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Just have fun playing. The CP will take care of themselves.

Stamden · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

People who think there's a problem with the champion system need to stop looking at it as a grind. No, your not meant to get to CP max rank 3600 within a few months. You'll burn yourself out and you'll wonder why your not having any fun in the game.

My suggestion: Play the game like you normally would and act like CP doesn't exist.

Sacadon · April 2015

Your poll implies that a grind or focus on reaching 3600 is either required or necessary to be competitive with end-game content. While having 3600 CPs certainly makes you significantly more powerful than someone with 100, it's not required.

Maxing out champion points is not end-game, level 50 is (or will be). We're in a rough spot right now in terms of game balancing. Big step 1 was 1.6, now we are waiting for the console storm to pass, next big step 2 is removing veteran ranks. I expect that after console there will also be adjustments to Champion system as it's flawed in many ways that most are not yet aware. And of course the performance design flaws with large PvP battles still exist with no real sense for resolution.

Personally, I do want to get to 3600 CPs as insanely fast as possible. I'm competitive like that. I also know that I would have to take a hiatus from work and go on a red bull cleanse to catchup to others that have 200-300 points because of the intentional ceiling on the pace at which you can level.

You just don't unravel 3 years of game design flaws in 1 year while simultaneously releasing a product on two new platforms. No amount of money can accelerate that.

If you're the type that cannot enjoy a game till everything is maxed, I recommend you come back in about 1-2 years when all this may be sorted out.

Potenza · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Just to add - last I read, at the moment the total CP points is capped at 322.

Bookwyrm · April 2015

Latter wrote: »

Well, yes its a lot of xp and will take a long time but its not supposed to be something you grind towards nonstop untill you're there. It's a progression system, if you try to grind from 0 to 3600 you're not going to have a good time.

This.

It's supposed to be a way of rewarding you for continuing to play your character after max level--a way of giving you progression without it being tied to gear. It's not meant to be a "grind-to-the-top" mechanic. Of course, there will always be those doing exactly that, but that doesn't mean we should nerf them for the rest of the population. I like the concept as is, right now.

Darklord_Tiberius · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

It is a very well done system. This system was implemented to give people YEARS of playablity, not instant gratification. If you are looking for the second thing, maybe go find your mom?

Kupoking · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

its not meant to be a grind

nathan_bri · April 2015

If your mindset is "MUST GRIND TO 3600 ASAP," then yes. If not--if you treat them as a sane individual might, where they are a natural byproduct of normal gameplay--then no.

nimander99 · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

I wish it was 7,200.

david.haypreub18_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

My question for those of you arguing that the best thing to do is just not think about it as a grind is this: do you think many new players will be able to do that? Do you not think that some will just look at the system, do some quick math to realize that they have virtually no hope of ever catching the people far ahead of them, and just decide to quit the game because they will never be able to catch up because they will never be on an equal playing field?

McGordon · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

Ups! Wrong button. Its not too much of a grind!
1. Its a reason to play eso for a long time
2. Why do you need all points for one character?

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2015

You are supposed to earn 1 champion point per day. They designed the system specifically so that it will take 10 years for someone playing a little bit each day.

Do players like having to look 3 years into the future before they will actually be able to do such and such with their points? No. It's too much. Replace it with Spellcrafting.

Haqikah · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

dumb poll; it isn't meant as a grind, but a way to keep your characters progressing in the long run. Only for min/max ultra competitive players the champion system can be viewed as a mandatory grind. For most people the minor buffs should matter much much less than game knowledge and personal skill.

david.haypreub18_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

Haqikah wrote: »

dumb poll; it isn't meant as a grind, but a way to keep your characters progressing in the long run. Only for min/max ultra competitive players the champion system can be viewed as a mandatory grind. For most people the minor buffs should matter much much less than game knowledge and personal skill.

I'm not really sure the buffs are that minor.

I'm only into the 90s but I've already gotten +12% critical rating and other significant buffs which can make a big difference on the battlefield. I shudder to think what the difference will be between a player with 1,000 points and one with none.

Dagoth_Rac · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

I thought it was going to be a grind when I first started, but it is not too bad. 90 is the important threshold. Use that to get the 12% bonus damage/healing crit percentage and it is pretty much all gravy after that. For us, it was less than a month to 90. For new players, it is only 3 months. There does not seem to be any endgame PvE that absolutely requires a ton of CP. As for PvP, if this was 1v1 PvP game, it could be a problem. But an AvA game? Some of the players in your faction will have lots of CP, some not. Same for the other faction. There are other imbalances in PvP that are worse (population, lag, etc.).

zeuseason · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

Too much but maybe ZOS will offer 100-pt giveaway weekends or something.

skarvika · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

It's a double edged sword really. On one hand, I really prefer the champion system over vet ranks. On the other, most PVPers are going to try to grind out all champion points as fast as possible, especially for skills like Mighty, which increase the damages of all weapon attacks and anyone that wants to keep up is going to have to go the same route or get demolished by people with crazy amounts of regen and armor bonuses. 3600 will be a nightmare grind. I've still only got around 50.

Haqikah · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I'm not really sure the buffs are that minor.

I'm only into the 90s but I've already gotten +12% critical rating and other significant buffs which can make a big difference on the battlefield. I shudder to think what the difference will be between a player with 1,000 points and one with none.

It depends what we are comparing: are we comparing two experienced players or a newb VR1 to an experienced VR14?
For PvE the competition part of the game should be between more or less equally experienced players.
The PvP is at the moment primarily a group activity, so both sides will have a mix players of various CP-level.

After some point the benefit of champion points to become quite small due to the diminishing returns, which should make sure that after a base-level of playing players are competitive. Unfortunately I have no clue where this point is.

Personofsecrets · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

lol at 68% of people.

neueregel · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

I am almost there at 132 CPs... Why play a game if you just want 0-x in seconds... part of playing is having something to play for. Not instant maxed player/gratification. You dont need to be maxed to play.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

It's just fine to reward my play over the next four years.

djnapstyb14_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

i dont think its meant to be ground through tho. Its designed to give you long term goals

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

As others have said, its a long time goal.

Its character progression hehe.

Huggernaut · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I thought VR ranks were a bit of a grind... now I find that the Champion Point system is far more soul-destroying than VR ever was.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with a game that rewards time and effort. Players who have put more time into the game should be able to gain advantages for all that effort. But 3600 point is just too much: it is a deterrent to anyone thinking of buying or playing the game to think that they will have to grind for literally years to get anywhere close to the more experienced players. At least with VR, the grind eventually ended; with CP, it virtually never will.

But maybe I am in the minority. What do you think?

I have no idea how anyone has voted NO so far.

3600 pts at roughly 2 a day let's say, that's 1800 days, or 4.9 years. How the flip is that not too much grind?

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Is 3,600 Champion Points too much of a grind?

Is 3,600 Champion Points too much of a grind? 257 votes